DXB Weather closure 25.2.07

[ATCO1962]

Well, that was fun this morning. Did all you ATCO and pilot guys and gals west of the UAE/Oman border have as much fun as we did in Muscat?

Had an MAS B747 divert to Salalah for the first time in my 15 years here and Seeb was full up with even some US military aircraft that probably shouldn't have been here. Lots of aircraft turning up at our border squeaking something about low fuel and the like with no co-ord whatsoever.

Seriously, we need to lay down some clear and workable plans so that we can endeavour to make the flow of traffic in these parts more efficient and safe when these events overtake us because it's only going to happen more frequently with more ferociousness.

A few things spring to mind; why can't the military air bases be more accommodating, if even for a few hours so that these diversion jets can pick up some fuel and wait for a weather break? How about designated holding patterns in all surrounding units that can be instantly used as soon as it becomes apparent that no more landings can take place? How about laying down a bit more asphalt everywhere just for such occasions? The list goes on; feel free to add to it.

Thanks to most of you who didn't keep on pestering for information that we didn't have and waited till the info was at hand. That's professionalism:ok:

[Funk]

:eek: Faaarrk!
Just got off the morning shift we copped the last couple of hours of it, the poor guys on the night shift were 2 short due to sickness and got hammered.
I apologise to anyone due to my massive sense of humour failure for those arriving/departing from the east of DXB but that ****e frequency was the last thing I needed, we were still tidying up the mess with holding at 2pm this arvo.
Now to kick that fuggin cat and drink the cupboard dry:ok:

[Alpha 6]

oh no...don't tell me winter's over?!?!:\
gotta buy sunblock and face towels now...

[Wizofoz]

the poor guys on the night shift

Err...

Not to mention the poor guys actually IN the aircraft??!!??

[Ray Darr]

I heard it was 35 degrees in the front offices in some of the birds today for the first time this year...summer is here. Yipes...break out the frostie brewskies!

[fractional]

Seriously, we need to lay down some clear and workable plans so that we can endeavour to make the flow of traffic in these parts more efficient and safe when these events overtake us because it's only going to happen more frequently with more ferociousness.
Planning? The answer I usually get is "if you have a problem call me and we'll take from there..."
These guys have failed to realise that something needs urgent thinking and it must have been done years ago.

[Panama Jack]

For a few hours this morning, it was quite interesting everywhere between between KWI and MCT. One of the more memorable flights I've had in the region (I guess just because we are spoiled-- they probably do this type of thing in Europe on an almost daily basis). :(

[uplock]

Could some one clear this up was the Forcast Acurate or was it another 30 % Prob FG ?

[bluepacific]

Forecast showed 30% prob 1500m Vis. Coming from BOM yesterday, we heard the poor MAS chap diverting to SLL (due no more space avail in MCT )and getting info from "Majan".
Listening to DXB wx, vis was 100M in fog. I wonder what time it cleared up.
BP:)

[EKwannabe]

Several of my cabin crew friends' flights were delayed to almost seven hours.. waiting for connection flights to arrive..
does one not exceed duty time then?

[Oblaaspop]

Simple solution, why don't they stop p1ssing around with the new runway, get it finished and sort out the CAT IIIB ASAP. (oh, and get some decent wx forcasters in - its got to be the easiest MET job on the planet 99% of the year, but they still don't seem to get it right!!):ugh:

This has happened every year with the change of seasons for the past 2 million years, why haven't we got CATIII sorted yet? No lack of funds, so no excuse!!!:*

[divingduck]

Quote: Had an MAS B747 divert to Salalah for the first time in my 15 years here and Seeb was full up with even some US military aircraft that probably shouldn't have been here. Lots of aircraft turning up at our border squeaking something about low fuel and the like with no co-ord whatsoever.

IF those aircraft arrived from the Western side of the border...especially the military guys...then it was coordinated! 3 times, by the Assistant, by the supervisor and by the UAE south controller...if it came from elsewhere, I can't comment:ok:

Puts on a Monty Python hat..."I dream about a second runway in DXB" I also dream about being able to give Dubai only 10 miles...:ugh: can't see that happening in the near future:mad:

[ATCO1962]

Hey, duck; only relaying what was told to me by the person who was on Central sector. After having a chat, it was probably a case of late co-ord rather than none at all. Either way, it was a bun fight in the middle of changing over watches and just emphasises the need to have a good, written plan, with procedures in place, so that we don't have to use jury-rigged tactics to survive!

One further gripe; the US military aircraft that we took under "fuel emergency" conditions were Al Dhafra based. We knew that OMAA was open when these aircraft diverted to Seeb and, upon inquiring, were told that OMAA is a "civil-only" airfield. Since when does that preclude emergency traffic from landing?? It would have been interesting to see the fallout if one of the KC135s had flamed out on short final here.

Anyway, it turned out fine and we should all have a group hug!!

Oh, and the doors are wide open for you and foxy to return. Just pick up the phone:ok:

[fractional]

Either way, it was a bun fight in the middle of changing over watches and just emphasises the need to have a good, written plan, with procedures in place, so that we don't have to use jury-rigged tactics to survive!ATCO1962,
I wish your message gets through instead of the "call me if you have a problem" startegy leading to scrambling for solutions at last minute in an area where airports aren't available at will, sometimes due to politics.
they probably do this type of thing in Europe on an almost daily basis).Panama Jack,
In Europe and elsewhere in the wintry Northern Hemisphere (with the exception of Russia), you can almost divert anywhere. Well, the Americans are a bit selective (funny) sometimes. And it doesn't happen everyday even for a CAT I operator. It comes in "monthly" waves where a large area envolving cross-border countries is either very foggy or snow removing human and material resources aren't sufficient for such heavy precipitation.

[Panama Jack]

My comment was slightly tongue in cheek (I know that the sun ocasionally does come out in places like London and Frankfurt and that the mercury does screech up into the '30's there maybe once or twice a decade.) ;)

However, you mentioned something I didn't think of. In Europe they are probably more accomodating because widespread WX contingencies are more likely to happen, unlike in the Gulf where it caught a number of us by surprise.

Oh well, at least nothing more damaging than near-empty tanks, accelerated heartbeats and stained undies. :p I learned a few things that day too. :ok:

[Fox3snapshot]

Kandahah whilst having the odd mortar round hit the perimeter road is looking good after the bun fight from the other night here in the UAE.

Has taken 2 days to respond to the **** up we all enjoyed the other morning as I went into rehab at Trader Vic's in Dubai trying to restore my compsure after another MEM (Middle East Moment).

When people ask me to describe the Aviation/Air Traffic environment in the Middle East/UAE I describe it as a 3 dimensional 'Shiek Zayed Road'.....
i.e A complete cluster! :eek:

The only difference is the Dubai monorail may provide some saving grace to the catastrophic traffic situation here in Dubai....but we cant build a monorail at 15,000 feet so basically we are stuffed!! :sad:

Now, must think happy thoughts.....:rolleyes:

[Uplink]

Only one thing to say about the monorail, dont let the Brits near it!

We seem to have amazing trouble at keeping trains on the tracks?

I came in from the East and the forecast was 4k. Imagine my surprise when halfway across India DXB was forecasting 200m FG. I had also been stuffed on my levels all the way from BKK. The western part of the UAE was fogged out, the only place to go was Al Ain with the fuel I had on board. Aircraft in front went around. This did get the heart going, but I was lucky to get in.

More fog this morning I can see!!! or not as the case may be.

[Bombay HF]

Bahrain has announced plans for a mono rail, due to be completed by 2030!! Probably still be finished before the runway though.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Often used as diversion, emergency back stop.

When the fog rolled in, when asked RAK could only offer 3 parking spaces.

The apron taken up with scrap 747, and 1011, aircraft.

The Radar at RAK, was removed due to costs.....so when the flood of traffic does arrive they will have EAT of +30 each...

[Fox3snapshot]

And to add to that, they are starting an airline from there with,
A. a procedural aerodrome;
B. The procedural capability of only accepting one acft at a time; and
C. Smack bang in the middle of an already overcrowded, undermanned, equipment limited and mis-managed FIR...i.e UAE.

Oh and well done...... :D we have also just thrown in a PJE jump zone right in the middle of now the busiest and most dangerous (yes dangerous!) arrival/departure route through DARAX.

Take this opportunity to thank DUBAI APP for making the new challenge we now face in the Centre run smoothly with the departure and arrival headings for deconfliction. BZ :ok:

[divingduck]

To all our bretheren that drive north out of Dubai, Sharjah, Fuje and RAK.
With that para dropping area being active at the same time as OMR50 (over head RAK) there are probably going to be some heavy flow restrictions imposed both ways.
Given that we currently launch them, into Procedural airspace (I know I know...) 10nm in trail we can get the fleet airborne farily quickly.
With only about 6nm to get both inbounds and outbounds past each other (nose to nose, probably isn't the safest way to do this, but you work with what you have:ugh: ) this just ins't going to happen, so ther will most likely be a 5 minute between departures rate.
18-20 of you want to go at the same time, I'll let the mathmaticians work out the delays.
Were I driving one of the buses, I would seriously consider RANBI BALUS and the right turn with no delay over the alternative.
But then again, what do I know?:E

There is a problem with holding inbound from the north...the holding stack is almost impossible to get to due to the OMR 50...:ugh:

[pissedoffpilotek]

just curious as to how often there are para dropping activities when the vis has dropped to 100m!:rolleyes:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

These last couple of posts aren't specifically about the bad weather, it was just to point out the limitations we face in the UAE at the moment. Until the 13th of March for about 7 hours a day, a para dropping zone is active up to A120 right overhead MAXMO, and at the same time a restricted airspace is active alongside it A100 to FL450, for 4 of those hours, leaving UAE ACC and Dubai APP about a 6 NM gap to fire out the mass of European departures going through DARAX while also funnelling in and sequencing (??????) all the arrivals opposite direction. As DD said the holding pattern for this segment of airspace is wedged between the restricted area and the mountains. This is all contended with while also trying to sequence all the BUBIN stuff and get landers down into RAK and FUJ.

Bottom line its not pretty, but sorry it is thread creep from the bad weather topic.:ok:

[futr-kofeshop-dweler]

Fox3spunkshot wrote:

"thank DUBAI APP for making the new challenge we now face"

Yeah, cause we all in Dubai Approach sat around Friday morning, (bored out of our skulls as we usually are) and our fearless supervisor said to us...

"Hmmm guys how can we make the Centers job more difficult this morning"

We all looked at each other, blank faces, unable to think of anything...

Suddenly, one of the Kiwis got down and did a quick prayer to Satanhttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons/46.gif, (facing the USA of course) and screamed in the tounge of Bel'zebubhttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons/46.gif himself,

"I've got it!!! Let's put a 13 mile pylon in our airspace right in front of Darax up to 12,000ft, and we'll fool everyone by telling them it's for paradropping!!"

Evil shrieks and laughs we heard thru the room, one of the South Africans started doing a laughing voodoo dance around the COD position (very reminicent of that scary voodoo guy in that 007 with Roger Moore), then we sacrificed the nearest pigeon we could find on the tarmachttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons/46.gif, and put our devilish plan in motion....

To whomever in the Center is taking the "poor us" approach, guess what??? It's even more of a pain for us cause it's in our airspace! Can you believe that? Next time YOU are working WE'RE making the pylon appear on your side of Bubin at 11pm from SFC to FL240. We're thinking of calling it the "Fujairah MET Observation Circle, full of razor sharp weather balloons". You have been warned! Mwaaahahahahahaha! (evil laugh)http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons/46.gif

[CEP]

Oooh, someone wrote his reply to Fox3 BEFORE he went to bed for a good sleep!!!!!:\
Was YOUR tummy sore F-K-D?????

Thanks, Fox3, we'll take your reply for what it actually was. :ok:

This airspace is F:mad: D UP!!!!!!!!!!

[prowler]

Remember guys

NOT ONLY THE AIRSPACE IS Fu**** Up, but even the Aerodrome & its continuous Works in Progress & Adjacent Airspaces (not all..but nearly..)!!!

Besides all of us in the Sandpit, TWR & APP have to face it every single day!

So besides, the wx that comes by, the continuous works in progress & CLOSED taxyways, SMALL Airspace with ****TY OLD Procedures, coupled with Non Radar - Procedural Airspaces, doesnt make it EASY AT ALL!

Apart from this, our dear oh dear Main Operator, actually their Flight Operations, 'makes sure' that nearly ALL European destined flights FILE via SAME AIRWAY..(Maxmo/Darax).. oh SH**..Again with Tehran ACC... & ALL EXPECT TO start/up at the same time for the same Airway!!.....

and what u get on freq??? moanin & groanin.... all the time because of the FLOW CONTROL...& consequently delay....

ADD ALL this together & dont forget to include THIS BLAME FREE CULTURE we are in!!:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

The only flow control there is, is by adjacent airspaces.....

Oh yeahhhh OMDB is NO RESTRICTIONS ALL THE TIME... No CTOT.... of course..Airlines dont get a CTOT.. But who's gotta deal with it?

ATC as well....:= :ugh: :=

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

This is the full quote of what Foxy said,
Take this opportunity to thank DUBAI APP for making the new challenge we now face in the Centre run smoothly with the departure and arrival headings for deconfliction. BZ
And so in response F(u)-K-D responds with a load of rubbish about how we at the centre are feeling sorry for ourselves and how we don't understand how difficult the UAQ para dropping, OMR50, DARAX inbound-outbound situation is for DB as well. What planet is this guy from. Foxy was actually giving you and your colleagues a compliment, thanking them for making the best of a bad situation by creating an unofficial race track pattern around MAXMO the day before yesterday by using headings for all departures and arrivals.
We know very well how hard this situation is for you guys and we sympathise (well I don't sympathise with F(u)-K-D, cos he doesn't deserve any sympathy after his misguided spray) with Dubai Approaches predicament when it comes to this whole MAXMO debacle. It isn't a "my life is tougher than yours" competition, and Fox was never making it that. If he had been wanting to do that, all he would have had to do was bring up the fact that we have one line to Tehran that all ATCO's and Assistants between the two centres share, and which Tehran hardly ever answers and when they do it doesn't really help much anyway. But that is not what Fox was on about, he was pointing out the problem this area has created, and complimenting Dubai Approach on the help that they have been able to give us.
Moral of the story Foxy and DD, never give a compliment, cos this is the response you will get.:yuk:

[futr-kofeshop-dweler]

OK, razor sharp balloon airspace will only be active when ASS-A, oops ANS-A is in EEEEEEEAAAAAAAAST! (Very clever with F-u-KD, the other kids in kindergarden must have thought you were the man by the third year you were there cool guy!)

Everyone else at the center, sorry, you now get direct Lovol, less then 10nm, and verts if you want!!!

ANSA = penalty box!

Fox, sorry for jumpin on you, I should have read your thread better. Thanks for the compliment to App, but none of us here do a good job, other then CEP of course. Just tired of reading posts, especially ANSA's, about how dubai approach do this and how they do that (can look them up if you like) and he makes us out to be the instigators of this as if we enjoy 20nm gaps when we're all at our busiest. Very sorry to group you in with him.

No more thread creepin on this one from me...

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

You really don't deserve a reply, but I know what I have said in the past and your comprehension skills obviously have been as sorely lacking in reading my posts as they were reading foxes. I have regularly questioned why it takes two years to extend and strengthen a runway. If you choose to take that as a sledge against you then go for it. I have previously pointed out that the UAE FIR needs a flow system with slot times rather than this ridiculous blanket spacing through gates, and again if you choose to take that as a sledge against Dubai Approach then feel free, but it is aimed at heads much higher than yours who can actually make changes to the system we all have to work within.

Anyway it seems there is a mighty big chip weighing you down so not much point in trying to discuss things rationally with you, especially since you will be "out of here ASAP" according to your location.:ok: