Heli-Expo Rumors & News

[Shawn Coyle]

It's getting close, and I was always told that if you haven't heard a rumor by noon, start one yourself...
What do you think is going to be new at this year's show?
Will Frank Robinson finally unveil a turbine?
Will Bell announce first flight of the 429?
Will Agusta announce another, faster, more capable version of the A109?
Or the AW139B?

And this is a rumor network, isn't it????

[i4iq]

I don't think Frank's turbine will be unveiled but how about the stripped down R44 for the training market? (Not sure what there is left to take out though...)

[Lamaman]

Bell will announce at HAI that the 417 program has been cancelled. New management at Bell feels that they have too many irons in the fire and need to re-group. Could this lead to a 407 re-engine project (i.e.407B)?
Time will tell!!

[Whirlygig]

but how about the stripped down R44 for the training market?

That'll be the new R33 that Capt Hollywood is currently working on!

Cheers

Whirls

[John Eacott]

Strong rumour coming from the factory that the R55 is very close, Frank's invested in a lot of C20 related equipment :cool:

[22clipper]

We were discussing how uncle Frank might mount the venerable C20 the other day, flat pack B206 style, angled like the H500 or sumfin uniquely Frank (maybe reduction drive & right angle change-of-direction in one gearbox?). It has to be clever to leave room for those 2 sets of golf clubs.

Remined me of an observation I wrote a few months back......

I've been an admirer of the JetRanger for a long time. But, like movie star adoration, my fandom had been from a distance. It wasn't till yesterday that I finally got up close & personal. The 'flying it' part was great but the walk round was revealing, the power plant mount in particular. The C20 & transmission is a mechanical power house swimming in liquids, hydraulic fluid, avtur, gearbox lubricant & engine oil. I counted 6 drain tubes and they all leak a little bit. So the Bell designers took the pragamatic engineers approach & mounted the whole kit in a structure not unlike a kitchen sink. To be more precise the engine bay reminded me of an autopsy table, all sloping sides leading irrevocably to the drain hole in the middle. Still I don't mind. The object of my affections is still gorgeous & what's a little incontinence amongst friends!

[i4iq]

I thought Frank had decided on a Rolls-Royce engine...

[John Eacott]

I thought Frank had decided on a Rolls-Royce engine...



Who just happen to make the C20 :p

[topendtorque]

Rumour?
I'd a thought a prophecy to be easier.

at the S&A closing time all the stiffs who have been drinking demurely all night will be squirrel up.

and bertie boy will then nonchalantly stroll out
towards the next years challenge, with the femme fatales - and - the steering pin-lock as the perpetual trophy.:cool:

[SASless]

Bell Helicopters will unveil yet another "new" model of the Jet Ranger. It will however have the same sorry seats as the original.:rolleyes:

[Spunk]

Will Bell announce first flight of the 429?


Too late:

Bell429 (http://helimat.free.fr/7_Bell429_C-GBLL.htm)
At least it had it's first roll out.:D

[Doors Off]

Bell Helicopters will unveil yet another "new" model of the Jet Ranger. It will however have the same sorry seats as the original
Here, here! Unfortunately for Bell, their big announcement for the 429 first flight will be interupted by anti racketeering police who will arrest the Bell executives for not declaring that all Physiotherapists, on,near or around airports, are being paid retainers by Bell Textron to not disclose that the Bell Jetranger series is to blame for Helo pilots bad backs.:{

[i4iq]

Quote:
"I thought Frank had decided on a Rolls-Royce engine...

Who just happen to make the C20 :p"


Oops! (Although originally developed by Allison...) I thought Frank might go for something new and exciting...

[More Payload]

"Bell will announce at HAI that the 417 program has been cancelled........Could this lead to a 407 re-engine project (i.e.407B)?
Time will tell!!"
The 417 was a 407 re-engine project. How would this make sense?
Certainly believe 429 first flight will happen during HAI.

[i4iq]

Will launch a new range of helicopter seat cushions and sweep the market!

[diethelm]

How about a PPrune pool for base price of the Robinson Turbine?

[SASless]

A lot of things Bell does......doesn't make much sense.:rolleyes:

[22clipper]

$US790 000, neatest correct entry wins a....???

[B Sousa]

Speaking of rumors. I heard MD Helicopters was going to buy Robinson.........

[Dynamic Component]

And Eurocopter are buying Rotorway:hmm:
I wonder if Rotax has better customer service than Turbomeca:rolleyes:

[SASless]

Bristow will have an interesting announcement about the acquisition of a well known operation in the USA.

Keep yer ears on!

[i4iq]

So is it that Adeventurous Helicopter training organisation? In the town of Titus?

[R1Tamer]

Latest suggests they're paying 15 million for the privilege - PC must be smiling from ear to ear

[misterbonkers]

Robinson have ordered 300 C20s and will be announcing the HD version of the R44 ENG - it will be interesting to see the spec of the gimbal given the size and weight limitations.

[vaqueroaero]

To remove one form the list:

The 429 flew on it's maiden flight yesterday (Feb 27th) for about half an hour.

[air9eng]

http://www.aintv.com/home.asp?CATEGORY_ID=27&ID=101&FMT=WM

[thecontroller]

the bristow thing is interesting. what will they do to it? rebrand it? ditch the FAA side? start doing JAA IRs? make it JAA only?

[X35 IARO]

Latest suggests they're paying 15 million for the privilege - PC must be smiling from ear to earAs well he should. PC's a good man and definitely earned every penny of it (he should have held out for 20 mil!).

//back to lurking

[Tango and Cash]

Top article on www.aero-news.net (http://www.aero-news.net) is Bell's announcement of a LongRanger upgrade. So if I can't have my 417, I can at least upgrade my 1970s era 206L! :ugh:

[Big Bucks Bernie]

Good news and bad news from Bell at industry show
By BOB COX
STAR-TELEGRAM STAFF WRITER
Posted on Thu, Mar. 01, 2007
http://www.dfw.com/images/dfw/startelegram/news/64958-51606.jpg
Bell's 429 had its first test flights this week and "performed flawlessly (Photo: BELL HELICOPTER)


ORLANDO, Fla. -- For two years, Bell Helicopter has kicked off the industry's big trade show with spectacular product unveilings. On Wednesday, Bell opened up a decidedly mixed bag of news.

Score it one successful first flight for a new helicopter, the model 429, and an early death for a second one. The model 417 is being terminated.

The announcements on the eve of the Helicopter Association International Heli Expo highlighted the turbulence that Fort Worth-based Bell has flown into in recent months. A series of problems and setbacks on both military and civil programs helped lead to the firing in late January of Chief Executive Michael Redenbaugh.

Bob Fitzpatrick, Bell's senior vice president of marketing and sales, tried to shine a positive light on the situation.

"Bell Helicopter is now on what we call the leading edge of [the] vertical lift" aircraft industry, Fitzpatrick said.

The company enjoyed a banner year in 2006, Fitzpatrick said, delivering 153 new civil helicopters and taking orders for 402 more. Bell's order backlog tops $3.1 billion.

New CEO Richard Millman wasn't at the news conference; he was meeting with the board of directors of parent company Textron.

The Bell 429 prototype made two flights totaling about an hour at the company's Mirabel facility near Montreal and "performed flawlessly," said Bill Stromberg, program manager for the highly touted twin-engine aircraft.

"We're real pleased with what we saw," Stromberg said. "There were absolutely no problems."

Customers have plunked down cash deposits for 190 of the twin-engine helicopters since the 429 was announced two years ago. Bell has 30 more "commitments" from customers who have yet to pay deposits.

Stromberg said that nearly all of the 429 buyers have maintained their orders even though the program is a year behind schedule. The company now says it hopes to have the aircraft certified safe and airworthy by government regulators by September 2008.

Fitzpatrick said Bell decided to halt development of the 417, an upgrade of its dated 407, after it became clear the company could not meet the performance specifications at the promised price.

Bell rolled out the 417 in Dallas last March, hoping to stem sales gains by American Eurocopter. Bell officials promised a more powerful aircraft that could carry more payload at higher altitude and into mountainous areas.

"There was not a significant enough value difference to bring it to the marketplace," Fitzpatrick said. The demise of the 417 is not a big blow, he said, because the 407 is still selling well.

Bell had taken more than 130 orders for the aircraft.

Fitzpatrick said Bell decided to terminate the 417 in December. But in a conference call with financial analysts in late January and again in meetings in early February, Textron CEO Lewis Campbell indicated that the program was still under way.

Financial and industry analysts said the decision to terminate the 417 program was worrisome, given Bell's ongoing inability to meet delivery and cost commitments on the Marine H-1 and Army Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter programs.

"This is another hiccup at Bell we'd rather not see," said Stephen Tusa, a JPMorgan analyst, adding that Textron investors would like to see evidence that Bell can deliver on its promises.

Aerospace industry consultant Richard Aboulafia said Bell, like other U.S. helicopter makers, was struggling to cope with a surge of commercial orders, implement new technology and cope with military demands from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"It's concerning, but it's not like they fell asleep at the switch," Aboulafia said. "There's a lot going on."

Source: Star-Telegram.com (http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/16809187.htm)

[Head Turner]

Would Bell have looked at the A119Ke and seen that they could not compete.
The A119Ke has awesome performance and usability.
The 429 looks the part. Are there any more photos of it?

[andTompkins]

Tango and Crash ... you should be more appreciative of pet projects of past acquaintances! :O


Here's an interesting one as well ...

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/16809187.htm

[Spunk]

Top article on www.aero-news.net is Bell's announcement of a LongRanger upgrade. So if I can't have my 417, I can at least upgrade my 1970s era 206L!
Now I understand why people around Europe are battling over f***ed up LongRangers from the mid 70's...
See what media can do... :ugh:

[SASless]

Bell Helicopters will unveil yet another "new" model of the Jet Ranger. It will however have the same sorry seats as the original.

Hmmmmm....where did I hear that before?

I will bet the pilot seats are not part of any improvement mod!:{

[andTompkins]

SASless ...

Not riding front seat in the LongRanger that often, can you explain what's wrong with the seat? They do appear to be of the wooden park bench variety with minimal padding.

Thanks!

[SASless]

Crikey....a park bench is better than a Jet Ranger seat. Even when I was built like a Whippet (all p-rick and ribs) they were a killer. Hard, no adjustment....lumbar pad in the newer ones that are designed for someone about nine foot tall....and pedals that could be moved six inches forward and then adjust so they fit normal people. The 407 is worse yet...the seat is further forward than the 206 thus forcing your number nines into an awkward angle thus causing you to have PAD or DVT.

But then I got spoiled in my youth flying Chinooks and 58T's.

Boeing did put out one seat cushion that had a herring bone looking weave to the fabric that the CIA could replace water boarding with and have much more success in getting folks to chatting.

[Blackhawk9]

Bell was quick!! the 417 has been removed from the Bell web site , was there Monday ,Gone now!

[rotorfloat]

First flight of the 429 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7priSgMfolk)


:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

[Head Turner]

Bell 429. It was great to see the first flight video. I wish Bell all good fortune for this new model. It certainly has the right proportions and hopefully will have a decent range (3 hours in MCP) and reasonable payload.

[topendtorque]

certainly looks quite neat, probably a silly q, any sneak preview of the EOL H/V chart credentials?

[B Sousa]

As to Manufacturers. Bell looked quiet with lots of empty space, Eurocopter and Sikorsky were going gangbusters, MD was there barely, Augusta-Westland also busy.

[flyby_heli]

AIN tv (http://www.aintv.com) Has updates from the show every day.

Worth checking out if you are not attending

[Heliport]

ORLANDO – Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. and VIH Aviation Group Ltd. today signed a contract to provide another S-92 to support offshore oil operations in Northeastern Canada.

The aircraft will be used by VIH’s subsidiary, Cougar Helicopters Inc. It is expected to be delivered in July 2008. This will be the third consecutive S-92 purchase by VIH for Cougar within the last five months. This latest purchase increases the current VIH/Cougar inventory to six S-92 aircraft.

Ken Norie, President/CEO of VIH and Cougar, said the S-92 has won over his company with its steady reliability as a proven and popular aircraft.
“We selected the S-92 because of its reliability, increasing product maturity, and the economic value it represents in operation. Additionally our end-user customers like the space and comfort of the S-92 and Sikorsky’s legacy of commitment to safety,” Norie said.

[rotorspeed]

Head Turner

Unfortunately when I looked at the 429 quite carefully a couple of years ago the one thing it did not have was a decent range. Seem to recall working out it was due to have a real world endurance with VFR reserves of about 2hr 15mins at fast cruise, which as you know is at least 30mins too short for corp/biz work! Maybe Bell have increased tank capacity. But I suspect not!

[B Sousa]

As an outsider the Bell Booth said to me, it appears theres a lot of headchopping going on in the main office. I mean it was just Sooooo quiet and to have only the 407s on display. Something is up or someone dropped the ball. Bell has always been one of the top Vendors.

P.S...A thanks to all the nice staff who provided us with the usual Bell Goodies. I showed the Branding Iron to my wife but she said "No Way"

[autorotor]

How about putting a diesel engine in the 44? This would sell in places where AVGAS has become so expensive it would even justify to use a 44 over a Schweizer (I know many of you guys might think it is justified even so.....):8

[Big Bucks Bernie]

That would be a great idea, but...
Robinson said “tremendous research” went into the engine choice, and had one been available, his first choice would have been a diesel, “if there were one light enough to do the job.”
Source: AIN Report - Robinson commits to Rolls-Royce power for R66 (http://www.ainonline.com/Publications/HAI/HAI_2007/d2_4robinson.htm)

[3top]

FR missed to look at Mistral Engines from Geneva Switzerland.
They are certifying their first engine at this time and selling 4 models for the experimental market.
The Jet-A models are on bench-testing.
Mistral's CEO doesn't like them to be called "Diesel" as the engines are not real Diesels as in "Compression-Ignition". They still use spark(plugs) for ignition, but burn Jet-A or Diesel or whatever you want...
The basic idea about the engine is not to be a Diesel, but to be able to run on Jet-A.
Also their engines are very simple and cheap to overhaul.
Some time ago I proposed to Robinson on a low-key level (Frank is very busy and hard to get hold of unless you know him personally...).
Mistral worked out a possible Twin-Pack with about 480hp Take-off and 400hp MCP (..actually we got to 3 different layouts, but Frank is an excellent transmission designer himself, so the idea was to introduce the "possibilities"). True the pack weights a lot more than a RR-300, but a lot less then any alternative. (Actually we calcu/guessed that the twin-pack would weight no more than the most powerful Lyc 540)
The base question was also price. What is the price for a RR-300 today??
The twin-pack would be about 1/3 or less, guessing.
At 3000 hrs TBO and overhaul at around 25K (2005-$), it is a lot cheaper to operate than a turbine.
These Engines run on DDEC (call it FADEC if you want....), which actually gives you 4 independent controllers or triple back-up.
Emergency Power for one engine can run about 320hp for 10 min - overhaul/inspection required - done in one day by trained personnel....
It looks like Robinson got hold of a company that sells (or tries to...) a similar product, but did not "deliver" - so it seems Robinson abandoned this possible route. I think there was some mix-up, that was not followed up.
A shame, as this would cut the cost of the end-product and still give it a performance edge over the turbine.
Oh yeah, the Twin-pack can maintain rated power to 12.000" no problem!
3top :cool:

[Avnx EO]

Thanks to Big Bucks Bernie for posting the real news. I couldn't believe how the Heliexpo daily news totally ignored the announcement of 429 first flight. :mad: It's the first clean-sheet helicopter design from Bell since the 222 and the show press totally ignored it !! They didn't even print a picture.... Good or bad, you'd think the first flight of a totally new type was a pretty significant event in the industry. Someone must of P.O.'d somebody for them to bury the event the way they did.
The same information goes the Star Telegram (who love to bash Bell as a general rule) and it comes out with a totally different spin. And they, at least, printed the picture. (Pretty, isn't she.)
Maybe the press at HAI had deposites on 417s or something.
I'd blame it on Bell's P.R. but I note that Sikorsky had a bunch of big announcements at their booth with the S-92 that didn't get any press in the show news either.
Avnx PO'd

[Ian Corrigible]

Fully agree. AIN & RH are usually pretty professional rags, but it was astonishing to see how much coverage some of the smaller players in the industry got, and how several of the key stories from the show were mis-reported (or mis-headlined). I'm guessing that this is fall-out from the press's savaging at the hands of Lynn Tilton last year, with few journos still willing to 'editorialize' in order to see past the smoke and mirrors.

I/C

[Creaser]

AVnx EO,

HAI news had pic and story of S-92 on page 3 March 2nd.
429 flight was reported within the story of 417 on March 1.

Not totally ignored.

The focus of the rag is as the tilte suggests "HAI Convention News".


Creaser.

[heli1]

No pictures of the Bell 429 flight published...could be because Bell didn't provide any...unless you photo'd their film clip !
Also first flight was a hover and few turns up and down the runway and never getting above 40ft before disappearing back into the shed again to bve taken apart !
Publicity stunt anyone ???

[Avnx EO]

She flew on the Tuesday before the show, press conference was Wed. There were obviously pictures in the press kit since the Star Telgram and other pubs were able to find them.... And I'd say burying a few lines on page 41 within the continued story of the 417 cancellation still qualifies as ignoring.

By the way, do people actually think you crank out a first flight to Vne or something? People have been watching too many movies. First flights (and flight test in general) are not exciting. In fact, they're bloody boring. They're for collecting data, so you can methodically, scientifically, and safely, expand the flight envelope. But we still consider it a big deal when a new design gets to that point in its life.

The film clip was, of course, editted for presentation. They flew multiple flights the first day. First flights were SCAS-off with very tight flight restrictions for data collection. She came up level (not tail heavy like so many other new designs that fly for the first time). And from the film (I mean the longer film and not just the you-tube version), it looks as though they "bumped" through some of those first-flight restrictions pretty fast. I'd say they must've been pleased with how it flew.

Avnx EO

[SirVivr]

They loaded it to 6,500 lbs. Max gross, 7000 lbs. Hovered at 65% Tq.
Couldn't ask about endurance since this was an overheard conversation at the Twirly Birds meeting, followed by the Columbia 50th Anniversary party.
Lucky to remember that much.
Chas A

[PANews]

Bell this year was a strange affair. So little about so little.

No 429 mock-up [but two 407s]

No 210

Farnborough UK majored on the X-Car.... and yet this opportunity to gap fill with the mock-up at HAI was dropped. I am unaware that it has ever been presented to a US audience. It would have been fun if that is all....

It was also the 206 40th... they could even have marked that.

As I say strange!