2 NJE Pilots fired

[Bikerpilot]

My 2 friends who were unfairly dismissed by NJE several months ago ( Paris Courtyard incident ) have accepted cash payments by NJE to settle out of court.

They are not allowed to discuss the amounts or the case.

This proves that they were unfairly treated throughout the whole process.

Good luck boys, you've moved onto far better jobs , as have Peter and I as well............

[Aussie]

Care to tell the rest of us how they were fired... or why?

Cheers

[CL300]

Like in every company mishaps, faults, misunderstandings exists. Sometimes it leads to only disciplinary actions sometimes it goes further out. Anyways, this is "shop talking" and should NOT be shared in public. Even on the private forum, the people involved did not disclose anything.
If you happen to join NetJets one day, you will be free to ask questions, after having signed the non-disclosure and confidential agreement. Until then, speculates but pass on...:=

[barista]

Why?

Should this be secret because your loved company did wrong? They fire these guys and now it is for all to see that this should not have happened. They tell them to get out we don't care abot if you did wrong or not we want to scaer the others so we fire you.

Then uh oh. This time they pick the wrong guys. These guys do not lie down so insted of our joke called loyalty bonus these guys get a check not to make trouble for the fools who fire them.

This is how Netjets treats people. Any one who thinks of joining should know this in advance. Not when they inside the gates and too late my friend we have you now and can do what we want to you.

Why do you not want wanabes to now this CL300? Was this your mess?

[PPRuNe Towers]

CL300, gathering what little respect I can muster you are wrong.

You are so wrong I think you should consider using another website more suited to your silly, self centred, ingratiating, smug, inward hagiographic tosh.

Every pilot using hotels should know what happened. Every pilot who using Paris hotels should know.

Everyone of us, including my crew, should know about the Marriot Courtyard and the actions of their staff allied with a shoot from the lip, vindictive company management. We should know because we stay there as well.

You really need to get out more don't you? Dirty washing my arse - it's a service to the flying community and it signals, yet again, to managers everywhere that the 'forensics' available in this electronic world we now live in will cut them off at the knees any time they take on the intelligent and determined.

As it happens I have warned NJE of this in writing on this forum a couple of years ago. I also warned a fleet manager last autumn in writing that electronics and CCTV would bite their arses. I'm only glad that they're had their noses rubbed in it over an industrial issue rather than an accident investigation.

Rob

[H.Finn]

Now, could somebody tell us what happened?

[CL300]

A little bit of confusion here,

from the Chief of Towers : The way that the Courtyard Marriott in CDG is using or not; is disclosing or not or behave wrongly with electronic datas; this should be ( if proved to have been used against, and outside the scope and limitations outlined in their approved eletronic datas disclosure agreement with the french state) , widely spread, not only for pprune readers but to everyone in the community including normal customers attending one of the numerous conferences held there. This is not my point though..

Whatever happen within and inside a company DOES NOT have to be held public, especially if an agreement settle the case. These informations have to be held within the company period.

Now , since you want your crew and EVERYONE to know about the practices you are outlining, Put it on the home page of pprune!! send emails to all of registered pilots!!

And with all respects, your behaviour and your wording have nothing to be on a public post.

Barista;

I'm not going to go through this particuliar incident in public; however, if YOU think YOU DO POSSESS ALL the informations about it; and that you feel confident to publish it in public, why don't you do it ? Are you afraid of backfire? Are you not that sure? Are you too sure ? For what ever reason, do what you think is the best, my participation to this thread was only a quick reminder, that whatever you are thinking, think twice before disclosing it in public..

[Smeagel]

Courtyard Hotel Roissyville.

Half a dozen employees (not all flight crew) stayed up late. In the early hours the police arrived on a routine visit and advised the hotel staff that they were in breach of local law having served alcohol in the lobby.

Hotel staff asked NJE employees (only one of whom was drinking by this time, non-flight crew and day off the next day) if they could clear the table. Said employees agreed that of course they could. There was a discussion about this 'law' but nothing more. (The rumour mill of course went wild, one version had the crew fighting with the police!). The hotel staff did a great job of fabricating conversations between the police (who did not speak English) and some of the crew (who do not speak French). Telepathy maybe?

Hotel staff then submit reports. Why? Who knows. Arse covering exercise perhaps. I believe they have also done this before to other companies. Anyone from CityJet care to comment? They also released copies of personal data, not just that relating to the company (NJE) account.

Over zealous office staff and management (including one who is renowned for being a 'sociable person' themself) at NJE in Lisbon then go on a witch hunt ignoring all due process and evidence from it's own employees. Subsequent reports from Courtyard hotel staff are requested by NJE but these are shown to be even more wild, inaccurate and contradictory than the first ones.

NJE management are on a mission though. The ineffectual ones guided by their junior zealots. Could it have something to do with some of these pilots having set up a crew forum which was adopted by the union movement within NJE? Who knows? Odd that said person was targetted and other crew members with just as much time in company were left alone.

CL300. No doubt you wil tell us how this was handled fairly etc. You imply that you know all about it. Well do not forget to include the part about the managers who approached one of these employees and promised they would be protected if they told management what they wanted to hear ie, turn on their colleagues. How did they reward this person? By immediately letting it be known that they had done so! Bravo!! Excellent management.

I saw the evidence for and against and I'm telling you now the things said by the Courtyard staff would be laughable were it not so serious, my 3 year old could make up a more convincing story. Gaping holes and contradictions in the allegations against these people were blatantly ignored by the NJE managers running the kangaroo court. Ask the people concerned, I am sure they would be happy to show you the documents. Ask the pilots though if you want to see ALL of it, not your good friends in Lisbon (and you are very close to them are you not?). Not the papers with sections blacked out or even the first email from the hotel which NJE witheld because it did not tally with a later one. All of it.

This is not the first time Netjets Europe has been taken to court by it's (ex)employees. I am fairly sure though that this is the first time NJE did not win. Remember the famous incident of a very senior manager telling the court that the company had no presence or interests in the UK and should not therefore be subject to UK employment law?

Ultimately this has a happy ending. The two pilots now have far better jobs as do those who resigned in disgust at their treatment. Myself included.

Wonder why they are having trouble retaining pilots and attracting new ones? At a company introductory course in January only 5 of the 15 new hires even bothered to show up!!

Everything else might be 'just a plane' but at least those other planes have crew to fly them. How many on the NJE fleet will be grounded this summer for lack of people to fly them as pilots resign at a constant rate of one a week or more depending on who you believe? NJE of course will not say anything or when they do give varying figures.

Anyone thinking of joining the company needs to seriously consider being treated the way these people were. CL300's threat (above) toward barista is also a typical example.

[CL300]

Hello smeagel, nice to read you again,

You decided to put the matter on the public place, It does not affect me at all. I'm not in the office either, I'm just a normal captain, doing my job on a day to day basis.
I did not have and still do not have all the elements of this matter, this is why I do not dare to comment the outcome or the event itself, however since the people involved did not publicized the settlement with or without details, I can only assume that they do not wish to do so. So why should someone external do it? And why on a public forum ?
I have no idea how it was handled, except one phone call that I witnessed with one of the person involved; apart from that no ideas, no facts but the rumours heard here and there.

My concern is always the same; when time comes to dirty laundry, wash it internally, not in public; nobody wins of those situations.

[Smeagel]

CL300.

It is almost certain those involved were advised by their lawyers not to comment in such a public forum while the matter was 'sub judice'. From the outcome it would seem that the 'Walk softly and carry a big stick' approach paid off for them.

It will also be a condition of their out of court settlement that they not disclose the details of any amount they received which is quite normal in these cases so there is nothing to be read into this. In any event it is not about those who were wronged but those who perpetrated the wrongdoing.

Let me ask you something. Imagine you wanted to buy a house but the owner told you that you could not inspect it or have anyone do so on your behalf. You were not even allowed to ask the owners, tenants or neighbours about it. Would you buy it?

Why then are you so insistent that those with knowledge of this company keep information from those on the outside, particularly those who are considering working there? I know you are not management but you do have a close relationship with some in Lisbon and without fail always defend their actions in here.

[manligsak]

so now we can drink as much as we like all the time........... perhaps not in the courtyard though,,,,,

[CL300]

Smeagel, use PM may be to disclose such infos ?

[chinny]

I'm with smeagel on this.:ok:
Netjets,in my opinion, have for far too long(Management) thought themselves above all else-justifiably or not-this sort of thing is NOT washing in public, as no names were mentioned and only a few within the Co will be able to ascertain who the individuals are.
What would have happened if a ramp check had showed up a discrepancy-would there have been backing for the pilots from the Co.:= Guys and gals need to know if a Co will back them up first ,until prooven guilty, not until prooven INNOCENT !!!! before they think about working for them.
All the pilots I have met and know in Nj are a good bunch and PROFESSIONAL-in this day and age, as aircrew, you cant afford to get tied in on the wrong side of the fence with alcohol. with the story smeagal has told why would mangement want to believe what some hotel staff have said over their guys. NO support there:= .sounds like animosity to me.
They should have worked harder at school:oh:

VTSP
cc

[Smeagel]

CL300.

Go ahead.

[erikv]

I see many here jump to the conclusion that because this was settled out of court, those involved must have been innocent. I don't know all the details either, but do know that 'imperfections' in the handling of the case and the resulting mutual loss of trust are sufficient reasons not to continue the working relationship and reach an agreement. This leaves the question of guilt open, while closing the case.

Shall we consider it closed? Those involved must be happy to close this chapter and go on with their lives.

Erik.

[CL300]

What would have happened if a ramp check had showed up a discrepancy-would there have been backing for the pilots from the Co. Guys and gals need to know if a Co will back them up first ,until prooven guilty, not until prooven INNOCENT !!!! before they think about working for them.

Company on an operationnal stand point is ALWAYS supportive, on personnal matters it is second to none as well.
However there is sensitive subjects,(alcohol, level busts, among others ) and if you do not appear to be humble enough at some stages, you will have to accept an invitation for tea and/without biscuits. ( it is general policy not any individual event).
If you feel that you HAVE to ground an aircraft, do it, if you can justify yourself to your fleet manager, mainenance manager , DOO, or else that this is the only safe option, nobody would do anything to you; Now if you are drunk 2 hours prior to the show and do not call in sick; that you walk to the aircraft with an alcohol level that would triggers unknown colors in any normal breathalizer and that you are ramp checked, I'm sorry to say, that you should not be there for a start. I do not think that this is a NTA only position. (again I'm not commenting the marriott incident, this example is pure speculation -- NO SMILEYS)

The only thing I can tell about NTA, is its support when something REALLY important happens to yourself (accident, death, illness of somebody close to you for example); the company will drop you off line immediately, will send you home immediately with full pay (wherever you are), the time it is necessary for you to settle. There is NO other aviation business that can do that for you today....

Now you can try to find, holes, unfairness, discrimatory situations, you name it; but bottom line...there is ALWAYS one, this is the EASIEST GA-TYPE company to work for.

[hawkerpilot]

Everything else might be 'just a plane' but at least those other planes have crew to fly them. How many on the NJE fleet will be grounded this summer for lack of people to fly them as pilots resign at a constant rate of one a week or more depending on who you believe? NJE of course will not say anything or when they do give varying figures.


Netjets will find out the hard way this summer, the people who have spend more than a few years are completely fed up.
me) or are going to leave soon. Netjets has no future.


You have either left allready (like me) or are leaving soon. Netjets has no future

[barista]

I don't know all the details either

You do not yet you feel oblige to say the matter of guilt is still open? Nice coleague.

If the Co were so sure they did the right thing would they not have gone the hole nine yards? Yet they did not. This tells us all we need to know. Once again this company abuse the rights of crew only this time they did not walk away clean.

[efis78]

Well guys...I've always heard that there is my version, your version and the right version. That said....

Regards all

Efis

[Smeagel]

You dredged this up after a month to say.........that?

Oh, hold on. Now I see your location (coincidentally close to NJE head office) and in the interview thread you say they just offered you a job:rolleyes:

Like to see your posts after a year or so.:hmm:

[efis78]

Just posted now, cause I just saw it now and u really made me regret it doing so....oh well....

[Smeagel]

Why would they? Not once have I ever been right:hmm:

[the bald eagle]

Carry on the bun fighting lads...this is better than east enders, coronation street and big brother all rolled in to one!!