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View Full Version : How fast is the Dash 8 - Q400?


ForkTailedDrKiller
6th Feb 2007, 02:03
Anyone care to satisfy this old Bonanza pilot's curiosity?

What is the TAS in cruise of a Q400?
How does this compare with the "non-Q400"?

What did they do to get the Q400 to GO?

My interest was triggered by the fact that, over a short leg (<200 nm) the Bo is generally not too far behind older Dash 8's, but I recently "raced" one of the new ones from Mackay to Rocky. I took off from YBMK behind one with only the length of the runway between us, but it was taxying YBRK for departure before I had landed.

Seems very quick!

Are the QL Dash 8s breeding? There were at least 8 of them on the ground at YBBN today !!!!

FTDC:cool:

lk978
6th Feb 2007, 02:11
bit faster then the Q300 bit slower then the B737, bigger engines make it go faster, and the red tail makes it go a little faster - note to designers if they painted it all red it would go even faster.

Skystar320
6th Feb 2007, 02:19
put a pair of Roles Royce engines on those wings and it would go even faster.


I'll pull out some documentation when i get home and post for you

OhForSure
6th Feb 2007, 02:54
TAS of 360 is fairly common. Max cruise is around there too. PW150A engines are actually based on PW's 4000 series turbofans apparently. 3750 odd KW of power out of each of the buggers! Roughly twice as powerful as older props, and uses significantly less fuel. Now who said props are for boats...:E

ContactMeNow
6th Feb 2007, 05:03
Just look at QF's block times for YSSY-YSCB flights in the Q400 compared to the B734.

Impressive :D

CMN :ok:

DutyofCare
6th Feb 2007, 05:56
Bout 350/65 Kts as reported is correct! The bonks have the same core as the J-Model Hercs operated by the RAAF. Qlink were looking at replacing the leading and trailing edge de-ice boots and utilising bleed air to heat the wings in icing conditions if required, thus extending the speed to an estimated 385kts! Yep this is one fantastic machine,:ok: however will Mr Joe Public continue to commute in one when VB start going head to head against this a/c (with there Ejets) one has to wonder?:confused: :confused: :confused:

blueloo
6th Feb 2007, 08:52
Is it just me or has anyone else found them horrendously noisey inside? I liked the inside fit out of the new 400s, but on a CBR SYD - sector the noise was almost unbearable. Couldnt wait to get off.


Never found the noise as bad (memorable) on earlier models.

brown_hornet
6th Feb 2007, 10:56
Is it just me or has anyone else found them horrendously noisey inside?

I too have heard that the 400 is a bit of a disappointment in the noise department, especially considering it being a modern plane with those fancy 6 bladed props. I find the earlier models to be one of the quietest turboprops around on the inside, at least in cruise, so would have thought all the advancements in noise suppression would have found its way onto the Q400....apparently not though:confused: Will have to go for a burn on one and see for myself:8

Chimbu chuckles
6th Feb 2007, 12:43
Sounds like dey are like rooly, rooly fast!:E

DUXNUTZ
6th Feb 2007, 16:43
Did Qlink not get all the electronic gear that quietens them down? Rode on an old 100 series the other day and boy are they loud!

F/O Bloggs
6th Feb 2007, 17:26
Bloody slow really.

(Props are for boats)
:p

Howard Hughes
6th Feb 2007, 20:39
Yeh, but not over short setors Mr Bloggs....:ok:

cunninglinguist
6th Feb 2007, 20:57
bit slower then the B737

73, 71, 320 = 30% quicker...............anyone who thinks 30% is a " bit " , I have a bit of land for sale :E

Even on our shortest sector ( 270nm ) we would be on the ground when the " boat " arrived in the circuit ( notwithstanding shonky ATC ala CB-SY )

Shagtastic
6th Feb 2007, 22:20
Never mind speed.. the Dash8-400 goes tech quicker than any other aircraft on this blue planet! :eek:

Shags

tlf
6th Feb 2007, 22:54
Bout 350/65 Kts as reported is correct! The bonks have the same core as the J-Model Hercs operated by the RAAF. Qlink were looking at replacing the leading and trailing edge de-ice boots and utilising bleed air to heat the wings in icing conditions if required, thus extending the speed to an estimated 385kts! Yep this is one fantastic machine,:ok: however will Mr Joe Public continue to commute in one when VB start going head to head against this a/c (with there Ejets) one has to wonder?:confused: :confused: :confused:



Trailing edge deice boots?

What are you smoking?

virgindriver
6th Feb 2007, 23:02
How much do you have to slow down when you start hitting a few bumps down there at 20k?

Aussie
7th Feb 2007, 02:18
Hahaha... ITS ON!


If thats what they really Tas at (360) then im pretty sure thats quicker then the C130J... Pass-A-Frozo should be able to confirm!

Howard Hughes
7th Feb 2007, 02:34
How much do you have to slow down when you start hitting a few bumps down there at 20k?
Funnily enough more crying tends to be heard from above FL300, than below...http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/stirthepot.gif

flightfocus
7th Feb 2007, 03:04
I took off from YBMK behind one with only the length of the runway between us,

If I am not mistaken the 400 series is a Medium wake turb above 25,000kg - unlike the 300 series and below.

If this is the case I hope that you requested a wake turb waiver from ATC as this sounds like a break down of departure wake turb. Light behind Medium you gotta have 2 mins or 5 nm :eek:

Howard Hughes
7th Feb 2007, 03:07
Err, I think medium category starts a little lower than 25,000 kg's, say 7000 Kg's (with thanks to flightfocus)...:O

I am not a nerd!:ok:

flightfocus
7th Feb 2007, 03:14
Howard, true - almost.

Light is up to 7,000kgs, however ATC do not need to provide wake turb between Mediums up to 25,000kg and follwoing lighties.

ie: Most turbo props.

pakeha-boy
7th Feb 2007, 04:22
Dash 100/200/400.Dash 7..................BOTTOM FEEDERS!!!! ...the lot of ya:} ..you blokes should not be allowed to operate after 9PM......you should all be in bed and off the tarmac!!!!!!!!!!!!!

b55
7th Feb 2007, 07:32
pakeha-boy,
Actually, Dash's don't operate after 9pm...The crews are in bed (having more fun than you!) and leave the tarmacs to grumpy, red-eyed pilots trying to stay awake and thus, playing with themselves.

Duff Man
7th Feb 2007, 08:37
400s get put on the ODALE arrival and slowed down to the normal turboprop speed into YSSY anyway. Too slow to mix it with the jets on arrival.

So what IAS is normal/max on descent?

Artificial Horizon
7th Feb 2007, 13:10
Duff, the big problem with the Dash 400 is that is a speedy machine in the climb and cruise with an indicated speed of 280 kts possbile but in the descent there is a rediculous in built logic that causes Vmo to reduce gradually so that by FL80 (can't actually remember the exact level as is has been 2 years since I have flown one) it is back to 245 knots. This often used to mean on one of the 45 minute sectors that I operated if you took off immediately befor a 737 on the same route you could hold your own right up until the last part of the desent when it would go sailing past at 300 kts whilst I was forced back to 245 even if cleared at high speed. Apparently this is a design limitation for protection against bird strikes as the panel just above the main windscreen (i.e, at pilot head level) will allow a bird to penetrate right through at higher speeds.

Binoculars
7th Feb 2007, 14:51
More food for thought, particularly after my last post on the "what irks you about ATC" thread. In a procedural environment I work on the principle that both the Dash8 (of whatever variety) and the 737/A320 will take around 8 minutes from 30 miles. There is no way that a DHC8 type turboprop is going to lose to a jet if they are at thirty around the same time. It may be a pain in the ass for the jet doing a step descent but the flexibility of the Dash in the circuit means it is always going to win.

So tonight in Mackay, weather iffy for circling approach, I had computer generated estimates for a Q400 beating a 737, both from the south, by 7 minutes to the field. Both wanted an Rnav approach for Rwy14. No problem, says I to Brisbane en-route, give em what they want. Handover time comes, it's a dead heat. What? I thought there was seven minutes between them? Err, yeah, well, sometimes the computer gets it wrong; how do you want them sequenced? How the hell would I know, says I, not having a clue who is going to finish up in front and by how far.

There was an incredibly long and detailed coordination exercise about what was going to happen, who would be number one, what sort of approach etc, and I found myself thinking, how is this happening? There are only two aircraft in the sky as far as I'm concerned and we're discussing the possibility of making one of them do an orbit at sixty miles! I decide that the 737 will be first cos I can always apply a bit of speed when they call me if necessary. Can you get the 737 through the Dash's level before you transfer them to me? Umm, I think so! The sequence is handed off with the advice that the 737 is reducing speed due turbulence. :uhoh:

Laugh all you want, and in the description it is ridiculous, but it's another example of how decisions have to be made a long time in advance of the event, and despite our best intentions it can go badly wrong. Multiply it by a factor of whatever for full radar environments.

And if the lady who was controlling in Brisbane happens to read this, I'm not putting any **** on you at all! In the end it worked beautifully, but we could equally have finished up BOTH looking pretty silly.

It's a funny old game.

haughtney1
7th Feb 2007, 15:04
Bino, just out of interest, what sort of separation are you using in the TMA?

Binoculars
8th Feb 2007, 06:22
Purely procedural, Haughtney. In this case with two aircraft tracking to different entry points for the same approach vertical separation was the only standard possible until the first aircraft is established on final. Bear in mind that I only own 22 miles and 4500ft of Class D; Brisbane Centre above that is full radar.