Dromader PZL M18. What are they like?

[l_reason]

I got my first AG flying job and I’ll be starting in the M18. I’ll be doing some dual spray training in another aircraft then putting in some time in the Dromader before I start the first contract. I’m looking for pointers from guys that have worked Dromaders.
Thanks

[Big Nasty]

Take up the first job offer you get flying Airtractors or thrush

[l_reason]

Big Nasty, do you have much time in the PZL? How do they differ from the planes you mention handling wise. I’m taking the first Ag flying job I was offered I’m not about to decline a seat because of aircraft preference. The owners are truly top notch people! The company has a large fleet of M-18’s but they do have a few others (all smaller then the PZL) I’m sure I wont be touching. Is there anything in particular about the Dromader you don’t like? Why?

[Chippik]

l_reason, check your PMs

[Wirecutter]

I_Reason, here's some tips for you
During the pre flight, give each main wheel a good hard kick, if nothing falls off the rest of the aircraft, it's airworthy.:}
If this is your first ag flying job, you will probably enjoy it but follow Big Nasty's advice and find a seat in an air tractor or thrush as soon as you can. I am fortunate enough to do a few hours in one every now and that's more than enough to remind me how good it is in western built aircraft.
Like most eastern european machinery, they are built for a purpose not for style and comfort.

[Tool Box]

The only thing you have to worry about with the drom is how many birds you can impale on the pitot tube by sneaking up behind them...:eek:
Be a gentleman and lube it first though :}

[alpha tango driver]

I thought Domader is Polish for " I am going to kill you " :)

[M18bloke]

They are heavy yet great to fly.
Use the trim lever often.
Get a complete set of metric tools, you will use all of them often.
Note the flight manual refers to the rearward facing back seat as "The mechanics cabin"

[SNS3Guppy]

You didn't state weather you're flying a turbine drom or a piston drom, or the model (A, or B), or what your experience level is...or the type of flying you'll be doing with the airplane.

Ag work isn't entry level work. The Dromader is a fairly forgiving airplane, but in turbulence in mountainous terrain it can become quite demanding, and can be quite unstable. In normal flying conditions it's a comfortable, stable airplane, but not in rough conditions close to the hills.

If this is your first ag job, you'd be much better served getting a season or two in a pawnee or an ag truck, or an air tractor. Getting a few passes before the season begins and then going to work isn't well advised. People have done it for many years, but today we understand that there are better ways. The dismal fatality rate of the old days has been changed thanks to todays thinking, training, and practices.

All my Dromader time has been in turbine airplanes, and the powerplant changes the character of the airplane considerably. The pratt version vs. the garrett version are very different, as is the way the straight dromader differs from the A or B. The nuts and bolts are essentially the same, but the airplanes do fly differently.

[l_reason]

Thanks for the advice guys! I was at the hangar today having anther look around and doing some paperwork. I had a seat in my new “office” today it looks like a fairly strait forward aircraft just bigger then what I‘m used to. I’ll be doing dual with a well respected Ag pilot trainer here in Canada. Then coming back and doing a couple hours of dual in one of their M-18’s

I know Ag flying is not entry level. I have been trying to get in at this company for about 4 years. Having a few hours behind me now (2500TT and 400 tail wheel). I have been doing low level photography for the past 1800 so. I’m quite used to working a plane not just pointing at a destination.

I’ll be flying only piston M-18’s both A and B models. I’ll be working on the aircraft before the season starts installing and calibrating booms. Along with burning time getting used to the plane and GPS. They do mainly forestry work in 4 aircraft formations, each plane with their own GPS.

The owners of this company have been great to deal with, and boss told me “we don’t care about the fuel and oil you can fly as much as you want to get comfortable” “If you ever feel that your not up to the job I as that you walk away, no hard feelings” I only wish more operators had this attitude.

Wish me luck I hope I don’t need more then I have.

[M18bloke]

Put your helmet on before you start climbing into the thing.
Do not forget to lock your tail wheel.
Keep the throttle friction nut done up tight, otherwise they have a nasty habit of going back to idle at a critical point on take off.
They are not a big machine, everything else in Ag is just little (except the 802).
Take it easy, they are not a straight forward aircraft to fly on forestry work in the hills on windy turbulent days.:eek:
Get a thorough understanding of the preflight & start routine, once again it is not straight forward.
Do not try to keep up with the other 3 aircraft you are going to work with.:=
It is interesting that you have an opinion on "operator attitudes" when you have not started your first Ag flying job.
There is bugger all difference between the piston A & B model, the extra flap on the B model is helpful.


ENJOY:ok:

[l_reason]

M18bloke, that was the kind of advice I was looking for, sounds like I should use a checklist for a while until I get to know the machine. I will be doing a couple hours dual in a Dromader with one of their veterans before I have to do any procedures alone. What are your thoughts on priming the fuel pump often, one of the guys at the hangar said he primes the fuel pump every line to prevent any chance of fuel starvation. (small lever to the pilots right behind the mag switch). Do you do the same?

The comment I made about the “operator attitude” is not based solely on the Ag business, in Canada there is no shortage of aviation companies that try to put the bottom line ahead of safety. I’m thankful the people I’ll be working with DON’T have that mindset.

Thanks again

[Pturn]

1_Reason,

Would you please ask your "boss" if there is a pilot-job on the "Drom" for a european CPL-JAR pilot?? I know mountain conditions etc.
Thanks and good luck
Pturn

[cotton CAPTAIN]

:ok: Long time reader first time poster.
I have enjoyed this forum and most of its contributors and have even learnt a little. It is good to see people such as M18bloke being so genuine and helpful with some choice information.

I concur with most of M18blokes tips as I too have extensive experience on the drom in both fires and ag, good luck with what sounds like a dream start to ag. :cool:

[l_reason]

Well I'm up flying the Dromader now. Nice plane and much lighter on the controls then I was thinking it was going to be (as long as you keep the trim in check). Its not all that hard to start if you have a good idea how things work. I did 4 hours dual in our two seat M-18. Then went up solo for the first time today in what is going to be my plane for the season. Its quite different to land then the two seater. I'm sure its due to the aft C of G in the other plane. Has anyone ever seen or flown another 2 seat Dromader?

I'm all smiles today after watching it exceed 2000fpm on the vsi at 100mph. Sure is nice to have that much power at your disposal. Although I'm sure it wont feel just as nice when I put 2000L of water in it later this week.

Off to burn some time and fuel, Cheers.

[SNS3Guppy]

In the summer time with a load of chemical I typically see 100 fpm climb, with turbine engines on the Dromader, either the P&W, or the Garrett. Getting close to a mountain with updraft, I can do five hundred feet per minute, but I never count on it.