Virgin Blue to place 7 firm orders for B777-300ER's & 6 options [Archive]

beaver_rotate

20th Feb 2007, 03:18

Sounds great! I wonder what will be the go with SO's/Cruise FO's? Should open up a few doors for us lot in GA; considering a number of us have been turned off the idea of working for 'Australia's finest *cough*'. :ok: Good on em'!
BR

Ohh sorry and ...
bbbbbbbbbbbb zzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :D weirdo

Yusef Danet

20th Feb 2007, 03:28

Beav, you'd be far better off grabbing one of the 150+ FO jobs on 737s and EMBs coming up in the next 18ish months.
If it all turns pear shaped, time spent in the third seat slapping yourself to stay awake won't count for much. And if it succeeds, you'll get awful sick of the 13,000 km of nothing between here and there. Rocky overnights are a touch less glamourous but you'll be able to tell people you're a pilot, without blushing and qualifying the statement.

OPT/MAX

20th Feb 2007, 03:37

Come on now Mr. Buzzy, all these ex pats that have been bagging the VB way for so long can see their in road..... God help anyone who stands in their way... i can feel the footprint on my back already :hmm:

And yes, good news all round :)

ernestkgann

20th Feb 2007, 07:52

I haven't been bagging it. Hopefully it'll be very similar to when VB originally started when all the B737 qual'd guys returned home.

Karmakoma

20th Feb 2007, 07:57

A beer and a T-bone in Rocky is heaps better than that crap they call 'beer' and an overpriced slab of beef at 'the daily grill':E

Aussie

20th Feb 2007, 09:38

anyone know when these flights are likely to commence?

sinala1

20th Feb 2007, 09:57

Aussie: They are saying at this stage last quarter of 2008

atiuta

20th Feb 2007, 11:25

Any truth to the rumour about type rated Emirates TRE's/TRI's being approached by VB?

ShockWave

20th Feb 2007, 12:07

Who knows? but if the aircraft aren't arriving til late 2008 it would be a bit early to go recruiting trainers just yet.
Also isn't the VB int company going to be a separate identity from the domestic VB? If so then why do the local VB guys expect to get on them?
No offence intended.
On a cost basis alone employing 140 already qualified and experienced 777
crew would be a huge win for the new start up. If you add up the numbers of expat 777 Australian crews out there, 140 would be a small percentage. Emirates, Brunei, Vietnam, Korean...
Unfortunately for VB I think that even a smaller percentage of them will want to work for what VB int will be prepared to pay but we will see, early days yet..

Aussie

20th Feb 2007, 12:40

What are they paying? there has been no talk of T&C yet has there?

sinala1

20th Feb 2007, 21:11

If so then why do the local VB guys expect to get on them?

Because Cabin Crew, and I am pretty sure Pilots, recieved an email from senior management stating that we "Will have first right of refusal" for the new jobs.

What it didnt state was terms/conditions etc

4PW's

20th Feb 2007, 21:59

Such an odd term, 'first right of refusal'.

Why the emphasis on refusing?

Why not first 'right of acceptance', 'first rights' or just 'youse'll geddit first me ol' matey's'?

Then again, an elegant and more simple word like 'priority' would answer very nicely, indeed.

Sigh...never mind.

The Emirates, Korean, Vietnam and now Royal Brunei Aussie-expat pilots won't give a jot for which words DJ Management are alleged to have used.

:E :E :E

Mr.Buzzy

20th Feb 2007, 22:09

On a cost basis alone employing 140 already qualified and experienced 777 crew would be a huge win for the new start up.

Isn't it grand how pilots will see a "management angle" to justify cutting someone elses grass?

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zz

Capt Basil Brush

20th Feb 2007, 23:40

VB pilots have been told many times (in writing as well) that they will have access to the long-haul flying, and it it is an ongoing EBA issue. Ongoing for how long, who knows??

It seems some people on here have shown their willingness to return, and cut fellow pilots grass no matter what.

With 'protected industrial action' (or whatever its called under Howards Gov) being mooted, and long-haul being a current VB EBA issue - the grass cutters will be known as SC@BS!!

Ironic if some of you were involved in 1989.

2p!ssed2drive

21st Feb 2007, 00:39

Would the pilot salary differ from the guys who do short haul?

Contract Con

21st Feb 2007, 06:54

Capt. Basil,

Yes indeed, however, most 89'ers are gettin a bit old now days to bother.

Fortunes made elsewhere and yachts well and truly ordered!

Cheers,

Con:ok:

Higs

21st Feb 2007, 07:07

Oh boy.
Interesting how this one will work out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that every Virgin operation is seperate to the other. There must be enormous pressure to keep it this way with all the rated and current people offshore.
As far as the "contributing to the reduction of salaries" argument goes, I assume this started when the original Virgin Blue started!

404 Titan

21st Feb 2007, 07:46

ShockWave

On a cost basis alone employing 140 already qualified and experienced 777
Not if their current practice of charging new pilots for their endorsement is continued with the B777 operation. After all they make a profit out of it with the B737 operation.

Enema Bandit's Dad

21st Feb 2007, 07:57

Isn't it grand how pilots will see a "management angle" to justify cutting someone elses grass?

Mr Buzzy, isn't that a bit rich coming from you when you once stated that pilots should pay for their endorsements? :uhoh:

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzz

Mr.Buzzy

21st Feb 2007, 08:30

EBD,

have never said that anyone "should" pay for endorsements.

Fu*ked if I will sit back and watch a kiwi (no disrespect intended) take my jet job in my country just because he is willing to buy an endorsement and I am not.

Don't whinge to me.... Whinge to Howard.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

bzbzzbzz

yachtno1

21st Feb 2007, 08:49

Butit would be okay if an Ozzer did ? :confused:

tryhard

21st Feb 2007, 09:12

I know I've been caned already. But there will be 777 guys from CX (me included) that will return home to grab a spot. CXSUX. Time to come home. I'm only the tip of the iceberg.......

wrongwayaround

21st Feb 2007, 09:36

tryhard,

is this true?

to live in australia, [and this is simple i know] - you will take a pay cut, work your a*se off, operate to decreased T&C's.. all the long line of degradations to your career...

Personal opinion I know. But I thought CX was the pot of gold. Still do.

Aussie

21st Feb 2007, 10:13

Not according to Tryhard!

See Fragrant harbour posts to view his opinion!

Going Boeing

21st Feb 2007, 10:20

VB are about to order enough aircraft to operate a twice daily service to the US west coast and still have capacity spare. I suspect that they have at least one other destination on their radar.

tryhard

21st Feb 2007, 10:21

I am averaging 7-9 days off a month. Rosters abominable. Hotels scrape the bottom of the barrell. Average 10 days away from kids per month. Pollution intollerable, wife miserable. No time to get out of Hong Kong. Never get any requests. Never get any days off either side of leave. Min rest layovers every where we go. Crew contol are complete mutants. Management are advanced mutants. C of Service diminishing, no profit share, no morale, fear culture, racist CEO, absolute mountain of BS to go to the left seat. No pot of gold here mate.......I'm out, lots to follow...

74world

21st Feb 2007, 10:45

G'day,
Anyone knows when the "new" VB will be recruiting for the 777s???

Ready to come home even if I have to pay for a type rating and take a huge paycut!!!....... :ok:

Gnadenburg

21st Feb 2007, 14:49

Buzzy said Isn't it grand how pilots will see a "management angle" to justify cutting someone elses grass?

The initial cadre of Virgin Blue training captains were paid just 100K a year. Almost 50% less than the incumbants at QF & Ansett.

First Officers paid for their endorsement training and were initially paid 69K. These conditions were draconian compared to QF & AN F/O's.

These few short years ago, the pilots of the incumbants felt the Virgin Blue pilots were grasscutters and undermining the future of the aviation industry in Oz. A benchmark had been set and Virgin Blue pilots cheaply exposed a vulnerable professional pilot pysche ( or lack there of ). Jetstar was created as a consequence by Dixon from valuable lessons learned.

I wish the best for Virgin Blue crews. However, what goes around comes around, aviation karma etc- will probably take less than half a pilot's generation to play out.

What's the market rate for a 777 pilot in Oz? What a Virgin Blue pilot wants?

Or what a wealthy, type endorsed expat dictates? One who has accumulated taxation credits for use in OZ and puts a six figure value on the Australia lifestyle?

Welcome to the market you lot created!

atiuta

21st Feb 2007, 15:55

Thank you for responding so eloquently, nice title as well.

With 'protected industrial action' (or whatever its called under Howards Gov) being mooted, and long-haul being a current VB EBA issue - the grass cutters will be known as SC@BS!!

So please enlighten us all as to the difference between a VB pilot joining EK as a DEC on the B777, and an EK pilot joining VB as a DEC on the B777?

I know most people will say absolutely zero difference, but at least the EK pilot is type rated.

You appear to have made a some what hypocritical statement as I can see no record of an equivalent level of animosity towards your brethern when they went to EK, in fact you probably had a beer with them.

In other words, "pot calling kettle black".

BIKKERDENNAH

21st Feb 2007, 22:40

Touche atuita!!!:D

Enema Bandit's Dad

22nd Feb 2007, 00:10

Sorry Mr. Buzzy, I have to disagree with you as I remember the post well as The Enema Bandit got banned for life because of his response to your post supporting pilots paying for their endorsements. Unfortunately it would apperar that the post has been removed. May have had something to do with the banning perhaps?? :}

Chris Higgins

22nd Feb 2007, 00:34

This entire post has been hilarious to read over a beer! We should have more just like this one!:p

bbzzzzzbburrrppp!!:}

Mr.Buzzy

22nd Feb 2007, 02:24

EBD,
if you are looking for a whipping boy, please go right ahead, (I quite like it) but I can assure you that I have never said we "should" pay for an endorsement. I mean why would anyone want to fork out 20k to work?

My points have always been very simple.

Australian employers (at present) can expect new hires to be endorsed.

There is no shortage of pilots waving dollars. (only need to see how many are still applying to QF for 100k cadetships)

Why would anyone not "compete"? (unless of course you are held to some opinion that the fairy godmother will note your strong moral fibre and grant you a jet job.)

This crap state of affairs will not change until it is either legislated against, the pilot shortage finally takes hold or pilots stand united "globally" and we all know that we can't unite ourselves so what hope do we have of that happening?

bbzbzbzbzbwhereubeenchris?zzzbzbzzzzzzz

Enema Bandit's Dad

22nd Feb 2007, 03:02

I know you like whippimg. Your wife told me. I definitely know you supported paying for endorsements because my son got banned from voicing his opinion on your opinion.
bbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz

Tankengine

22nd Feb 2007, 03:08

Gdadenburg,
The "correct" rate of pay should be`somewhere between Qantas 744 and A330.!:ok: Also look at SQ 777 pay for Brissie based crews!
Any less demeans the profession and continues the slide.:ugh:

Capt Basil Brush

22nd Feb 2007, 03:33

atiuta,

1. How many VB pilots have joined EK as direct entry Capts? I dont know of any. 99% of the VB pilots who went to EK were 737 FO's with no previous jet experience, and the 737 Capts I know of have all gone to EK as FO's.

2. If there are any, how many joined during an ongoing EBA battle? (which includes crewing the 777's)

3. There is NO animosity towards EK pilots at all, the VB pilots who went to EK went as FO's - not grasscutters. There is a big difference.

4. Come home if you like, I have heard J* will not be able to crew their 787's - and are very worried about it. The money on offer will probably be identical anyway.

Pot NOT calling the kettle black.

Gnadenburg

22nd Feb 2007, 04:09

Basil Brush

There are two, maybe three, Virgin Blue captains interviewing for Direct Entry Commands at EK as we speak!

I know. I saw one of them yesterday! :}

Mr.Buzzy

22nd Feb 2007, 04:26

EBD,
I am a wage earner just like the next bloke. I do not like giving money away and have never said that we "should":ok:

Your son was banned for getting steamed up in a similar way to yourself.

I hate the concept of buying endorsements; however in OZ at present, buying an endorsement is just another hoop to jump in gaining employment, no different to psych. courses, prep courses, instrument rating renewals etc.

Don't do it and you dont meet the minimum requirements for application.

Supply/Demand... This has been done to death.

bbbbbbzzzzzzzzzbbbbz

Enema Bandit's Dad

22nd Feb 2007, 04:30

Don't worry, I'm not getting steamed up, just pointing out an inconsitency.
How is that lovely wife of yours too? :ooh:

bbbbbIpayforendorsementszzzzbbbbbbbzzzzzz

1830

22nd Feb 2007, 04:42

Hi
Can anyone help a poor lost aussie LAME. I have embraer 190 type rating on my engineers licence. I am trying to find a good line maintenance contact to send my cv to so i can return home and work in the sunshine!
Any help or potential leads of contacts with line managers of VB would be ace!
e mail me any leads

thanks
a lost aussie in europe!

atiuta

22nd Feb 2007, 05:39

So, it would be OK for an EK pilot to take a J* job but not a VB one.

Pot STILL calling Kettle black.

Furthermore, your math indicates at least one VB Captain joining as an FO and by correlation, 99 VB FO's joining as EK FO's. 100+ ?? I don't think so.

Credibility chum, but I guess that just confirms the rest of your post.

Too be honest, I don't want your job but the wind up was worth it.

Gnadenburg is quite correct and I doubt you know all of the applicants that may have been here, not the sort of thing people advertise and DEC's are amongst them.

Aussie

22nd Feb 2007, 06:37

SQ has BNE based 777crews?:confused:

Capt Basil Brush

22nd Feb 2007, 11:33

Actually atiuta, I saw your post before you edited it - and your case is still weak. Plus, you still have not answered any of my questions.

Comprehension is obviously not one of your stronger points is it?

From what I have heard (and I take it back if its not true, and you can stay where you are, or join as a FO) is that J* believe they will not be able to crew all their 787's when they arrive - ie EK pilots will not be taking anyone's job if they join J* in this case. Perhaps someone from J* could enlighten us with more of the facts - and whether or not they would welcome you guys with open arms like you expect VB pilots to?

The 99% figure I mentioned was a guess, it does not mean that 100+ VB pilots have gone to EK as you have alluded to. A % does not have to = 100 all the time. I think the numbers are actually close to 16 VB pilots (over the last couple of years) of which 3 were 737 Capts, and NONE as DEC. As to who else is being interviewed, you are correct I dont know who they are, or whether they are going for DEC.

You mention credibility ("chum" - that also says a bit more about yourself) I suggest you have a good long hard look at yourself, before you have a go at other peoples credibility. I am glad you dont want my job - and I definately dont want yours! That makes us even.

Oh, and one last thing, I dont get wound up. So bad luck on that one.

farrari

22nd Feb 2007, 15:40

What age can Australian commercial pilot fly internationally to, understand no limit around here in Australia but limit to places like America, is that correct.

kdf155

22nd Feb 2007, 18:00

All individual interests aside I trully hope the VB guys get themselves a decent pay deal on the 777. Does not matter who flies them as long as the conditions are decent.

The Jetstar international contract is slave labour at best( Minimum days off at home in OZ) and poor money in comparison to other airlines on the world stage.

Expect the usual managament sell on this one.
1.We can get EK guys to come back for x%less
2.Jetstar Int jets x%less
3.If you dont take x deal you guys will lose the jobs.

I really hope it is a good deal in the end for the guys and gals. Sadly I think it will end in another race to the bottom with management high fives all round.With so many groups with different agendas should be easy to play you all off against each other.VB 737 pay +5% at best to fly longhaul back of the clock. Be a good result with a pilot shortage on the horizon.
Hope I'm proved wrong.
:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Gnadenburg

23rd Feb 2007, 00:28

If a bunch of Aussie expats come home and crew the operation, it has to be good for market pressures for pilots. EK especially, would face more crewing pressure, and CX too would face small but noticable attrition ( coupled with their current and predicted resignations ).

If Virgin Blue pilots get the gig. They are replaced by more guys willing to buy their endorsements and accept the soiled conditions of a low cost pilot. A status quo for market forces.

It would be better for market forces if the Virgin Blue pilots wallowed in the pig's pen they created and expatriates came home putting real wage pressures on conditions abroad.

However, smelling the fear amongst the VB pilots at the moment, I predict they will capitulate spectacularly. Boasting cliches such as they will take the endorsement and vote with their feet- and wait for it- then become Direct Entry Commanders at the likes of Emirates.

Australian pilots. Could you go any lower?

BAE146

23rd Feb 2007, 00:42

Don't be surprised to see the EMB & 777 crewed by pilots on separate AWAs. The sabre rattling over the latest EBA negotiations has really pissed off VB management and they want to get the ball rolling with these new aircraft.

Good luck :ugh:

OPT/MAX

23rd Feb 2007, 00:51

Gnadenburg, how pathetic. Yet another ill concieved swipe by a less than informed expert. Are you an expat? If so I suggest you wallow in the country you chose to call home because you were more interested in the dollar than a life.... Enjoy the golden handcuffs :hmm:

Something about a pig's pen???

Hydrant

23rd Feb 2007, 01:25

OPT/MAX hardly an "ill concieved swipe !!!"
Gnadenburg is spot on in his summation.
I think old Gnadenburg is having a whale of a time with "the golden handcuffs" and the financial rewards he enjoys being an expat:} :} :}
When the time is right the repatriation of experienced 777 aircrew from abroad with financial stability well and truly behind them will demonstrate to the VB pilot group how the big aviation wheel turns. :ok: :ok: :ok:

Chris Higgins

23rd Feb 2007, 01:27

So..how much for a 777 endorsement?! Can anyone working at VB even put up that kind of dough? It could be a pretty hard thing to get started anyway.

Warped Wings

23rd Feb 2007, 01:29

OPT/MAX
HOW DARE YOU take a swipe at pprune's self appointed expert on the global pilot employment market!
Gnadenburg's inspired insight into the mentality off ALL 560 VB pilots is nothing short of amazing. Lets just hope the expat's can come home and save us from ourselves because surely we know nothing about "raising the bar".
And don't anyone dare suggest his posts reflect his own pathetic fears for his expat plight and have nothing to do with "market forces". := :yuk:

OPT/MAX

23rd Feb 2007, 01:31

My point being that expat's created they're situation, yet pine to come home(now it seems, at any cost). VB guys chose they're situation and now some whinge about it. Whats the difference?? We don't need a lecture from someone who at the end of the day stands on a soap box to tell everyone he is exact same selfish pr1ck that we all are!! :}

You guys want the 777, have it. Enjoy working for the newly formed company. I hope you don't expect to get treated like you are now though.... You'll see what I mean :E

OPT/MAX

23rd Feb 2007, 01:34

You're right WW. What was I thinking. He sounds like management material :D

Gnadenburg

23rd Feb 2007, 01:45

What you do for a living OPT/MAX, I wouldn't call living.

But I smell your fear and am happy to bet a vintage port on a capitulation of sorts, by your pilot group.

I stand by my comments it is better for pilot conditions that you wallow in the low cost conditions you created, and new Virgin Blue long haul positions are filled by pilots whose attrition affects an airline's bottom line! For example, if EK losted a swag of 777 pilots on top of it's current resignation rate, all of a sudden it is well back on the drag curve. And is training for attrition rather than expansion.

Good luck to Virgin Blue pilots though. I will take my hat off to you on this forum if you are men rather than mice.

dodgybrothers

23rd Feb 2007, 02:21

Imagine if they did losted all those pilots, I guess they'd be really screwied then.

Gnadenburg

23rd Feb 2007, 03:54

if they did losted all

Thanks for picking up the typo DodgyBrothers.

Do you have secretarial longings? Or are you another touchy low cost aviator?

74world

23rd Feb 2007, 05:32

G'day Chris Higgins,

It cost US $17.000 for a 777 type rating, let me know if you need the name of a school I can PM you....:cool:

I read that a lot of comments are on PAY, have you guys ever heard of "quality of life"?

Try to work and live in ****ty Asia or the sand pit! :mad:

Wizofoz

23rd Feb 2007, 05:43

Try to work and live in ****ty Asia or the sand pit!

...Or Maquarie Fields, or Campbelltown!!

Sorry 74, but "Quality of life" is directly linked to "Disposable Income".

Billionaires in Asia and the ME have a GREAT life, paupers in Australia don't!!

74world

23rd Feb 2007, 05:49

Really Wizofoz? well you don't go to far in DXB with 19.000 Dihrams!

Sure Billionaires in Asia or in the ME have a great life, but how many of them are pilots? :eek:

Finally I'm sure there are much worse jobs in Oz than working for VB don't you agree?....... also it doesn't matter how much a company is willing to pay, it will never be enough, that's human nature! ;)

Left Seat

23rd Feb 2007, 08:59

Im amazed at the judgement some people make without knowing all the facts...I am not claiming I do so dont ask me to enlighten you all. Instead of hanging #@it on your fellow colleagues support them. I hear the 86 % of VB pilots are really standing there ground, who knows they may come out on top. Stay strong 86er's !

Gnadenburg

24th Feb 2007, 10:26

Left Seat saysIm amazed at the judgement some people make without knowing all the facts..

Well it was a fact that Virgin Blue pilots undercut incumbant airline pilots in Oz by around 40%. It was beers and cheers at the Hamo for a few years- quick commands and stick it up the Ansett scabs and the Qantas skygods.

And now, on this thread, they are sreaming blue murder that highly qualified 777 drivers may come home and take "their" jobs. :ugh:

Instead of hanging #@it on your fellow colleagues support them.

They aren't my colleagues. I have never had a colleague pay for their training and undercut me by 40%.

But good luck to them improving their lot.

I hear the 86 % of VB pilots are really standing there ground

Big deal. They voted down an EBA.

Round two will have their predictable pilot psyche manipulated by a management that holds them in disdain. But understands their simple needs- shiny new 777's to uphold their professional ego, perceptions of professional worth & standing, all for little ( if any ) extra remuneration and conditions of service.

I'll put a bottle of port on it. As stated earlier. :)

kdf155

24th Feb 2007, 11:05

Gnadeburg,

Sounds like a sure bet to me to!!!!
I'll put a case of port on it.
The Virgin 777 deal will set a new low for longhaul ops.
Hope the egos can be put aside and prove me wrong.

1830

24th Feb 2007, 13:28

And They say the pommes whinge!!:{

woodja51

24th Feb 2007, 16:19

Well I dont get onto Ppune much but it doesnt take many times on it to realise that the reasons that Aviation is such a dreadful business is that the pilots seem to prefer to take shots at each other rather than the folks that have made their lives tough in the first place.(like the 9 board members of QF who unanimously accept a takeover as that is the best the Company will do !?)
7 years at EK and about a month at J* as a DEC training captain and I realised that what ever folks say about quality of life or living in the sand pit etc is cods. you have to make your own decisions - and that is exactly what will happen with this VB push across the Pacific. As per J* they will get DEC 777 guys without any problems - and in fact I cant see how VB plans to get easy approval for ETOPS over the PACOTS as easily as J* did given the only etops they have at the moment is transOZ. No maintenance Big brother etc, Use of the 4 eng jets from VA would have been much simpler to get it off the ground. And how long do they think it will take to get the 777's on line -most have already been bought in the production line for the next couple of years!
money ?? well after the recent announced pay rise at EK - and granted I am not everyone- means that the sand pit earns me in the hand over 250 000 AUD at the current exchange rate clear. So for any of the lads to come back for less than that plus taxto pay for the kiwi surfers on the dole at Bondi....they really do miss home and I understand why. but is Australia really that great? to live ..yes .. to work ..no way!
but build it and they will come !!
matty

hot tuna

24th Feb 2007, 19:28

If financial gain is your holy grail..that's fine...Let's face it the Aviation industry is screwed and there's no point looking back with rose tinted goggles....Lifestyle should be the only factor.... can anyone lend me a fiver...:}

Vorsicht

25th Feb 2007, 02:06

250k aus in the hand equates to 60k dids per month. I dont actually see how you are getting that. I can only assume that it includes a sh*tload of overtime.

V

74world

25th Feb 2007, 05:04

Woodja51, Mate, Who are you trying to fool by announcing 250K as a salary in EK????

Even if you are a DEC, that is: someone on a better salary than a guy promotted within, you would not come close to that amount!

Unless you employ couple of "russian workers" in DXB!!! :p

Don't forget that Ek's salaries are public knowledge.
Sure with the kind of money EK is paying you can have a "good life" in DXB (during your 8 days off), but you won't retire a rich man.

Stay in DXB, 1 less application in VB..... :ok:

sweetpollypurebred

25th Feb 2007, 05:34

You know what Knackenburger you just stay up there with your little boy concubine enjoying your "special" lifestyle, and leave the "real" flying to the "real" men.
By the way, how are your command hours looking?:uhoh:

Wizofoz

25th Feb 2007, 05:43

74 World,

Try this-

Hes been in 7 years = +3% a year
+ he's a TRE
+ Overtime
+housing (or utilities)
+Education
+profit share
+ (now) Flight pay.

You'll get to 250K AUD in a big hurry.

BTW, DECs get first year Captain pay.

fatbus

25th Feb 2007, 11:38

some DEC,s came in at level 16,3 year FO goes to 13

E.P.

25th Feb 2007, 11:40

Can you imagine the howling screams when Tiger Airways Intl announces the start date of their very much intended Pacific flights!
By mid 2008 25 320s will be belting around the southern jungle, very ready and willing to feed the 4 340-500s being handed over by Big Daddy SIA.:ok:
SIA doesn't just want a little payback for QFs "generosity" over the years, its baby Tiger sniffs a big kill across the pond if it grabs the market first!
Oh did you also mention a few 330s for the OZ-Asia routes.... :}

otto the grot

25th Feb 2007, 20:46

It's funny you should mention this E.P.

Tiger swears black and blue that they are just interested in the domestic market and that Big Daddy isn't using them as a launch pad into the pacific, but as history dictates, take everything Singapore says and apply the exact opposite.

Bring it on!!!

Gnadenburg

27th Feb 2007, 03:38

Sweetpollypurebred wrote a while ago-

bet youve managed to negotiate a pair fishnet stockings into your contract knackenberg.

And now this -

You know what Knackenburger you just stay up there with your little boy concubine enjoying your "special" lifestyle

Now I'm not a psycologist, but I think Polly is continuosly questioning his own sexuality. Look at this-

the "real" flying to the "real" men

It could just be the banter of a blue collar labourer. So, in this case, I will alter my bet Polly. Instead of a bottle of Douro's finest, how about a slab of Vic Bitter on the liklihood you capitulate and offer to fly the 777 for little ( if anything ) more than you drive your 737 now.:)

By the way, how are your command hours looking?

Good. Why? How are yours?

Gnadenburg

27th Feb 2007, 03:43

Importantly, Virgin Blue pilots have a measured bottom line from woodja51's admissions.

An EK pilot probably won't come home and do the flying for anything less than a current VB pilot's wage. And tax is scary for expatriates- perhaps get the ATO on board as further deterrence.

So despite the temptation, you won't have to fly the 777 for less than you do for the 737.

A small mercy.

meagain

27th Feb 2007, 06:07

Gnad, I gotta tell you, it's not only EK expats 777 rated and ready to come home and work for VB 737 rates or maybe a little less. :p Your swipe about the ATO and tax would infer that expats are scared of the tax dept. WRONG. Many have come home and all the others that I know, know exactly what the tax implications are in their present and future positions. If not they are stupid, and most are not. Unless you are talking to them, don't guess, there are many just waiting. Ask VB how many 777 rated pilots have filled in the paperwork already ??

Gnadenburg

27th Feb 2007, 08:11

meagain

J* International HR travelled the world looking for A330 drivers to poach.

Results? EK a few. One went back to EK. CX- offered but knocked back so nil. Dragonair- offered but knocked back so nil.

Now, you are telling me, 777 pilots from the above airlines ( discounting Dragonair ) are going to come racing home for less than VB 737 wages to fly 777 when their bretheren on the 330 didn't!

It doesn't stack up. I think you are trying to panick the VB drivers for an alterior motive.

019360

4th Mar 2007, 10:28

Gnadenburg,

Its been a long day on my beloved 777 from Dallas, (didn't even have to use full tanks by a long way) and I amstuffed so not thinking straight...therefore must lean on your skilss and logic to explain to me exactly what the VB pilots could have done at start-up time or since, to make the world a happier place for Qantas pilots. And why. They're all volunteers, all earn more than a university professor or MP and can all presumably walk if they want. I just can't see it.

Tonite below 10,000 ft I managed deterioriating weather, a purser who wouldn't shut up about passengersmissing connections, a stream of ACARS messages (ignored), cross wind gusting above our wet RW limit at destination and alternate....and managed it well I think....but I'm just not smart enough to work out how things could be better outside the cockpit in Australia as long as AIPA believes that the purpose of other pilots in Australia is to support QF mainline conditions.

Please explain....really.

Need some red badly.

woodja51

21st Mar 2007, 10:12

yes had a look at the J* thing and would have stayed as I think in the longer term would be fine but I have lots of financial committments and needed a few more years to boost the retirement package up before coming home.
seems some guys not believe me about the money - I will fax them the pay slip if they like - not sure how else I have managed to get into debt from banks to the tune of 12 million dids if they didnt believe me?? I see someone else answered for me anyway.
name to directanywhere ??

cheers dude beers at barasti sometime??