Orbiting Downwind

[six_degrees]

This is going to sound like a really simple question to some, but it has been irritating me for quite some time. When orbiting downwind, should you orbit towards or away from the runway?

I've always learnt that you should *always* orbit away from the runway. That way you remain well clear of the overhead, and any departing or approaching aircraft. You also stay well clear of any traffic on base or crosswind which is particularly important with three or more in the circuit.

I've seen and talked to many other pilots that say the opposite. Reasoning that *all* turns should be in the circuit direction, and at the end of the day the overhead is the safest area (due to aircraft landing or taking off at low level). Of course the overhead isn't always the safest area as there are high performance aircraft, and there are always aircraft on a go-around. Legally this the only option really, as it explicitly states that all turns are in the circuit direction, and does not mention orbiting at all.

It does also pose a problem when different pilots do different things in a busy aerodrome.

What does everyone else think?

[bentleg]

If there is a control tower I expect they would nominate the direction of the orbit. If there is no control tower I would fly a wide circuit and/or extend the downwind leg rather than orbit, as I don't know the distance or speed of traffic following me.

[das Uber Soldat]

at bankstown they generally orbit away from the runway. Thats only an observation.

[K3nnyboy]

personally I would think orbit overhead the field at height above circuit....but I guess aghain it really depends on situation, if there's another a/c orbiting...you wouldn't wanna be there haha...rules are rules, but u cannot just follow the rules blindly, for example, during my training at YSBK, the rule says "alwyas give way to traffic on your right; exiting the runway....."

but it happens often that people just dun give way...especially when traffic exiting the RWY~~

[das Uber Soldat]

that seriously makes me rage when you're taxiing clear of the active, and some muppet just trucks on past, doesn't give way and you have to stomp the brakes and just sit there blocking the exit.

[jetstar1]

For what reason are you orbiting? At a CTAF aerodrome?
If it is for traffic separation (ie getting close to the aircraft in front) a two minute orbit has surely just stuffed up everyone else in the circuit. Why do we teach three configurations of cruise (slow, normal, fast) if you cannot apply them to this situation? Flying wide circuits is plain dangerous in a high traffic situation, as is extending downwind.
At a controlled aerodrome, ATC will nominate your orbit direction.

[K3nnyboy]

tried SLow cruise in a busy cct before it really works...the only problem is...would a fresh off the ground student know how to do this? cos that Airspeed is right on the edge:rolleyes:

[Tee Emm]

Excerpt from the US magazine "Aviation Safety" January 2002 on the subject of wide circuits. Quote:
The Top 10 Reasons to Fly Big, Wide Patterns:

1. Great way of getting rid of that pesky extra avgas.
2. Bored of looking at industrial airport roofs and want some new scenery.
3. Lets you tour several states without landing.
4. Gets you ready for flying the big iron (GFS please note!)
5. Spread the cheer...airplane noise for all.
6. Helps you hide from people who are looking for you.
7. Gives you new answers to the question, "Are we there yet?"
8. Solves the problem of flying being too cheap.
9. If the engine fails, you can practice ditching in a backyard swimming pool.
10. Your flight instructor always did it to build time..:ok:

[bentleg]

"Dun"? just what does it mean please?
Don't :ugh:

[FOD-Boss]

Just an observation from the ground today at a controlled aerodrome , a single in the left hand circuit was instructed to do a right hand orbit to allow a faster arriving twin behind to overtake. I cant remember the last time i saw an orbit during CTAF hours , if at all.

[Squawk7700]

Isn't it in the rules somewhere that at a *normal* CTAF, only left-hand turns are permitted within 3 miles of the field? With the obvious exception of non-standard runway ops.

[bentleg]

Isn't it in the rules somewhere that at a *normal* CTAF, only left-hand turns are permitted
Yes there sure is. AIP ENR 1.1-64. :ok:
Why would you orbit downwind when there is no tower to guide you about following traffic? :confused: (A bit hairy for the following aircraft!)

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I can't imagine why you would orbit on the downwind leg at a non-controlled aerodrome. Why would you not just widen it out a bit and/or extend it?

At a controlled aerodrome - just do whatever the bod in the tower tells you to (within reason!).

At all times use your commonsense and judgement (airmanship?).

I recall doing an orbit on long final at YNTN when inbound from YKMB cause the Bo was climbing all over a Coastwatch Islander that was conducting a practice NDB. Seemed like the easiest thing to do at the time as I was pretty confident we were the only 2 aircraft in the vicinity and I had the Islander visual.

FTDC:cool:

[six_degrees]

Tower usually doesn't tell you which direction to orbit... and the rules clearly state all turns in the circuit direction.

Just seems lot of differing opinions, different people doing different things.

As for extending downwind, shouldn't separation be conducted on upwind?

[jetstar1]

tried SLow cruise in a busy cct before it really works...the only problem is...would a fresh off the ground student know how to do this? cos that Airspeed is right on the edge
I maintain that adjusting speed on downwind is by far the safest option for separation. Would a fresh student know this? By my flying school syllabus, straight and level is lesson 2. This lesson emphasises the different cruise configurations, how to change between, and should cover applications. Lesson 7 covers stalling and slow flight, with special emphasis on recognition of stall sypmtoms and flight at low airspeeds. All this is covered before circuits, where the student can apply what they have learned.
Tower usually doesn't tell you which direction to orbit
Disaggree.

[Kickatinalong]

You are 100% correct, who is teaching this type of flying? NOT BLOODY ME :ugh:
The more I read the worse I am thinking about Instructors, as it's always their fault, just ask any student
(Thats what my Instructor told me to do):mad:
Kickatinalong :D

[scrambler]

I find it easier to set the same power settings all the way down and if i need to delay my landing do the orbit on short final :rolleyes:

Or was that just another stupid idea I read on here?