US Visa required for FAA Seaplane Rating?

[Bluebeard777]

1. Does anyone have a definitive source to answer whether a US student visa is required solely to get an FAA single-engine seaplane rating? This consists of 5 hours plus test. There have been postings here previously, suggesting that less than 18 hours per week is not a "training course".

My question here is not about TSA requirements nor about getting an FAA licence (which I have already). I am asking solely about the visa question.

2. I have not found a US seaplane course which deals with the visa issue, so as a fallback does anyone know of a Canadian school that can do the FAA seaplane rating and FAA test?

Getting a Canadian seaplane rating is not the answer as it would require me to maintain a Canadian licence.

All advice gratefully received.

[falconfreak]

I have a B1/B2 visa, the visa normaly issued if nothing else is requested. I often go to the states for training and also on occasion, a new type. Never had a problem.

[IO540]

This one (visa/TSA) has been done to death here, but AFAIK you nowadays cannot do TSA without getting a Visa, because the two departments cross-check.

[gcolyer]

And B1/B2 VISA does not cut it with the TSA. So you would need an M1 and the FTO needs to be able to supply an I-20 for the VISA application. And you need to register with SEVIS for the VISA as well.

[Bluebeard777]

IO: I believe this particular subset of the visa/TSA etc issues has not been dealt with here before.

SoCal: I believe that TSA clearance is not required for ASES, so let's put that matter to one side. My question is whether a student visa is legally required, I have not been able to establish an answer to this. The US Immigration Service does not appear to have any channel for asking technical questions. If the answer is yes, a visa is required, than I have to find a school that is registered to deal with student visas - or else find a Canadian school that can give the FAA rating. :uhoh:

[n5296s]

As far as the TSA goes, the guidance is extremely clear. You need TSA clearance for training as a private pilot, for an instrument rating, for a multi-engine rating, or for anything over 12500 lbs. You don't need it for anything else, e.g. ASES.

For the visa stuff I can't help. It seems very confusing and I'm just glad that as a green card holder I don't have to worry about it.

n5296s

[Bluebeard777]

SoCal: Yes I tried the local Embassy, premium rate line diverts to an outsourced call centre in (I think) Germany, staff do not seem to be able to answer "technical" questions, I got varying responses from different personnel.
Flight schools do not appear to know either - the concept of having to get a visa for 5 hours' training naturally seems absurd.

So I thought I would try that fount of opinions (if not invariably information) - Pprune!

If I can't get a fix on this I will have to go to Canada .......

Cheers

[IO540]

SoCal

Given that US law requires a visa for training exceeding 18hrs/week, and absolutely nobody I have come across in the last few years has found any reference to the contrary that is stronger than a barely readable email from a half illiterate US Embassy official (or similar), what do you think would happen to somebody who simply went to the USA on holiday and popped into a school?

I am taking about doing something that is TSA exempt, of course.

IMHO, all that the immigration service could do is chuck him out, but even then on what legal basis?

Somebody must know.....

[falconfreak]

Is it such a big del to get a visa? They are normaly for ten years and I got my last one on the same day after a couple of hours.

[englishal]

Is it such a big del to get a visa? They are normaly for ten years and I got my last one on the same day after a couple of hours.
Yes and no. An M1 is not valid for 10 years, only for the course of study related to the visa application. I agree B1/B2's are easy to get, and indeed you MUST have one of these if you no longer qualify for the visa waiver program.

My own feeling is that you do not need an M1 visa to add a SES rating to your FAA licence for the reasons posted by n5296s. Also because the course of study is going to be less than 18 hours per week you shouldn't need an M1 anyway, but there is a lot of debate about this and many "schools" will get you a visa anyway just to cover their arse..To "upgrade" from PPL to CPL you do not need a visa - you can already fly, you're just improving your skills, as is adding a SES rating.

Another thing, the only schools (AFAIK) that are authorised by the US INS for visa applications are part 141 schools - Jo Bloggs floatplane school at Laughlin won't be able to issue an application for an M1. If you phone the US Embassy £20 per minute help line, they will instantly think of an American Airlines captain under training and say yes of course you need a visa, where as if you read all of the information on the net about this subject it is pretty obvious that you do not need a visa for quite a lot of "flight training"....

[IO540]

Based on my limited knowledge of this, and having been around the process for the IR in the USA, I am with Englishal on this.

The need for a Part 141 school to get an I-20 to get the Visa is particularly nasty because there is no indication on the TSA website whether a school is 141. I blew away a few hundred $ on aborted applications before discovering this.

If anybody wants a detailed checklist for the TSA+Visa process, please email me.

The M1 visa is valid for the study period as specified by the school. In my case (2 weeks) they put down 4 weeks just in case. The Visa also gives the name of the school so you are well stuffed if you can't train there for some reason. Someone here from the USA disputed this; I PMd him for details of how to get the school changed but he never replied.

The Visa process involves a day spent in London, preceeded by about 2 months to get all the paperwork "ducks in line". The TSA stuff can be done entirely via their website, but you have to get fingerprinted, which in the UK can be done in Farnborough, and I gather one other place in Norwich. That's another day trip for most people.

[youngskywalker]

I emailed a well known sea plane training school in Florida with this very question a few months ago, they replied that Visa and TSA not required for SES.

[cavok_italy]

Hi guys, I'm in contact with a flight school in California and they said I need no VISA, neither for getting my CPL & ME, but filling a long questionnaire on a TSA website. Should I believe?

[youngskywalker]

For CPL and Multi I would much rather believe a school that told me I did need a VISA and TSA, it's not that difficult, save yourself a lot of heartache and just do it.

A good school that trains a lot of international students will be well set up for providing the paperwork for VISA and TSA.

I know of some places where you can just turn up with a visa waiver and hand over the cash for training, chances are you would get away with it, but is it worth the risk...?

[mcgoo]

As in post #9, you don't need approval for the CPL but you do for the multi.

[youngskywalker]

I can think of one flight school in SD, California that can and do take the fingerprints...but we are not allowed to mention the name of this school on pprune!:E

[Bluebeard777]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I dont want to take any risks, I have business involvements with US entities, I will do things strictly by the book, even if absurd. I just want to find out what it says in the book.

However it is difficult to discover what the true position is on a visa for getting ASES, there seems to be no way of getting sense from some call-centre operative who types "flight training" into his/her database and sees "VISA REQUIRED" on the screen.

There appears to be no way of getting a written ruling from the US Embassy. Short of engaging a US immigration lawyer, I'm not sure what to do next. :confused: