Tiger A320s to operate domestic downunder? [Archive]

dijon moutard

8th Feb 2007, 01:10

Jetstar tackles a Tiger

By Steve Creedy
February 08, 2007 12:00am
Article from: http://www.news.com.au/images/sources/h14_theaustralian.gif</IMG> (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/?from=ni_story)
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JETSTAR will add planes to its domestic fleet and expand operations in Western Australia amid speculation of a home-turf challenge from Singapore-backed Tiger Airways.
The Qantas offshoot has also targeted Korea and Taiwan as its next overseas destinations and has not ruled out more wide-body aircraft to service the routes before the arrival of its first Boeing 787s next year.
Tiger is expected to announce an Australian investment tomorrow, possibly involving a link with Perth-based Skywest Airlines that would see Tiger-branded A320s operating from the Western Australian capital.
Aviation sources speculated yesterday that Tiger would use Skywest to put Airbus A320s on the Australian market, amid rumours it was seeking to operate from Perth to the eastern states as well as on the "golden triangle" of Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne.
If that proves correct, the airline will face more than a bigger Jetstar presence: Qantas is considering transferring more Boeing 747-300 jumbo jets to its Sydney-Perth Cityflyer service.
Singapore Airlines owns 49 per cent of Tiger and the Singapore Government's investment arm, Temasek Holdings, has 11 per cent. Other shareholders include US private investment firm Indigo Partners and Ryanair's Tony Ryan.
Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce said his airline had been talking for some time with the Western Australian Government about basing aircraft there, and the expansion was unrelated to moves by Tiger.
"We know that we have to grow past 23 (aircraft) and the business is performing fairly well as the results tomorrow will show," Mr Joyce said.
"It's very clear that this year we've paused because of the long-haul growth.
"Short-haul has come back on the radar screen."
Mr Joyce said potential sources for new aircraft included three that were sub-let to Jetstar Asia (and due back at year's end) and second-hand planes.
He said opportunities in short-haul included growth on domestic routes and establishing international services.
"Perth is a very good example of that, where the A320 has the range to get to a lot of South-East Asian destinations," he said.
"And the third opportunity is really the Tasman.
"Our Christchurch operations are really going very, very well and domestic New Zealand and extra flying across the Tasman fall into a category we would want to look at as well."
Tiger last month announced it would start four flights a week from Perth to Singapore and chief executive Tony Davis is on the board of Skywest's parent, Advent Holdings.
Mr Davis last month told Singaporean media that some of his carrier's new A320s would go to an unnamed joint venture in the region.
He said the new venture would be more comprehensive than a previous agreement with Philippines-based carrier SEair, but that the Singaporean carrier was "not interested in investing lots of money to buy an existing airline".
Tiger provided SEair with two new A320 aircraft as well as technical and operational experience to operate Tiger-branded flights from a new hub at Clark Field in the Philippines.

cheers
dijon moutard:ok:

alangirvan

8th Feb 2007, 01:46

If Tiger Australia is structured so that it is an Australian controlled airline - as Skywest and Alliance are now - it would be allowed to lease 744s from SQ and fly them SYDLAX.

I wonder if the people at Tiger eat Frosties for breakfast.

roamingwolf

8th Feb 2007, 01:53

If Tiger can get their hands on some modern aircraft such as the 400 and start operating from perth to the east coast then qf is in some trouble.

The classic should be in a museum and it would be no match for a 400 or other new aircraft .

The 300 has more bugs than a mortein commercial.

ruprecht

8th Feb 2007, 02:03

Actually, X and Y would have a lot of "bugs" after spending 10 weeks on the Hajj. They should both be soaked in Dettol for a few days.

ruprecht.

Sunfish

8th Feb 2007, 02:27

It would appear that Singapore has decided to tackle Qantas on its home turf, returning the "favor" Qantas did for them by starting Jetstar Asia and limiting the number of Singapore Airlines direct flights out of Melbourne.

IAW

8th Feb 2007, 02:31

So, these will be the 4 A320s belonging to Avion group (which owns 5% of Advent Air, which is majority shareholder of Skywest), flying under the Skywest AOC but branded with Tiger Airways markings?

roamingwolf

8th Feb 2007, 04:29

Hey Sunfish,

Why don't you answer the question from another thread about SIA and the SING Gov lobbying against Jetstar Asia getting access to a number of destinations in China and Indonesia.

You keep rabbiting on about big bad QF but they do exactly the same thing as do every other country...protect themselves.

i was right the lifts don't go to the top floor do they?

Taildragger67

8th Feb 2007, 09:15

Qantas is considering transferring more Boeing 747-300 jumbo jets to its Sydney-Perth Cityflyer service

Aren't they something of a finite resource (ie. not exactly an unlimited supply)?

pilotdude09

8th Feb 2007, 10:19

Would be interested what service they would offer as i wouldnt call Skywest a LCC, they are up there service wise with Qantas and most West Aussies would support them. But we shall see...................

dodgybrothers

8th Feb 2007, 10:49

yep just like they supported them in hedland and karratha

Buster Hyman

8th Feb 2007, 11:24

Bluddy Singapore centric SQ!:*

woopwooppulup

8th Feb 2007, 12:04

I thought a foreign carrier could not operate domestically in oz with a foreign rego, and does that mean that if they use skywest's aoc they also have to use skywest's pilots and skywest's aircraft?

Shot Nancy

8th Feb 2007, 12:23

I thought a foreign carrier could not operate domestically in oz with a foreign rego,
It was done in the year that cannot be mentioned.
If Tiger can get their hands on some modern aircraft such as the 400
My highlight.
Modern? I believe it was certified in 1989 and it was derived from the previous versions. Modern? I have flown brand new 747 - 400 ERs and there is nothing modern about them.
Anyhow, what goes around comes around, GD will call in a few political favours, drag the matter of approval on and on, QF sale, bonus, etc, what problem? Tiger who? QF?
Call me cynical but lets see what happens.

Hawk777

8th Feb 2007, 12:55

woopwoop,

I believe so. I'm sure the Skywest Pilot group will be making the company well aware of their obligations. It is important for them ALL to stick together to negotiate this.

Cheers

woftam

8th Feb 2007, 13:02

OK, this is a rumour network right?
Try this one on for size. A yet to be announced delay in the B787 to J* (and everyone else) will mean J* is "forced" to take ALL the A330's from mainline to service it's expansion.
CCQ and all that.
Mainline gets ALL the B787's when they arrive. Already "Boeing" friendly outfit with experience on similar types.
Jetstar remains all Airbus/CCQ. A330/A320 and whatever else.(A380?)
I know "tell him he's dreamin".
Just a "rumour" I've heard. :)

pilotdude09

8th Feb 2007, 13:44

Dodgybrothers
yep just like they supported them in hedland and karratha

They got support from the public and not the mining companys because of their unreliability, late flights almost every time they flew out of KTA, im not saying QF doesnt have their problems but it only ever seems to be the QF 717's with the issues. Flights were often full out of KTA and they are doing well out of hedland from what i hear? any way thats for another thread.....

We'll another thing that adds another dimesion is that our good friend Peter Costello said today that JQ want under the forigen ownership laws because it wasnt government owned and never a national airline, so i guess these same rules apply to Skywest about being able to be owned forignley up to the limits set?

Once can of worms after another, think the aviation industry in Aussie is only going to get worst which is a real shame.

Boston

8th Feb 2007, 14:26

Here endeth the speculation???:bored: :oh:

"The airline remained silent on its plans, preferring to let its chief do the talking today. Tiger, however, shot down media reports it could form a partnership with the Perth-based Skywest Airlines.
"It is not Tiger Airways' general policy to comment on press speculation but the company can confirm that it is not in any form of discussions with Skywest or its holding company Advent Air," the airline said in a statement."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/tiger-to-take-on-jetstar/2007/02/09/1170524239938.html

roamingwolf

8th Feb 2007, 18:55

Shot Nancy

As a number of people do on pprune you used a quote out of context.

I meant a modern aircraft such as the 400 ( or such) which I meant compared to the classic.

I meant an aircraft with a modern IFE system that works (SIA) and not runnung on spare parts scavneged out of AVV

Stick Pusher

8th Feb 2007, 22:33

I think you'll find out they pulled out because just about all the flying in and out of there is tied up to contracts and tied up and commited to QF for quite some time. i think you'll find that when these come up things could change.... i hear when people did have the chance to fly with XR they were impressed and enjoyed the experience....

bne019

8th Feb 2007, 22:56

Check out this page:

http://www.tigerairways.com/oz/ozwelcome.php (http://www.tigerairways.com/oz/ozwelcome.php)

There's a few articles in the Australian and SYD Morning Herald too

bne019

Toolman101

9th Feb 2007, 00:37

If Tiger does compete on the domestic routes it will be interesting to see where they will call home base.

Any airport group/State government offering money to attract them!

Dropt McGutz

9th Feb 2007, 00:56

Isn't this is the mob where you have to buy your own uniform? I also believe the pay makes Jetstar pilots look overpaid.

OZBorn

9th Feb 2007, 00:59

Allright, I'll be the first to ask then! Does anyone know much more than me about Tiger (which is nothing). What do they pay? Is the self sponsored endorsement the same as J* (apart from being bulls@#t) or is it partly subsidised? Is the basing in Perth? If anyone is in the know, please post the details as I'm sure others on this thread would be interested to hear that their may be another viable alternative, particularly for someone on the West Coast.

Skystar320

9th Feb 2007, 03:22

Perth.....

Perth will see majority of the aircraft as its an ambission to create Perth as a mini hub. Makes logical sence really

Perth - Melbourne
Perth - Sydney
Perth - Brisbane

Need a few more seats

Pete Conrad

9th Feb 2007, 04:01

Wait for the J* mob to shoot it down in flames.........

Enema Bandit's Dad

9th Feb 2007, 04:19

Pete, I heard the Jetstar blokes have offered to fly A320's at Eastern Dash 8 rates.

cart_elevator

9th Feb 2007, 04:41

It will be interesting to see what their fares are going to be. It could cause a real headache for Jet* and Virgin Blue.

If you do a mock booking on their website, their 'regular' price PER-SIN is AUD$148 one way - this is cheaper than most domestic flights offered by Jet* and Virgin Blue :eek:

Being half owned by SIA, they are coming in with a hell of a lot of resources behind them!

It will be interesting to see what they plan on paying tech & cabin crew :rolleyes:

max autobrakes

9th Feb 2007, 06:33

Less than a train driver in NSW I'll bet!

Wirraway

9th Feb 2007, 06:33

ABC.Net
Friday, February 9, 2007. 10:06am (AEDT)

Company moves to establish third domestic airline

The Singapore-based Tiger Airways says it is getting a positive response from the Federal Government for plans to start competing on Australia's domestic air routes.

Tiger Airways, which is half-owned by Singapore Airlines, has applied for a licence to take on Virgin Blue and the Qantas Group on Australia's domestic routes.

Mr Davis met federal Transport Minister Mark Vaile yesterday.

Tiger Airways already flies between Darwin and Changi Airport and will start a service to Perth next month.

The airline says fares in Australia are too high and has accused Virgin Blue and Qantas of returning to a "cosy duopoly" and increasing fares.

The airline's chief executive officer, Tony Davis, has told ABC Radio's AM program that it expects to be flying Australia's domestic skies before the end of the year.

"The response generally was very favourable but we need to go through the proper processes now with the Federal Government and the regulatory authorities to make sure that we get the licence issued as quickly as we can," he said.

"We've got five new Airbus A-320s ready to bring into Australia as soon as we complete that process."

Mr Davis says the Federal Government understands that competition is good for consumers.

"I think they can see that additional air services, particularly at the affordable fares that Tiger will be bringing into the market, will help stimulate tourism, both domestic and international," he said.

The Federal Transport Minister, Mark Vaile, has welcomed Tiger Airways' plan to operate domestic flights, but says the airline will have to satisfy safety and security requirements.

Mr Vaile says a new entrant could provide increased competition with advantages for consumers, the tourism industry and the economy.

He says Tiger Airways told him it would focus on regional routes, but the company still needs approval from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) and the Transport Department.

Tiger Airways says it will discuss with the Northern Territory Government the possibility of Darwin becoming a hub for domestic flights in Australia.

Tiger's NT representative Mildy Raveane says it is possible Darwin will become a major base for the airline.

"We have received an intent from the Minister Paul Henderson sort of suggesting that because of its location and Tiger being in fact its first port of call into Darwin, that's sort of something we've got to start negotiating," he said.

"As you can appreciate every airport in Australia has been in touch with us trying to get the same sort of deal going."

Last month, Tiger Airlines announced it would be flying between Perth and Singapore four times a week from March, before expanding to a daily service in November.

===========================================

Truth Seekers Int'nl

9th Feb 2007, 06:54

Tiger Airways does operate a self-sponsored training program for pilots not qualified on type.....................NO paying for endorsement BUT.....5 year bond with a bank guarantee for AUD20,000 reducing each year.................
Capts AUD 135000 F/Os AUD 72000...........o/t after 75 hours.(250/hr capts....145/hr f/os)........... flat meal allowance rate of AUD210 per day/part thereof.......42 days a/l and 9 days off /month at home base (depending on pairing ,could be 9 straight or 4/5,3/6 etc,(BUT ALL at home!)........uniform IS provided and the rest is industry standard....recruiting starts after approval of AOC....but acceptiong EOI now..........good luck.

CUB

9th Feb 2007, 13:11

Thank goodness for J* ! In place to protect QF from competition like this. Can you imagine QF competing with 2 low cost airlines VB and Tiger ?

Pete Conrad

9th Feb 2007, 19:22

Enema Bandit....doesn't surprise me, they do funny things after the labotomy kicks in those J* guys...just ask them how great J* is...you'll end up rolling on the floor in laughter.

ndeke 100

9th Feb 2007, 22:54

The latest crop of pilots entering the "established" airlines are Metro, Dash. Saab drivers etc. Majority very capable. There have been a few from lower down our industrial tree, Caravan drivers. Who have also done well. This to illustrate that the pool is slowly drying up.

J* A 320 B787, Virgin E190, to recruit heavily over coming period.

Where next?

Wait for it! Lack of skilled people!

The 457 Visa. This will allow foriegn workers to work in Oz as it has done in other industries.:=

freddyKrueger

10th Feb 2007, 01:16

The 457 Visa. This will allow foriegn workers to work in Oz as it has done in other industries.I am genuinely curious as to where this pool of idle pilots overseas is hidding.
HACS, IASCO, PARC & IACglobal seem can't seem to find them judging by the emails and websites offering US$8000 +per diem +pension per month for FO positions.
In case you might might be tempted to think they will come from China, I suspect you may well find the flow going the other way. I recently heard one Oz training organisation was asked by the Chinese if they could train 700 students per year (the couldn't).
Learning to fly is essentially denominated in US$/euro costs (fuel, aircraft, parts, simulators) not local currency. That is, training has a first world cost base no matter where it is undertaken, and hence is prohibitively expensive to all but the very wealthy (why would they?) and those selected, trained and bonded for extended periods to airlines or the military.
You may have also seen, Indian firms are recruiting ozzies in the computer HERE (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,21174812%5e15335%5e%5enbv%5e15306-15317,00.html).
IMHO, I wouldn't worry just yet, Australia & the US are two of the cheapest places to learn to fly. If we are short...

ContactMeNow

10th Feb 2007, 01:16

"Thank goodness for J* ! In place to protect QF from competition like this. Can you imagine QF competing with 2 low cost airlines VB and Tiger ?"

Isnt that the grand plan for QF, sell it for lots of $$$ then leave it to rot? When all the "important people" have lined their own nests? Greed: yes, good business practise, looking after staff and shareholders: I think not...

Z Force

10th Feb 2007, 04:24

And for some of you knockers http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139114

Mr. Boeing

10th Feb 2007, 05:17

I'm wondering if SIA are going to use Tiger as a way to gain entry to the Pacific?

sinala1

10th Feb 2007, 06:48

I'm wondering if SIA are going to use Tiger as a way to gain entry to the Pacific?

I had precisely the same thought

assasin8

10th Feb 2007, 10:28

Thanks Geoff ! The race to the bottom just shifted into overdrive !!!
:mad:

roamingwolf

10th Feb 2007, 21:27

Boys and Girls let's see Tiger compete with this sort of customer service..

A QANTAS flight attendant faces the sack after being accused of having sex with British actor Ralph Fiennes in an aircraft toilet while flying from Australia to India.
Sydney-based Lisa Robertson, 38, met the star of The English Patient while working in the business-class cabin on flight QF 123 from Darwin to Mumbai on January 24.
In a confidential report to Qantas management obtained by The Sunday Telegraph, Ms Robertson is accused of chatting to Fiennes during the flight and being seen exiting the same toilet moments apart.

or maybe i reckon she was only influenced by the example of our esteemed leader.

Stick Pusher

11th Feb 2007, 06:13

so tell me this.

how about foriegn ownership rules, Aust AOC etc....? doesn't one have to 50% aussie owned? if not why wasn't virgin 100% branson? and why coyldn't Singapore or anyone else just lobbed straight into the domestic market?:uhoh:

sinala1

11th Feb 2007, 06:49

Stick Pusher I believe there is reference to a link-up with SkyWest? Co-ownership?

Sunfish

11th Feb 2007, 07:27

or maybe i reckon she was only influenced by the example of our esteemed leader.

Male or female?:zzz:

OhForSure

11th Feb 2007, 08:28

I understand TR Oz is to be only 49% foreign owned. Don't know where the other 51% is going to come from locally???

They have another 11 A320s on firm order... don't know about options, but management reckon they'll have 5 new electric jets ready for Oz ops.

Big Hairy Potatoes

11th Feb 2007, 21:44

Brett Godfrey in the Australian
Brett Godfrey: Let nothing soar above national interest
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21208067-7583,00.html

otto the grot

11th Feb 2007, 22:29

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't Virgin Blues' start 100% funded by foreign investment (Branson).

Seemingly a case of whats good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.

Metro man

11th Feb 2007, 23:16

Tiger Airways are part owned by the private investment firm of Ryan Airs Tony Ryan. Ryan Air went from operating a few Bandits to bigger than British Airways. BA withdrew services to the Irish Republic because it couldn't compete.

Major shareholders include Singapore Airlines and Temasek (Singapore government investment arm). These people are not known for being reckless with their money.

Tiger Airways losses are 10% of those of Jetstar Asia and in line with start up expectations. J*Asia cancelled 80 flights due to lack of crew from poor planning, they knew how many were returning to Qantas and when they were going, Tiger cancelled 14 flights during the same period many due to cyclones. J*Asia missed out on lucrative routes to China by first flying to Taiwan and then being surprised when the mainland Chinese were offended.

Qantas started an airline in Singapore complying with local ownership requirements, Tiger start an airline in Australia also complying with local ownership requirements. Fair enough.

Brett Godfrey wasn't too concerned about the investment Ansett had made in Australia when he started, and didn't he concentrate on the golden SYD-MEL-BNE triangle to begin with. Now that Virgin has slipped comfortably into void left by Ansett he seems keen to maintain the duopoly he was so against. If Virgin are keen on operating services from Singapore they can set up a local operation complying with ownership requirements, and take advantage of open skies between ASEAN nations starting next year.

There is an open skies agreement between Australia and Singapore, QF can start a service from Singapore to Los Angeles if they want in competition with SIA. Whilst having a population of only 4.5 million Singapore is a major transit hub. QF are scared of losing their first and business class passengers to SIA if forced to compete on the Pacific. SIA are a premium airline in the process of a major cabin upgrade and will be increasing fares 10-20%, leaving the backpackers to QF and United.

I can't see Tiger on the Pacific run, doesn't fit with their low cost model. SYD-MEL does however, third busiest air route in the world after Madrid - Barcelona, and Sao Paulo - Rio de Janero.

Remember the days of the $30 SYD-MEL airfares ? Looks like they're coming back.

Mstr Caution

12th Feb 2007, 00:10

Associated Press 23-01-2007

Earlier this month, Malaysian aviation tycoon Tony Fernandes launched budget carrier AirAsia X, which will start flying to destinations in China and Britain in July. Fernandes said he expects AirAsia X to carry 500,000 passengers in its first year of operations and eventually expand destinations in India, Europe and Australia. Average ticket prices will be about half the price of full service airlines, he said.

Australia now you'll have more choice! :8

Stick Pusher

12th Feb 2007, 00:45

sinala1

i believe the word from xr is that this has nothing at all to do with xr. and that statement is in writing from the very top apparently...

Big Hairy Potatoes

12th Feb 2007, 01:38

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/aw010107p3.xml

Hawk777

12th Feb 2007, 06:02

$135,000 for an A320 Capt, you've got to be joking.

That's less than their Singapore counterparts.

IF they do get crews at that rate the Singapore Tiger pilots better watch out. Mr Davis will crew all his aircraft with Aussi pilots.

3 Holer

12th Feb 2007, 07:29

$135,000 for an A320 Capt, you've got to be joking.

B727 Captains working for National Jet Airfreight Services are only earning $122,590 all back of the clock operations and that Company is winding down operations. Now I wonder where their Captains will go when they get made redundant? :E

Tutaewera

12th Feb 2007, 07:45

Amazes me where all these so-called figures and "facts" come from. :rolleyes:

Tiger Mgt has not decided upon, let alone announced a pay package for the OZ op. Nor has anyone implied PER would be the base... So far its only been ppruners and journos thinking out loud.

Rumours may be rumours, but when ya really don't know, maybe its better to don't say... :oh:

I am sure we can all extrapolate the possibilities of Tiger SIN and OZ linking toger and with a regional(s), maybe even long haul low cost one day. But nobody knows, so why waste ones energy? :confused:

Tiger pays its SIN crews approx $185-200k pa SGD for CPTs and about $110-120k pa for F/O's (all in), and has quite a few Ozzies amongst them, (who may well take some OZ slots). Their crews were recently told the OZ deal will be very competitive, and yes - they know what Jetstar and VB pay.

Tiger learnt the hard way at the very start (2004) that unhappy and underpaid crews leave and can cause chaos in doing so. The new CEO fixed that ASAP and I doubt very much that they would risk the same again. :)

As for the low pay for 727 cargo crews. What does one expect? Apples and Oranges. Try hiring A320 crews these days, they don't grow on trees...

AirOcean

12th Feb 2007, 08:29

Where does this leave Skywest? With Alliance and Ozjet competing (and winning) in their backyard for FIFO contracts; Tiger on the SIN-PER run soon (let alone SQ and QF) where can they deploy A320 equipment within or without Australia profitably? Economies of scale kick in pretty quickly. Also TD is (was?) on their board so hardly going to advocate competing with Tiger! Meanwhile the minnows are nibbling away from below witness the growth at Maroomba and Network.
Personnel wise there has been a small exodus from the top over the last year or two - Air North has XR's former CEO; Maroomba the Ops Manager; Alliance has the former Fleet Manager F100; and Tiger (interestingly) has their former Head of Training and Checking.:=

Metro man

12th Feb 2007, 11:06

Tiger Singapore pilots earn around S$130 000 F/O and S$200 000 CPT (AU$ 113 000/166 000) before very low income tax. Similar pay to Jetstar Asia.

Factor in the cost of an international move, expensive: rent, alcohol, cars, electricity. Private school, medical insurance, trips home etc all reduce the differential.

Expat life not for everyone. Married with two teenagers in the Australian school and an unhappy wife, probably better off back in Oz financially as well as personally. Single in Singapore on a high income = heaven ;)

Not too bad a deal if they give a free endorsement in return for a bond. Get off the SAAB/DASH 8/BRAS, much better pay, good experience and quick upgrade. Move onto CX in 5 years time

B772

13th Feb 2007, 02:51

Stick Pusher.

An Australian AOC holder for domestic operations can be 100% foreign owned if it is in the public interest.

James4th

13th Feb 2007, 09:29

It had all been posted before, I must get out more:uhoh:

Minimbah

17th Feb 2007, 22:35

ABC Web SiteFriday, 16 February 2007. 18:31 (ACST)Minister meets with Tiger Airways over airline headquarters bidThe Northern Territory Tourism Minister has met with the head of Tiger Airways in a bid to make Darwin the budget airline's Australian headquarters.Tourism Minister Paul Henderson held preliminary talks with Tiger chief executive Tony Davis in Darwin today.A spokesman for the Minister says the discussion was constructive, but no firm commitments were made other than to meet again in the next few months.Alice Springs has been without a second airline since Virgin Blue pulled out of the region in 2005, despite the Territory Government providing $4 million in subsidies. The Member for MacDonnell, Alison Anderson, will not say whether her Government plans to offer similar enticements to Tiger Airways, but she is hoping people power will secure the Alice Springs route."That was a different circumstance with Virgin Blue and this is a different time and we as Territorians and people living in Alice Springs just want to welcome Tiger to Alice Springs," she said. "By getting people to vote online really gives us the opportunity, and I think it's healthy for business to have another airline and I think it gives us that opportunity to have cheaper travel."

Eastwest Loco

18th Feb 2007, 11:50

Well this is just the manifestation of SQ's attempt of several years ago to enter the Australian domestic market.

They then through their board members at NZ tried and succeeded in collapsing Ansett as that was the cheapest option. They knew NZ did not have a hope of carryibng the ball.

The top 3 levels of management of Ansett had to be removed and paying them out was not an option.

Sing Air would not lose face, and could ride in like the White Knight and rebirth the floundering carrier.

Small prroblem occurred 24 odd hours before this when ragheads flew aeroplanes into buildings - Global panic - so the gentle Singapeurans pulled their heads in.

The great shame is that it did not keep Ansett alive by rebirthing it as was intended.

Our lives would all be a lot simpler if it had done so.

Best all
EWL

Artificial Horizon

18th Feb 2007, 13:07

Oh come on, enough of these rediculous conspiracy theories. Ansett went bust after YEARS of mismanagement. If my memory serves me correctly this management was only to happy to wash their hands of the whole operation and offload it to ANZ which inherited this massive mess including quite a few safety/maintenance violations that not only sent Ansett bust, but very nearly took Air New Zealand with it. Australia and New Zealand aviation markets both need to pull their respective heads out of their arses and allow a bit of competition which is beneficial for all involved.

haughtney1

18th Feb 2007, 13:28

Australia and New Zealand aviation markets both need to pull their respective heads out of their arses and allow a bit of competition which is beneficial for all involved.

Here here A/H.......well said mate:ok:

neville_nobody

18th Feb 2007, 13:52

Alison Anderson should be careful what she wishes for. Other communities to wanted more airline competition, and got it in the shape of Jetstar and Virgin!:}

As soon as Tiger fire up then so will Jetstar and it's good bye QF clubs and Business Class. Alison will be here next year complaining that Alice Springs has lost "high end tourism" because of the lack of "full service airlines" and that QF should come back! No idea some of these people :ugh: :rolleyes:

1DC

18th Feb 2007, 21:17

Low cost quality is already here you just aren't paying low cost fares very often. Flew BNE to MEL at the beginning of January with Qantas, midday flight full of families going home from holiday. Plane was showing it's age and apart from being given a bag with a sandwich in it and a free cup of coffee the scenario was equal to a UK holiday charter to Spain.Paid a high fare cos i booked late but the flight was fine.
Flew MEL to SYD last week with Virgin, paid a reasonable fare cos i booked early.The plane interior was in better condition than Qantas but the flight was definitely equivelant to a low cost European operation.The flight was fine no different to Qantas.
Your average punter doesn't bother too much about wether the flight is a low cost or full fare operation on reasonably short flights, say up to 4 hours, provided he thinks he is getting a good deal. Most consider safety and reliability and i am sure Tiger Australia will be as safe as Qantas or Virgin.Provided Tiger don't have too many delays (delays are one of the few things that turn loco flyers off)they should be succesful and Qantas and Virgin will have to rise to the challenge.

haughtney1

18th Feb 2007, 21:21

Your average punter doesn't bother too much about wether the flight is a low cost or full fare operation on reasonably short flights, say up to 4 hours, provided he thinks he is getting a good deal.

Which is the principle I see Oasis applying to the LGW-HKG operation..with a few tweaks for a 12hr flight.

I wouldn't mind betting these guys will be another player into the Oz market (albeit long-haul) before too long.

1DC

18th Feb 2007, 22:42

haughtney1

If Oasis becomes a success i believe you are right, the next step change will be low cost long haul.I don't know how Oasis are performing now but they were having delays shortly after launch due to starting up too early.Shortage of aircraft and routing problems.. They have big plans for the future. Another Malaysian outfit is also planning low cost longhaul so Oz will be a natural routing i suppose.
Hpefully if more people have the opportunity to fly then everyone will be able to share the pie..

cunninglinguist

18th Feb 2007, 23:07

I can just see Tiger doing DN-AS, AS-ML, AS-SY, AS-BN, AS-AD, AS-PH.

Alison, I would'nt hold my breath for that one............:rolleyes:

Skystar320

19th Feb 2007, 03:04

OKay, Enough is enought :cool: :cool: :cool:
Why would they want to concentrate on Darwin with a population of what 400,000 with majority of those routes are tourists.
It makes perfect sence for them to concentrate on Perth, and from what I have heard that's what they are doing........
Perth - Sydney & Perth - Melbourne are screaming for more seats as a result Qantas is now throwing 3 x 747-300's on the route and they are still full!!!!!!!!
There is plenty of VFR and corportate companies that fly this route...
My $$$$ will be them operating the golden triangle BNE - MEL - SYD and to PER from those routes.

Cleared Visual

23rd Feb 2007, 06:18

Skystar, Darwin has a population of just 120,000 actually, which further adds weight to your argument i guess. As a Darwin resident I see your point, I don't think it will happen either. NT govt. seems to have forgotten the rest of the country sees us as an isolated backwater, and they're trying to run this place like it were Sydney.

It would be nice if Tiger could introduce some daylight services to the East Coast from Darwin however. I regularly have to pax to Sydney, sometimes at short notice only to find the only seat available is a full fare red eye on QF, or an almost as expensive seat on VB (I refuse to fly Jetstar, but that is for another thread). I remember after the collapse of Ansett paying close to $1000 for a DRW-SYD-DRW flight on a 21 advance and the only flight available was routed DRW-SIN-SYD on the leg down! Improved when Virgin came in, at first however with the 734s with no IFE (by which i mean audio like on the -800s) on a 4 hour flight, it was cheaper, but you had to be prepared to leave at 1am, and change planes in Brissie... not much has changed, just not as cheap anymore. Bring on Tiger I say!

cunninglinguist

24th Feb 2007, 01:38

Cleared Vis, note sure why you would'nt fly Jet*, if its leg room, you're in for a let down ( no pun intended ) apparently they shove 180 into their bus.
BN or ML - DN for less than $400 return on Jet*, there is no pleasing some people :hmm:

Pete Conrad

25th Feb 2007, 01:00

Bring on Tiger I say....no cruntinglinguist, people want choice, not your crappy outfit thrown at them and then told...this is what you pay for.

resboy

25th Feb 2007, 03:12

I think people might be getting a little over excited about what this 5 aircraft outfit might actually offer us.

What exactly do people think Tiger is going to offer that either Virgin or Jetstar (arguably our two low cost carriers) don't? Generous luggage allowances? More legroom? Better flight timings? Flexibility with flight close out times? I'm thinking hell no. :ugh: Yes some of Tiger's lead in fares are quite amazing. But then so are DJs and JQs when you can find them. And lets remember these great fares are always in short supply for any airline and always adequately compensted by yield managers with much dearer fares. :E

Tiger like every other operator will be out to make a buck. And making a buck for a low cost operation is providing a basic generic service which doesn't provide for much customer flexibility. Basic transport from A to B where the fills come a distant second to cramming as many people into the bus and getting it out safely and on time. Any add ons (extra luggage, food, late check in) you pay. All to make a buck.

With respect to serving smaller centres, if Tiger can make better money utilising their aircraft on daylight services between the "majors" ie SYD, MEL, PER and BNE, you can bet that DRW will probably miss out in achieving what people are hoping for by way of daylight services. An unfortunate reality of airlines trying to pull a profit; allocate the aircraft to where it will earn the best return.

And just to balance out the views the planes only leave DRW between the hours of 2300 and 0300 (which yes they do with those LCCs that many seem to detest so passionately on these threads), lets also remember QF still offer daylight services ex DRW to PER, ASP, ADL and BNE (and SYD during the dry). I don't ever really recall there being daylight services to MEL even back in the "good ol days".

I wish Tiger and those who decide to join good luck, but am somewhat cynical about where they will fit in the market?

Skystar320

26th Feb 2007, 02:03

Hi,

The previous poster made some quite good points, which I am going to expand on a little. These are all hypothetical so don’t shoot down my ideas but comments are welcome.

With five aircraft, there is only one idea that comes to mind and I’ll bet my bottom dollar on this that it will actually happen depending if Tiger is allowed to operate Australian services. I remember when Tiger launched services to Singapore to Perth I remember them saying that they wanted to make Perth a mini hub. When you compare that Perth is closest to Asian countries that the rest of Australia (beside Darwin which I haven’t forgotten, but left out for reasons that I will explain).
Perth – Singapore is what a 5hr flight at best of times, ideal sufficient range within an A320. The basis of this is that Tiger doesn’t have to get an aircraft that has longer legs to do SIN – BNE/MEL/SYD so going back to a true LCC  reducing costs by operating one aircraft.
With 5aircraft concentrating on the most lucrative Perth – Melbourne Perth – Sydney routes, it is possible of having up to 4 return services per route. When you see the lead in fares its makes sense that this will be the most lucrative routes. With the WA’s booming resource sector showing no sign of slowing and Qantas now putting 747-300’s on the route’s and still running at 90% + LF most accountants will be buzzing over the ‘potential’ profit figure.
By offering the ‘punters’ frequency there will be always Friend’s visiting relatives and business personal on these flights. Okay so let’s say that they set up a hub in Perth with 5 x A320’s flying Perth – Melbourne and Perth – Sydney. Now that they have got there ‘foot’ in the door Tiger can start offering flights to Singapore from both Melbourne & Sydney with a connection through Perth.
Remember Valuair’s idea of going into Sydney & Melbourne, there was one problem. True LCC have one set of aircraft, not two hence the idea of ‘lowering’ costs associated with operating one kind of aircraft.
I know I have only ‘skimmed’ the service so to speak, but to me and a few other people it makes sense for them to be based in Perth instead of Darwin. No offence to people living in Darwin with a population of only 120,000 they can support 5 x A320 aircraft. Its too much leisure traffic not enough corporate.

This is Skystar signing off for Aviation Weekly!

Bye

harrogate

12th Mar 2007, 06:50

I've been bigging up Tiger for some time after a phenomenally cheap flight from Phuket to Singapore last year, but after a few bad experiences with them recently, frankly they can get f*cked!

Late services, completely uncontactable from Australia - they just DO NOT answer the phone on the 'other countries' number on their website, but rest assured you pay for the pleasure of being on hold - 66c (AUD) per minute.
On one occasion when I finally managed to get through to the call centre, the guy I spoke to assured me there were no senior staff working after 5 and that I was unable to escalate a complaint unless I rang back between 'normal office hours'. He was unprepared to take my details and get someone to look into my grievance, even after I re-stated just how uncontactable they are! All I wanted to do was upgrade my frikkin baggage from 15kg to 20kg, which frankly it should be on this route anyway. They wanted 72 hours notice for the upgrade, but after 3 weeks of trying to call them to upgrade, I finally managed to get through with about 66 hours remaining 'til departure, and they refused to upgrade me.

The 15kg baggage allowance on the Aus route is stupid and impractical anyway. Tiger's service is riddled with shortcomings which has made me revert to J* and pay a little more, but know I'm going to get more legroom, a sensibile baggage allowance and services that are more than often on time these days.

My most recent one-way Darwin - Bangkok 111 GBP fare (inc taxes) finished up being 180 GBP after all the phonecalls and eventual upgrade at on-the-spot baggage rates at the airport. I could've gone from Melbourne on Jet* for 177 GBP. With JetStar (and Virgin Blue when travelling within OZ) it's just a case of 'click and forget'. I trust them both. I just don't trust Tiger after my recent experiences.

Obviously Tiger will factor in a customer service function for Australia if they launch here, but the attitiude of the staff member I spoke to stank. Once Virgin Blue tweak their fares accordingly (which will inevitibly happen when the competition actually arrives), then Tiger will be blown out of the water. Flying Virgin Blue is fun and they have a loyal base. Flying JetStar is more formal, but it's getting more of a whiff of professionalism about it with every passing week and services are becoming more reliable - I use them a LOT. Tiger's brand of 'cheap and cheerful' could easily fall by the wayside in Oz, even if they are a bit cheaper. Lots of people can already afford to fly around Oz quite comfortably budget-wise, so low fares aren't the be-all-and-end-all that Tiger seem to think it is.

Before anyone starts - yes, I know it's low cost and I shouldn't expect all the trimmings. I don't. I just want to click and forget, like I said before. This **** smacks of being too cheap, though. Basic principles of the european-style point-to-point, low cost model are being trimmed away and circumvented by Tiger, but surely there's a limit as to how basic you should go?
Rant over.

Duke998

12th Mar 2007, 08:20

I've been bigging up Dodgy Brothers house builders for some time after a phenomenally cheap house built in Sydney last year, but after a few bad experiences with them recently, frankly they can get f*cked!
Late services, completely uncontactable from Australia - they just DO NOT answer the phone on the 'other countries' number on their website, but rest assured you pay for the pleasure of being on hold - 66c (AUD) per minute.
On one occasion when I finally managed to get through to the call centre, the guy I spoke to assured me there were no senior staff working after 5 and that I was unable to escalate a complaint unless I rang back between 'normal office hours'. He was unprepared to take my details and get someone to look into my grievance, even after I re-stated just how uncontactable they are! All I wanted to do was get my walls that had fallen down rebuilt, which frankly it should be done anyway. They wanted 72 hours notice for the rebuild, but after 3 weeks of trying to call them to rebuild, I finally managed to get through with about 66 hours remaining 'till the housing inspector arrived, and they refused to rebuild my walls.
The 2 walls out of four allowance on the Aus house sux. The Dodgy Brothers model is riddled with shortcomings which has made me revert to Cheap As Chips House Builders and pay a little more, but know I'm going to get more walls, a sensibile walls remaining after building completed allowance and services that are more than often on time these days.

My most recent 5 story brick veneer house in sydney cost 111 GBP (inc taxes) finished up being 180 GBP after all the phonecalls and eventual rebuild at on-the-spot rebuild rates at bunnings. I could've built in Melbourne with Cheap As Chips for 177 GBP. With Cheap As Chips (and Never Fall Down when building within OZ) it's just a case of 'click and forget'. I trust them both. I just don't trust Dodgy Brothers after my recent experiences.

Obviously Dodgy Brothers factor in a customer service function for Australia if they launch here, but the attitiude of the staff member I spoke to stank. Once Never Fall Down tweak their prices accordingly (which will inevitibly happen when the competition actually arrives), then Dodgy Brothers will be blown out of the water. building with Never Fall Down is fun and they have a loyal base. Building Cheap As Chips is more formal, but it's getting more of a whiff of professionalism about it with every passing week and services are becoming more reliable - I use them a LOT. Dodgy Brothers brand of 'cheap and cheerful' could easily fall by the wayside in Oz, even if they are a bit cheaper. Lots of people can already afford to build around Oz quite comfortably budget-wise, so low cost houses aren't the be-all-and-end-all that Dodgy Brothers seem to think it is.
Rant over.

dodgybrothers

12th Mar 2007, 08:26

hey hey hey, go easy on me! geez, just one little donkey......

harrogate

12th Mar 2007, 08:27

-----------------------
*yawn*
-----------------------

At least post something funny.

You're up late - get back to your FlightSim.

otto the grot

12th Mar 2007, 11:26

harrogate
I think you could apply your experience with Tiger to any airline in the world at some point or another.

I think what you will find with Tiger OZ though, is that they will offer a service very similar to the current Jetstar and Virgin offerings. The only difference being that seats that would normally go begging will be sold for the $10 price thats been bandied about in the media. Or, there will only be a small portion of $10 seats available on every flight, full or empty. The rest of the seats will have been sold at more realistic prices.

One things for sure. Virgin at least is concerned about this new player to the point of possibly establishing a "ultra LCC" to counter and if you listen to the spin doctors at CAPA, both Virgin and Qantas can expect a mauling of their bottom line from this outfit.

My money is on a successful startup and eventually more competition on the Pacific as they grow and branch out.

harrogate

12th Mar 2007, 23:29

I understand your point, but it's not an isolated case. I've now given up on these guys after 7 flights. Since my first experience in Asia, it's been rapidly downhill.

The folks in the arrivals area last night (mainly ozzies) were all talking of their growing dismay at the service. For anyone who's keeping an eye on their performances, last night's flight was about an hour late, and for what it's worth, less than half full (my girlfriend was on it last night).

Like I said before, it's almost too cheap - and you don't hear that complaint too often! Trying to do too much with too little, cutting corners to the detriment of the overall point.

ruby tuesday

13th Mar 2007, 10:39

Any ideas where they will base their 5 xA320?

apacau

13th Mar 2007, 20:56

ruby - far too early to tell but several factors are pointing to MEL, not the least of which is the A320 maintenance facilitity

Cactus Jak

13th Mar 2007, 23:38

Has anyone got any idea how many pilots Tiger Singapore has and how many of those would be Aussie expats wanting to come home?

ruby tuesday

14th Mar 2007, 12:23

Hi Apacau - there are other A320 maintenance facilities around, Jet* just opened one in Newcastle - does the one in MEL belong to any particular airline?

apacau

14th Mar 2007, 20:47

I can't see Jetstar letting Tiger into their new maintenance facility, can you?!

ruby tuesday

17th Mar 2007, 12:40

AJ was quoted recently saying 3rd party engineering was a possibility...

Mobi LAME

17th Mar 2007, 21:57

Now there's something funny! When Jet* was being set up AJ wasn't enamoured with the operation having its own Engineering Division, he wanted to have a 3rd party supply that. Since moving from 14 717s to 23 A320s, adding a couple of floors to HO with countless more managers and analysts, there is still the same number of Gingerbeers as when it started. Big Q is the 3rd party in ADL and PER and AAES does heaps in MEL, meaning Jet* can't handle its own work let alone Tiger's. With the removal of Engineering Division from the AOC, making it a defacto contractor to Jet*, maybe all work will be 3rd party one day.

3 Holer

19th Mar 2007, 01:20

This (http://theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21388636-23349,00.html) is good news. :ok:

Lodown

19th Mar 2007, 04:47

If I were in Tiger management, I'd be tempted to choose two bases: Perth and Brisbane. One to service the Indian Ocean, one to service the Pacific. Both to service Asia and both to be the transition centres for code share and domestic ops and importantly, both with room to expand. Melbourne would be important domestically and Sydney would be the first destination of a two leg flight. VB has had the opportunity to provide a competitive match to Qantas through partnerships and code share and has squandered it. The pressure is on for them to expand fast now on the International front, but I think the horse has bolted.

Eastwest Loco

11th Apr 2007, 09:19

Personally I am not looking forward to the stripey pussy entering the Australian scene, particularly if they operate in the same way they appear to be in Asia.

I have had need to book clients into and out of Padang in Indo over the last few weeks.

Complaints have come rolling in over grubby aeroplanes, inside and out and poor or missing onboard service.

Another nice little trick if you are booking on their overstressed website is that if your port pair is Padang Jakarta, there is nothing visible on the website to indicate that the flight is operated by Awair International, one of the carriers I believe was named as a no go zone by the Australian Government. The only way to tell in their website was the QZ flight designator. Not many Asian cannon fodder will pick that up. particularly if they do not fly much at all.

The 6 passengers I currently have in Indo for humanitarian support efforts, and another I have there supervising work on his charterboat have been copping schedule changes all the time. I am well aware that this is a possibility in any airline, but with Tiger it is starting to appear endemic.

To be honest, Garuda is starting to looklike the first choice they were prior to the JOG disaster, and can probably retain or regain that position the hard way. The hard fact is the mess at JOG and the tragic loss of life was probably the only way to break down the endemic rigid pecking order in GA. One would now lose face to follow a regime that cause a big mistake rather than use common sense and do the right thing. We can only hope.

I'm sorry but Tiger needs to be quarantined, vetted and probably speyed before it is let loose on the housing commission suburbs of Oz.

If they enter the market, good luck. I wish them no ill will. I just hope their operation is many steps above what my clients have been reporting within Asia.

Totally sick of not being able to rely on an even-close-to operation and having late night reissues/rebooks onto real airlines I had left a heap of connecting time onto.

Super Chicken summed it up.

Fred you knew the job was dangerouse when you took it!!!

Best all

EWL

UNOME

11th Apr 2007, 16:31

God I miss the Starbar in Launey!

EWL

Tiger_SIA OZ (from all accounts at CASA) will be totally autonomous from the other 3 Tigers_SIAs (apart from the cash flow and the A330/340s) :} Therefore, the plethora of normal ex-Ansett folks floating around and ready to revive the Eastwest/Ansett halcyon days might just find a desirous oz market.

Some good old pride in the job, clean planes, problems fixed before the punters have a chance to walk and the BS left behind, might just shake things up a bit... :ok:

Give it a chance old mate. Asia and Oz are two different party animals and you may just make a few bucks...

Eastwest Loco

12th Apr 2007, 02:48

Thanks for the clarification UNOME.

I am pleased to hear the operation has a degree of seperation.

We never write anything off. JQ is giving giving them a ready made market at the moment too. Heaps of peoples thoroughly urinated off with JQ because their web booking engine has developed serious "anomolies" and if you can get a booking made, you cannot finalise it.

If you have made a booking with them, go back into it.

The exit row seats have mysteriously been unblocked.

For those oamong us too young to understand the Super Chicken/Fred reference, go here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmCFQMxw2w4

Best all

EWL

bushy

12th Apr 2007, 08:18

I just used the unmentionable word.
I flew up from Adelaide to Alice Springs this morning and was disgusted with the way the qantas checkin system worked.

There were very few people (three I think) manning the checkin desks, for all of the qantas flights and there was a huge que of pax moving very slowly. It took a whole hour to actually get bags checked, get a boarding pass, and walk to the gate.
It will not be hard for someone to steal these pax away form qantas.

I read that Tiger is looking to sell "franchises" within countries, and I hope someone does that and stirs this place up a bit.

resboy

12th Apr 2007, 13:35

I can see it now ... *waves hands over the crystal ball*

Long turnarounds to maintain schedule intregity, no 30 minutes get em off get em on stuff

Generous luggage allowances, a place where excess charges do not exist, and certainly not this 15kgs concept

Oodles of ground staff ensuring your check-in wait time is kept to an absolute minimum

A perfectly functioning web booking system (but of course a well manned call centre for those wanting to do it the old fashioned way, or even scarier retail offices!!!)

Cleaners in droves ready and waiting to make those 320s sparkle during those long turnarounds

Quality meal service where everyone gets exactly what they want off the menu ... not a catering shortage to be seen

Perfect flight timings, none of this customer unfriendly back of clock nonsense ... don't want to work those 320s too hard anyway

Wages well and above that of DJ, JQ, QF, the lot ... a place where every employee is valued

A place where the sun is shining, trees are the greenest of green, bunny rabbits hop amongst the grass, children play happily in the warmth of the afternoon ...

And all for $9 one way AND profitable ... it will be bliss

2p!ssed2drive

12th Apr 2007, 14:24

:}

you forgot the part where a midget rides on the back of a Shetland pony....

love the post, resboy.... :ok:

resboy

12th Apr 2007, 15:53

sorry 2p!!!

i was too busy watching the flying pigs in the sky :E

Condition lever

12th Apr 2007, 22:03

EWL,

You are still pushing GA????
Do you get a commission on insurance??

Cheers
CL

RENURPP

12th Apr 2007, 22:16

In the past I have travelled from Darwin to singapore bi-annually with QF.
Two things have changed, firstly QF doesn't fly Darwin - Singapore anymore, and prior to them ceasing that service I was JACKED off with the delays, lack of service etc. I tried Tiger and they, as a LCC, provided a better level of service than I got with QF J class.
You might laugh and say B/S. My last flight with QF four hours late, boarding they advised the entertainment system in J class was U/S. They had known for hours, hence the delay. Economy was fine, could have changed and sat there. As there was no entertainment the cabin service was kept to a minimum, food service 1 drink, then lights dim and CC hide.

I wrote to QF asking to refund the difference between business class and economy class FF points due above, response was, bad luck **** happens.

On the return, depart late and Captain advises during taxi problem with dunnies and may not be available for the first hour or so???

Now I travel Tiger and pay bugger all and get the service I expect and payfor!

Eastwest Loco

13th Apr 2007, 10:08

CL - Travel insurance pays obscene commission levels - try 45% which is why I always discount 20% to PpRuNers.

Not pushing GA at all, however when you have a lot of traffic into and out of Padang then your choices are limited. You have the wonderful selection of Garuda (who made a beeg ole booboo - and lets us not mention the spare parts fest formerly known as Oscar Juliet Hotel - I am not a hull loss I am a 747!) or Adam Air, Awair or Lion.

Lion and Adam have a fairly good short term record for creating paperwork as well.

I think I would much rather fly GA if it came to the push and shove. The only major thing I can see at fault here is pilot/FO attitude which will no doubt be put under serious pressure because of the JOG catastrophe.

Maybe they need to get a little less Indocentric (new word warning- check your browsers!!) and allow even more Aussie/Kiwi/Brit/Yank drivers in to break the local culture that does not work. The days that have been where Daddy is a General and therefore his son can fly for Garuda (if he can pass in ADL) must be chucked out backwards. The rest of the beast is performing rather well.

Reality checks kill people. Damned shame and major tragedy. They also make changes that save many more down the line.

Best all

EWL

Mobi LAME

13th Apr 2007, 23:40

EWL
How dare you rubbish the Jet* Web Booking. Don't you know that this was set up,and is maintained by one of AJ's favourite sons. He can walk on water no less! Mind you, the fact it doesn't work too well is a minor point. If the public think they are going to be treated any differently to any other user of Jet* IT they are sadly mistaken.

bushy

14th Apr 2007, 04:29

The attitude you display is similar to what appears to be the qantas attitude.

Catering is irrelevent on a two hour flight, but standing in a que for an hour is not.

Qantas is treating it's pax with contempt, and in due course will have to pay for it.

resboy

14th Apr 2007, 07:34

Bushy ... my attitude isn't that of contempt ... and I certainly don't agree with hideously long QF check-in queues or excessive queuing at any airline for that matter. I can also tell you after my duty today catering does matter to quite a few people out there when you run short and have little else to offer.

The point of my post, in yes a rather sarcastic manner, was to highlight that Tiger in its current form is very much a LCC and incidently very similar to JQ. And IMHO some people are perhaps getting a little over excited with what Tiger might actually offer in the Australian market by way of an alternative.

Unless they are going to move away from their current LCC model and try and compete on QF's (and now DJ's) turf we are going to have something very similar to another JQ.

Have a read of their website, strict check in times, free seating, 15kg checked allowance. Given their website headline for the Australian operation opens with "Very soon, you'll be able to fly across Australia at truely low fares - it's the real deal", I dare say they'll be sticking to the current LCC model. But then never say never!

Cheers :ok:

bushy

15th Apr 2007, 03:27

Qantas is an airline just like all the others. The seats are jammed close together, and I had to stand in a que for an hour. Sure, I got a $5-00 snack.
But the myth that qantas is better than the others is rubbish. Qantas domestic, and international flights are much the same as the others. Not much better or worse.

Clever advertising makes it appear so.

Eastwest Loco

15th Apr 2007, 06:06

Bushy

I still find QF and Ratlink seat pitches adequate for my rather "enhanced" 6'4" frame.

The trick is to join Club Rat.

Straight to a dedicated checkin with one or 2 people ahead of you and then up into the dizzy heights of fine wine, spirits and beers until it is time to board. Make it an afternoon flight as the piss comes on at 1300.

Once there, proceed to the service deck and ask to be allocated exit row - in the guts not the front so you still have the tray table thingy. They will fix it happily.

A little over $300.00 a year with an initial fee of about $ 110.00 on a corporate cell. My office has one and you are welcome to use it. It turns over in October, so the $300 whatever would be prorated.

It is worth the doing to avoid "THEM". The things that were never meant to fly.

Best all

EWL