RAF Meteor 8 in flight explosion 1956?

[Voyeur]

I am trying to find out what the official findings/verdict was on a Meteor Mk8 which exploded over Filey Golf Course; the many parts crash landed for the most part in the boating lake at Butlins Holiday Camp Filey. I witnessed this event, but for the life of me I cannot remember the year....it was August as best I can remember and despite the jet exploding and the location of its crash no one apart from the poor Pilot was killed. Does anyone have any info that can help me, please ?

[henry crun]

If this entry in Broken Wings is the one you are looking for, it sounds more like a disintegration than an explosion.

18/8/53: Meteor F8: WE964: 66 Sqd.: 1/2ml S of Filey, Yorks: Tail broke off in a tail chase: (1 fatal)

[Voyeur]

Dear Mr. Crun, Many thanks for your reply to my query. I would not have believed 1953, but everything else (for the most part) is correct so I'm sure you are right in your answer. For that I thank you.
It leaves some questions though. I witnessed the incident from the moment the aircraft passed by the Filey GC clubhouse about 500', not travelling at a great rate of knots, in level flight save for climbing gently as it went south........only to explode in a orange black mass .There was neither sight nor sound of any other aircraft .......so you can imagine my surprise that the Meteor broke apart as in a structural failure. The explosion was as if it had been hit by a SAM!! Official Board of Inquiry ? Intriguing aint it.
Give my regards to Minnie.
Regards,
Voyeur

[CALLYPILOT]

......Just curious. Is Broken Wings an accessable website? Didn't show up on Google.

[Kieron Kirk]

"Broken Wings"-James J Halley MBE Air Britain ISBN 0 81530 290 4 1999.
Available from the Air Britain web-site.

http://www.air-britain.com/

[CALLYPILOT]

Thanks for the link..........that's useful.

[henry crun]

Voyeur: Sometimes when breakups happen they do so in the twinkling of an eye.

I once watched a Meteor 8 disintegrate at an air display, and if I had been asked for the sequence of events I would have said "it broke into pieces instantaneously", it was almost like an explosion.

The BOI established that it had suffered a double mainplane failure at, or close to, the wing root; the wings then broke into many other smaller pieces; this was followed by the separation of the rear fuselage, which then broke up pieces due the unnatural loads imposed on it.

Quite a lot of Meteors broke up in midair because of the excess loads imposed on them, either cumulative or instantaneous, we had no G meters in those days.

[teeteringhead]

we had no G meters in those days. ... I remember an old Meatbox pilot once telling me that when accelerometers first arrived on the aircraft - they did so before the g-limits arrived...

...so of course every red-blooded fighter pilot went off to see what he could clock on his! :E

[Voyeur]

Dear Mr. Crun,

I must accept what you say re. dis-integration of the Meteor 8. It certainly did not look like that at the time.....one instant a whole aircraft the next a yellow black and orange cloud and flying debris.
Prior to joining PPRuNe I had believed that the Meteor was a relatively safe aircraft; if any aircraft can be safe.
Anyway, as I said, Thank You for your help. It is greatly appreciated.
Best wishes......and to Minnie.

Voyeur

[RETDPI]

"Best wishes......and to Minnie."
Shhhhh....................They're not yet married you know.
The scandal......

[henry crun]

Voyeur: A safe aircraft ? 1953, the year you witnessed the breakup of WE964 was no different from other years around that time.

144 Meteors destroyed with the loss of 84 crew, mostly pilots; quite a lot of those suffered in flight structural failure of one description or another.
There were many more damaged and repaired.

[tilewood]

I believe one broke up and crashed at Westcliff on Sea, near Southend,
Essex in the 1950s.

I wonder if anyone has any info on that.

[henry crun]

From Broken Wings.
10/9/51: Meteor F8: VZ510: 263 Sqn: Westfield Park Drive, Westcliffe-on-Sea, Essex: Broke up in air on test flight: 4 fatal. (pilot and 3 on the ground)

[Davaar]

Mr Crun,

QUOTE
144 Meteors destroyed with the loss of 84 crew, mostly pilots [in 1953]
UNQUOTE

That statistic interests me. Where did you get it? I ask because I'd like to have similar data on other types over the years, and I imagine the same source would provide them.

[henry crun]

Davaar: The info is from Broken Wings, by Air-Britain, isbn 0 81530 290 4.
My copy covers from 1945-1999, all RAF types, and only those accidents which resulted in loss of the aircraft.

The 144/44 numbers are from a quick count, and may not be accurate, but I think they are pretty close.

It is sobering reading for those of us who flew in that period.

[tilewood]

Thanks for that info Henry. Love to Minnie. Haven't heard you much
on the Home Service lately!

[Davaar]

Thank you, henry. Does not surprise me. I recall being told that no matter what we had heard about the ..................., it was not true. I had not heard anything about the ...................., but I began to wonder; and since then, seeing how many went in, I have continued to wonder.

[henry crun]

Davaar: Here are a few more stats from the bad years.

1953 all types, 486 lost, 334 fatalities.
1954 all types, 453 lost, 282 fatalities.
1955 all types, 306 lost, 177 fatalities.
1956 all types, 272 lost, 150 fatalities.

I havn't totalled 1945-1952, but they look as bad if not worse.

Post 1957 the numbers tapered off quite sharply because of the Duncan Sandys defence white paper

[shack]

Mr.Davaar don't wonder about the facts they are true. I was a QFI at a Meteor/Vampire AFS during those years and on average we lost a student every three weeks. That was just one AFS.

[A2QFI]

May I take the liberty of posting a link to a thread I started a long time ago and which generated a lot of comment and interest on these matters raised here?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70987
I too was staggered by the post-war loss rates! Fair to say that many a/c were assessed as Cat 5 as it was easier to get a new one from an MU than spend time and money repairing a broken one. The aircrew attrition rate was truly awful though - over 600 in 1946 if I recall correectly!

[Davaar]

Mr shack and A2, I did not challenge Mr crun. I have followed his contributions for years now and if he says something is so I accept it as so unless I have very good evidence to the contrary, which so far I have yet to find.

A year or two ago I was chatting with an ex-RCAF pilot of fairly recent vintage, and the topic of attrition came up. I was astonished to learn that in his time he had known two pilots who were killed.

I once idly made a list of pilots who had to my knowledge gone to glory, 1953 to 1957, in the RAF and FAA, all in conditions of peace. I stopped the depressing task at 34.

As I was being strapped into a hot pursuit ship, lukewarm anyway, at one of Mr shack's FTS during his years, the cheery airman offered the pensee: "About time again, Sir!". He and his mates, so he told me, reckoned on at least "one" per ten weeks, and we were now at week 9.

I have never seen the statistics on the Vampire 5 and the Venom, but I'd like to.

[Voyeur]

Dear Mr. Crun.

I've slept on it; I've racked my memory....but I cannot for the life of me reconcile myself to a 1953 date line for the above. Be in no doubts, my memory is not a patch on what it once was, so let me explain. I also witnessed an in flight collision between Meteor 7s from RAF Driffield FTS, at least 2 pilots were killed. But as best I can remember this incident preceded the Meteor 8 incident! One of the reasons I want to be sure about this date is because I want to get hold of a national paper that gave full coverage of this accident (done by the Daily Express, as I vaguely recall).Without a date to be sure of, it'll cost me a small fortune on buying wasted papers ! But the rest of what you said remains valid. Only the year still does not ring true.
Thank You
Voyeur
p.s. best wishes to you " no "who

[henry crun]

Voyeur: Although I think it unlikely, it is possible Broken Wings has the wrong date.

Rather than approach the Express would it not be easier to check with a local newspaper ?
An event like that would almost certainly be given prominence, and you are more likely to get a prompt reply from a small local paper than a national daily.

Edit to add, In the period Jan 52 to Dec 1957 I can find only two references to collisions involving Mk 7's.
The first is between a Mk8 and a Mk7 at Bllackmore, Essex, on 3/4/54 when one pilot was killed.
Second was two Mk 7's of CFS who collided at Upper Heyford on 28/7/54, the four occupants where killed.

The is one entry involving a Mk7 at Driffield in that period, when on 9/4/53 WL413 (type not given) landed on top of Mk 7 VT240. No fatalities involved in that accident.

To return to the Filey location, there is another entry on 27/8/54, 2 mls south of Filey, aircraft abandoned in a dive after a tailchase, but that was a Mk 7, not an 8.

[tilewood]

Following my post about a Meteor that crashed at Westcliff on Sea, the details confirmed by henry crun, a friend of mine told me of another
that he says he and his brother actually saw crash in the early 1950s at
South Benfleet in Essex.

I had never heard of that accident, does anyone have any further details?

[henry crun]

tilewood: this might be the one your friend witnessed.

12/4/52: Meteor F8: WF700: 41 Sqn: South Benfleet, Essex: Engine caught fire, abandoned.

[Gainesy]

It appears that those who didn't see a Meteor accident are in the minority. I saw one do a wheels up at Finningley in or around 1953-55. It was later jacked up and towed away so I presume the damage was slight.

[tilewood]

Thankyou henry I will pass those details on.

My friend and his younger brother took off on their bikes and arrived
at the scene within a few minutes, but the police had already secured the
area. I believe it is now part of a housing estate.

[treadigraph]

Gainesy, that's me - I was lucky to be at Mildenhall the day before the Meteor and Vampire collided...

I notice Henry's figures 1953-56 prove a year to year reduction in accidents. Luck, improved training or diminution of available airframes and drivers?