Weather minima

[Arm out the window]

Have run across a couple of different points of view regarding provision of an alternate or holding for day VFR helicopter ops, and I'd like to see what others think - fairly timely here for this part of the year.
Aussie AIP ENR 1.1 73 sets out fairly clearly what's required, but there's the caveat right at the start of the weather conditions section that says 'Except when operating an aircraft under the VFR by day within 50NM of the point of departure, the PIC must provide for a suitable alternate...', and then goes on to describe all the alternate minima conditions.
My interpretation of the 50NM caveat is that it's there to allow you to assess the weather conditions yourself in the immediate area, and if staying in that 50NM zone, launch without holding or alternate fuel, although obviously bearing in mind the forecasts AND having somewhere to come back to with appropriate fuel reserves if you can't get through.
It seems to me the idea behind the caveat is to allow the pilot some flexibility if local conditions don't match the forecast, eg departing some HLS for an airfield with alternate requirements on the TAF but with, in your opinion, a good chance of getting through the weather with no real problems.
However, I've also heard people say the 50NM reference doesn't remove the requirement for providing an alternate - if so, what's it there for?
Can anyone shed any light on this?

[albatross]

You must be kidding- an alternate for VFR -in a helicopter? - What constitutes an alternate? Aside from a flat area suitable for landing?

[Arm out the window]

Yeah, I know it sounds over the top, I'm just trying to suss out the right interpretation for how our regs are written.
The 50NM bit applies to fixed wing too, but there are special paragraphs referring to helicopters giving us a bit more scope than the planks.

[800]

Someone once said; "Make a decision based upon justifying it in a court of law", that said the real crux of your question then becomes the difference between what people really do every day compared to what the legistlation advising you how to do it.
Q1. How would you determine if a destination (even a HLS) requires an alternate?
A1. You require a TAF or at a minimum an area forecast.
So even operating with 50nm of your departure point, you still have to assess all information pertaining to the flight, including wind gusts, fog, viz etc you may operate with the thought you can return to your point of departure.
If you are operating outside the 50nm from your dep point, then you have to comply with any alternate requirements due to weather or nav aids etc.
VMC by day; Did you forget this one?
Typically for a helicopter (below 3000ft AMSL or 1000ft AGL, which ever is the higher, 5000m viz and clear of cloud.
Helicopter VMC by day; Within 700ft AGL >>>> 800m viz & clear of cloud. THIS ONE DOES NOT INCLUDE OVER WATER @ BELOW 700FT AMSL
Helicopter VMC by day OVER WATER(ENR 77.9);Within 700ft AMSL >>>> 5000m Viz & 600m horiz & 500ft vertical from cloud.
Helicopters are required to provide for a suitable alternate areodrome when either of the following is forecast at the destination; Viz less than 3000m & cloud greater than sct BELOW A CEILING OF 1000ft.
Always have a backup plan; can I return, where can I go, what about the passengers, what about the mossies if I overnight.
Have fun & keep the ground below you.
800

[Shawn Coyle]

Fixed wing aircraft require alternates for reasons other than weather - accident closes the only runway, crosswind too strong for single runway (perhaps considered as a weather issue), airfield closed for terrorist threat, etc.
Applying the same logic to helicopters is silly - although if all you have to land on is a helipad, and someone goes unservice-able on the pad, it might be interesting.

[Arm out the window]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, 800. It's something that always comes to the fore up here this time of year, and as you say, there's sometimes a conflict between what we do and what we're supposed to be doing by law.

[topendtorque]

A good subject, as you say for this time of year - in the tropics.

Perhaps you could have added the requirements for Inter and Tempo as well which of course have to go on top of your alt cruise requirement, with the usual reserves transferred to each alt after each arrival.

The only thing that I would suggest is that for all controlled A/D destinations that you have in your ops manual a selection of ALA's to spend some time in. Remembering of course the mosquitos as old mate above says and don't forget the lightning.

Think of the money that you will save your company while you play monopoly with your clients in a gauzed in tin shed instead of orbiting at many dollars per hour.

On one occasion when I was waiting very tediously to get out of Kununurra to go home as a PVT F/W flight, quite some tims ago, the only amusement that I had for about three days was to saunter up to the FSU at daylight, check the wx and watch the twin F/W drivers try to get plans accepted.
They might be wishing to fly say 4 people and not much baggage to Darwin.

Simple, one might say, have a look at the map, it's not far after all.

Only a couple of small probs. There were only four A/D's (incl KU) apart from Darwin open north of Alice Springs. The others were Katherine, Gove and Tennant creek.

Usually after 10.30 am Local, you would need to add 60 minutes for Tempo at KU, DN, KN or TN (Tindal) and Gove and 30 for Inter at TC. The prospects for doing anything legal thus diminished rapidly. One day there was Inter at the Alice as well.

It was amusing to watch these guys try to stretch the usual 330 minutes or so of the Baron.

[800]

You may perhaps want to plan for an alternate (not due to weather) when flying offshore (pointing out over the big blue);

conducting MPT (and you cannot find and/or see the vessel)
tracking to an offshore pontoon/helipad and you cannot find/see it or it has sunk or drifted away
an aircraft malfunction necessitating a return to base (or alternate HLS)

You could think of an "Alternate" as another way of saying backup plan! :ok:
800