NAC

[GULF69]

Any Idea Why The Nac Thread Was Removed?

69

[bathtub200]

got too hot in the kitchen:D :}

[Jetdriver]

The author chose to.

[Balmy]

I would think a call from the crew member to one of the directors (the one you chose may be important) would be the right way (probably the only way) to get answers to those questions.

[bathtub200]

As previously posted , there a number of pilots and engineers for 3 a/c one beech jet in Liberia one 1900 and 200 in Kabul and that's it.

[unmanned]

A couple of years back NAC squashed out a very senior pilot who had given them really good service, and who was very competent in my opinion for a far lessor reason than no contracts.

If there is anything out there take it. They really don't care about there pilots or engineers!

[Balmy]

Plane4sale difficult without knowing who they are directing the questions to, but, assuming they are asking the right person, and not getting the answers they need, then they surely are not going to get the answers here, just a bunch of personal opinions from people who really dont know the full story. If they have not got the answers they seek, then I would ask again, perhaps of one of the other directors, because that really is the only source that any real answers will come from.

Unmanned "They really don't care about there pilots or engineers) You really dont know what you are talking about.

[Balmy]

No not still active in any way in NAC for many years, but know a number of the people pretty well.

The pulling out of someones uninformed opinion or gripe serves no useful purpose whatsoever, and will not in any way help the staff who may well face some difficult decisions in the near future (as it would appear do the management of the company)

This needs to be dealt with internally between the current staff and the managment.

[south coast]

The reason they have gone down hill is because there is NO management.

[Fliterisk]

Balmy, you say that it should be dealt with "internally between staff and management". Perhaps this begs the question that if the issues were being dealt with, and I assume that management are now aware of the issues... ;) ;) then surely this thread wouldnt have come alive once again?

Unsubstantiated but, I think that maybe some see forums as a manner in which to vent frustrations when nothing else seems to work. It was said in the previous thread that if NAC were my company, I wouldnt be wasting any time in sorting everything out. You also speak with some authority, perhaps you know something which could put everyones mind at ease, since you categorically state that, "THERE ARE NO ISSUES". Enlighten please?:p

[Balmy]

Never said there are no issues?.......and I dont have any particular inside info..... just know this is not the way to resolve any of the issues, but has and will become a place to hang out any old hang-ups (some possibly justified others not) that anyone might have.

Seems like a waste of time to me, go and deal with it with those who can do something??

[unmanned]

This is a rumour network, not a meeting place for NAC management to resolve there problems. People are trying to find out how the rest of the industry feel about the issues and there opinions.

Sorry Balmy but you were either a blue eyed boy or you never worked there. They treat all there employees like :mad: .

[Balmy]

Still the wrong place to go for those who have stuff at stake in this and need answers. For those who have their own rather obvious petty beef it probably is a good place to wring their hands in dispair. That winging and whining has however little or nothing to do with the current issue.

Actually cant say I ever was a blue eyed boy (wish I was)...... probably the opposite....... but I also cant say I was ever treated anything but fairly.....(and I know a number of people whose experience was the same).....and I certainly was able to go and talk through any issues I had and reach some resolution (you have to have the balls to do it though). Some conclusions were favourable and others were not..... but you know what ....that's life.

You guys need to grow up, get over your pet hate, and get on with life.

[unablereqnavperf]

Hear hear Balmy I completely agree with you,its high time pilots learnt to stand up and be counted in their own right. So many are not willing to take a stand themselves and rely on others to do it for them, I know this as I have been a union rep a few times but never again will I make that mistake! Its amazing how petty and tirial some issues are and the inability of some guys to resolve them begs the question do i want this guy in charge of my aircraft?

Sorry to those of you that do sort yourselves out!

[Sir Cumference]

As a contract pilot, there are certain downsides. You get paid a lot more money than the guys back home and the reason for that is that you work in less than desirable conditions, you do not sleep in your own bed at night, food and lodgings may not be of the standard that you are used to, you fly hard and long hours, job security is questionable etc.

Guys who apply to fly contracts know this and go in with their eyes open, I think. They accept a lot of the downside as they are gaining experience and earning at the same time. If you do not like those items on the list above, stay at Lanseria, strap a 200 to your bum and fly for the charter queens and earn accordingly.

The likes of Rossair, Balmoral, KAS etc over the years have had the crews complaining of exactly the same issues. Everyone would like 'endless' job security, but the reality is that times change, contracts are won and lost. Companies come and go (Rossair and Balmoral as examples). The tide will turn and contracts will be won again and everyone will feel secure.

Plane4sale, you mention two individuals in your last post who were the subject of many posts here talking about how they would be missed etc.
They were then subject to more posts about how things had gone to pieces in their new positions!!?

Fact is that pilots who do not have enough flying are the worst whiners around. I am not saying that NAC is perfect, I never have, but they have given many of us a start in aviation and it may well be their loss that we have moved on. Plane4sale, I trust that you are not using the same people you are intent on knifing!? Ethics?

[Balmy]

Plane4Sale

Do you know the exact circumstances surrounding the departure of all the people you refer to? Very often we hear one side of the story (perhaps even from posts like the ones on this thread) and then we assume we know the story and go around and slate people on second hand info, which often has a whole bunch of spin on the ball, and little relationship to the truth.

Like one earlier post where it quotes some pilot who was let go but was in that writers opinion a better pilot than some other pilot at the company, and then he takes issue with the company for that. How arrogant.......that is just his opinion and he most probably doesnt even have all the facts?

I agree with SirC they are not perfect....but then who is.......but there are a bunch of us who got our start at NAC and who learned a whole bunch from the experience.

[Balmy]

Man you talk such unadultarated crap!!!

[I.R.PIRATE]

Great post plane4sale. you have nailed it spot on.

Balmy, you sound just like contract management type....:ouch:

[Sir Cumference]

Balmy you and I are on the same page!!

Plane4sale, what disturbs me is that it appears that you work for NAC whilst stoking the fires here for all it is worth! If you have a problem, get out from behind your anonymous computer, walk into the offices at Lanseria and ask the question. If you do not like the reply, then go knocking at Exec or Norse.

I do not have to change my attitude nor do I have to see any more light! Fact is contract flying is exactly that, when there is work, contracts and employment will be offered, when none, then make a plan. You make the mistake of expecting all the same benefits the charter pilots back home have whilst you are earning the contract bucks! Contract flying has never been easy nor will it ever be. It is not for everyone. It has been a great stepping stone for many (You too?) but it remians a choice and for those who like the lifestyle, it makes for a great career. For the rest, move on and don't feel bitter.

[Sir Cumference]

You obviously missed this part of my post:

If you have a problem, get out from behind your anonymous computer, walk into the offices at Lanseria and ask the question. If you do not like the reply, then go knocking at Exec or Norse.

Good Luck!!

[I.R.PIRATE]

Having toiled for every single company named in this thread I can categorically state:

Companies that treat pilots like turds from bad to good:

1.Naturelink
2.Nac.....................interesting that these two go together


.....does it really matter about the rest, we are discussing the worst no? Funny how staff turnover at these two are also spectacular...

Best of the rest: GO NORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Balmy]

SirC

They just dont get it do they?.....sad. very sad!!

[warloc67]

Interesting post I.R.Pirate,
If I recall correctly, these companies didn't loose a lot of tears after seeing you out the door. The old saying of burning bridges comes to mind. Specially if you fly the aircraft out from contract and leave it on the apron in SA without the companies knowledge.
Enough said, as they say, take it from whence it comes.:ugh:

[I.R.PIRATE]

remember there are reasons for every action:cool:


...and besides thats a rumour - dont believe everything you hear.:ok:

[rattex4U]

I agree with p4s, but then again Sir Cumference is not in a position to c the light :ouch:

hie hie ha ha hie hie ha ha:E :E

[Balmy]

P4S

On behalf of SirC.....what ARE you talking about?????

Warloc

Methinks you may have hit the proverbial nail right on the cranium!!!

I would hazard a guess that similar circumstances exist in most cases of the whingers.

Just a thought (which does not as yet seem to have struck home)........given that NAC has probably not ever made any profit of note out of contracts and the contracts division is rumoured to have made a loss for a while now.....then surely losing these loss making contracts would be a good thing not a bad thing.......in fact far from being a source of the demise of NAC (as it appears some would hope for and as was suggested in earlier posts) it would in fact cause an increase in its profitability???......

[Balmy]

That was for you actually........I was aware of it before this thread came up and it was the subject of several prior discussions (check my post on the original thread and earlier on this one) ......from earlier posts it had obviously been missed.......otherwise why would it be suggested that they would be facing financial difficulty because of the loss of a number of loss making contracts......?

Just trying to help you out with the logic.:)

[Balmy]

I think I already did it for him.......what on earth are you talking about??.....

[warloc67]

Balmy,

Good point, the contracts division of many companies that are also in the sales bussiness are a support structure for sales. Thus the money is made on the sale of the aircraft and if it breaks even after that on contract it's a bonus. NAC had a couple of bad contracts in which they flew before the money was in the bank (first rule on contracts:8 ) and lost out on the deal, then it's a case of cutting your loses and moving on.
The bottom line is that contracts are not soft living, management can make things better, but if you're sitting in the arsehole of the world, there's not much you can do about the smell.:}

[TooBadSoSad]

The problem with NAC using contracts to sell aircraft is that they often screwed the person they sold the aircraft to as the aircraft was overpriced and the contract far from what they promised the buyer he / she would get out of it. Then when things went pear-shaped with the contract, they simply laughed the buyer off and went in search of the next victim. Case in point is the bank run contract they used to have. They sold a certain buyer a B55 Baron with guaranteed utilisation on the bank runs and a few months later when the one specific route was shut down, they gave that owner notice and refused to place the aircraft on another route. The owner then went out and pitched to the company operating the bank runs and took the contract over from NAC. Sweet justice!! The owner of Norse Air was also screwed over by NAC on his first B1900D purchase in a similiar way and now look at how big that company has become. Also understand that Exec. T owner operates in a similiar fashion to NAC.

[Balmy]

TBSS..........I wish things were really that simple....and the reason Norse has grown has nothing whatsoever to do with the purchase of the 1900D??

[TooBadSoSad]

Balmy, I must disagree! Although a lot of Norse's most recent growth has little to do with that particular B1900D, the initial growth was forced on Norse in order to recover from the massive financial damage that initial aircraft caused the owner!! It is called averaging! The more you have, the less the impact of one bad component.

[unmanned]

Balmy

Fact Year 2000 3 pilots were retrenched because they were paid R2000 more than the Streamline pilots at the merge on NAC and Streamline.

Fact 2003 2 pilots left and their retirement fund were held back illegally because of a bond that had never been signed or even mentioned. Until such time as the pilots succumb to being bullied into signing that NAC could deduct that money from there retirement money. (hopelessly illegal but what can he do earning R6000 a month)

Fact 2004 1 pilot was asked to leave because he did not pass his ATP when they said he must. The reason being that they thought he was actually earning more than he was worth and nothing to do with ATP.

What a bunch of :mad: heads, SORRY?

Guess what they are still doing the same to all the guys, and you defend them, NAC exploits people!!!

[Balmy]

Firstly

I have not defended anybody.....but have simply said the winging of ex employees (or even wors of disloyal current employees) never helped anyboby with anything except perhaps to make these sad individuals feel sorry for themselves

Secondly
From your post it is apparent that you are not one of the individuals involved so how you can state the details as fact escapes me.

What I really love is how you know the motives behind all these things......so are we to understand that necause of your close and loyal ties with the company you were privy to the intimate details of these matter.......

Or did you perhaps get them from a whinging pilot??

Were I a betting man I know which I would lay money on???

[bathtub200]

Balmy it seems that by telling by NAC management and a few people on this thread to face reality , is like trying to stick a needle up a porcupine's a$#e.
Here's an interesting story that has recently surfaced.
1) NAC buys 13x 1900's D from Australia
2) 1900's get all dolled up and look nice and shiny
3) Salesman/s sell 1900's to buddys and other customers with 3 years free maintenance and 60 hrs guaranteed on a contratc somewhere in the world.
Tell me , where in this %*%^#@* (%*%^#@&) do you sell a s/h 1900 D with 3 years free maintenance.?
Salesman/s pocket commisssion.
4)First year in Algeria , NAC contracts make nice profit
5) Second year in Algeria ,Nac contracts makes huge profit,R.L. is a big hero.
6) Third year , 8 engines + 1 prop are damaged .Engines plus minius anything between $200,000-$400,000 to repair.Profit has been eaten into.
7) Fourth year , 7 engines + 2 propellers are damaged , profit kitty now in the red.
So salesman/s sell a/c , pocket commission and NAC contrats pays for every nut and bolt and all the inspections that were done on the aircraft .The owners got the a/c maintained for free,nada,gratis.
As the saying goes " makes you think"

[Sir Cumference]

Thanks for answering on my behalf, Balmy. You summed it up with

I think I already did it for him.......what on earth are you talking about??.....

P4s, for the record I am not Patches whoever that may be, secondly my comments about RL were simply that he ran the contracts division for a good few years and the day he decided to leave the knives were drawn by the likes of you who slated NAC!? My comment related to the fact that HE was the one running contracts for a good few years and surely he should be partly to blame?

'Was RL not at the helm of NAC Contracts for the past 10 or so years? Must he not bear some of the responsibility for the perceived unhappiness?'

When it comes to ethics, for the record I have not worked for RL nor under him at any time, nor have I claimed to have done so. So your comments about glass houses are groundless.

[Request FL450]

Just face it, NAC is up to *#@ and has been for 3 years now ( or to pinpoint it a bit better the day E. el-pricko stepped through the doors).

Fact : They dont give a crap about their crew, their thinking is "if you dont like it, theres the door, lots more where you came from" and I speak of personal experience. Mister El-pricko himself told me, and I quote " you guys that have been here for 2 years + must move on now, I feel guilty seeing the gofers walk up and down the isles and not flying" what a complete A-hole..have you ever heard of contract min requirements ? Certain areas where you would like like someone to have more than just the 1hr (NAC old standard) conversion time behind their name ?????

I started my career at NAC, but the person who made that possible left the ranks a long time ago, so in my mind I dont owe NAC anything but rather the good people that USE to be there.. I say good riddance to bad rubbish, the gap will be filled and the NAC crew can go to a company who appreciates their crew and actually looks after them..

Good thing old E. el-pricko doesnt work on a " Performance Allowance"
his pension would be gone by now at the rate hes going..

Nuf` said..