Jetcraft new conditions?

[jangerlingjangerling]

I heard that Jetcraft have changed their conditions for their pilots. Reduced conditions for new metro drivers and longer waits than promised for the boyz on the van to fly the death pencil. Coming in on days off to marshal the aircraft, thus subsequently removing the aerospace instructors that were paid (all be it not much) to marshal. Is this counted as duty times? The nasty AWA words were thrown around. New contracts and less pay. This is all here say and I hope it isn't true. It is sad to see another turboprop operator pulling out the fist without lube to their workers.


Hope I’m wrong
Jangerlingjangerling

[das Uber Soldat]

The death pencil.

best name for an aircarft, ever.

But yes, i've heard from a few van drivers that this is situation normal. And the aerospace guys aren't really *that* disappointed to be depraved of the privilege of getting up at 4 in the morning to marshal ;)

[ThoughtCrime]

...well they cant f:mad:kin expect to be keeping their drivers very long given the current climate now can they. :E

TC

[tail wheel]

Jetcraft, to it's credit has demonstrated it’s willingness in the past to clarify policy decisions on PPRuNe.

Conjecture helps no one and may be totally misleading.

May I suggest you contact Jetcraft direct with any questions or wait for clarification from the company?

ThoughtCrime, there are those in this industry who are content in a flying career with operators like Jetcraft. You may care to consider that before denigrating your fellow professional pilots? You may be employed by Qantas, Virgin or Jetstar, however not everyone aspires to an airline career!

Tail Wheel
Dunnunda Moderator

[ThoughtCrime]

You may care to consider that before denigrating your fellow professional pilots

That's a negative, tailwheel. :hmm:

My comment is in response to the original conjecture that the conditions at Jetcraft have significantly reduced. If it is true then [insert last comment].

And what does that have to do with airline careers I'm sorry? There's plenty of operators like Jetcraft so moot point really.

Just to be clear. :ok:

TC

[Atlas Shrugged]

http://jwit.webinstituteforteachers.org/~jsales/webquest/images/hooray.gif
At last......"Jetcraft" without the feckin "@" in it!
:D :D

[realitybites]

I think there is alot of complaining going on for no real reason.

It is my understanding from a mate or two that has worked and do work for Jetctaft, that in particular the Caravan drivers get it pretty good.

*Paid 40+K,
*fly almost brand new, very well equiped aircraft (moving map GPS x 2, radar, need i go on)
*live in a capitol city
*work 3 if not 2 days a week, most of which is spent in a motel room.
*mostly have the aircraft loaded and unloaded for them

Not only this but im told alot of them have almost no multi time, and all be it maybe slow progression, will eventually end up with a metro command if they behave themselves.

The alternative like myself and almost all other pilots that fly similar sized aircraft.

*get paid casually or a very low salary, to about half the jetcraft one
*fly very old aircraft, alot of the time with no GPS, all the time no radar.
*live out west, in a community, on an island or cattle station
*work 5-6 days a week, waiting time spent in the aircraft, on a bench at the airport, or if your really lucky get a lift into town to bludge a couch.
*I can tell you now ive never had a light aircraft loaded for me

as far as marshelling is concered, its my understanding jetcraft pilots NEVER have to wash a plane, or EVER do office work,quotes, answer phones etc etc. I know what id rather be doing a couple of times a week.

As for promotions go.... how about going from a caravan to a twin out west for a year or two to get multi time, then spend 12-18 months as an F/O on a metro and start thinking about a command. thats a good 2-3 maybe 4 years from now. Does that time frame look better than waiting for progession in Jetcraft? (also keep in mind metro F/O's most likely get paid less than a caravan pilot for jetcraft, I KNOW)

there is my 2 cents. oh, im not bitter and twised... lol, just know that some people still complain even when they get it easy.

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

Hmmm. First post. Gotta be the boss.

[realitybites]

HAHA not the boss mate, just someone thats been watching for years and only just decided to say something :)

[D Foster]

Tailwheel – seeing that you asked me nicely I’ll take the opportunity to clarify a few items. And no, I’m not Reality Bites – I post under my own name.

All new starts at Jetcraft have been employed on AWAs since June 2006. AWAs have given us a chance to put in place a pay structure that rewards those who fly more. This is done through a flight pay system which pays those on AWAs a base salary plus an amount per flight hour. I believe this is a much fairer system, particularly for night freight pilots who aren’t catered for very well under the GA Award allowance system.

I don’t believe our conditions have been reduced. In fact I spent a fair bit of time designing the AWA structure to ensure they weren’t. I am sure other people will have their opinions on this which is fine. I have negotiated plenty of AWAs in the last 6 months without bursting into tears or attacking anyone because they disagreed with me.

While I am spruiking my wares; all Jetcraft pilots are bonded. We seem to be one of the few companies left who don’t charge for endorsements these days.

We are far from the perfect employer but I think we do ok.

[podbreak]

Tailwheel,

Yes, not all pilots aspire to be in the airlines, but I'm pretty sure all would aspire to get paid more than 40K to live in Syd (with the required experience).

[tail wheel]

Danny, your honest comments are appreciated. :ok:

Podbreak, I am entirely and totally sympathetic to your comment. I am also very sympathetic to first year apprentices on $245 per week, adult labourers on $470 per week and age care workers on $14.00 per hour - State Award rates I may add, not AWA/EBA rates - however that is the law of the land.

[rammel]

I know a couple of people at Jetcraft and to be honest have not heard much grumbling about the company. Currently at QF I think I have more gripes than they do.

[rmcdonal]

I know a few Jetcraft Van Drivers, the only real gripe I hear is that some of them are being overlooked for Metro Upgrades. However I can see its not in the best interest of the company to pay for the endo on the Van then wipe the slate clean in just over a year to start again on the metro. That and they didn't have very much multi time. Conditions are great as far as working days (it really is only 2-3 days a week + some Stdby). But it is true that the living costs in the capitals are fairly high...
All in all :ok:
Beats living in some hot hell hole up north

[concrete wings]

Podbreak.
Have a look at what an F/O gets paid from Easterns on a Dash living in Sydney and compare it with our van drivers. They don't have to live on a wage less the repayments on a 18-20k endorsement.

Since I have been working for JC, I have never had to bribe a camp dog with my lunch so it didn't bite me, caught any tropical diseases, had anyone change dirty nappies in my plane or have to chase people for money!!

You could do so, so much worse.

[chief wiggum]

All new starts at Jetcraft have been employed on AWAs since June 2006. AWAs have given us a chance to put in place a pay structure that rewards those who fly more. This is done through a flight pay system which pays those on AWAs a base salary plus an amount per flight hour. I believe this is a much fairer system, particularly for night freight pilots who aren’t catered for very well under the GA Award allowance system.
so this is win win for the pilots ? There is NO hidden agenda for the company ?
you are SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that the company WILLINGLY wants the pilots to get paid more, and enjoy better conditions?
call me cynical, but I find this a bit hard to swallow! I appreciate your post, mr/ms Foster, but this would be THE FIRST TIME, in the history of Australian Aviation that this has happened.... and Jetcraft introduced it?
I believe you.....
not!

[D Foster]

Poto - as it happens I am not real keen on my employees being on PPrune talking about internal matters. People who've been around for any period of time would realise that our company has taken confidentiality clauses very seriously over the years. Being a small company, people have the ability to speak to flt ops management or others about these matters which is a much better way of dealing with it.

Ahh Chief Wiggum - so cynical! I don't think I have ever tried to BS anyone that Jetcraft exists only for pilot welfare. I've also never tried to pretend that pilots on an AWA are in a win win situation. Some people on AWAs are alot better off than the Award (those doing mostly night freight) and others on AWAs are about par with the Award. We prefer people being on AWAs for a variety of reasons, but none of them are very sinister.

I don't have time to plot against the pilot body, I can't afford industrial consultants to help me and at the end of the day, fighting with people who work for you doesn't strike me as a very clever thing to do.

[chief wiggum]

We prefer people being on AWAs for a variety of reasons, but none of them are very sinister.

VERY sinister?


I don't have time to plot against the pilot body, I can't afford industrial consultants to help me and at the end of the day, fighting with people who work for you doesn't strike me as a very clever thing to do.

thats ok. They are employed under an AWA, therefore you don't NEED to fight with them (or negotiate), you can just sack them... cant you? or bypass them for a command / upgrade etc.

Yes - I am cynical. but that is just cos I have seen it so many times. Do not get me wrong, I have nothing against your company, but I would be VERY VERY wary if someone threw an AWA at me and said " here - sign this. We will pay you more."
Normally pilots get offered less and less. NO employer that I know of has ever offered more without taking something(s) in return!
I think that this quote:Some people on AWAs are alot better off than the Award (those doing mostly night freight) and others on AWAs are about par with the Award says it all.

"ABOUT PAR" ... what the f##k does that mean ? better or worse ? it can't mean the same, cos else you would say "ON PAR WITH THE AWARD!"
I cannot honestlty believe that it would be BETTER, cos then both the night pilots, and the other pilots would be better off... and the company worse off! is this true ?

[tail wheel]

Wiggum. An AWA is an industrial instrument registered under Australian law, which must pass the “no disadvantage” test and provides for the terms, conditions and remuneration under which it engages it’s staff.

I have no connection with Jetcraft but it would appear that company is meeting it’s legal obligations under existing Australian industrial legislation – unlike a number of aviation related companies who blatantly exploit vulnerable staff with apparent impunity. :mad:

Should you have issue with the legislative framework which provides for Australian AWAs, may I suggest you pursue the matter direct with your elected representative, not the company and not in this thread?

[Defenestrator]

I can't think of another company in Australia that offers opportunites to up and comings like Danny. The guys/girls are all remunerated well and on a par with their counterparts. I know this for a fact. Was only yesterday talking to one of their pilots. Nuff said. Leave the guy alone.

D

[Icarus2001]

An AWA is an industrial instrument registered under Australian law, which must pass the “no disadvantage” test and provides for the terms, conditions and remuneration under which it engages it’s staff.
I believe that you will find that the no disadvantage test clause went up in a cloud of smoke last year. Have a look at the NJS AWA thread, award minimum for a 146/717 FO is about $69K but the AWA was $61K. There are now only five (I think) areas protected in an AWA, relativity to the award is NOT one of them.

Poto - as it happens I am not real keen on my employees being on PPrune talking about internal matters. People who've been around for any period of time would realise that our company has taken confidentiality clauses very seriously over the years Yes we can't have the troops actually having a mechanism to talk to each other openly about the company without fear of retribution. A company with NOTHING to hide does NOT NEED confidentiality clauses. Please don't scream commercial reasons.:cool:

[Hans Solo]

Wiggum. An AWA is an industrial instrument registered under Australian law, which must pass the “no disadvantage” test and provides for the terms, conditions and remuneration under which it engages it’s staff.
I have no connection with Jetcraft but it would appear that company is meeting it’s legal obligations under existing Australian industrial legislation – unlike a number of aviation related companies who blatantly exploit vulnerable staff with apparent impunity.
Should you have issue with the legislative framework which provides for Australian AWAs, may I suggest you pursue the matter direct with your elected representative, not the company and not in this thread?
Nice try Loose Wheel,
Whilst you try and sound intelligent and as if you know what you're on about, the fact is you have'nt a clue!
The no disadvantage test no longer exists, and just for the record, this particular company has a history of exploiting vulnerable staff with apparent impunity.
I speak from personal experience, so dont quote me any nonsense about this company meeting its" legal obligations" in regard to its employees.:mad:

[natbanger]

Well done Danny.

Having no affiliation with you or your company I do however applaud you for your honest comments. GA is tuff, costs are high and if people don't like their conditions, talk to the company and negotiate or leave. You are never going to stop whingers. Some people just can't be pleased and others don't appreciate oportunities given. However some do and those you find don't post and complain. Keep up the good work.