Being labelled crazy when coming to GA from Airline...

[difrips]

I recently have nade the decision to join NJ..
Nothing wrong with that I think. However my fellow pilots seem to think differently about it.

I have extensive airline experience on modern jetliners and I have command lined up after summer. This is done in an expat company in the gulf however, a place where I do not want to stay too long anymore.

So i choose Netjets over the likes of Easyjet, Ryanair and other LoCo operators.

why?

Lifestyle
Salary
Challenge
type of flying
Career opportunities

And although these reasons are pretty convincing when you compare them even with Gulf Airlines, people still declare me crazy on the spot!

Why?

Once in GA you ll never get out of it...
Small airplanes are for pouftas
Dont leave an A320 command behind for that....possible command that is
....


I really wonder why GA has such a low esteem in the aviation fraternity?

Is it just because people do not really know?
Jealous?



Anybody with the same sort of experience here....

[tonker]

check your pm's

[Fly me to the moon]

Difrips,
Don't worry, make your way ! I fly an Airbus 310 in Europe, and I'm doing the same choise ! I flew Falcons years ago and it was the most exciting/challenging/funny/rewarding job I ever had ! Not easy everyday, but nicer than driving my Bus !
I'd love to fly a 747...but not on long haul ! Nothing is perfect. I don't know if you previously flew biz jets, but you won't regret it. No matter the size, a plane is a plane and biz jets have great performances without the boring aspect of the big ones (Stairs, loaders, etc...) You will enjoy it.
I'm bored as you probably are by flying the same sectors, with the same schedule and the same pax...you never see !
Some of my friends left big jets for small ones...they won't come back !
My application runs for NJE... Hope to meet you there !;)

[unablereqnavperf]

I've also made the change and its the best decision I've made, I now enjoy flying again and have always got a smile on my dial. Sure there are the odd days when things don't go to plan but at least I have control of the situation and not waiting for tugs loaders or such frustrations! This after flying B747, L1011 A320 A340 and B737. The aircraft type doesn't matter its the conditions of employment that really make the differance.

[411A]

Years ago I left airline flying for a corporate position, as an aviation department manager.
I ran my own show and answered to the chairman of the board, no one else.
When one of the local managers mentioned that I was expected to fly seven days a week, I called the chairman, and presto...a week off.
For me and the airplane as it needed maintenance.
Good salary, a car and driver, nice accomodations paid for, 42 days annual leave...a good deal, all tax free.
The call of the big jet happened, of course, but it was nice while it lasted.

[cvfly]

I am making exactly the same decision..just want to smile again..:)

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Flew the 757/767/737s and last year grew very sad of not enjoying my flying anymore...
I am now with NJE andif there aren't perfect, there is at least two things it did for me.
- Brought back the pleasure to work/fly again
- I live in the Sun

Absolutely no regret whatsoever.

If you fancy it because you have lost your enthousiasm when you go to work, then go for it. Different job but in my view, so much more interesting.
if it just to get out of the sandpit then you might want to consider it carefully.

Best of luck and if you make the move, yes you are a fool :D but you won't be the only one :ok:

[difrips]

Thanks for all the replies guys...


Its good to see I am not the only fool around :}

I am amazed as well that so many guys found themselves in front of exactly the same decision and what is more, that so many people did it for exactly the same reason: walking away from the boredom and repetition so typical for the life of an airline pilot!

And as some know it here apparently as well, it is often a very difficult decision. Management positions, uogrades, nice airplanes ...etc are all very well known tricks airlines use to keep us there! Only very few people have the courage and the balls to brake loose from all that and leave. This is even more so if you go , as they call it, BACK to GA!!!!

As far as I am concerned, I am not going back but forwards...

I lost my intrest in flying for an airline, hopping from SID to ILS, flying for 10hrs back of the clock to than do a fully automated approach in CAVOK conditions because both pilots are too tired to say a word, closed cockpit doors, 14 cabin crew that where told by management to stay away from those vilain pilots, same routes, hot seats without any decision making authority anymore etc etc etc...

I really think NJE can give me back my initial enthousiasm in flying and honestly, going there I know that this will be goodbye to the heavy metal stuff for good but hey....It is such a relief!


CVFLY, you must be that famous one from the neighbours next door....Good on you mate. I wish you all the best and maybe well meet in LIS soon.

AMEX, so you see its not only to get out of the pit mate. Its a lifestyle decision in all its aspects. I could have gone to BA and easyjet as well. Easy even as fast track command on the A319. I am on the list with Cargolux and CX called me for a second interview as Europe based FO....But I choose for NJE....A very difficult decision at first but now I cant wait to start there...Like tons fell of my back at the glimps of a second....:ok:

Let them call me (us) fools......I am sure we all know better while they never will...

Once more, keep the replies coming as I am really interested to read them all...

[airmen]

I have started with a big european regional company and worked for them 6 years, changed for GA and I love it, that is you have a very challenging and versatile job, taking care of everything...and anyway smaller aircraft are a lot more nice to fly (at least for me). You meet alot of people all around the place.I had the same experience you have, coming from the line GA boys look at you strangely, yes but its very different from the line you know and you have to take care of everything (not a big deal) so they all think they are the best( they especially try to lower the salary I guess with some sort of excuse...) but with NJE you will not have this kind of problem (as long as you live in the good country).
Do not listen too much what other say, talk to your heart and do what he says to you:)

No problem

[potatowings]

I love GA. I worked for a small regional and then went GA. I got bored senseless going from A 2 B 2 A 2 B 2 A, sometimes I even went to C. I tink I do the whole alphabet in a month now. Fly some great pax, see some lovely places and I enjoy operating the machine.

I was recently told by a friend who upgraded to a 757 that I would always be viewed as a small plane pilot, I reminded him that I don't care. I enjoy my flying, command times in GA tend to be lower than the 12 or so years he's facing and with the latest NJE pilots deals, I think within a few years more airline boys will be looking at our inferior little niche for the lifestyle it can present if you go with a good company.

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that part of the reason I fly because I love the machines and the technology, and the technology on some of the modern aircraft, G550's, Falcons (Especially 7x), Challenger 300's etc... is years beyond even modern airliners, and that for me is a huge appeal.

[rotorknight]

Hi,
even though I am not hired by NJ yet I am looking forward to the prospect of being hired by them,and as you guys have all formulated so well,to get back the joy in flying that we all once had.
I myself have become a helicopter pilot 13 years ago because I at that time refused to pay for any typeratings in the fixed wing world,and I still hold on to that principle,but after counting waves on the North Sea for all those years with the same boredom mentioned buy you all I can't wait to enter an operation like NJ has.
So for my part I hope to join the enthusiastic group of aviators very soon

:ok:

[CL300]

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that part of the reason I fly because I love the machines and the technology, and the technology on some of the modern aircraft, G550's, Falcons (Especially 7x), Challenger 300's etc... is years beyond even modern airliners,

This is a wish ? Besides the EVS, and may be INAV ;ALL avionics all the avionics level and technology is well below airliners like the Airbus, and for a very simple reason; for every falcon sold you sell 30 Airbus technology; therefore the manufacturers do not take time and money to certify a lot of things or dare to implement any. One only example : Falcon EASy, NO flight director guidance on take off below 400 ft, certification issues......The list not only for the falcon is never ending ( Autoland, cost index, cpdlc, etc.)
Sometimes a C172 is better equiped.. LOL

[difrips]

Hi CL300,

I do not fully agree with you there. I fly the A340-600 so I consider it to be the latest generation airliner, correct?

FD guidance below 400ft: it exists ok but....on rotation we rotate to X deg pitch up regardless of the FD, because it simply can not cope with the dynamics of take off.

Cost index: how many airlines do you know that use variable CI the way it was intended to be used. Myself I know one. All the others flyconstant CI the whole time. On top of that most pilots will change the CI the whole time to gain those odd 5 minutes flight time...

Autoland: Great feature I have to admit. But from what I understand there is no need to certify most executive jets to do an autoland. Too many small airfields, visual approaches etc. I was flying a european national carrier before, doing european hops all winter. We maybe did 5 CATIII approaches per winter season/pilot on average. Now I am flying a big national carrier in the sandpit. This winter season my number of CATIII approaches stands at....0! So the cost of certifying an airplane to operate in CATIII conditions has to be considered as well...Maybe there just is no economical case for certifying exec airplanes for those kind of ops.

CPDLC: We have it on board these days...true...Its very nice to get a start up clearence in busy aiports or to use while crossing the atlantic. But thats about it....There just is not much use for it because the ATC centres are lagging behind. In europe only Eurocontrol uses it, Shannon atlantic is another one, Brasil ATC when crossing south atlantic, Mumbai FIR, Calcutta and Yangon on one airway....thats about it. And on all these FIR s VHF or HF is still operational as well. So why again, certify the airplanes for those things if the use of it is rather limited? I am sure that once it is widely implimented we will see them appearing on the bizz jets as well.

On the other hand bizz jets introduced long time ago the following:

Electronic nav bag and moving map charts

Trust bias/rudder bias if EFATO

HUD

Big screen EFIS and avionics

....


I tell you one thing, comparing the flight deck of the current generation A340-600 with e.g a GV or 7X is like comparing a 737-200adv to a 737-800.
Airliners are not by far as inovative and pilot friendly as the modern generation bizz jets. My experience off course...:ok:

[Twin2040]

I am heading in same direction - leaving 3 Boeings behind and starting in NJE 190307.

[apilot]

Hello Difrips,
very good decision.
I am about to take the same one even though I am flying the B747-400F for a well known european operator.
I don't want to finish my life tired by jet lags and other boring ultra long haul flights...I won't miss the airlines because I want to fly again the REAL STUFF( wich is flying raw data visual approaches).
I am fed up with flying through the autopilot, after a long boring 11 hours flight.
I thing I won't miss the BIG stuff...:=
Cheers

[Crossunder]

difrips:
Excellent post! I've been having doubts about leaving the airlines as well. My colleagues think I'm crazy for considering NetJets. When I also cancelled my CX interview last week, they thought I'd done raving mad! I haven't been accepted at NJ yet (interview this Saturday), but hope I'll be seeing you guys in a NJ cockpit some time soon! :ok:

PS: buy this month's Airways Magazine, and check out Hugh Pryor's article on "Plane Snobbery" ;)

[unablereqnavperf]

CL300,
If you want technology by a computor I'm a pilot learn't to fly on Harvards and thats where my pasion comes from I only use technology if I absolutley have too. There's no way in hell I would strap my but to a machine flying across time zones just because it can autoland or you can CPDLC ATC! Raw data and visual approaches hand flown are what i became a pilot for, you can't beat hand flying some of the approaches into the Swiss Ski resorts its what makes me a pilot. I've flown mant of the heavies and quite frankly i can teach my 10 year old to operate a modern heavy jet in about an hour on microsoft flight sim! It would take a lot longer to teach him to fly a safe raw data approach into somewhere like Samdan(St Moritz).

[cvfly]

does anyone know something about the training bond, if there is one?nobody mentioned it at the interview..how much..for how long..and for which type rating..

[transilvana]

I always tell the big bus drivers, is your initial climb greater than 6.000fpm at 220kts fully loaded? nop? then I am the big driver, i fly ferraris, you fly yellow school buses.

I enjoy GA, I am flying for one owner, now I want to move to TAG or Netjets, I have the interview with them next month to get back home in south Spain

[potatowings]

Thank you Difrips,

That's exactly what I was trying to say.

[erikv]

cvfly,

it used to be 2 or 3 years depending on total time at date of hire. As far as I know, it's 2 years for all these days.

The sum of the bond is about the cost of a simcourse, no hidden extras.

Erik.

[yacan]

I did it too. Thousands of hrs on the big ones, long haul 11 hrs, Autoland (never used it), sophisticated cockpits (lol), Cat III (did some not many) etc. It wasn't bad of course but....I like the comment about the yellow school bus :-)
I am with NJ now and I love it. The lifestyle, the collegues, the flying, new destinations all the time and the professional operation. I have seen low level GA too ( very low believe me and they were flying Jets)
I believe other GA operators are fine too, but I like the idea to life where I like, it is a great plus. Now I am living in the sun, meeting nice people and enjoying life.

But if you love (or need) big planes, don't do it.

[XPLR]

Indeed, I agree with the lifestyle issue, that's my view completly.
I've been monotoring this forum for months and have come to the conclusion that people want to be pilots for many different reasons.
I have been a pilot for 18 years now and flying for a big European international carrier for 10 years all over the world.
I love it, but you know what, I miss something, and it is becoming harder and harder to ignore.
Because, thinking back about my first reasons of becoming a pilot, going new places, working in a dynamic environment with people who are enthousiastic about their work, and having a flexible schedule. Only 1 of those still hold . . . But they got you by the balls because of seniority and security and salary and social benefits. So now I have to be brave and untangle my balls and cut them free into a scary new world, . . or not? In the first 8 years I flew 2 years on a Kingair and a citation and it was the best flying of my career or did I just remember only the fun parts?

[transilvana]

Hi Yacan and Amex

I hope I can join netjets next month, I have my interview on the 2nd, I had to cancel my previous interview, flying for one owner all days.

GA is great, you don´t loose the pleasure of flying and if you in a great company and can live were you want then is heaven, my wife and small kids will love to see me every 6 days and not every 20 days for 3-4 days only.

I hope I can meet you at lisbon, drink a couple of beers and learn about your experience.

[saffron]

I left a loco to fly a Gulfstream G550,I don't regret it for an instant,I have rediscovered my love of flying & can't wait to get to work,I never thought that would happen again!

[Sgnr de L'Atlantique]

Me as well...opted to change from the big jets to the high performance stuff!

Still waiting to start the job but really looking forward to it!

Somebody here mentioned that article about Aircraft Snobberey.

If anybody has a link or a copy of that article, I would really appreciate that!

What are th views here regarding wanting to go back to an airline once you have been captain on a bizz jet for a while.

Is it possible or not?

It seems to me that a lot of airlines still take into account that 20T MTOW rule before that take into account your PIC time

[B737rider]

Hi guys1
Any of you know of a private BBJ operator that need a Captain ASAP or immediately? (Please do not mention NAS as that one is not interesting!)
I have flown the B737 on contract for airlines for many years now and want to jump on to BBJ.

Take care.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

I hope I can meet you at lisbon, drink a couple of beers and learn about your experience.

Or even in Nice... ;)

Another small plus for me but being a food lover I find it not so negilgeable. Pretty much every night I get to eat something nice and "local". Much better than heated up, dry TUI meals (at the end I was bringing my own food or stuck to fruit).

[hawkerpilot]

I am making exactly the same decision..just want to smile again..:)


First you smile, then after joining Netjets you will cry.....:*

Good luck, but remember, when the downturn sets in soon, there is no turning back and then you better have a (boring) secure job than no job at all or stuck in GA on the old Bravo until retirement.............

I think within a few years more airline boys will be looking at our inferior little niche for the lifestyle it can present if you go with a good company.

Wait till the summer starts and you are in your non-apu bravo or hawker, you are going to think a lot back to the time you where flying your airconditioned :{ airliner...............

[tonker]

Yes there will be a downturn soon, but i doubt it will harm GA as much as the LOCOs. Any downturn because of the imminent harvest of tax on avaition fuel, or terrorism i beleive will only encourage more GA ownership not less.

As for using an Apu for air conditioning, sir we are not allowed to use it for this purpose in my airline, only for engine starting. A boiling cockpit, manual loadsheet, 30 minute turnaround and no food to boot. The grass i should imagine is looking a little less green if your considering a move to the airlines!

As always certain it´s down to the individual as to what lifestyle suits best.

Good luck

[difrips]

Hawkerpilot,


you keep on talking about this downturn of yours! I wonder where you get that information because it sure is not coming from any of the professional litterature available!

On the contrary, the next 10 years they talk about a pilot vacuum- not even a shortage anymore!

Japan: Huge shortage of experienced pilots starting next year due to forced retirement

China: 15000 experienced pilots needed within the next 5 years due to boom

Middle East: 7000 experienced pilots needed only based on number of airplanes on order!

USA and canada: slowly calling back furloughed pilots and opening doors for forreigners with experience due to shortage!

Amd I support Tonkers theory...the more security threats we have, the more time people will loose in airports etc the more members of the rich/famous/succesfull will opt for a mode of transportation as offerred by NJE!

So no...I do not buy your doom theory!

NJE might not be perfect but as said before, it allowed me to tick many more boxes on my preference sheet than many other major carriers!

[markwheety]

I think we have all been labelled crazy from moving from airline to GA but one thing is for sure this is the growing market place.

With all the announcements over the last few weeks its the rich with the high disposable incomes that if all these realisations come true will still want to fly and first class is now second class.

Equally with all the mergers that are being presented, job cuts and redundancies will follow short term as airlines cut costs and then realise as ever that they have cut back too much and start recruiting again.

So are we crazy... in short no. the pay, lifestyle and work may be not a rostered pattern and the best conditions available but the variety, the different attitude to the jobs and the family feel of working for a small company is worth it.....