All GF B767's indefinitely grounded!!!!!!

[left_to_first_class]

News from Ops this morning.

Six B767 have to be grounded for the remainder of the Winter schedule to ensure that outstanding faults are fixed - and no exact timeframe for these planes to return back into the fleet from SR techs.

Any of you 767 drivers heard anymore about what will happen to your roster ?

[LOC GREEN]

This information is a bit exaggerated and does not make any sense :rolleyes: … I would understand that GF grounding A/C’s if they are unsafe to fly but not for outstanding technical problems unless they are all unsafe which I doubt it :suspect: … if this is the case they might as well ground all A320’s!!! Secondly, grounding six A/C’s means a lot of flights has to be cancelled that’s mean just close the airline and stay home… :ugh:

[runway in use]

Thats alot at one time!!!!!

how come they ground 6 767s at one time, confirm from your resourses again. they might be thinking to ground them once they lease new aircrafts.

[left_to_first_class]

LOC

This info is not exaggerated.

There was a change proposal sent out by schedule planning and it didn't make good reading.
From my sources, scheduling are looking at cancelling a large number of flights for a few weeks in March.
The "grounding" is to fix some problems so that the A and C checks are completed correctly (unlike Gamco).

[jackbauer]

3 76's grounded. lease in's to cover shortfall. Thank GAMCO maintainance!

[runway in use]

any idea which aircraft they gonna lease???

[neilb767]

Jack,
Not that Im defending GAMCO, but it is GF responsibility to make sure that your contracted maintance provider actually does the maintance to your requirements. ( you dont get what u deserve, you get what you negotiate)

Frankly, I think the mess is the responsibility of the GF liason.

GF is literally coming apart at the seams, check out Flight International, I think its NOV 06 edition. 15 Years ago GF had 80 % of the gulf market, and today GF's share is equal to 3 year old EY at just 15 %.

GF was apparently one of the first airlines to do a CAT approach into LHR, and today only has the basic ETOPS.

Its a slow degredation of the airline, the only constant here is the middle management and there ideology. ie , it worked 20 yrs ago !

Clear skys and tailwinds aheah ?? I dont think so !...

[Left Coaster]

Gf live up to anything contractual? Won't happen soon guys...I have first hand exerience (along with quite a few others who have left in the past few years) of the way GF handles anything "legal"...wouldn't trust them as far as I could chuck em...thieves and pirates...
Having said that I did work alongside some really good people, line guys who only wanted to get in a fair days work. Although the tools they had to work with were in poor shape...Hope that those who stay remain safe... watch yer six boys, this company won't be "gittenerdun" sometime soon.

[surely not]

My understanding is that 1 a/c has been found to have problems and the others need to be checked before being returned to service if they are clear of the problem.

Let us hope that the problem is not fleet wide and is restricted to one a/c, which would at least be manageable and not give widespread disruption to the passengers.

I am not going to say what the problem is as I haven't the basic engineering knowledge to describe it properly, and there is enough exaggeration on here already!!

[Jockofthebushveld]

Please LOC green , Believe things some time !!!!
6 Planes are grounded and most of us are staying put at home.Jakarta,Katmandu,Dhaka, has all been cxd.GF will never take planes off for service they are too short, these planes are stuffed.The only one flying is A4O-GV and that i flew a few days ago and already had 5 snags of which was.
Aft temp controller- u/s
Right IRS- U/s
LeftH Thurst REV -u/s
And we got flap/slat assemetry too, which becomes a no go eventually.
I was phoned to stay home and the crew desk gave me the info on how many is stuffed.

Happy flying

[surely not]

A4O-GU taxiing for take off as I write, positioning to DUB. Not sure why it is going to DUB.

[Trader]

Gone to DUB for maintenance - which is a good thing since he mechs there will NOT release it until it is it and legal. Last year they kept the first one for several extra weeks and had Boeing come to inspect some serious corrosion issues.

The 6th aircraft apparantly failed a boroscope on the engine - grounded. This is an unplanned set of groundings and, hopefully, will embarras GF to point that something gets done. Heads in the maintenance dept should roll over this fiasco since it is going to be costly.

We don't get bonus' because ther is no profit yet this crap continues to happen!!

I hope the governments are finally embarrased to the point of action - GF neds a wholesale housecleaning.

[Jockofthebushveld]

Just got a call, I am on stby due to the 9th 767 been grounded
mashalla!!!

[gulfboy]

Had a bit of a look at AIMS and there are still quite a few 767 flights rostered for today, tomorrow and the following days.
And true, a few AC are being flown to DUB and other places with only flight deck and one CC.
Incidently, WHY is one CC needed on such trips?

[left_to_first_class]

Yep, It ain't looking to good for GF over the next week.
Already massive disruption with DAC, KTM, JKT, KUL and others cancelled.

Other airlines are rubbing their hands with this disruption as GF only ends up paying the other carriers to carry these pax - many who bought seats at cheap prices !

Some of the B767 are grounded indefinitely until corrosion and other problems are fixed.
Is this the wake-up call for the "bored" to sign some new aircraft, cancel unprofitable routes and fire those in maintenence who should have kept an eye on the quality of work from Gamco ?

Talk amongst the local staff is that the company is going down because of these problems, and more to come on the A320 when these start going in for closer checks.

Andre Dose - do you really want to come here ??

[REACH-69]

Reading all these bulletins ,about what's going on ( a/c's grounded ,crew stranded down route and flights cancelled ) makes me wonder for how long this company is gonna survive and the local guys are still staying back.........all i can say is that you guys are really loyal to your company and i have to salute you for your spirit.:ok:

[gulfboy]

Say, could it be that someone is ****ting bricks at the moment because he just realized that GF's IATA/IOSA (IATA operatioal safety audit) is expiring on May 5th.
(http://www.iata.org/ps/services/iosa/operators/Gulf+Air.htm)

[sheryas777]

One hundred % agree,GF should get rid of those kept quite about the condition of the aircraft.Some who once were incharge of GF and assigned in Gamco to follow up on the maintenance of GF aircraft.
If the Boared and management are closing their eyes and do not want to question those involved,there are poeple who are trying to take up the matter in Bahrain parlement.
Miss Latifa Alqoud is keen to bring up Gulf air lost and mismangement.

[Spirit]

Just wait and watch, you guys: As always, it will be someone else's fault, as absolutely MAFI wrongdoings ever happen in the pink palace.
Anywhere else, someone might end up dancing at the end of a rope (or having his head chopped off, as in that place beyond the causeway), but certainly not here.
I'm telling you folks: It's all a conspiracy by the evil europeans, the evil americans...or the evil...others ;-)
GF never did anything wrong :}

[LOC GREEN]

It is true... all 767's probably will be grounded tomorrow... there are two a/c left on the line, these are going for a check tomorrow midday and most probably will be grounded as I heard today from the guys in ops… what I understood that all 767’s have corrosion (main problem!!) and unsafe to fly but GF hoping that some of them will be released to service after some maintenance :uhoh:

[neilb767]

I would imagine operation "SAVE FACE" is about to be launched from the pink palace anytime now.

Keep your boots handy, imagine there will be a lot of dung to walk through in the next few days.

[left_to_first_class]

OK hot off the press ....

ALL 767 (GF and GT) are grounded with immediate effect.
Main reason is the corrosion.

[Panama Jack]

gulfboy, I was thinking the same last night after talking to a fellow 767 FO. Very untimely and unfortunate that this all happens just as GF is going through the IATA audit. :(
Hopefully some good things will come out of it. Normally these types of scenarios are major wakeup calls to all.

[wastafarian]

meanwile in other news:

Gamco wins contract
Abu Dhabi: Gulf Aircraft Maintenance Company (Gamco) has been awarded a new five-year Dh343 million contract by the UAE Air Force and Air Defence.

The contract covers carrying out of second line scheduled and unscheduled maintenance on the UAE Air Force fleet of Hawk MK 102, MK63 & MK61 aircraft based at Khalifa bin Zayed Air College in Al Ain and Al Minhad Airbase in Dubai.

The contract with Gamco will guarantee high standard of aircraft maintenance availability and serviceability.

The maintenance support contract on the Hawk aircraft also includes component maintenance, engineering and technical support services, training services, maintenance planning and control and logistics and supply support.


http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=171263&Sn=BUSI&IssueID=29345


transfer funds from left pocket into right pocet.

[LOC GREEN]

wastafarian,
I don't know what this to do with the issue we discussing here, however all 767's are grounded for not less than two months as mentioned in one of the Arabic news papers in Bahrain... :{

For those who can read Arabic:

http://www.alayam.com/ArticleDetail.asp?CategoryId=1&ArticleId=236590 (http://www.alayam.com/ArticleDetail.asp?CategoryId=1&ArticleId=236590)

[Yo767]

We will discuss the matter at Bill's bonfire tonight and find a solution.

[jimmyhagendas]

This is absolutely unacceptable,already the lowest paid pilots in the gulf and now Im not making money because on sby because of this.
It is for sure time to look around for a new job.

[CG11]

Why Gulf air decided to stop 6 or 7 aircraft at one time ,

1- it was not safe to fly at all

2- inspection comming over and they are shocked

3- they knew about it since last year and still all the A/C was in service why is it because they do not care , because top managemet they do not fly 767

i am here for less than one year and i found it , fun at the begining but now , ( I) do not know if this company will continue or no because what is happining is too much 6 or more A/C out service anf for 1 months or more ..

my opinion . GF will not be able to get new A/C ....

and GF future is unknown

what i know management they did not send an e-mail to the crew i mean not us Airbus pilots , i mean 767 pilot to let them know whats going on or at least inform them breiflly about what will happen to the rosters . and so on

GULF AIR management they are not able to maintain operation and maintinace at the sametime they wait for something to happen either inspection or other things

[LOC GREEN]

This reminded me of the structural failure on April 28, 1988 of a 19 year old Boeing 737, operated by Aloha airlines... Gulf Air would've been in a bigger problem if such a thing happened... good they grounded them!!!

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Aircraft/Aircraft.htm (http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Aircraft/Aircraft.htm)

[ironbutt57]

I'm sure the plan will be put to us pilots once the status of all the aircraft is ascertained... better that way, than minute to minute changes right??? Give them half a chance!!

[surely not]

There is a rumour around of 6 x A330 being leased in to help cover the operational shortfall. No idea as to how accurate the rumour is as it is at least 4th hand by the time it reached me :}

[aviacao]

Yes, ALL 767 on the ground! Does anybody know Emirates HR email?:\

[ironbutt57]

be there or be square Billy Boy's tonite..or whenever:} maybe they would invite us to have the bonfire in the hangar:} :} :ok:

[surely not]

Maybe the new slogan is:-


'If it's a Boeing, I'm not going'

[LOC GREEN]

'If it's a Boeing, I'm not going'

then stay home :rolleyes:

it is the time for all 767 guys to be transfered to the 340 and 330...

GOOD LUCK FOR ALL A320 PILOTS :ugh:

[ironbutt57]

These airplanes aren't dead and buried yet, far from it ..:ok:

[LOC GREEN]

ironbutt57,


The structural failure on April 28, 1988 of a 19 year old Boeing 737, Aloha Airlines!!! do you remember this???
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Aircraft/images/Aloha.jpg (http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Aircraft/Aloha.htm)

[robert3791]

I was told by gamco they were not doing maintenance work for GF anymore ?:confused:

[ironbutt57]

Yes remember that vividly, and the silly-ass made for TV movie about it later with Connie Selleca as the f.o. (now capt)..as they said over and over again and again...

[left_to_first_class]

Latest news on the B767 is that the fleet is grounded until further notice.
GF will only be flying Airbus for the next month and maybe beyond if the B767 are not fixed.

[Ray Darr]

What does Gulf Air's CEO or Flight Operations VP (?) say about all of this mess?

[jimmyhagendas]

Yes what does VPO say about this ?
Havent heard anything from the management about the situation,so f...n typically with this airline no info what so ever.

[left_to_first_class]

Typically senior management. No news at all on this, even an internal memo. Surely its only a matter of time before the press get hold of this and GF becomes front-page news in the GCC ?

Doesn't take a genius to work out something is wrong if you see flight after flight showing cancelled at BAH airport.

Just feel sorry for the pax, at the end of the day if it weren't for them we wouldn't be flying anywhere.

[tbaylx]

Boy the rumour network is really in full swing.

The aircraft are grounded pending an inspection, if the results are negative we could have a few back in the next week.

What is happening is that as the aircraft get rotated up to Dublin where our heavy maintenance is being done by SR Techics, they are discovering a few problems. 3 of the 4 aircraft they've seen up there have had some rather sever corrosion issues. The first aircraft is pretty near finished being repaired sheetmetal wise, it's been there since November. Since they are finding similar corrosion on several of the fleet they've decided in coordination with Boeing to inspect the whole fleet for similar corrosion, and have grounded the fleet of 9 aircraft until teh inspections are carried out.

This will take a bit as it will involve NDT (likely xray/eddycurrent inspections for min thickness etc).

To make matters a bit worse they've found a cracked landing gear on one of the a/c during the C checks as well, so now need to do some swaps.

Anyway the way things work around here it could take a week or a year to sort it out. No news at all from management other than a note from rostering about pending changes to the schedule. In the meantime it'll suck losing the duty pay, but as long as the main paychecks keep coming sit back and enjoy the BBQ weather and cold beers.

Either way they are going to get hurt on this one and its going to cost someone alot of Dinars to sort it out.

[ttg22]

it would be nice to see a memo.....i guess the fax machines don't work from pet pong.....swaadi cap boys

gf boys check the gf150 crew on bkk on the 27th........:ugh: :cool:

[Panama Jack]

Guys, check your AIMS for "Messages from Crewing."

Nothing terribly revealing however it is an official communique from the Company.

[tbaylx]

That's a message from rostering saying they have no idea what's going on and they are going to try and come up with a new schedule over the next few days..hardly the official communique we were thinking of. It'll be in the GDN tommorow though i suppose i'll read it there.:)

[Panama Jack]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I will be looking for the GDN also. I guess it will take me 5 minutes to read the "rag" instead of the usual 3. :}

[CG11]

Guys ,

GF has not got a management , this company works on daily basis,

VPO, HOFO, CP767, ACP767, Other part of this useless management , they even did not bother them selves to write a memo about what is happining and what is the steps that they will take now , the matter is not B767 are grounded but the problem if they fix it for how long will stay in the service because it is a wake up call B767 will not be able to work 24\7 with 55min on GRD because they will fix it but it will not be a new A/C they will not make it new .... mr management want to see someone profissional tell us what will happen ..

i feel bad about this cause B767 pilots were flying unsafe A/C and it will continue . :ouch: do you guys fel safe .

by the way i heared new SO will start TRG. WAW

guys maybe few A/C be back to service after few weeks or days but i am sure it is not safe 100% to be flown .. let us see this unprofisional management what they will do

i am not insulting management but it is fact, people lifes , pilots who do not know if they will fly safe home or no .... come on

[gulfair_sexy]

VPO on block to bangkok ( 50hrs lay over ) with his best friend.+ a poor F/O...and rest resting at home......:D

[DesertHawk]

Kind of sad a major carrier is in a situation like this. Shows a complete lack of communication and leadership from within. you wonder if the board will finally realize that the people running the place are needin some serious overhaul..... maybe??? anyways see what happens my bet is overload on the airbus fleets for 3-6 months

[JoeJack]

Well, definitely sad developments for the company, especially with our VPO (assisted by HOGO) on the run in a 55 hour rest BKK block. Also CPA340 leaving tomorrow night to BKK. As mentioned before, no official communication from OPS, apart from Wyatt Earp`s message in AIMS.
Maybe our colleague Jackbauer, who is always in the know of stuff to come, with a quite optimistic point of view, could shed some light on what`s being planned (if anything) in the Pink Palace.
Safe (Keep an extra eye guys!!!) Flights!!!:ok:
JJ

[GF-A330]

Some pics from DUB, thanks to Mark D.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p53/AerLingus747/DUBLINGulf.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p53/AerLingus747/DUBLINGulfAir.jpg

[BahrainLad]

Gosh...a plane in a hangar...never seen one of those before! :ugh:

(Looks very clean though. Are you sure it's GF?)

[surely not]

Am I the only one who thinks CG11 is a little bit silly?

The 767 fleet is grounded because SR Technic have taken responsible action and grounded the fleet because they have found some potentially serious problems. Further to that their inspections have also shown a cracked undercarriage leg (unreported heavy landing perhaps?) and this is being dealt with.

So why will the a/c be unsafe when they come back on line CG11? It seems to me that SRTechnic have demonstrated they are willing to make difficult calls if they find problems, and not allow themselves to hide bad news under the carpet.

I think it is really disappointing that the senior management are reported on here as taking off to far flung places at a time when their support is needed back in Bahrain, and without even an official communication to their staff it appears.

Safe flying everyone

[bus787]

yes I agree.SR technic finally doing the job Gamco should have been doing.Wy all buses full of ADD and MDD?? cause before for our maintance nothing was worth writing.TEST OK .Please report further.This is all they could write.Engineers onlt tought how to read MEL.dont even try to check the prob.:ugh:
Seems we are in 4 a SHOCK !! any corroded BUS??:ugh:

[bus787]

Read GDN.Gulfair taking initiative to ground aircraft due Safety.Should read.GULF AIR instructed to ground aircraft by SR Technics.
Corrosion doesnt casue any immediate threat to safety.How GDN guys and GF managment decided this ??On what basis can u decide corrosion doesnt cause a threat to safety.:ugh: :ugh: :D

[CG11]

2 to 3 A/C will be back online within 10-14 days ... and 1 maybe with 7 days.. this is what i heared from the Guy in OPS

so, so far newspaper wrote about the 767, but still Management they are still looking for someone who can write a story to make pilots beleive it because in the newspaper people might belive it but pilots in GF will not ....... and so far i did not even se a single memo from B767 office or the management ... why is it sooooooooooooo bad that they even can not tell us what is going on ... i am not sure but this information 2 or more A/C will stop from service because it is unsafe .

now .... i know how GF works ....... all the upgrades, fleet transfar A320 to 330 /340 B767 to 330/340 and other things will freez for few months because the can not plan . CPA340 and MFT340 doing KTM training why they do not send Senior training Capt to do the training and then they operate with other crew not them and then they have to train others , they do not fly much but at this time they are flying why and i do not know if VPO and HOGO and one FO are flying to BKK ,

[CG11]

What is the plan for the B767 and one proffisional capt in this management who is P.M.

[2lowgear]

Maybe I should have taken up that offer to move the 340. As much as we complain, when push comes to shove, it doesn't matter what we fly as long as the paychecks keep coming. Been on the streets twice before...... and it ain't a nice place to be.

[CG11]

2lowgear

i do agree with you i but i lost my job because they had to stop the service so i do not want to se this with others

the thing is to br safe thats it .... but if they promiss they have to do it .

they promised me to do my ccq in march now they told me UFN -TBN

[Ray Darr]

Sorry guys but I am rather confused here....who is really running the show at GF??? The person who is responsible for things there in Operations had apparently left on holidays on the eve of the shut-down of the entire fleet??

"Baffled" is one word I would think might describe how that seems. There may be other ways to describe it.

Sounds like some people in comfy seats in your top brass are about to have a hard landing of their own??

And on top of that, you are about to lose one of the best people there who does his best for the pilots (the Head of Flight Ops?)?? Sounds like he is walking out of a mess that had no part of his doings. Good choice he's leaving, from what people are saying.

Good luck all. :ugh:

[CG11]

i just read an artical about oman air which it was published early this year and i read it now in one of the subjects which it was open in this site.

Oman GOV. increased the shairs in Oman Aviation ( Oman Air ) to reach 80% wich means almost fully supported by the goverment .... and the rumours are that they are planing to withdrew from GF .. they might withdrew but it will take them time cause they have to establish the company first oman air at present time they can not compet other airline.

they have a right to withdrew because look now GF management they are not acting proffisional , they have to do a big meeting including the boared members so they hava to know if we decided to change the flleet by now we had other aircraft and few 767 which we were going under less pressure but were are they , BKK/ KTM Training / few guys are in the office . i am not sure if this guys will go under investigation or no because they shoud knew all this problems with 767 or other flet VP technical is reporting to VPO am i write , then whats wrong . with all my respect locals should not be in the management . because they do not care . and they care if they retire how much they will get. and they want the position for a show. i am so and so..... with all my respect i know most of locals are excellent and they are proffisional but i mean the one in the management

[Zenj]

Gulf Air temporarily grounds 767 fleet for maintenance checks
Kerry Ezard, London (01Mar07, 10:42 GMT, 231 words)

Middle East carrier Gulf Air has temporarily grounded its Boeing 767-300ER fleet for maintenance checks after discovering traces of corrosion on one of the aircraft.

Gulf Air says the corrosion was detected during a regular maintenance check, and the carrier has for safety reasons ordered an “immediate and thorough check of all aircraft of the same type” in its fleet.

The airline has warned passengers that this could lead to “significant delays” while aircraft are re-positioned in its network, but notes that the 767s are expected to return to service “within the next few days”.

Gulf Air operates a fleet of nine 767-300ERs, mainly on routes to the Indian sub-continent and the Far East. The carrier says it has offered alternative travel arrangements to passengers affected by the grounding, including “as a last resort” travel with other airlines.

“We have made this decision in line with our ‘safety first’ philosophy,” says Gulf Air head of corporate affairs Reem Antoon. “An initial evaluation by the technical team indicates that within the next few days the 767s should gradually return to service.”

Gulf Air earlier this month reaffirmed its commitment to replacing its 767 fleet, stating that it would introduce new aircraft “progressively in accordance with market demand and commercial constraints”.

The Bahrain-based carrier, which also operates Airbus A320s, A330s and A340s, has not indicated the type of aircraft it plans to introduce.

[runway in use]

can anyone write or say what did it say??

[gulfair_sexy]

ALL B767 WILL BE IN SERVICE AT 24 MARCH 07........that is the latest.......calm down boys.......no XFR to A340 /A330.........A340 taking over KTM blocks....we just done sim training for TR CAPT, startted from yesterday.:ok: :D

[Icarus]

Aircraft available for use in the Company's fleet reduced by 25%. Over three weeks to restore normal operational capability.

I don't know what's " :ok: :D " about that!

[left_to_first_class]

An email sent out by Ops.

There is a plan to cover the next 3-4 days, until 5Mar.
This involved a number of cancellations (e.g. KUL, JKT), aircraft downgrades and timing changes.

Post 5Mar, the situation is a bit murky as engineering believe that some of the B767's can be in operation within 2 weeks as the corrosion is treatable and does not require a new part from Boeing.


Gulfsexy - I am led to believe that A340 can't do a KTM for some operational restriction.

Oh, Andre Dose is coming down to the Pink Palace on Sunday. Should be interesting !!

Keep Flying :D

[gulfair_sexy]

No retraction on A340 Opreating into KTM. Check GF404/409 mct-ktm-bah , flight already landed and departed back........training going on , for KTM ops. BOYS ON B767, stop dreaming XFRING to A340/A330, it is still early.:confused: :ugh: :ok:

[gimmesumvalium]

Been trying to avoid the 340 for years!

[gimmesumvalium]

340 started the KTM operation years ago, then had a landing gear prob with the tight turn on the RW (prob was rectified). Now RW has a turning node to take a 777-300 (Thai Inter runs 773 into KTM), - so no prob.

[CG11]

hi guys this is my reply to gulfair sexy

well i am flying A330, what do you mean by no transfer to 330 or 340 for 767 guys , who are you to decide , do you think you are the best we all flying an aircraft not because you are flying 330 or 340 ..you might were straggling maybe to get 330 or 340 rating thats why you se your self high , i was flying a turboprop and i got A330 it is not so difficult for 767 to fly 330 or 340 and why you are saying the they are dreaming well in gulf air because it is so F**** ** company with a small number of A/C yes you have to show off well in other company who cares if you fly 330 or 340 or 777,
if 767 flet downsizing i am saying ((( IF)) then they have to transfer them and by the way i heared that 4 fos will start their course in March, and i heared more to come if i am right but you are part of this managemnt .. then tell me if i am right or wrong ..

most of my friends applied for flet transfer and i hope to se them on A340 or 330.

by the way go and do KTM mr. perfect.

[Left Coaster]

Actually the newspaper article was misleading...It's a lot worse than stated. Corrosion trace? Try imminent skin and structural failure in one tail number. Galleys and Lavs leaked so badly and went unrepaired for so long that one of the fleet, and possibly two may never return to service...watch your six guys, this is serious, the insurance guys are due in BAH shortly...I also hear the head of MTCE for GF is through. Other problems exist in that dept as well, but covered up by senior mgmnt... and DGCAM went along with it...extensions past inspection due dates etc. Not a fun place anymore, and kinda glad to be gone...be safe guys, don't take any crap from the pleading Ops crowd...you know: where they BEG you to operate "as without you the flight will be cancelled!:=

[gimmesumvalium]

Yeah, CG11, am also wondering who's pussy GF_Sexy is?

[gimmesumvalium]

Heve also herd that one aircraft had three (3) elevetor jams laat on descent & company kept it flying. Heard on weves that Boeing Searvice Bulletin was not made.

[ODMEA]

Hi all, lifetime gold GF FF here and after reading this thread I was busting to say something.... I'm a veteran of doing business in the ME....I will say it in all honesty that the male work ethic in the GCC can be deplorable....my experience has been with ground staff, front line airline staff and cabin crew. GF have the clearly self destroying rule of only GCC national males allowed to apply for cabin crew posts..and guess what - the males are absolutely useless in most cases. Even the local Arab pilot who comes and plonks himself in an empty F class seat...turns on his monitor for the sake of turning it on - not even watching it! and reading light on during a night flight disturbing paying premium SLEEPING pax.....all while crew rest is empty! I've seen this on two occasions recently. GF has such great potential but need to adopt the QR EK and EY (to lesser extent) polices of sufficient western staff or capable local staff in key posts.

I have NO reason to doubt this same uselessness I speak of is present in the "pink palace" I often gawk at when put up in Movenpick while in transit...and wonder how many locals are waiting for their monthly check sitting idly at their desks...I'd also LOVE to record the amount of times the word 'enshallah' and 'mafi mushkilla' are used in that place!

My thoughts go out to those GF crew and staff members who rival those of any other 1st rate carrier...they are inevitably let down by the 'rotten apples' in the box. GF wake up and smell the roses....for the EXACT same reasons u employed a western CEO, those reasons must be adopted company wide and the locals have nobody to blame but themselves and their poor work ethic. I do acknowledge, however, there are a few local staff I have encountered who I take my hat off to. (Mostly Female)

Now it's reached the point of safety and something has to be done! Not only from crew and staff viewpoints but also from us loyal premium pax who keep those guys in the palace all employed. I'm seriously considering shifting to EK or EY. I'm actually in negotiation with both carriers to have my loyalty honored with either of the two, then I'm shifting if I see no improvement on GF's part....and for the first time of 12 years with GF I do feel my life is at risk not due to ability but due to choice (or lack thereof) and complacency,......sad but true. I hope the 'royalty' living in the 'palace' understand their mini empire can easily crumble if this 'management' style continues!

:hmm::*:cool::rolleyes:

PS I'd be most delighted for a GF staff member to hand this post to someone who cares in the "palace"...wishful thinking it will cause at least a ripple?:ugh:

[tupelov154]

Imagine, you are a sheik. You have luxury yachts, assortment of vehicles from lunar rovers to Ferraris, beautiful sandy beaches with warm inviting waters. You never have to travel to Manama international airport because you have your own airfield with your own airline with aircraft to suit every occasion, including one dedicated to the ‘mile high club’ Aircraft to put some national fleets to shame.

Unfortunately the imperial leather was placed to many times the wrong way up and has been the cause of to many slippery forays. Now it’s time to pay the cost! Gulfair are pretty much the only thing that keeps Bahrain on the map. It’s made many a man rich and, your local fake watch seller in the souk would spit in his grave if he thought gulfair would disappear into obscurity. I will from now on refer to gulfair in lower case and gfa. So too, some of the best guys and crews in the company are looking at possible extinction. I will not the harbinger of doom but doom it will be for the poor sod that just joined the 767 fleet and doesn’t have the required hours to do contracting or other whoring work. For others it will be the opportunity they where looking for! The partying in the back of the aircraft has spoiled the fun for future slave traders.

It was made clear to gfa over 3 months ago that the corrosion on one of its aircraft was beyond limits and was grounded indefinitely, possibly written off for good on a ‘c’ check in Ireland, with only major airframe work returning to service, also that the rest of the fleet were probably in the same condition. Gfa have been trying to avoid the inevitable by sourcing out the c checks to other more ‘amiable’ engineering firms. Fortunately somebody blew the whistle and as a result the truth has now come out possibly saving the lives of at least 2 good men.

The little fat batard that kept throwing his die cast gfa 767 into the swimming pool has now realized that running an airline is no longer a sport. Rather than trade endurance horses, play desert golf, exchange Moroccan prostitutes, collect Falcons, be pimp to Saudi fun seeking royalty, and play ‘airline’ you should consider the effect of neglect and idleness that it has on thousands of lives in the kingdom. Your less than 100,000 barrels of oil a year just pays for you own private aircraft. The nation that started its well intentioned move into first world business 40 years ago ahead of other gulf states has seriously lost it’s impetuous in the last 15 years. It won’t matter about the fancy welcome to Bahrain propaganda videos you show on the flagship fleet if your modern office blocks remain empty. Manama is already disappearing into the filthy dust that no amount of landscaping can remove.

The only way to save gfa from becoming a small has been airline and keep growth stimulated in Bahrain is to stop playing God, realize your own failures and sell 51% to a western management team that will work efficiently to grow their wealth and values into the airline business. Values? Well that’s the question, stop interfering with the private lives of westerners, you can’t expect to attract investment into hypocrisy! And get a beach other than your own! It’s long term thinking, don’t let your sons become Saudi slaves!

yours,

[gulfair_sexy]

CG11......why you so high..... i do not have a problem.....i am a capt on A340/A330 for long, not a f/o . secondly we have to respect a sr people , not to let jr people jump ahead of que.......so calm down ..i did not ment the boys on 767 not deserve to fly A340/A330.....flying the machine it is not so difficault......so lean your language := :mad:

[Jockofthebushveld]

Respect is earned, Respect and you will be respected.!!!

Works 2 ways sr or not !!!

Get back to 767 problem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:ugh:

[tupelov154]

The problems at gfa go far beyond a little tail corrosion as stated by our dubious passenger. How do you know so much about gfa mr gfa client?

[left_to_first_class]

ODMEA - you are spot on.

The issue with GF is that we have too many nationals just not doing anything. And it does not get better the higher you go in the organisation, infact the useless ones are those with Manager/Head/VP title.
There is a small percentage who are truely professionals and will work hard for the airline, even if it means working in their own personal time. But unfortunately these are in a small minority. The vast treat GF as a pastime (many have other interests) and only want the pension and staff travel.

Just see the going's on in the morning. You can see people coming in, stop the car, swipe in and then off - and not to their desk.
And you know its 2 O'clock on a Thursday as you can see the traffic jam to exit the pink palace. Walk around at 2.15pm on a Thursday and all you see is a few nationals (mainly shift workers or those dedicated as mentioned above) and expat staff.

So if this is the atitude of the HQ staff, does this not trickle down the chain to nationals working elsewhere, including ensuring the planes are safe to operate ?

Back to the B767 issue !

All 767's grounded until 24th March. Some have bad corrosion and will be in the hangar in DUB UFN.
Others may get fixed but will be used as back-up.

This is a very serious time for GF. It will be only a matter of time before the wider world hears about this and then you hit this period of passengers asking is it really safe to fly GF ? Then plane's fly empty and you are forced to put out cheap fares to fill and you get full planes but making no money.

[CG11]

No retraction on A340 Opreating into KTM. Check GF404/409 mct-ktm-bah , flight already landed and departed back........training going on , for KTM ops. BOYS ON B767, stop dreaming XFRING to A340/A330, it is still early.:confused: :ugh: :ok:

(THIS is your way of writing we discuss about 767 and you are talking about fleet transfer)

if you are senior Capt. or Jr. capt i do not care, you have to respect what do you mean ( stop dreaming ) well you wrote before you are part of the useless management ( are you the chapeeeeeeeeeee and with side hair mr H.,

you did not say if what i wrote is true or not . you are talking about respect , i am not getting high i M NORMAL PERSON I READ your lovely

writing , you were X GRD ENGE. or no

back to 767 subject

[Spirit]

Stop fighting, guys!!!
We are all in this together, and the friends flying the busses should just be thankful, their planes haven't been around long enough for something like this to happen.
The fact is: GF just haven't got the maintenanceculture, that these planes were designed to be surrounded by, be that Boeing or Airbus.
That more than half of the staff in the Pink Palace could be gone tomorrow...with all the work still being done, that's another issue, which maybe belongs to a thread of it's own.
If anyone would bark over 767 guys getting on the 340 in front of other guys, then don't forget also to bark over 340 guys getting a 767 command in front of others.
Most of us had a choice of fleet, when we joined. For better and for worse...but right now it's just for worse.
Does anybody really think, our situation is ever going to improve down here, by fighting each other, at times when solidarity is needed?
Keep our focus on the ball, fellas..

[Sinbad1]

3 76's grounded. lease in's to cover shortfall. Thank GAMCO maintainance!

:= to your response

There are some facts which should be known with regards to GF fleet maintenance arrangement with GAMCO. GAMCO are no longer responsible for the GF fleet maintenance, SRT Switzerland are.This arrangement has taken place since the contract was signed on the 23rd of March or shortly thereafter (see write-up below from SRT Archive News). GF representative ruled Gamco with an iron fist, everything done or not at Gamco was under the specific instruction of GF. Interestingly, now the GF rep in Bahrain will not be allowed to enter the SRT office unless he knocks on the door! Well, what goes around comes around. I can tell you, when the confirmation of the GF/SRT deal surfaced there was a celebration and relief not only among the management of Gamco and the hangar staff but especially on the line. Believe me, I was there. Soon after the signing celebration party was over and everyone was sober, the Swiss saw the status of some of the GF aircraft - only then they realised what kind of deal they got themselves into!!.I will not write what the Swiss impressions were.
Having said all that, I can tell you for a fact that since the Swiss took over the maintenance contract the GF fleet is now how it should be.

Zurich/London-Stansted/Dublin, March 23, 2006
SR Technics Holding (“SR Technics”) has signed a Memorandum Of
Understanding (MOU) with Gulf Air, which will see SR Technics
assume total technical management for Gulf Air’s entire fleet of 34
aircraft and the phase-in of new aircraft types in a contract valued at
USD750 million over five years. In addition, the parties intend to
establish an aircraft maintenance and technical training joint venture
based in the Sultanate of Oman.

[tupelov154]

Imagine, you are a sheik. You have luxury yachts, assortment of vehicles from lunar rovers to Ferraris, beautiful sandy beaches with warm inviting waters. You never have to travel to Manama international airport because you have your own airfield with your own airline with aircraft to suit every occasion, including one dedicated to the ‘mile high club’ Aircraft to put some national fleets to shame.

Unfortunately the imperial leather was placed to many times the wrong way up and has been the cause of to many slippery forays. Now it’s time to pay the cost! Gulfair are pretty much the only thing that keeps Bahrain on the map. It’s made many a man rich and, your local fake watch seller in the souk would spit in his grave if he thought gulfair would disappear into obscurity. I will from now on refer to gulfair in lower case and gfa. So too, some of the best guys and crews in the company are looking at possible extinction. I will not the harbinger of doom but doom it will be for the poor sod that just joined the 767 fleet and doesn’t have the required hours to do contracting or other whoring work. For others it will be the opportunity they where looking for! The partying in the back of the aircraft has spoiled the fun for future slave traders.

It was made clear to gfa over 3 months ago that the corrosion on one of its aircraft was beyond limits and was grounded indefinitely, possibly written off for good on a ‘c’ check in Ireland, with only major airframe work returning to service, also that the rest of the fleet were probably in the same condition. Gfa have been trying to avoid the inevitable by sourcing out the c checks to other more ‘amiable’ engineering firms. Fortunately somebody blew the whistle and as a result the truth has now come out possibly saving the lives of at least 2 good men.

The little fat batard that kept throwing his die cast gfa 767 into the swimming pool has now realized that running an airline is no longer a sport. Rather than trade endurance horses, play desert golf, exchange Moroccan prostitutes, collect Falcons, be pimp to Saudi fun seeking royalty, and play ‘airline’ you should consider the effect of neglect and idleness that it has on thousands of lives in the kingdom. Your less than 100,000 barrels of oil a year just pays for you own private aircraft. The nation that started its well intentioned move into first world business 40 years ago ahead of other gulf states has seriously lost it’s impetuous in the last 15 years. It won’t matter about the fancy welcome to Bahrain propaganda videos you show on the flagship fleet if your modern office blocks remain empty. Manama is already disappearing into the filthy dust that no amount of landscaping can remove.

The only way to save gfa from becoming a small has been airline and keep growth stimulated in Bahrain is to stop playing God, realize your own failures and sell 51% to a western management team that will work efficiently to grow their wealth and values into the airline business. Values? Well that’s the question, stop interfering with the private lives of westerners, you can’t expect to attract investment into hypocrisy! And get a beach other than your own! It’s long term thinking, don’t let your sons become Saudi slaves!

yours,

[gulfair_sexy]

CG11.................Thanks to GF for opening the world of aviation to you , by giving you A330 rating after you was flying a turboprop. Yesterday joined want to give a right for other in fleet transfer.....no:= , as i said i am not against any one here, but at the end we have to respect SR People in transfering the fleet:ugh: . As i said B767 will be on line from 24 march onwards.......every one relax:ok: i do not need to show off.....and i know who i am.....showing of it is yours:mad: , just read your privious post and see who was showing off ( i am flying A330:yuk: )

[Jockofthebushveld]

Gulfair sexy - you are a complete Jack..ass Do you realise it?
You are the type of fool that has only been in GF where all of us bring experience to the table !Wonder why EK dont allow locals to fly together , well now we know with such an arrogant ****.
Listen GF most definatly did not open the world of aviation to us, Neither did we all just join with Turbo prop hrs, Is a Herc 130-L100 comand ok?When you showed up with cherokee comand time!! Then 737, and 767s?? Dude you flew pisscats before you joined GF with no airline experience world background.Please you make us laugh
STOP BLOWING YOU HORN GET BACK TO 767 ISSUE,
Had to write this because you work on my nerves !!! Sorry guys

[left_to_first_class]

Can we steer this back to the B767's please ?

Ok, I did my bit of ear-bashing about nationals, and so have a few others - time to move on (or start another thread if the moderator allows it).

:ok:

[CG11]

so, all the crew will set at home with no additional allowance . only fix allowance and baisic salary and it is not your mistake ....

they should think about paying technical allowance .


B767 future ?
who is responsable for all this problems .

[Sinbad1]

:p I am astonished at the way this thread started concerning the grounding of the B767, and how it has progressed from fleet grounding, and then to fleet swapping, exchange of insults, to attacks on the locals.
Quite frankly I think the discussion should be reserved to the 767 grounding impact on your livelihood and the future of the 767 pilots.
Some major defect history for those pilots who flew the 747 classic & 747 400 - how the pylon pin shearing affected the aircraft which caused the El Al crash, or the mode 41 cracking, or the 737 rudder actuator and those who flew 320, 330 & 340 should be very familiar with rib 5 & rib 6 cracking. I remember how Airbus went into chaos mode not knowing what to do when they didn't even have sufficient parts or tools to carry out the repairs. I never heard or saw a pilot raging with insults against Airbus or their company management, or against the locals for that matter. If I had 1 dinar for every aircraft which had a major maintenance defect, I would have retired by now.
I think all of you guys should take a deep breath and salam :p alaykum.

[point8four]

Boys... and I use the term as intended,,,,,

Nobody here really cares if you fly a kite or the shuttle. You're missing the point and totally evading the issue at hand.

Please can we return to the thread and supply a little constructive input.

Shanks very mush!

[divingduck]

quote: i can tell by now from which background u r?????
my friend you do not like it leave it......why you accepted to work for arab ? go back to your country and relax there. endquote

Gee haven't heard that for a while:rolleyes:

I was interested in reading about the 767 problems, couldn't we just concentrate on that?

[Hummingbird]

VPOps? Do we have one? :confused:

[CG11]

Hi

Mr. VPO is back from BKK and his friend HOGO i wonder why VPO and his Friend were involved in ............... it was lesson for them but i think they do not care maybe they are supported .

because passanger life it is not a game , and crew life as well.

i stopped my family to fly on GF flights

and i got a job with other airline in middle east . i was happy to be with GFA but they are not proffisional .

767 pilots are they going to stay at home UFN or even if they bring 3 A/C in service still they will not fly much.

good luck guys with GF for me i will leave by few months from now .

767 future is unknown , for gulfair sexy enjoy 330/ 340 .

if one senior management staff were flying 767 they would mantain the A/C ..

[ironbutt57]

Why dont u ladies just go to Jet Blast with your whining and leave this thread on topic please??? Thanks:ok:

[LOC GREEN]

very funny :}
I don't think there is much to say about the grounded 767 fleet... just wait and see!!! unless you heard something ironbutt57!!!?? :zzz:

[Sinbad1]

:=

This website is not really for people to slag each other, I could appreciate that some of the remarks made by other PPRUNE members on this thread might have been offensive toward the locals or GF Management or taken the wrong way. At the end of the day if you do not have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. As for some remarks from the locals might have upset some of the expats "If you do not like it go home", I wonder how many times I heard the Brits, Aussies or the Europeans say the same thing to foreigners in their countries!!!!! The world is a very small place, especially the aviation world.
Lets kiss and make up alright!!?? We are all grown ups and professionals.

Incidentally any news with regards to the grounded B767 status??? does any one know what is actually caused this situation?? No Rumours please just fact.

[inflames]

;) Jackbaur says: 3 76's grounded. lease in's to cover shortfall. Thank GAMCO maintainance!
can you tell us when we can ever smell anything other than bullS**t from your corner? It's denial like yours that's got gf into this mess!
Let's face it boys there has been some huge cover up on this, it should be investigated, although I know it wont be, and management will come out smelling of roses! Unfortunatly we can discuss whether coffee or pee caused the corrosion till the pigs come home, but fundamentally it does go beyond corrosion physics and down to people. However directly involved, a large amount of people responsible for managing the aircraft maintenance has been involved in short term and poor descision making. this is from desk managers and line inspectors. Now we can really see lack of proffesionalism. Not failing to carry your hat with you, or that famous 'brining the company's name into disrepute' line

The corrosion started a long time ago with management that evades culpability for anything.

I feel sorry for the senior F/O's who are now going to lose there commands/seniority. You will all see there are lots of possibilities.

Anyone can give me the identity of JB? PM me! I will gladly make sure he will have to invest in the same technology as Stephan Hawking to air his rubbish here again.

[CG11]

well let see how much they will inject well they did it before , but where is the moneny . lets face the problem and talk facts not just an anger talk .
GF will never improve all the good managers will leave, AQP manager, HOFO, well i do not know if Sanje will leave but i saw him and he is nice person. who left few proffisional and thats it,

A330/340 CP he is very unproffisional , i went to se him once and he is not welcoming us why, and he is picky, and need to go under a course for att.

well then tell me who will be left , GF unfortunatly going from airline with 57years in the market to an airline with 57days in the market and down in africa.
GF need to change all the ops. managers and heads as well as VPs

[LOC GREEN]

CG11,
Correction to your information; AQP manager is staying, he withdrawn his resignation recently.... I am sure this airline will be back on it feet again very soon :ok: , I’ve seen it in a worse situation before…. you don't have to worry about GF that much…. (you are leaving anyway!!!!!)

[CG11]

well i am not worried about GF but i am worried about the people down their who are working with this company and they have a families and they came from other countries or even locals they will be affected . am i right ,
yes i will leave and thanks to GF because they gave me the rating for free.
if you saw this company worse than this satuation well good for you then you saw people been kicked out ( this is the right word to be use) and they had families and who was CEO he was bahraini am i right

i have nothing to worry about Mr. for me at the end of the day will go home but i need 5 years . i am honest , but SOME of locals they are using skills to talk to the higher people than them because they think they may be fired . 767 it is maybe a big issue because i never saw such a currabtion in my entire life . nether in Europe or Canada . with my respect to you and all locals

Enjoy staying in GF and let see when you guys transfering your PAX to other airline and they see good service they will change their mind and go to other airline ENJOY GF and GOOD LUCK GF

[sheryas777]

This is latest news announced today,,you may report the case to this person,
Qoute

Mahmood Hashem Al Kooheji the Deputy Chief Executive Officer of Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company (Mumtalakat) has been appointed as Deputy Chairman of the Gulf Air Board of Directors.

In addition, Jawad Habib Jawad has been appointed as a new member of the board. The board also includes two other members from Bahrain, Khalid Omar Al Rumaihi and Michael Wette representing the Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Co. Gulf Air Board of Directors consists of eight members split equally between the Sultanate of Oman and the Kingdom of Bahrain.
Unqoue
TT

[Sinbad1]

:ok:

Some of you might know this very well and some of you might not.
When an aircraft comes to the hangar especially for a heavy check, the first thing the operator tells the maintenance organisation and the hangar chief to his engineers "We need to get this out (airplane) as quickly as possible". Or when the aircraft is on the line "we do not want to have a delay". Pressure from day one. It is not only operators but MROs, engineers and quality assurance department are all guilty. The system relies on each other. Ultimately the decision lies on how much b:mad: lls does the supervisor engineer have to not cave in to the pressure. After decades in this industry I don't get pushed easily and I don't hesitate in grounding an aircraft when ever I think it is appropriate to do so. I sleep very well every night. We can all set a standard or not. It is our choice to do the right thing by the operators and the passengers no matter what position we hold. The Civil Aviation Auth are the biggest hypocrites of all. They come up with all fancy courses such as Human factor and so forth but in reality they overlook if the flight crew scheduling is in compliance with the human factor acceptable level or not, or whether the engineering staff are actually sufficient to maintain the amount of aircraft they are handling. The only time the CAA take note when there is smoke at the end of the runway.
My question is, how was this corrosion found this time?? What is the period between the corrosion discovery and the last C check?? Was it known before?? and what actions have been taken to rectify it?? Was the repair, if any, carried out as per Boeing SRM or the corrosion cleaned up as per the Boeing CPCP program? or any other Structural Dev Engineer recommendation?? If the extent of the corrosion is way beyond the limit a few months back, who made the decision to release the aircraft and sign the CRS?? If I was in Quality of GF or the CAA, I assure you heads would roll. My advice to GF engineering, quality assurance dept and airline management (ops) is to sit down and work out serious auditing procedures in the hangar as well as constant surveillance during the hangar check. If the aircraft has gone for C check abroad, then the liaison engineer that accompanied the aircraft abroad should have his bu :mad: tt kicked if he knew anything about this. He may not realise it, but he cost a lot of people their jobs and the airline a lot of losses.I do not have to work for GF to care about this issue.This is serious because I or my family, or my friends would use GF to fly in the future.

Please please please stop arguing and taunting each other and go back to the 767.

[LOC GREEN]

well i am not worried about GF but i am worried about the people down their who are working with this company and they have a families and they came from other countries or even locals they will be affected . am i right

CG11,
Thanks for your concerns, but GF don't hire people to fire them… this paranoia that you have probably the reason why you have these negative thoughts and the reason why you are leaving GF.... anyway good luck to you and hope you get better soon and this does not cause you a problem with your new job!!!

Regards,

LG

[CG11]

you saw people been kicked out ( this is the right word to be use) and they had families and who was CEO he was bahraini am i right


i wote this as well,

i want to make sure about this thing as well and i am waiting for your reply LOC GREN,

well for me i think 767 issue is big and they should investigate am i right ,

hope all 767 pilots get an allowance , well it will not go to my packet the money , for me i can not live with my basic salary cause i am paying loans , as well may be few of 767 pilots paying loans , and this issue stopping them from making money.

see guys . will fly for few days

[LOC GREEN]

you saw people been kicked out ( this is the right word to be use) and they had families and who was CEO he was bahraini am i right

CG11,
Stop hanging around with cabin crew... Yes that's true... all of them were cabin crew with bad records (probably you were not here at that time!!!) NO PILOTS been kicked out... Listen GF don't trap anybody, those trapped themselves... A piece of advice, keep a low profile and you won't get hurt (That's in any airline!!!)

Regarding the guys on 767... I don't want to be in their shoe... it is hard and those who are responsible for this mess has to be punished... we've been hearing stories about 767 corrosion sense last year but was never announced officially till all 767's got grounded!!! That mean the problem was there but somehow people in charge (whoever they are) managed to get away with it for a year!!

[Desert Diner]

This thread has gotten the boys and girls to "litteraly" start playing in the sandbox.:ugh:

CG11, the work you are looking for is "redundant".

Were you old enough to remember 1995 and the Tri-Stars?

[Sinbad1]

:D

Well, I am glad the bouts are over. lets dust our selves and have new start.

Any more news on the grounded fleet??:hmm:

[ironbutt57]

Thanks sinbad two informative posts inspections on remaining aircraft are reportedly in progress some are in/on the way to various MRO facilities and as the results become available, sure the info will come out..been tracking things on aims but dont think all the planes have been inspected yet...but the wood on the "bonfire vigil" is reportedly still burning..:}

[boiler]

Mahmood Hashem Al Kooheji the Deputy Chief Executive Officer of Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company (Mumtalakat) has been appointed as Deputy Chairman of the Gulf Air Board of Directors.


I know this guy. The biggest idiot that ever lived. No experience in airline industry whatsoever. How is it that the board of an airline consists of people with no airline experience is beyond me. If there is anybody that will bring GF to the ground, it is this guy. If you think things will get better, you are sadly mistaken.

[tbaylx]

It's amazing what supposedly proffesional pilots can degenerate a thread into here...
Alarmist attitudes aside, yes the corrosion likely should have been detected earlier, or was and was not dealt with correctly, however SR technics is now runing the show and has dealt with the issue appropriately.
The 767's are not an unsafe aircrfaft, and will likely be some of the best maintained in the fleet after coming out of these checks. In the meantime the 767 crew can catch upon their sleep and collect a paycheque while staying at home, not a bad deal. Yeah we lose 4-500 bd a month in allowances by not flying, but i'm not doing any work either, so it's fair enough i suppose.
The complete lack ofcoomunicaton and management has been the same for quite awhile, so no big suprises their. Maybe when Mr. Dosse arrives he'll be able to improve that side of it over the summer months.
In the meantime relax, let them fix the A/C up, and enjoy your time off. Your job will still be there at the end of the month if you still want it.
Not all of us want to come over and fly the Airbus. I'm quite happy on the Boeing and really have no interest in moving fleets at all, don't assume we all are wanting to bump senior 320 guys to get into that fleet.
Now....where was that beer and BBQ i had going..:)

[LOC GREEN]

Ok guys, the first A/C coming back from DUB on the 18th of this month from DUB, operated by CP767 :D (already published on AIMS)... :ok:

[Sinbad1]

:D (http://www.ameinfo.com/112406.html)
<LI class=dsp>Mahmood Hashem Al Kooheji, the Deputy CEO of the Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company, has been appointed as Deputy Chairman of the Gulf Air Board of Directors. In addition, Jawad Habib Jawad has been appointed as a new member of the board. The Gulf Air board consists of eight members, with four from Oman and four from Bahrain.
Bahrain: 6 hours, 7 minutes ago reported from the ME news net work.



for more importent issues;:ok:
As for the B767 saga, I actually feel quite bad for those people that are directly or indirectly affected by this drama Pilot or otherwise, I mean the expat. Specially those with kids, schooling and so forth. I do not actually work for GF but I know what they must be going through, Management and staff. I returned from a gulf state almost close to the Kingdom of Bahrain not long ago, I also flew with some of the B767 pilots and Airbus aircraft in that region. I could suggest to the Pilots who are worried or they may or may not be affected by this terrible situation is to make preliminary Enquire with some of the EY crew if you know any or directly with the airline on the conditions and benefits of EY. I am sure some you also know your old boss HOGGE. indicently they have B 767 on their fleet which is almost new and it is only done approx 8500 hours. It used to belong to the Royal fleet. Also you may discuss the possibility of conversion on the B777 during the interview. My experience from listening to the EY flight crew they were overall happy with the usuall occational whinge, also the fleet is almost new. my experience is there is always something is not right not matter where you go.
I hope this will help. Remember, loyalty goes both ways.
EY current vacancy if it is help www.etihadairways.com (http://www.etihadairways.com)
Currently there are 2 jobs* Click Job Title to view details

Captain A330/A340 (http://careers.etihadairways.com/ehire/english/careers/jobListing.aspx?did=1#) [CAPT]Department:Flight OperationsLocation:Abu DhabiExpiry Date:31/12/2007First Officer A330/A340 (http://careers.etihadairways.com/ehire/english/careers/jobListing.aspx?did=1#) [FOA]Department:Flight OperationsLocation:Abu DhabiExpiry Date:31/12/2007

[Bombay HF]

I believe that Hogan has banned Gulf Air pilots from joining EY though.

[tbaylx]

Don't feel bad for us 767 pilots, we still get our housing/schooling allowances and full pay. The only thing we lose out on is the months perdiems/duty allowances. It's not a bad thing to be able to spend a few weeks at home with the family during normal human hours and not flying all night, all the while getting paid. You won't hear me complaining at all. So if you want to feel sorry for us, by all means do so...i just don't think you'll find too many of the Boeing guys crying about it. As for the rest of the poor pilots who's rosters are going to get severely messed up this month, you have my sympathy. I'll have an extra cold one for you while you enjoy my Dhaka overnights :) Cheers.

[left_to_first_class]

Dear Colleague,

You may well have read in the newspapers that we have ordered an immediate and thorough check on our B767 fleet, following the detection of minute traces of possible corrosion in an area beneath the rear galley of one aircraft.

There is no denying that this will have a major impact on our operations and we have strived to be transparent with passengers and the wider public through mediums such as the Press so as to keep them abreast of developments. We now need your assistance in ensuring that further communication with our publics is handled in a professional and controlled manner and furthermore it is important we all work hard to overcome what will be a tough few weeks operationally.

It is imperative to keep things in perspective. While the planes are inoperative they have not been grounded, which is a post crisis response. This is very much a pre-emptive action and as you know we take every precaution to safeguard our passengers and aircraft.

Words like corrosion can be easily misconstrued. These were only minute traces discovered. Checks have already commenced on the other aircraft. In fact the maintenance teams who have been hard at work over the last few days, have already indicated that we should be able to re-introduce several aircraft within the next week.

I would reiterate our findings came during a routine inspection of a B767 and did not pose any immediate risk to the operation of the aircraft. As you are aware we are proud to be operating to the highest safety standards, as defined by the IATA Operational Safety Audit (IOSA) and this wasn’t an action forced upon us by any outside influence, it was our decision as we take safety very, very seriously.

Let’s all endeavour to communicate the facts accurately, in order to counteract any negative misperceptions. Let’s be proud that we have put safety above all else and do our utmost to accommodate and assist those passengers whose travel plans have been disrupted to ensure we maintain the good name of Gulf Air.

Warm regards

Ahmed Al Hammadi


Now is this PR or what .... ?
Questions:
1/ Why has it taken nearly a week to send this note out
2/ What is wrong with the aircraft in DUB that has been there since Nov06
3/ If not grounded, then why is it that all the B767 were effected
4/ Is it true IATA certificate due to expire in May07

Again, looks like no one is to blame and everything is all ok ...... Good Luck GF.:ugh:

[point8four]

Ok - so where did this note spring from? I've heard with enough manure you can grow anything, anywhere anytime. Sniff Sniff anyone?????
I heard via the via that we ain't gonna see action 'till end March? Anyone heard similar?

Extra frosties till then. Takes my leave up to 81 days this year.... that's actually a breach of my contract... does anyone have the CP's home number???

[Herbsnspices]

Ladies and Gentlemen, (If any of you are left to pretend to this title!)

My saying is better late than never, and well done for the acting PCE to come out and explain himself and GF position in relation to this crisis.

Now some of you may complain, guess that is what comfy coushy numbers do to you, the company is running, albeit with less capacity, but still running. If anything, you should be happy the job is still there and instead of moan, suggest what can be done to temporarily alleviate the problem. It is terribly easy to complain, a little more difficult though to act.

In addition, and to those of you who are unhappy, I suggest you go do the hours at EY, with their lovely XPCE present Chairman, to give you the stick like he did in the past and with the known results, some simply choose to forget....

Then I must add, better safe than sorry, and my thanks to those who are always keeping their head up in the midst of all the controversy, and saying what has to be said about GF! The spirit lives on!

[tbaylx]

Well it's a rosy view of the situation, and about a week too late, but better than nothing i suppose.

Minute traces of corrosion do not prevent aircraft from being signed out of a "c" check. So the corrosion is serious enough to warrant structural repair and a furhter unscheduled maintenance inspection taking 1/3 rd of the entire Gulf Air fleet out of operation. So i'd not describe that as minor. I doubt the tail of the aircraft was about to fall off either though.

"Gounded" technically means that DGCAM ordered the aircraft to stop flying while in this case Gulf Air voluntarily withdrew the aircraft from service for the inspections, no doubt at the strong advice from SR Technics.

As far as i know the aircraft that was in Dublin since Nov. '06 is undergoing a C check (which shouldn't normally take more than a week depending on the AMO). During that inspection they found corrosion that required a strucutral repair, and no doubt other maintenance as well. Why it has taken so long to fix is a question i don't know the answer to.

According to rostering between the 14th and 21st we should see the first aircraft come back and then the others slowly trickle in bit by bit 9subject to change with no prior notice of course). I would expect a limited amount of flying in the last week or two of March, gradually increasing back to normal levels during april. On that note if you have outstanding leave you want to take, pretty sure you won't have a problem getting it in March if you're a boeing driver.

that's the plan for today, stand byfor the new one tomorrow:)

[Sinbad1]

:oh:

Quote by the Boss " we have ordered an immediate and thorough check on our B767 fleet, following the detection of minute traces of possible corrosion in an area beneath the rear galley of one aircraft."

What a lot of baloney. (Or as the Americans would say - go and tell it to the marines.) The rear galley and the water/waste system as you see from the drawing below is very close to the Rear Bulk Head and the rear principle structure. It is a major pressurised divider. Corrosion under the toilets and galleys structures is very common. "Minute traces" of corrosion do not ground an aircraft. If this corrosion is just under the wet area then it is not a big deal. But if corrosion has spread beyond the floor structure and spread to the rear frames close to the bulkhead or the area very close to the bulk head then God help you. The repairer will be looking at quite some time before they can get this aircraft back to normal.

The area close to the rear galley is the pressurised bulkhead. Repairs to that area require specialist structural engineering work. For those who go back long enough, remember the Japanese 747 classic which crashed shortly after take off which was due to Boeing mis-calculation on the repair of the rear pressure bulkhead.

What I would like to ask is how an earth could this have possibly been missed during the last C check???? This could only happen if things were signed assuming to be OK. (The "dirty Dozen" rule: I looked there 1000 times and I didn't find anything before".)

I think it is a good thing this is happened to GF and should make them more careful in the future.This will certainly be an eye opener for the future in the way they conduct and supervise their C checks. Lesson for all. Also for the management to come clean and brief their staff and put their worries to bed once and for all.
:=



http://www.pprune.org/forums/cid:001101c75e78$da2bd2a0$05000100@fiaiez
http://www.pprune.org/forums/cid:001201c75e78$da2d5940$05000100@fiaiez

http://www.pprune.org/forums/cid:001301c75e78$da2d5940$05000100@fiaiez http://www.pprune.org/forums/cid:001401c75e78$da2d5940$05000100@fiaiez

http://www.pprune.org/forums/cid:001501c75e78$da2edfe0$05000100@fiaiez http://www.pprune.org/forums/cid:001601c75e78$da2edfe0$05000100@fiaiez

[Spirit]

The pictures/drawings won't load onto my screen...

It's really good to have you in this loop, Sinbad, as it explains a lot to those of us, who have to trust the signature in the Tech Log. :ok:

[Sinbad1]

Spirit,

Apology for the picures, I am not sure why it did not appear for some reason, It may be the Pprune website formating acceptance. not sure :O

[4HolerPoler]

Nope. This site doesn't host pictures. Use a site such as Photobucket & then link them.

4HP

[tbaylx]

As i mentioned earlier, the c checks are now being carried out by SR Technics..i suspect strongly that they are going to catch alot of stuff that was previously "missed" over several years of maintenance by the previous maintenance contractor.

Trace amounts of minor corrosion are easily treated without structure work and will not warrant grounding an aircraft. Corrosion severe enough to warrant structural work/sheet metal replacement is a bit more than minor in my humble opinion. Glad they are now inspecting the aircraft thouroughly and fixing the problems with a tool other than one you stick in your shirt pocket.:hmm:

[boeingdriverx]

Go take a look at your webmail, it seems that Hameed Ali is looking for a HOFO and a HOFST...

Then it means Pete resigned.

Very strange times in Gulf Air...

BD

[ODMEA]

http://www.aviationnews.com.au/Past_Issues/Past_Issue_Archives/0512_PDFs/p21.pdf

Found the above article....12 months old, however, bodes well for the future?

Of course I'm proud they are doing it in Aus:)

Cheers.

[Sabastienl]

It is sad to see GF in such crises. I have to agree with Neilb767 & Left
Coaster on this matter. GAMCO can be blamed easily for the
current crises with the GF67 fleet not that I am defending GAMCO,
but you get what you pay for at GAMCO & surely GF didn't pay what
other customers did...and in most cases they wanted things for free!
since they owned share in GAMCO. GF responsibility like any other
airline is to make sure that the contracted maintance provider
GAMCO or whoever actually does the maintance to their requirements,
it is quite clear that GF reps/laison in GAMCO and the middle
managment in matce. right to the top that kept quite all this
time should be held responsible even if the need arise to show
them the door ....so be it! this is just the 67 fleet ....can't wait
for the 320!! Best of luck to all.

[Bombay HF]

HOFO going to Etihad. A little bit concerning when most of the managers start to leave, maybe they know something we don't.:confused:

[Panama Jack]

Bombay HF, if I could hazzard a guess, I would think it was the same reason that Hogan left for Etihad . . . namely "mo' money."

You know what they say, money talks, B.S. walks. :ok:

I don't know if the same conditions would exist for us bus drivers at Etihad (last I heard, there is a hiring ban of GF pilots for "international political reasons").

[Speedbrake Lever]

P.J.

I think you'll find P.M. is off to EK NOT EY

and yes the so called Hogie 'BAN' is still in force

but for how long who knows

S.L.

[Spirit]

I'm really sad to see Pete go.
He was one of the brass-guys, who actually did his best.

A lot of guys are leaving these days. I wonder what GF will do to make people stay?

The fact is that GF have been sleeping, when all other carriers were up and running in the region.
Something has to be done now. It could be such a nice place to be, but I don't see the company as being competitive, as long as it is more a social project to keep groundcrew away from unemployment than an airline fighting for customers.

Relying on cashflow from the government is not a reliable foundation for the future. Agreed, injections may be required, but the aim should be to do without.

Maybe it's just me, but how come we often fly with full planes, apparently without being able to make money?
Are we in fact making money, only to have it vanish into some guys' pockets in the pink palace, or what is the explanation?

It is a fact, that GF is no longer the player in this region, that it used to be. Those times will never come back. We have to look forward now, and provide the service to our customers, that they pay for. This also means not mismaintaining the planes, to save a buck. Look at the situation now: How many of our guests will change over to our competitors, out of fear that GF planes are either unsafe, unflying or simply just delayed? Our passengers are not stupid, and if a rumour settles, that it is safer in all ways to choose someone else, then we'll loose them. This we cannot afford!!!

The people in the company, who are living in the past will either have to change their philosophy or go. Maybe the introduction of the very realistic fact, that jobsafety is no longer automatically ensured would help everybody to do their best.

It certainly doesn't help GF to improve, when guys like PM are not allowed to do their jobs because of ancient traditions. Unless things change, more good guys with professional pride will be leaving.

In times of war (another word for competition), a company must always seek to have the best possible guy in every position, regardless of nationality or name.

[Panama Jack]

Relying on cashflow from the government is not a reliable foundation for the future. Agreed, injections may be required, but the aim should be to do without.


Agree with pretty much everything you've said Spirit. Unfortunately, all other carriers in the region are make-work or ego-based projects of their national governments. Those that claim otherwise and flash figures around do some fairly questionable book-keeping. Gulf Air is one of the closest to running as a self-sustaining airline, having said that, it falls short-- not unlike swimming up from the bottom of the Mariana Trench and drowning two feet from the surface.

Unfortunately, fairly unlevel playing field in the region, and IATA and industry watchers warn of the dangers of overcapacity in the region. With the Indian airline industry growing rapidly, traditional sources of revenue are more and more scarce.

It is a pretty difficult business in other parts of the world also. As long as I have my job and the correct amount of money arrives on-time in my bank account, this clam is happy.

[Stratosphere6000]

Spot on Spirit.......cant agree with you more........Bahrain is probably the best place to live in the Middle East/Gulf States unfortunately GF is not where it should and can very well be and the competition is on the increase and getting more aggressive than ever. GF are almost gonna miss the boat if they haven't already............

[ironbutt57]

Speaking of boats..think I'm gonna take HOFO Pete (aka Maverick) out to Jarada reef and make him stay until he withdraws his resignation:} :ok:

[tbaylx]

Good idea Iron...if you need any help or beer for thta matter in convincing him, i'll be glad to help out in the hostage taking. :)

[asdflyer]

PM is going but guess who is your next Boss boys....

[noflare]

Could it be an ex Gulfie from the south of Ireland?:eek:

Mmmmmm....I wonder?:E

[REACH-69]

Grounded A/Cs.............PM leaving........what's next.......It's really sad to see what's happening to GF :sad:

[Speedbrake Lever]

Hey No Flare

You don't mean HOLY JOE do ya ?

hehe

S.L.

[old-timer]

How will I get to the BRH F1 GP now ? - hope they re-schedule me ok !
glad they found the problems on the ground, at least they are being fixed & hopefully things will improve now with the new MRO , optimistic as ever....

[CG11]

hi

what is the latest news about 767, are they coming back by end of next wek, they told us by end of this week and now next week let see.

why GT did not go DUB , i saw GI/ 2 other gulf treveller on ground since 27th why .

fos 767 told me that fleet office sent them e-mail to go leave or force leave.... why ... reason.... they are SBY and they know they are not going to fly..

CP 767 he did not even write an e-mail to his crew about the fleet and update them...

Tech. pilot 767 he is useless, in the office because he can not even take a decsion why . he is their for what , even when he update SOP he is making mistakes . but i saw him he is a good guy , the office made him useless.

VPO , looking for HOFO and HOFST why ... he did not bother him self to write about the company progress after grounding 767. well other organization grounded this 767 nopy GF.

GF management they can not make a decision on a huge task, like 767 been grounded , our pax are unhappy with all this ,

i was talking with Fo on 767 who was trying to apply for flet transfer but he told me it is too late but now he is telling me only 4 will go,...
CP767 he was away from the office for almost 5 working days . why and when he came he is working to give people leave what a management

CP767 enjoy giving pilots leave .such a useless manager

Mr. P.M. you did the right decision to leave this place specially wing A.
good luck mate.

767 will be back but for how long and if they know the A/C is really going to be replaced why they do not make a decision

[sirwa69]

I was surprised when DC (The southern Irish one, not the Scottish one)popped into a mates house for a cuppa last week. When asked why he was in Bahrain he was cagey and mentioned something about F1 testing, but I wonder if he was here for an interview!!! Time will tell, would be really great to have him back though!

On On

[Speedbrake Lever]

:D

I see the first 76 has taken to the air this morning ex Bah

to KTM and back GY

Mind you when it gets back to Bah it doesn't show as doing anything

wonder why ??

S.L.

[Icarus]

I doubt DC was out for an interview, not travelling out on the one FOC ticket entitled to as a retired/former employee. Even GF don't stoop that low. Or do they?

[Panama Jack]

I hear GJ will be back into service very soon also, perhaps as early as later on this evening, with another two 767's to come on line "very soon."

[CG11]

this is a good news ,
i saw one of them doing KTM . hope to see all of 767 in service . i thing 3 to 5 A/C will be in service by end of this month

[ironbutt57]

Well "CG11" it's always more productive to offer solutions along with your criticism...I feel the best was made of a difficult situation by all...why dont you step up to the plate and offer your "management expertise" to the fleet office?

[CG11]

ironbutt57

if you are part of GF then you know that management always looking into a pilots in their personal point of view.

if i go to the office or other pilot and give them an opininon they will consider him an enemy . why they do not have an open door policy they always write am i right . they will distroy his future .

lets talk logic,

1)
if they want to give pilots leave and they say 3 or 5 A/C will be back then why you want to give them leave or force leave .
2)
where is 767 progress memop to the pilots from 767 office
3)

why top management they do not talk to the pilots and ops staff about the problem well you know if they write a proper memo and telling facts you will not see all this rumours , well if the you go and see the first day when they grounded the 767 you will see the rumours was not that much as today .

then it is GF management to send memo and telling facts,

when you see so many pilots leaving , they have to look into this problem
they have to look into cabin crew why they leave , if you have a management skills you will see the numbers are big.

not cost cutting with printing paper,
how to reduce # resignation ,

[Panama Jack]

OK, enough ironbutt57, back to work! :}

http://www.remyc.com/hugg_graphics/dominatrix_infolust.jpg

[ironbutt57]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhh PJ whip me beat me, make me write bad checks..:}

[Panama Jack]

Uuuuhhh. :uhoh: That wasn't actually a picture of me. . . . :( Maybe of your R1, but not me. :oh:

[Ray Darr]

To the gang still at GF...glad to read that at least one of your old birds is up flying again. Good luck to all of you there.

Look, people, Gulf Air was a great place to work. It STILL has potential to be great!! Almost all of the crew were terrific, the routes were great, the equipment, until recently was fine (up to when I left, anyway)...but improvements could be made. I left (on good terms) for money reasons. I was happy there, but I understand the many reasons why people leave in droves. I have plenty of great friends still there, but I have no regrets leaving (my bank account loves me!). My family loved our time there, and even some of the schools are good there (NOT the School FEES GF says you get, mind you!) so do not take anything I am saying as against any one person - except CG11.

Most of the rest of my post is directed at CG11, but I can't watch this thread from afar without tossing in some legit comments about other areas that have been touched on briefly by others. Please feel free to respond back to whatever I say, and good luck to all of you there.

CG11, whoever you are, you are pretty hypocritical (wow - correctly spelt!). := A number of posts earlier you were ranting, albeit in some mashed-up language of your own, about this thread being all about the grounding of the 767's at your airline. And then you go off on a tangent (look it up), with the audacity (wow again...spelling is fun!) to rip a hole into the side of one of the most polite, KNOWLEDGEABLE (another multiple-syllable word - gasp!) and helpful true gentlemen many have worked with - the same person who you, in one breath say he is a nice guy and before you finish that breath, you say he is useless?? Are you on drugs (as had been asked by others about you)??

You are a real winner. A winning PRATT, actually. You fire off rude unfounded comments to people who are trying their best to help others like yourself out, and you smash them broad-sided! Do you like taking cheap shots?! You truly are pathetic! You should be so lucky to have a true advocate (look it up, bub) with Tonga Michael in your management. He joined before I left, and was well received by everyone (except jealous anti-social jerks like you, perhaps!). His kindness and generosity are appreciated by many people. And from what I hear nowadays with the crisis you are all facing there, Mike makes an to effort to check on the situation of your fleet, continues to help any crew out, works his fat a$$ off, and gets the job done. :p And he knows a thing or two about being POLITE. Learn from him (and others). You might improve your attitude (which is pretty doubtful, though. You smell like a real bad apple.)!!

I cannot believe you would strike out at anyone the way you have done. SHAME on you, CG11. If you want to go on a mission to eliminate the garbage that is screwing your airline up, aim your target higher. Even the new CP of the 767 seems to be someone else you are after for whatever reason. I don't know him (he joined well after I left) however if he just started, why would you take cheap shots against him, too? Others say he is doing well. Maybe give him a chance?! Maybe HIS hands are tied by HIS top boss(es)?? (Wasn't THAT the reason the previous CP left?)

Shouldn't you use your WASTA (doubt you have any) to awaken your seemingly-useless "BORED" of Directors, or the new incoming CEO, and have them brought up to speed on how to clean the house of the poor performers that infests that place? Going after the wrong people the way you have shows you are confused about what is really happening there.

Too bad you are stuck there and are bitter about it, CG11. Maybe you couldn't leave to better places like many of us have. This is no fault of the people that FLY there, but of those higher up who are responsible for the stagnation in that place. THEY are the real targets. THEY are the reason you are losing more good people. You started asking about why PM, RJ, CR, and many others gone or going soon...re-visit that. Does that help adjust your aim??

SO many other airlines pay better (WAKE UP GF - no wonder people are leaving, with the $hit pay that is still being offered, NO WONDER people still change their mind about going there!). So many other companies have an organized Staff Travel (is the ST Manager and p!ss-poor staff there replaced, yet?! - and this is not a cheap shot at the lower ranks...what a joke that Staff Travel was!! There was only ONE guy (a local Bahraini) who knew his stuff, and WORKED, while the rest sat and pecked messages on their mobile phones while the queues kept growing!! Is it still as bad as a couple of years back?). So many other airlines have non-corrupt housing departments (T had a shady background and yet he still oversees the housing contracts? And how about the amount that they give to find your own place (nothing
is "provided" like they said in the contract...). Get one of the "BORED" of Directors to find a place with what GF thinks ANYone might find with the money they say will get something decent. NOT!! NO WONDER people are pissed off about their housing - and still leaving! (Read what is in the contract and what they "offer"!!!). So many other airlines have a true HR department - USEless - , or an engineering department that can hire and retain a legitimate amount of engineers...or a medical clinic that WORKS (unlike the mess that GF has. Are your Doctors still quitting in frustration?! Ever wonder why it is open 24 hours then not then 24...? The doctors know it is spiraling out of control, too, and QUIT!)...and with this latest fiasco you are dealing with...who oversees the maintenance there now?! At least someone had the balls to bring them in for checks. (Oh and your acting big-boss said it was "minute traces" of "minor corrosion" in his letter to everyone that someone posted here?! HAH! He needs glasses.)

...has your management listened and been able to fix the above issues yet??
If these issues would be addressed, instead of being mindlessly ignored, your company would retain ALL of the people that left, and attract lots more.

CG11 - you really are a jerk for your comments about those who are not responsible for your airlines woes. If you modify your postings (read how to do that elsewhere...) and address the issues (the main ones which make people leave) I will chop most of this post down. Deal??

Good luck, GF. You truly are a great bunch, and I will never forget the great people there. It's too bad that those at the top have left it rusting too long in the sand. As I said before, it could still be a great place to work. Time for a SERIOUS clean sweep, Andre.

Cheers,
R.D.

[Spirit]

Amen!

I couldn't agree more:D

[REACH-69]

Nothing against CG11 ,but i do support everything said by Ray Darr........good night:zzz:

[Trader]

Ray, you hit the nail on the head!!! Peopleare not leaving GF out of spite but because the packages elsewhere are better to the point where you would almost have to be nuts NOT to leave.

Even someone like myself,who has a family, moved his household and furniture across the planet and would have prefered to stay is now looking. It takes a lot to move family so when guys like me (and EVERY friend I have here at GF with a family saying the same thing) it means there are serious issues. Top that off with more than a dozen Bahraini's planning to leave in the first batch to 'Airibiya' and GF has some serious crewing issues looming.

The other issues re: staff travel etc just add to the fire.

The only way to solve the issue is through the package they offer. To meet the other Gulf company's pacages that mean significant payraises, increasing housing to at least 700BD, more than tripling the school allowance etc and then adding yearly increases to match inflation.

I have a feeling though that we will get a token increase in pay (hey, lets see if we even get the 3% on this months pay cheque) and a 50 or 100BD increase in housing.

They have ONE chance to save some pilots from leaving - lets see if they take it.

[point8four]

I beleieve the new 1st yr F/O basic salaries at EY are in the region of BD2450! Any substance to this? If so GF has more homework to do in terms of competative salary and pilot retention.

If not, how do they hope to keep the chaps here? Just a thought.

[767 1]

hi everybody

i just want to interfare about the way people talks here CG11 i am not against you i do not know which fleet you fly or who are you, but i am a 767 FO, i have never saw ACP767 MF or CP NS working unproffisional .. they are proffisional ,CP767 he is here since October or NoV. and ACP767 has other things to do as well not just seating and answer your Question or doing Cp767 duty because there are so many things that we do not know in the office they have to deal with it and when the A/C been grounded they can not just write a memo . they have to go through so many things before they send you a memo. HOFO sent us memo, APCE as well, may be when you saw the 767 was stopped from flying for some reason .your way of writing was unacceptable .in my opininon
and if you are flying A330 then you do not have to fight for us

i applied for fleet transfer and i am waiting , this will take a time . you have to understand that they have other things to do more important than flet transfer.
767 fleet office they do have an open door policy , i have been to the office so many times and no bady were upset.
there is few points which you are right about it but not all and when you plame the management when ever something happed


cheers

767

[ironbutt57]

We all agree CG11's attack on the CP and tech pilot were unwarranted and certainly not true..both are more than happy to see folks pop into the office for a hello or a coffee, sometimes their duties prevent them from entertaining us, but when time permits they are more than happy to do so..information to them about the status of the fleet was constantly changing, as the "plan of attack" was constantly changing...which airplanes go where etc...etc...so it would be difficult for them to pass along ACCURATE information...so again, I would recommend a personal visit to the office with your concerns ther Mr CG11..I'm sure either CP or FTP would be more than happy to entertain your criticisms and ponder your ideas...

[Stratosphere6000]

Excellent post ray..agree with many points you put forward. However the airline has lost so much money in the past, that a mishap like this would almost destroy any hope of conditions ever improving here. It will take many years to turn this airline into a serious player in the region. Something I feel that can be achieved with the right people. I don't think many will have the time to wait as there is no reason to show loyalty ater the way pilots are treated here....if you're ambitious and want to achieve things in your career I would recommend a jump to a more stable and growing carrier. Life may not be as easy going and good like here but you will get where you want to be...................

[h73kr]

Speaking as someone who KNOWS...

"This info is not exaggerated.

There was a change proposal sent out by schedule planning and it didn't make good reading.
From my sources, scheduling are looking at cancelling a large number of flights for a few weeks in March.
The "grounding" is to fix some problems so that the A and C checks are completed correctly (unlike Gamco)."

This IS exaggerated, and factually incorrect. The current maint. organisation finds a structural corrosion problem, an immediate fleet check identifies it as a wider fleet issue. The decision is taken to rectify the problem urgently (unfortunately, repairing aircraft usually is most convenient when they are on the ground!). The repairs commence, and naturally take some time and have operational impact. Can someone please tell me how they think that this is action is somehow a bad thing? This has nothing, nil, nada to do with A or C Checks tasks not being completed correctly FFS.

Bloody uninformed speculative rumours annoy me frankly.

[ironbutt57]

h73kr.. people speculate as to the cause of the corrosion not being detected at an earlier stage, corrosion is a slow on going process, and it will be interesting to see how it advanced undetected to this point..possibly it occurred in an area not normally susceptable to corrosion, or was accelerated by the harsh environment in which we operate the aircraft..(The Gulf is the 3rd most saline body of water in the world) and since no real details have emerged at this juncture, speculation runs rampant...a natural occurrence...after all it IS a rumour network, and rumours tend to spread when facts are not known...as the facts emerge in due time, the rumours will fade..and yes they can sometimes be annoying I'll agree with you there..at least positive steps were taken to ensure crew and pax safety, and continuing airworthiness of our fleet:ok:

[h73kr]

agreed Ironb., rumour and conjecture is fine, unless it's stated as fact of course, and is completely wrong! As for the cause of the corrosion, in my opinion, no way was saline a factor, nuff said. ;)



"..at least positive steps were taken to ensure crew and pax safety, and continuing airworthiness of our fleet:ok:" .....agree 100%. It's a positive thing, not a negative!

[Desert_Storm]

well, you know guys the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I´ve flown for companies were one have to wait up to 3 month to get your salary due to finantial problems. Here at GF we haven´t seen that situation yet and honestly, don´t think we´ll get there. Every airline in the world faces maintenance problems everyday but the good thing is that at least, GF is doing everything in his power to overcome this situation. Obviously, the ideal would have been not allowing the airplanes to reach that state but, this is what we have now and there is no point blaming or winning about this situation. About the salary package, well, think there always will be companies giving better salaries and benefits to their employees so it´s our choice to stay here or rush into EK or Emirates; I´m pretty sure that we all are aware that all this companies are desperately looking for pilots so why don´t apply if you are so uncomfortable in GF? :ok: Cheers

[tbaylx]

with EY F/O's making a 2450BHD base pay now, that's an awfully tempting option actually.....let's see what summer brings, in the meantime i'm trying to find some more of that suntan lotion for my poor balding head that dosen't seem to like days out in the sun at Jarada as much as i do:)

[ironbutt57]

Well I tried, but "Maverick" chickened out and went skiing instead...next time
:ugh:

[Trader]

Tbay - actually it was the lack of lotion and the copious quantity of alcohol that caused the 'head burn':} Mine seems ok - mind you I am not quite as bald!!!!!!!

EY makes 2450/month PLUS they don't spend 290 additional each month for housing PLUS they don't have to add another 150/month in savings per kid in school (more if your kids are over about 10 years of age). You look at those numbers and they come away 1240 BD MORE a month than we do at GF.

Factor in a retirement plan etc and it is almost impossible NOT to move. These claims that DXB is super expensive don't cut it. Comparing it to Bahrain and I see only some minor differences. Hell with that pay difference who cares if you spend 100bd more a month you still come out ahead.

THIS is why pilots are leaving GF. Not out of spite but out of simple economics. The other carriers have made significant increases over the years while GF has done almost nothing. So people leave.

Take into account that your wife has her own visa which entitles her to work and you quickly see how a family is better off.

I like GF and I like the fact that it is small and that you get to know most people. But unless they match or come close to the other regional carriers then I and many others will be forced, literally, to move.

[boeingcrap]

Let's all leave enmasse....!!!!:}

[Sal-e]

With all the noise and the hoohahs in GF, I think she will rise from the ashes like the phoenix as she is now looking at nothing but promising times ahead. All the turmoil (so it seems) only serves to strengthen her in her forward progression. I believe GF has already reached rock bottom and the only possible way is up with the support of her two sponsors (whoever they are). So please, all you whiners, cynics, freeloaders, moaners, dooms day prophets, be my guest and leave as the most of us who prefer to stay might want to witness the rise of GF to her former glory. You are welcome to stay of course but please, do not bite the hand that's feeding you.

[DesertHawk]

Sale- not to sound like a downer but what are u thinking? past glory? hate to be the one that tells yah but there will never be a single airline in the gulf region again and i can assure you what gulf air is not going to transform into this wonderfully well run unit you seem to think or better 'dream' of. i agree those who want to stay should be optimistic we can only get better but mate please be realistic "yanni" this airline will always be a tad slow to change and behind the curver compared to our western counterparts

[Panama Jack]

Well, not sure what is meant by former glory, since times and the airline industry itself have changed so much. Nor am I sure that it will eclipse the likes of Emirates or Qatar airways in terms of fleet size or destinations served. Nor am I certain that any of that is actually all that meaningful.

Instead I would be more pleased with a well run, efficient, profitable and self-sustainable airline. I help we don't join the regional equivalent of the nuclear arms race of the past decade, where each airline builds massive fleets without the payload or market share to justify it, or go for the big-airplane syndrome, where we only want to have widebodies because everybody else has widebodies.

Being well run and self sustainable is our best bet for good pay, and an employer to whom one wants to dedicate their career. I think that every single employee plays a role in reaching that goal, however, one important element is missing, and that is clear leadership-- at least for the next few weeks.

So I wait anxiously to see what André Dosé brings to the table on April 1st.

[Sinbad1]

:=

Sal-e (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=22139)


Quote

"With all the noise and the hoohahs in GF, I think she will rise from the ashes like the phoenix"


Dear Albus Dumbledore,

Forgive me for saying this but dont you think you have taken this a bit too far, I think you make GF sound like the new Harry potter move Harry Potter and The Order Of The Phoenix (http://harrypotter.warnerbros.co.uk/). and you sound like J.K.Rowling.

Any Airline go through this type of Drama in one form or another, this is not really a big deal..is it? In the same time you have to allow the people concerned or affected by the grounding to moan & whinge, It is called human factor.Also, this does not mean as you put it "do not bite the hand that's feeding you" biting the hand that's feed them. They are not animals, in fact It is credit to those people that GF and other Airlines that has grown to were they are now.Just because people criticised their company it does not mean they are not loyal. I think the people that criticised the system and make the right voices are the one that care very much. Bottom line what keeps the airline airborne and profitable are the pax, and the pax could not careless whether if it B767 or A300 they flying with or not. and as long as the price is right, people will fly. In my opinion you are only a number no mater which company you work for and for howlong. Also in my opinion you owe those pepole an apology.:ok:



regards

Rubeus Hagrid

[tbaylx]

Wish i was as optomistic as you Sal-e. I have no doubt that GF will pull through this, mostly because it would really hurt Bahrains economy, employment, and last but not least, their national ego if it went under.

I would be really suprised if it ever makes much money without major changes that frankly, they just aren't willing to make. For too long it was the only show in town, and all the ones who could skimmed a little here and there, employed 5 times as many people in the office as necessary, huge inefficencies in all aspects of the operation etc etc.

Today little has changed, and i don't think that upper management has either the will or the means to sort it out. As an expat contract employee all that dosen't mean much to me (god knows i have to really try sometimes, but i try not to let if bother me). If they want to run a bloated, ineficient airline that will struggle to ever to make money then that's fine with me. In order to keep us expats coming and flying over here we need a competitive package. As long as GF provides that we will come and stay. When they no longer do that we will leave. Sure you can hire new people, eventually that costs you alot of money and the experienced pilots become harder to find for what you are paying.

At the end of the day it's the lifestyle that they can offer that keeps us around. Future potential dosen't put any money in my retirement plan, and not too many of us are willing to sit around drinking the Falcon koolaid hoping that someday it will be the glory airline of the ME again. The broom you need to make that happen would sweep much too wide a swath i think.

Here's hoping they get the parts right that need to be sorted, and soonish.

[repapips]

CG11: All i can say is... i don't understand what the .... you are saying.
I recognize some English words but they don't seem to create something coherent.

That's why reading Ray Darr's post was such a welcome treat. It's like turning the light on while you were trying to read a good book in the dark. Well, it's not saying cg11's post is good... So i guess i should revise that last sentence... It's like turning the light on while trying to read a book in the dark.

correct me if I'm wrong but I've worked with quite a number of different people from different nationalities & backgrounds & mother tongues but i still have to fly(or talk) with someone as incoherent & incomprehensible as cg11.

I don't know, maybe it's just me...or i was just lost in translation.

Interpreters, anyone? :)

[ODMEA]

Sinbad, I have to disagree. I do not fly solely based on price as work pays for my trips in most cases. Furthermore, I DO CARE, as do many premium pax I know, what type of ac we fly on. I REFUSE to fly the GF 767 and did so prior to this incident as the J class was nothing short of a joke in is disgusting outdated, non-functioning state. Even the A330's are now showing age and unmaintained very worn J and F seats.

GF needs to remember WE pay your salary and as such you guys should take pride in being able to transport your pax in a decent cabin or does ur concern end on your side of the cockpit door? I really hate to stoop to such a level but please do realize while we may only count a step or two higher than the cargo you may carry but we do have opinions and often understand aviation at a level that may just surprise alot of aviation professionals. I do not blindly get on a plane and see it as a big or small one. I am aware at all times from making the reservation EXACTLY what type of ac I'm traveling on.

ODY:hmm::ooh::O

[point8four]

Exactly Odmea - I agree. Passengers now days DO have a choice and are acutely aware of the equipment being used. Price is no longer sole motivation for choice of carrier, its a whole bunch of factors including value, fleet, connections, time and service.

Consider (rather appropriately) having to travel to VGZR (Dhaka). A 30 year old dc10/a300 or a 3 month old 773?? Hmmm? The "Amistad Syndrome" of labour placement agencies trying to move thousands of workers to the ME is a separate issue, but many people from Europe/States etc travel via the ME to the FE and the Antipodes, and they are exceptionally aware of the carrier and its equipment that they have chosen.

Passengers (SLF) do pay the bills and GF needs to drag themselves up to par, they no longer have the captive market of yesteryear, its dog eat dog.

[Sinbad1]

:=

ODMEA
Quote
"Sinbad, I have to disagree. I do not fly solely based on price as work pays for my trips in most cases. Furthermore, I DO CARE, as do many premium pax I know, what type of ac we fly on"

I was not referring to you as being a pax or some of your premium pax. I always travelled 1st or Bus depend how my company valuate me, but I was referring to the average pax that's just wants to go from A to B specially in the ME and the Asian region. If you take the most money making sectors .i.e the Asian sector is always full, but if you referring to Bus Class or other class that is completely different ball game. But we are not discussing Cabin Class configuration here are we?? I do not think it is right for some people in any company should have the right to think that they are doing you a favour by employing you and hand feed you. You and I and other people are there because of our expertise no more no less.

ODMEA
Quote
"I REFUSE to fly the GF 767 and did so prior to this incident as the J class was nothing short of a joke in is disgusting outdated, non-functioning state. Even the A330's are now showing age and unmaintained very worn J and F seats"


Cabin appearance is always priority number 1 in any Airline operation whether it is a low cost or other wise. It is always the captain discretion to accept or refuse the aircraft , this is stated in the MEL.Cabin appearance is purely Airline engineering issue as well as cabin crew issue as they the one should be writing it in the cabin log as a defect and from then on it is up to MOC or MCC to follow up. additionally, after any check the cabin should have been inspected before it is released back to service is it not? what does the engineering crew does during a daily or weekly??? I wonder!!


ODMEA
Quote
" I do not blindly get on a plane and see it as a big or small one. I am aware at all times from making the reservation EXACTLY what type of ac I'm travelling on"


You must remember not every one is as educated as you are when it comes to air travel, Most of my friend are surgeons, PhD and teachers would not know Boeing from an airbus if they fell on it.They have enough trouble operating the IFE hand set let alone choose an aircraft.


Point8four
Qoute
"Exactly Odmea - I agree. Passengers now days DO have a choice and are acutely aware of the equipment being used. Price is no longer sole motivation for choice of carrier, its a whole bunch of factors including value, fleet, connections, time and service.

How many pax do you actually come across when they go to their travel agents and say " could you please tell me what type of an aircraft do you have on your menu so I can choose, is it a Boeing 737 NG with winglet or is it the classic 747 with JD9"??? come on be realistic. I totally agree with regards to the pax from Europe are exceptionally aware of the carrier but not its equipments, How could they this is beyond there control.

In my experience what keep a customers loyal to that particular airline is the Cabin appearance which always give very pleasant feed back, The cabin crew mannerism and of course the meal on board not to mention the price. Look at AA aircraft in Sharjah they are not the best in appearance but their flight always almost full. I wonder why??:ok:

[point8four]

Sinbad,

Check my post again, choice is made via a combination of factors. I said pax are aware of the equipment being flown, not that they request a specific type mate. Their decisions are made using various criteria especially for the more discerning premium pax.

I know for a fact people will recognise an old aircraft(in/exterior) off the bat. With all the media attention centred on air travel these days, it has helped the general public make more informed decisions with regard to both choice of carrier and travel arrangements - and that goes from a-z, from meals to schedules.

If you want passengers, offer them value and service, we can't rely on the old "if you wanna get there you have to go with us" mentality.

[Sinbad1]

:ugh:


point8four

This is part of your post which I commented on;

Exactly Odmea - I agree. Passengers now days DO have a choice and are acutely aware of the equipment being used. Price is no longer sole motivation for choice of carrier, its a whole bunch of factors including value, fleet, connections, time and service.

Consider (rather appropriately) having to travel to VGZR (Dhaka). A 30 year old dc10/a300 or a 3 month old 773?? Hmmm?


This my part of my post which is in partial agreement with regards to the other point you mentioned;

I totally agree with regards to the pax from Europe are exceptionally aware of the carrier but not its equipments, How could they this is beyond there control.


I suggest you read both post...MATE :ok:

[Trader]

ODMEA - the problem of the cabin appearance is a BIG one especially on teh 767. I have a few friends who have travelled on business and GF has replaced the ac with a 767 MUCH to their dismay. They now travel any other airline given the choice.

The 330´s have relatively new cabins and already they are seeing the wear. Almost everytime we park off gate they bring one set of stairs to the L1 one door. This means that 200 plus pax get off while trudging through first class. As they do the stop and go they rest their bags on the leather uppers of the seats. Just look at those seats today. Then they send a memo to cabin crew saying that they should be careful while in first class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then they do an India or Pakistan flight, which is oversold, and fill up first and biy class with whoever they can - and I hate to say it but the 'class' of pax makes a difference.

Finally, their is NO maintenance of the fleet. There was a 330 recently with a missing overhead bin door in first class!!!!! GF needs to wake up.

I don't think I have been to a party or dinner in the last 2 years where someone, upon learning that I work at GF, has not said that the no longer fly GF. There is a lot of choice these days.

[brassplate]

quoting from the gdn dated 13th march, meeting of the 95th international airlines technical pool (iatp) convention........

"the three-day event is being attended by more than 400 delegates representing global aviation and related industries, including aircraft manufacturers airbus and boeing.
mr al hammadi said gulf air needed to replace nine of its aircraft with new boeing 747s, as well as order an additional 25 aircraft-either boeing or airbuses."

guys, does this look like and airline that is going to sit idly by and rot while the others in the region are developing fast? i think not.
i agree with Sal-e somewhat and am tending towards optimism. meanwhile, i wait patiently as long as i'm getting paid.

[yoohoo748]

It seems to me that for one reason or another the Maintenance at GF is seriously lacking. The 767's that have been offline for over two weeks and that are now trickling back online seem to have had minimal, if any, maintenance performed on them. (other than the corrosion checks that needed to be completed). The last aircraft that I flew had a list as long as my arm of items that needed attention. I am not an AME, but most of the items probably should have been tended to while these birds were on the ground. I can see us flying these birds with the same reoccurring defects again. I think that I was dreaming when I thought that we were going to get relatively 'clean' birds back from Ireland. Would it have been that tough to send a team of AMEs with some tools and spares to work on these a/c while they were there? Perhaps not with visa's and such, but there MUST have been something that these guys could have been doing to get the a/c back in shape. Although I like my job, I do find it quite embarrassing to have to talk to people who have actually flown in the back of one of my planes. I try my best to keep from telling them how poor the maintenance really is. Band aid effect I think would be an appropriate term. There really is no excuse.

All that being said, I like it here in Bahrain, I like the people and the mixed up company that we work for. I post this only because of concern for the company.

Just venting some frustrations. I do my part on providing safe and efficient operations in the air, I am just asking for the support on the ground that I thought was here all along.

CHEERS!!!

[Desert Diner]

Mr Al Hammadi said Gulf Air needed to replace nine of its aircraft with new Boeing 747s

If he truly said that, then GF truly has serious problems:ugh:

[Sal-e]

DesertM2005, I think the likes of you have nothing postive to say in any case whatsoever. If the decision was to get another type, you will have something bad to say about that choice as well. Why don't you elaborate on your comment and give us the whys and why nots rather than shallow, sideline, pointless cheap shots like that?

[brassplate]

the point is GF is not stupid, nor idle, nor without a business plan, nor want to run as a government department as it sometimes does because of a few rotten apples up top, nor do they seem to like their current situation but are working on changing the status quo as we speak.

in fact, GF is slowly turning the corner and are adopting the perfect business strategy as i've always predicted so accurately that it's uncanny. Hmmmmm.

i say all you moaning, bitching, all talk and no action types, please now leave, a good company can do without those types, not only for the companies future prosperity but also for the fellow workers who constantly has to put up with negativity that wears one down.

[CG11]

767 coming back . how many of them

and why the company decided to transfer another 4 fos to A340 total 8 the plan was 4 fos .... what a >>>>>>>.

All Locals, :*

[ironbutt57]

no no no cg11....the plan was eight read your webmail...awarded by fleet seniority, not skin color... first group were locals as it turns out, but that was because they were the only ones to bid it...others didnt bid it, some more junior locals and expats next group of four goes next month...new intakes arriving on 767...it's a chance for some 76 f.o.'s to finally have a stab at something new.

[767 1]

I do agree with ironbutt57.

the plan was for 8 fos and CG11 you have to read you mails before you commet on something .

and first group all of them were senior even the jounir becuase no body applied from the seniors so they will be in the top of the list .

i can not say who will go or who will not . but make sure you think before you talk with all my respect to you .

you were planning to leave so, why you bother your self and want to know who will go or who will not . and you r flying 330 do not you .

you do not have to mention all the eimes LOCALs . we all work in the same airline , so

[Gamik]

What is the status with GF B767's? How many of them are still not back yet? I see that GF has cancelled 30-odd flights on Sunday 25th March.

- Gamik

[Desert_Storm]

I totally agree with you man. I had the chance to fly GJ for its first flight after coming from Dublin and what can I tell you but it had more that 30 reports which could have been fixed there. This items weren´t big issues like cracks in the root of the wings or corrosion, but broken shades, tray tables, EPR switch instead of N1, etc, etc.
Well, really don´t know if GF are really on replacing the airplanes and that´s why they are not putting money on'em or it´s just that they don´t give a sh.... anymore. Cheers!:{

[Desert Diner]

But were the toilets clean?:ouch:

[ODMEA]

Is anyone able to shed light on this new appointment in terms of caliber/reputation of the gentleman and also, is this a good sign on GF's part taking technical side of its operations seriously (out of the hands of the imbeciles it was in)

http://www.ameinfo.com/114067.html

Thanks in advance.
Oddy:O

[Sal-e]

Some of my comments still ring true. My stance hasn't changed much.