JAA license worth it?

[50feet]

greetings all

I am considering doing the JAA conversion, all the exams flight tests etc etc as a south african CPL holder. I would like to know from fellow saffers who have done this if it is worth shelling out all the cash to do it. I do not have a EU or British passport and I am not eligible for an ancestral UK Visa.

What i would like to know is am i eligible for employment in europe without the above mentioned. Has anyone else been in a similair position? I do not want to take a loan for this, kuk off and then find myself not being able to secure work over there. How difficult is it for the airlines over there to get you a work visa?

A JAA license sounds all great and all, but without a work permit is it really worth it???

[Dotun]

Hello,

Depending on your experience, the whole process could be done in as little as a month or two. Again, depending on your experience, the cost might not be that bad (maybe as low as £3000 - £5000). Check out http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=1591 for more information on the group you fall into.

With regards to working in Europe, I think you will find that you need an European passport in other to apply for most these jobs. Do a little research, go to the web pages of the airlines you intend to work for and look at their requirements. These sometimes depend on the demand and supply, an example is Ryanair, they are taking on pilots and giving them the right to live and work in Europe as long as the pilot is current on the NG type.

Regards
DMan

[putt for dough]

Just to add on to the above post, Ryanair are only offering
work permits to suitably qualified Skippers for their fleet.
For f/o's they only hire pilots who already have the right to live and work
in the EU,naturally with a JAA licence.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

Presumably a Ryanair work permit would be issued to a Captain (ATPL holder) by the Irish Home Affairs Office (or whatever) on the basis that Ryanair could not find a suitably qualified employee locally? Would it be true to say that such a work permit would only be valid for the period of employmemnt with that company in Eire?:)

[bear11]

cc - yes, you can see further information here on the Department website.

http://www.entemp.ie/labour/workpermits/

50feet, as you rightly say there are 2 issues - 1) right to live and work, and 2) your licence. Having 1 or the other certainly helps, but don't assume that all airlines will apply for a work permit for you, Ryanair are a rarity. Generally speaking, any airlines that will apply are specifically interested in experienced Captains rather than another to join the hordes of wannabes or low timers here - no offence, that's the way it is (as Putt for Dough says, they couldn't pass the Labour Market Needs test for F/Os). Equally, if they can find someone local who has what they want, they don't want or need the hassle of dealing with government departments.

Some CAAs will give you a temporary validation during which time you will have to pass either all JAA exams or a set number of them during that validation period.

I hope this helps, and I'm not trying to set myself up as an expert on the subject!

[GgW]

I have spoken to a Ryanair captain, that does not have a EU passport, his response was that Ryanair did not helped him with a visa he had to get his own ''highly skilled migration visa'' for the UK.
I can't really understand why most airlines wants to have a EU passport, if you fly for a scheduled airline but have a visa/residence permit for the country that your based in, for example UK , your crew pass with your South African passport should be good enough ( according to ICAO ), because you will most times not be for more than 48 hours in the destination country, if you fly charter then you must have a visa for the destination country.
Thats the rumours that I heard and info from my airlaw manual, but stand to be corrected.

[B200Drvr]

Because without the passport, there is no stability, you still do not have the legal right to work in that country on a permenant basis, your visa can be withdrawn at any time for any reason.

[whiskey1]

An Airline might accept you without a EU passport but a mate of mine (with an English wife) was having difficulty because of the South African Passport.

As for Converting to a JAA Licence. No you wouldn't do it in a month or two.
You have 14 exams to complete and 2 flight test of which at least one must be done in europe. As for costing only 3000 to 5000 pounds.
Cost of 14 exam 840 pounds
2 flight tests @ 691 pounds each
Thats 2222 pounds before you look at flight training or ground school courses.
It is a Minimum of 15 hours training for the Instrument Rating.

Cheapest way is with a Distance Learning course for the exams.
PM me if you want more.
I work for a JAA Training provider. Go east to convert!

[Dotun]

Hey whiskey1,
I said depending on the experience, a look at lasors if you care to look will explain how to you. Different terms applies to holders of ATPL with 1500 hours on multi-crew aircraft, or holders of ATPL with 3000 hours and 1500 PIC (Captain). The later need just two written exams, and a (one) flight test observed by the CAA inspector / examiner. Yes the whole process can be done in as little as a month or two costing £3000-£5000 for the later group. I also write, as someone who has gone through the process / know people who have gone through the later process.

I would say, get an ATPL and multi crew time, then convert. Much quicker and cheaper that way, PM me as well if you need more info.

Regards
Dman

[manamana]

MK airlines would consider you very seriously if you had your JAA ticket, and still wanted to live in SA

[oceanpilot]

check here very similar

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=266452

[birdlady]

50 feet,

Have you got any other qualifications? If so, Ireland is the place you want to go to...............they love foreigners (cheaper labour:E) Saffers seem to be especially welcome. :ok: I know that you want to fly but you dont want to take the risk if your a low houred pilot of converting and then not being able to find a job. (conversion would cost you +- euros 10 000 for CPL/ multi IR and then at least another 30 000 for a type rating :eek: ). I beleive that after two years of working in the country your entitled to apply for permanent residency therefore no more work permit issues with the airlines. Its the long winded way of doing it but if your not interested in charter or instructing and you want to fly for the airlines then the JAA is definately worth it. :ok:

You might find this website usefull. www.flyinginireland.com

My 2c :rolleyes:

[whiskey1]

Sorry Dotun,
The question posted asked about converting a CPL not an ATPL.
I agree that you can convert an ATPL with the costs outlined as it may involve only 2 exams and a flight test not the 14 exams and 2 flight test for the CPL and I/R.

W1

[beechbum]

Dotun,
terms applies to holders of ATPL with 1500 hours on multi-crew aircraft, or holders of ATPL with 3000 hours and 1500 PIC (Captain).
Is the 1500 PIC applicable above a certain weight category? I haven't read the regs on this but have heard via the via, that it has to be above a certain weight category to qualify to write only two of the CAA exams!
Can you confirm this?

[whiskey1]

Different terms apply to ATPL holders with 3000 hours flying experience as pilot of Public Transport Aircraft over 30 000kg on Schelduled International or similar routes,including a minimum of 1500 hours as Pilot in Command (Captain).