Garmin going ahead with ADS-B

[Dick Smith]

I have just received the following notification from my Cessna contact.

Garmin just last week presented a session on ADS-B. There will be a transponder upgrade to provide the first step to ADS-B transmissions. They are calling the new transponder GTX33ES (ES = extended squitter) and it will transmit ADS-B at 1090 MHz. It will be a software upgrade to existing GTX33 transponders. The date for the software is scheduled for Dec 2007. To receive the 1090 MHz from other transponders additional equipment will be required. So it looks as if Garmin are going to 1090 Extended Squitter. I would imagine they will then provide some type of ADS-B ‘in’ readout in their Garmin 400, 500 and Garmin 1000 systems. It looks as if the way to go will be ADS-B 1090 Extended Squitter. I would imagine that this is the way most of the world will go.

Note that it can be modified with a software upgrade so I would imagine the price will be minimal – possibly a couple of hundred dollars. I have a new Citation Mustang on order, to be supplied early next year. I have already asked Cessna to supply it with the new GTX33 Extended Squitter transponder.

I will also push Garmin to design the ADS-B ‘in’. With Garmin equipment, once again it should only be a software mod, so other aircraft with ADS-B 1090ES will appear on the Garmin screen. This means that pilots buying Garmin equipment will basically get ADS-B extended squitter ‘in’ and ‘out’ for nothing.

It will be interesting to see if Europe still continues with the Swedish VDL Mode 4 system.

[Chris Higgins]

Dick,

Any idea of mass production dates, fully finished and final retail pricing?

I think this may be a good thing to also run through ICAO and try and get a consensus, so the whole world can get on the same page with this stuff, not just Australia, Garmin or Cessna.

[Dick Smith]

Chris, your ideas sound good but I don’t believe it will ever happen. Getting consensus at ICAO would be like getting consensus at the United Nations. It is just not possible because every country has its own vested interest.

For example, it is obvious that in Europe they are making VDL Mode 4 systems and their representatives at ICAO will push to have Europe continuing with a system that will support their own manufacturing industry. Why wouldn’t they?

However if you look at the market place there is absolutely no doubt that in general aviation, Garmin basically controls the market. This is for no other reason than the market place has decided that the product is the best. I have heard that even the new Eclipse very light jet is changing to Garmin 1000 displays, and more and more new aircraft are changing to Garmin.

If any would-be aircraft purchaser finds out that he or she can purchase a VDL Mode 4 system at the cost of $20,000 or $30,000 extra, with an additional panel hole, but get the Garmin 109ES equipment included in the standard price, I know what they will decide.

I find that after having had a decade of experience with GPS equipment from Trimble through to Collins Proline 21, that Garmin is by far the best – not just in operational simplicity but also in such important things as servicing costs.

For example, I recently got a quote to fix my Rogerson Kratos LCD display in my Agusta A109E Power helicopter. It has a simple fault – as the LCD still works – however the quoted price is a minimum of US $15,000, with a maximum of US $29,000!

I checked with Garmin and found that their price to service the larger Garmin 1000 display is a fixed figure of US $1,200.

[Chris Higgins]

Dick,

Based on that argument, we need to make it clear that Australia needs to get behind a manufacturer like Garmin who can get the job done for us and not over burden the end user.

Again, not to sound repetitive; we need to get clear costs in mind for a conversion kit/retrofit program for the average homebuild or flight school that's updating from ol' Bendix/King.

For this to get any industry wide support it must be shown to work and it must be considered good value for money.

I think that many people here have considered some version of transponder/TCAS/ADS-B a necessity and that we can't just be counting on the naked eye as closure speeds for all aircraft become higher, including among the single engine homebuilds.

[J430]

Dick / Chris
Be one thing to push Garmin, but PLEASE.......there is an Aussie manufacturer right here in Australia, locally owned and made. Microair have the gear to go and are or were involved in the trials by ASA.
http://www.microair.com.au/

How about we suuport Aussie Made and Owned........I am sure Dick is behind that concept 100%

J:ok:

[WynSock]

A new jet? Nice.

How are you going to offset all those extra carbon emissions?

:E

I guess you could always get a Prius, like Brad Pitt...

[Dick Smith]

J430 You are right. It would be great to get units made here in Australia. I just hope that the Microair ADS-B ‘in’ unit can display on the standard Garmin 430/530 and 1000 displays.

This is incredibly important as the display is quite expensive, and as many aircraft already have a Garmin unit, many pilots will not want to spend additional money buying an extra display – even if it is a PDA.

I will contact Microair today and find out if their ADS-B ‘in’ unit can display on other companies’ equipment.

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

... competition of available equipment will make it very affordable .. for the government :} :E :p :ooh:
.
.... Hurray :D

[RFdev]

Hi Dick, Chris , others

New to the network and have a few comments on ADS-B which I have been involved in for nearly 10 years back when I owned Microair ( now not my company ) There are several ADS-B in systems available and also our own design which will work on 3 or 4 different displays currently available (Garmin,Honeywell, Grand rapids etc) as well as PDA displays and dedicated LCD types. Our receiver is an OEM product so it will be a plug in board OR stand alone chassis. This is also designed and made in Queensland. ADS-B out systems are not limited to Garmin, honeywell have had one out for 2 years or more and Filser have ADS-B/Mode A/C and S in 57mm as well as panel mount, their distributor here in Oz is www.avionicsaustraliasia.com (http://www.avionicsaustraliasia.com) They also have a handheld ADS-B out/mode A/C and S transponder - real interesting.

Gliding in Australia has adopted a "mini ADS-B " type of collision warning system called Flarm or OzFLARM. It works in a similiar fashion to ADS-B but on a 900 mhz frequency and shorter range. Over 300 units are in operation in Australia, 40 in New Zealand and 5,000 in Europe. Our ADS-B in receiver will also receive Flarm (option) thus enabling G.A aircraft to SEE glider traffic when in range, this is a world first for Australia and some groundbreaking technology which combines the 2 systems.

Hope this has been of some interest to others, please feel free to PM me if you have any questions on ADS-B or Flarm technology.

Nigel Andrews - RF Developments

[onthedials]

Although nothing specific about the specs of the GTX33ES appears to be available, Garmin's published information about the GTX 33 offers some clues.
The GTX 33 is a remote mount (not panel mount) unit. It needs another device (such as a Garmin GNS 480 or G1000 system) to control it; ie the current GTX 33 provides no means for the pilot to control it.
In the Mustang, this won't be a problem because the G1000 has an inbuilt user interface to do exactly that. And the GNS 480 also has inbuilt transponder control functions. As you would expect, the integration of this Mode S transponder with the G1000 and GNS 480 systems is very good, so, for example, the existing GTX 33 can currently send TIS traffic in the USA for display on the GNS 480's screen.
Isn't the GTX 33ES just a remote Mode S transponder with extended squitter? Does it help us address the navigational source requirements of CASA's recent NPRM?
GA operators will still need to address the TSO C145/146 source requirements and for most that will mean ditching TSO C129A GPS navigators in favour of TSO 145/146 units.
Even if "it looks as if Garmin are going to 1090 Extended Squitter", it does not seem to be an endorsement by Garmin for 1090ES at low levels. The Garmin UAT solution has been on its website for months.
Will the GTX33ES be a better 1090ES product than Honeywell's KT 73? Will it comply with DO-260A and not just DO-260? (I don't know). Can it be readily interfaced with TSO 145/146 GPS units other than G1000 or GNS 480?
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but there are only a handful of G1000's in the country and maybe more GNS 480s, but these are still far fewer, in fact trivial numbers, in relation to the number of currently GPS IFR equipped GA aircraft. The KTX33ES might be a good solution for Mustang owners, but exactly how is it any help for the rest of GA?

[J430]

Dick,
Any news from Microair?
J:ok:

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

RFdev .... good stuff :D

[Dick Smith]

J430, you ask if there is any news from Microair. No, I’ve left two messages and each time I have been told that Ian Mugan is in a meeting. I’ve asked for Ian Mugan or Phil Ainsworth to ring me but so far no luck. If anyone can help that would be great.

[Swingwing]

RFDev (couldn't tell from your post if you were still involved with the company)

- none of my beeswax really, but maybe someone with a bit of business (rather than technical) acumen can connect the dots here on behalf of Microair?

You /they might have the best ADS-B technology going around, but if a bloke who:

* founded the most successful retail electronics business in Australian history
* is a well known pilot and adventurer, and
* is a nationally recognised spokesman for "buy Australian"

has to leave two separate phone messages and still can't get a call back because people are "in meetings"

then the company needs some serious help from a competent business development manager.

Do yourselves a favour. Ring him back before he loses interest.

SW

[RFdev]

Hi SwingWing,

RF Developments has nothing to do whatsoever with Microair now even though I founded the company in 1995 and parted company with the new owners Jabiru 2 or more years ago. RF dev is an R&D business who in conjunction with Avionics Australasia have developed ADS-B in receivers and we sell ADS-B out as well. Also RF manufactures Ozflarm with is an anti collision system used by gliders here in Oz, N.Z and Europe.

If I can help the forum with questions relating to ADS-B in general please ask away, I have been involved in the R&D side of ADS-B now for 10 years.

Cheers

Nigel Andrews

[Dick Smith]

It is now 9 days since I left messages at Microair in relation to whether their ADS-B 'in' unit can display on a Garmin or other screen. Once again I left a message for Ian Mugan, who was again in a meeting. Phil Ainsworth was also unavailable.

[Dick Smith]

I have great news! After missing each other a number of times I finally spoke to Phil Ainsworth, the owner of Microair. It appears that the Microair ADS-B unit is being improved all the time. Phil says that the delay of 12 months or so will actually give advantages, and the unit they are presently working on should be able to be sold all around the world.

Most importantly, their ADS-B ‘in’ unit will have a facility so it can display on Garmin units.

It all sounds fantastic to me. I believe Australia can be a leader in the world in this, but we want to make sure that we are harmonising with what happens in the USA – as this is 90% of the market.

[gaunty]

And then there is this little British bewdy, USD$850-900, designed, yes, for anoraks but ATC professionals arwe finding it very useful in all manner of forms.

http://www.kinetic-avionics.co.uk/index.php

Sorry I cant download the excellent AW&ST article Mar 5 yet but it is reported there that the original concept came out of a desire to set things right after a collision between a R22 and a microlite at Elstree.

From that came the SBS-2 professional class ADS-B system that would allow a small airport like Elstree to have surveillance of air traffic in the area, This unit costs less than USD$30,000, with ten sold and more on order.

It may require ALL the aircaft in the airspce to carry a suitable transponder but that is IMHO a small price to pay for the huge benefits it would bring to the non radar environments arond Oz. The bonus of course is that the 10 pax and up RPT and charter would also be able to see them on their TCAS.

They have been making headway with Maastricht Eurocae working groups in making valuable contributions in standards setting for ADS-B, multilateration and transponders. as we speak.

Now does or can the Microair technology do the same, I 'spect so, the same way as did AWA with DME developed likewise to solve a unique airspace problem. :ok:

[CaptainMidnight]

Dick Smith saidIt all sounds fantastic to me. But didn't you make a fuss about this time last year saying ADS-B out would allow terrorists and others up to no good to spy on aircraft movements? “With ADS-B, it’s the opposite because all you need to track every aircraft is a small non-directional aerial, worth $5,” said Dick Smith.

On prior arrangement, Dick Smith will demonstrate a small ‘black box’ unit which detects ADS-B signals and shows the aircraft’s identification as well as its location with pinpoint accuracy. P.S. - I'm still trying to find a company who is selling the antenna for $5 -

[J430]

Seems my email to the inner sanctum might have worked hey Dick!:E :E

Hope it was a fruitful discussion.

I do hope it gets up and going for all concerned.

J:ok:

[Dick Smith]

CaptainMidnight, I actually said that the ADS-B being installed by Airservices Australia would allow aircraft to be tracked and would not be immune to ‘spoofing’ by terrorists.

I understand this is completely different to what the USA is planning. I believe it has been posted previously on this website that the FAA Administrator has said that any system they go ahead with will have a system to detect/prevent spoofing. This can be done with a form of multilateration where a signal must go into a number of ground stations at the same time and be 'timed'.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

No real news from me people but I am now using ADSB in as well as TCAS. They are both displayed on the same screen and I much prefer the ADSB given the amount of information I am able to glean from the specific contacts. My TCAS just gives me a number whereas the ADSB gives me names, speed, alt and trends. That and the range I get when I'm up high means I have very nice situational awareness, of the aircraft with these buggers fitted. All in all it's a whizbang little system and even though it's only grabbing the heavies it works a treat.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

HOORAY, tell us more of your experiences Whiskey. FACTS will far outway what some people "believe".

[CaptainMidnight]

CaptainMidnight, I actually said that the ADS-B being installed by Airservices Australia would allow aircraft to be tracked and would not be immune to ‘spoofing’ by terrorists.

I understand this is completely different to what the USA is planning. I believe it has been posted previously on this website that the FAA Administrator has said that any system they go ahead with will have a system to detect/prevent spoofing.And also posted previously on this website Airservices also has in place security measures to prevent spoofing, which presumably you are aware of hence not following up on your demo.

And as far as I am aware, current airborne ADS-B systems can be tracked by suitable receivers and software, hence the populatory of the Kinetic Aviation gear for flying clubs, flying schools etc. etc. I'm not aware of any plans by anyone to implement an encrypted ADS-B system that only ATSPs and other "authorised" agencies can decode. Such a system would prevent other aircraft from decoding the broadcast, which would defeat one of the main purposes.

I really don't know where you are trying to head with your knocking of the system currently being rolled out in Australia.

[Bob Murphie]

Airservices and Wide Area Augmentation System
Many may not have seen the excellent article written by Peter Wordsworth in relation to the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS) and why Airservices don't seem to be heading in the US direction.

It makes really interesting reading and can be seen here. http://mooney.org.au/files/GPS-the_WAAS_that_WAS_.pdf

[turbofanflyguy]

Dick,
You seem to be a man of quality research in persuit for your Mustang. Question for you...Does Garmin have an stc for there 530/430 retrofit installation on Part 25 category aircraft? I recently got shot down for the install at an aviaonics shop in CO for a WAAS enabled 530/430. They allow the non-waas 530/430 instal though.
Gregg