Advanced PPL training at Kemble

[vectis lady]

Hi guys,

anybody out there done the advanced ppl course that ultimate high offer at kemble?

ive just passed my PPL and im planning to go for commercial training but im not that confident - i thought that this seems like it would help and could be alot of fun,

would anyone reccomend it ? good point/bad points?

thanx for the help

[StarbucksOne]

Yes, I had one trip with them recently. I was actually attracted to the chance to fly a Bulldog again as I learnt on the Bulldog with the UAS.

As I've only had one trip, so far, I can only speak from limited experience - but I was impressed. Very professional outfit, but not intimidating. The pilots are ex (or current) RAF and are very very experienced - and are very good at imparting that experience too. It also gives you an invaluable insight into how the some of the best flyers in the business go about their flying.

However, I would offer some advice if I may. The "advanced PPL training course" provides training on more robust handling skills (full stalls/spins/elementary aeros) and some other military techniques such as constant angle approaches. You will, in effect, be doing what you would have done if you had done your ab-initio training in the RAF. Not by any means a bad thing, but it may not coincide with you are hoping to gain from it. If you are looking for more experienced/advanced instruction of flying a Warrior/C172 from A to B you may find yourself paying a lot of money for something off-topic to some extent. Also bear in the mind the aircraft they operate are a little more sophisticated than your average trainer (e.g constant speed unit, more poke, less stable etc).

I personally would like to see a course which covers the differences between "average" PPL flying and CPL flying...e.g stricter tolerances, more IMC work, more thorough planning, handling different airspaces professionally and so on. Or in other words, a course based on Nigel Everett's book "Beyond the PPL"!

So, I would recommend Ultimate High..but be clear what it is you want out of it.

Feel free to PM me if you like....

Cheers

[hobbit1983]

I did the UH APPL course last July; and very much enjoyed it. I'd certainly recommend it.

My blog about said course here- http://www.geocities.com/bkoprowski/jul06.html

[foxmoth]

Just to point out that if you chat to them UH will tailor a course to what you want as far as it is possible, you may not then be eligible for the magnificent APPL certificate and badge but you will get the training you desire.:ok:

[hugh flung_dung]

Maybe I've had a "senior moment"::O but I'm pretty certain that I replied yesterday to say that Old Sarum offered bespoke advanced handling courses :confused: Where did it go?

HFD

[hobbit1983]

Just to reassure you HFD - I saw that too, you're not going crazy!

Not sure why it went however, although at a guess, it might have been construed as advertising by the powers-that-be?

[vectis lady]

i read the reply then went for a cuppa when i came back it had gone - thought that i had lost the plot

not advertizing just advice/guidance surely?

Ta for the reply anyway

[hobbit1983]

Well, it's Danny's forum, so Danny's rules via the mods - which is fair enough, no worries there.

Anyway - since I fly from Old Sarum, as a member! - not involved in the running of the business etc - I can also recommend their excellent instructors who I believe provide similar training to the one at UH, although I've not done any Bulldog flying with them (yet). More info here - www.oldsarumflyingclub.co.uk (nice clubhouse too!)

[BRL]

Wasn't me! :}

[hugh flung_dung]

V.Strange!
Apologies if it was construed as advertising, it was intended to be just an alternative suggestion and a list of things that could be covered.
... any chance it can be resurrected?

HFD

[BRL]

No. I don't think so. It came accross as a blatent plug by an FI for the school.

[foxmoth]

Probably a bit too specific:=

[Speed Twelve]

Don't have any experience of "Ultimate High", but as a current mil light fixed-wing instructor I reckon any keen PPL would benefit from a little exposure to the military side of operating light aircraft.

There can be an element of 'fear of the unknown' amongst some pilots when it comes to stall/spin/extreme attitudes, and an hour or two exploring exactly what an aircraft will do on the limit can do wonders for self-confidence, even if then going back to flying a C172 or whatever. In the mil we emphasise unusual-position recovery from all sorts of spectacular attitudes, including 60 degrees nose-down inverted, as well as incipient-spin recoveries from botched aeros manoeuvres. Once a pilot becomes comfortable with those they tend to become more self-confident with flying in general.

Emergencies are another area where solid exposure to 'worst-case' scenarios will increase your life expectancy. What to do if an engine fails above cloud, or if you develop a rapid fuel leak, or the throttle cable snaps and the engine is stuck on full power. The sort of thing that some may not have considered before.

This sort of thing is great fun as well!

[BackPacker]

Remember that your own flying club/school/instructor can help you too. His/her/their first aim was to get you the PPL so they had to stick to the syllabus. But most (all?) instructors are CPLs, all (most?) enjoy flying and have at the very least 250 hours experience (CPL requirement) - way beyond basic PPL stuff. If you give your favourite instructor a list like HFD made up, I'm sure he/she can fulfill most of the requirements, and refer you to a specialist (e.g. aerobatics) instructor for the rest.

Oh, and now that you have a PPL and are legal to carry passengers, and since these lessons are not for an official rating, you can log them as PIC anyway. Not as DUAL or SPIC.

At my flying club, among other things, they have an "Unusual Attitudes" day where, after a briefing, you go up in an aerobatics plane with an aerobatics instructor to do the advanced stalls, spins and unusual attitudes recovery. If all goes well, you progress into simple, positive g aerobatics after about 15 minutes: loops, rolls, wingovers, stall turns. The best 35 minute (!) flight I ever had!

One thing to add to the list might be basic formation flying. Still on my wish-list.

[hugh flung_dung]

Oi mods, what's going on?
I accept that it's your forum and your rules, but after my earlier post was pulled I specifically cleared the second one with the moderator before submitting it.
What did I do wrong?

HFD

[Mad Girl]

From Backpacker - as the quote button's disappeared!!!!!

If you give your favourite instructor a list like HFD made up, I'm sure he/she can fulfill most of the requirements, and refer you to a specialist (e.g. aerobatics) instructor for the rest.



I'm sure they could backpacker, but the MODS have dumped the post and won't put back the good stuff.

Come on HFD - Put the list back up (If they'll let you) - I need to put it on my "ever growing" flying things to do list.

[BRL]

Sorry, the post has gone. I was too lenient when I agreed it could go back up re-worded. HFD I have PM'ed you.

Email or PM HFD if you really want to know what was in there..........

[BackPacker]

Mind you, I'm only a PPL with 30 or so hours since the skills test. So I'm not the absolute authority on this. But I have a personal list of things that I plan on doing, with one of my club instructors, over the next year or two, as and when the occasion arises. And some I've done already. In fact, about half of the things listed here below are activities that are organized by my club by default every year.

1. Advanced stalls (departure stall, turn to final stall), spins, spiral dive, unusual attitude recovery, upset/inverted recovery. Introduction to aerobatics. (Done that. Best 35 minute flight I ever did!)
2. More advanced instrument training (we don't have an IMC rating here, and an IR rating is too big an investment at this point in time). But I would like to fly an ILS, in the soup, a couple of times, and do some more advanced manoeuvres (turning to a heading while climbing/descending), other than the straigh 180 we needed to demo at the skills test.
3. Night VFR rating
4. Basic formation flying
5. Maybe, if the opportunity is there somehow, some flying (landing!) from the right hand seat
6. Precision landing contest (with safety pilot), true engine off landing
7. More varied emergency training. EFATO and various engine failures which make the engine run somewhere between 100% and 0%. How do you land with an engine that surges all the time? Flying (and landing!) on partial (stuck) controls or in an out-of-trim situation.
8. Flying through controlled airspace. (Did that. Transit straight through the Amsterdam Airport Schiphol airspace (class C). Twice now. No problem at all. Very cool. Particularly since I live beneath the EHAM CTR and could fly over my own place this way.)
9. International flight. Crossing the Channel or North Sea. Or worse. (As preparation, I did a sea survival skills training just like the guys from North Sea oil rigs receive. Very cool.)
10. Mountain flying. (Very impractical right now as the highest mountain here is < 1000 ft.)

Furthermore, try to fly as many different types of aircraft as you can. Each aircraft handles differently and needs a slightly different flying technique. Some are flown by the seats of your pants, and some by the numbers, but you have to find the numbers first! Spend a few hours with the POH to learn, at the very least, Vr, Vx, Vy and Vref, T/O and L/D run and distance (MTOW, ISA, 0ft PA, nil wind) and the fuel burn at various cruise settings. Compare them to other aircraft you've flown.

This may be of help for the time that the list of HFD is gone.

[hugh flung_dung]

Here we go again by popular demand, a third and final attempt.

Any training (whether it's called "advanced", refresher" or "continuation") is a good thing and will lead to improved confidence, safety and (most of all) FUN :ok:. In terms of bang for the buck it's a lot better than going for a £100 hamburger but, unfortunately, most PPLs don't do enough of it.

If you can find somewhere with appropriate aircraft and instructors you could probably mx'n'match from a list like this:
- stall recoveries (approach, departure, accelerated, various attitudes)
- unusual attitude recoveries (nose very high/low and inverted)
- Slow flight, accurate steep turns and MRTs
- spin recoveries ("academic", from manouevre, precision and high rotational)
- spiral dive recoveries
- aerobatics (as relaxed or as strict as you want them to be)
- PFLs using constant aspect technique
- "point and power" approach techniques and precision landings
- dealing with systems failures
- improved VisNav techniques (Max drift, DI visualisation, SCA)
- improved RadNav techniques (DI visualisation for holds, point-point IF)
- complex or tailwheel conversions - or just trying a new type

... but not all schools/clubs have experience of offering some of these items, have instructors with the necessary skills or have suitable aircraft available.

One final thought. Everyone is starting from a unique point and wants to put a unique amount of time and money into the process of reaching a unique point; I would therefore recommend agreeing a bespoke plan with the instructor rather than opting for a fixed course.

HFD

[Mad Girl]

Mods - Please leave this one up.

HFD - When I'm back at work I'll check this against what you sent me - I'm sure you've added bits :confused: ???.

But thanks for trying again, I'm sure students and PPL's alike will be interested and hopefully some will take what you've suggested on board.

To the forum.....
I went to a talk on forced landing recently and the message that came through loud and clear was instead of thinking "where shall I go" when you next take an airplane out, how about thinking "what shall I do"?? i.e. PFL's, stalls, steep turns etc etc etc

I'm sure some of you already do...but I'm equally sure some of you don't.

I'm just a low hours student, but I'm learning certain lessons fast, and hopefully they'll stay with me for years to come!!!!

[Heliport]

Mad Girl

Posts are not removed unless there is a good reason.
Mods are required to remove posts which infringe PPRuNe rules.
If Mods miss any, the Admins remove them.
The latest version of HFD's post does not infringe PPRuNe rules.


Heliport