Piper Cherokee ditches off Kingscliff (Merged)

[sinala1]

7 News reporting a Piper Cherokee ditched approx 50m offshore just south of Kingscliff... 6 onboard, 2 did not survive resus attempts - fate of other 4 currently unknown

Condolences to the familes :(

EDITED to note that the above media report has now been proven to contain little fact, and to change aircraft type in thread title

[beaver_rotate]

Just on TV. Piper Cherokee down south of Tweed Heads. 6 POB. 2 deceased. Apparently was a ditching. Please feel free to correct me on any info as it comes to hand.
RIP.
:(

[das Uber Soldat]

always going to end badly ditching a fixed gear aircraft. I assume it was a Cherokee 6?

[Aussie]

Anyone know who the operator was?

[Merlins Magic]

Channel Nine Brisbane reported a twin engine light aircraft, news.com.au reports only 1 POB.

PPrune reporting Cherokee and 6 POB with 2 deceased.

I'm confused. A factual event needs no false details. This may be a rumour network but this is not a rumour.

Facts only please.
:confused:

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[Pseudonymn]

Merlins Magic,

Channel 7 news in Qld did report that a Piper Cherokee with 6 POB ditched 50 metres off shore. I believe the first two posters included that in their post, did they not? One witness that 7 interviewed also said there were problems with both engines. :confused:

I agree that facts only should be reported, however when different news agencies report different things, who are you to believe?

ABC web has a twin engine plane in their article...

[Whizzwheel]

From NineMSN this morning - not exactly a 'factual' report:

Girl watches man jump from doomed plane
Monday Feb 5 04:00 AEDT
By ninemsn staff

A 9-year-old girl has told police she saw a man jump out of a light plane to his death moments before the aircraft went down off the NSW north coast yesterday.

"I saw the plane go past and do a big circle and then someone jumped out before it crashed into the water," said Bobbi-Jay Fairlie, who was out walking her dog on Casuarina Beach at the time of the crash.

"I ran straight home real fast to tell my mum and dad. I was scared and sad."




Police believe the pilot was the only person on board when the plane crashed near Casuarina Beach at Kingscliff about 4.30pm (AEDT) Sunday, The Courier Mail reports.

One body, believed to be the pilot, has been recovered from the water, but a search was continuing in the area yesterday.

Bobby-Jay's father was among a group of Casuarina locals who swam out through rough surf looking for survivors after the crash.

"I swam past part of the wing — I could taste and smell the fuel in the water," Fairlie said.

Brent Lambert, another Casuarina resident, was eating dinner when he saw the plane "coming down over the trees at a 45-degree angle towards the ocean".

"It was coming down on a sharp angle. It was coming down hard and fast," Lambert told the Courier.

"We heard a massive splash and ran straight down here (to the beach) to look for survivors and wreckage. I rang Triple 0 and went straight into the ocean."

"We didn't see anyone but there was a lot of debris — all the seat covers and safety gear were scattered through the water."

Surf lifesavers on jetskis and rubber boats found wreckage and a body shortly after the plane went down.

Civil Aviation Safety Authority spokeswoman Michelle Harris said the pilot reported engine problems shortly before the light plane, which had taken off at Coolangatta Airport on the Gold Coast, plunged into the ocean.

Air crash investigators are expected on the scene this morning.




Condolences to the family.

[185skywagon]

Courier Mail 5/2/07 Civil Aviation Safety Authority spokeswoman Michelle Harris said the pilot reported engine problems to air traffic control just before the light, twin-engine Piper Cherokee descended rapidly into the ocean.
"The pilot attempted to land on the beach ," Ms Harris said.

Handing down his findings last year into a 2002 Piper Cherokee crash on Hamilton Island, which claimed six lives, state coroner Michael Barnes noted that the aircraft type had been involved in 134 accidents or serious incidents between 1969 and 2001, of which 46 involved fuel tank incidents.

:ugh: :ugh:

[Dogimed]

Cherokee Tip tank?
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5379473,00.jpg

[groundstation]

I think you'll find that the aircraft was a Twin Comanche, not a Cherokee 6 as reported by the newspapers.

[Miraz]

Media coverage this morning seems to have decided that it was a Comanche flown by a 61 year old pilot.

[Going Nowhere]

VH-DIC was the rego I think.

[flyboy6876]

From SMH this morning - www.smh.com.au
Doomed plane 'diving really fast'
David Braithwaite
February 5, 2007 - 11:30AM
The pilot of a light plane had little chance to escape as it nosedived into the water off a Northern NSW beach yesterday, a witness to the crash says.
Brent Lambert said today that the engines of the Piper Twin Comanche plane were roaring before it crashed 200 metres in front of his Casuarina Beach home about 5.30pm.
"It was diving really fast. There was no chance of landing it," he said.
"It looked in a bit of a nosedive - the engines were going really loud; it wasn't like it glided in."
Witnesses told police the aircraft was flying low in a northerly direction when it crashed.
Rescuers recovered the male pilot's body from the water. He was the only person aboard the aircraft and police say he is likely to be identified today.
Mr Lambert was having dinner at his beachfront house when he heard the plane's engines.
"I thought that's a bit close to the house," he said.
"I looked out and the plane was coming in on a 45-degree angle straight into the ocean - it made a massive bang into the water."
After he phoned triple-0, Mr Lambert said he and other onlookers on the nearly deserted beach swam out to the submerged plane in the hope of rescuing any survivors.
"As soon as I got out there, I found the headrest to a seat and the petrol canister off the wing. There was a lot of safety gear around and fuel all through the water."
There was a strong rip in the surf at the crash site and the recovery of the body from near the plane indicated the pilot had not jumped, Mr Lambert said.
"It was diving that fast, I couldn't see how someone could get out of it," he said.
"It looked like it was going south to north, so I assume he was trying to land on the beach."
Air Transport Safety Bureau investigators would examine the crash site this afternoon, the bureau's deputy director aviation safety investigation, Julian Walsh, said.
The plane had taken off from Gold Coast Airport at Coolangatta and it was believed the pilot had reported engine problems, Mr Walsh said.
Witnesses to the crash can phone the bureau on 1800 020 616, he said.

[J430]

Very sad indeed
J:(

[Diatryma]

J,

Sorry - I must be a bit thick, but I'm missing your point. :ugh:

Do I need to read beteeen the lines?

If you are suggesting the pilot radio'd an engine failure when that was not the case - what's your reasoning again?

(I hestitate to ask!)

Di :confused:

[Diatryma]

Thanks J,

I'll agree it was sad.

But I'm not sure I'd take much notice of a witness saying "the engines were going really loud" to draw any meaningful conclusions at this early stage.

I would not be suggesting what you appear to be suggesting.

Di :=

[777WakeTurbz]

Yeah a witness saying the engines were going really loud could just mean he heard "an" engine running really loudly, almost as reliable as a journos report into the type of aircraft :ugh::}

Condolances to the pilots family and friends, terrible to see things like this happen in GA.

Turbz

[dghob]

So here we have a witness (the Casuarina Beach resident) to the accident who described what he saw as well as he was able. Not only was he a witness - he was one of several people who perhaps put their own safety at risk to attempt a rescue. I'd like to think I was as good a citizen as that guy.

I know his concern for others isn't being questioned here, but the thing is he had a decent crack at describing what he saw. Because someone isn't an aviation "expert" should their witness statements be ignored (or ridiculed in some cases) as being unreliable or ridiculous? What if this guy does in fact know a thing or two about aviation but doesn't feel the need to justify himself?

Admittedly some witness observations are farcical, but the real experts can sort through them and I suspect that from time to time analysis of witness statements have pointed investigations in the right direction, or at least offered confirmation of findings.

Well done to the witness and condolences to the pilot's loved ones..

dghob

[Diatryma]

dghob,

I'm not sure about Turbz, but the point I was making is that it's not reasonable to suggest the pilot committed suicide based on a witness saying "the engines were going really loud".

Even if the witness was the ultimate expert on the matter.

Di :}

[dghob]

Diatryma:

Agreed.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Strange that it couldn't even maintain height with ONE person on board.:confused: More likely a fuel problem? I've heard about problems involving takeoffs on the tip tanks causing unporting on alternating sides as each engine surges?

[Zhaadum]

I have no idea why it crashed, but consider this.

Tip tank fuel is accessed on Twin Commanche via a selector turned to AUX tank, plus a switch which opens a solonoid valve to allow the TIP tanks to drain into the AUX.

If a pilot was to have an electrical failure or switch off both generators in flight the loss of electrical power would close the solenoids and may lead to a engine/s failure due to fuel starvation if the tank selectors are not returned to MAIN.

As I said, no idea if this is/was the cause, but something to be aware of in this type.

Z.:(

[18-Wheeler]

Saluté John, I will miss you, even though I haven't seen you in many years.

A first-class top bloke.

[404 Titan]

Zhaadum

It is a long time since I last flew a PA30 but if my memory serves me correctly an electrical failure will result in the solenoids staying in the last selected position. Correct me if I’m wrong?

MakeItHappenCaptain

Again someone might want to correct me if my memory is a little faded but take-off, climb, descent and landing can only be done on the main tanks. Tips and Aux’s are for level flight only for the exact reason you have just said.

[Diatryma]

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2007/AAIR/aair200700358.aspx


Di

[remoak]

I'm not sure about Turbz, but the point I was making is that it's not reasonable to suggest the pilot committed suicide based on a witness saying "the engines were going really loud".

Absolutely.

How do you know that he didn't have a heart attack, or some other physical issue? That possibility would fit the facts a lot better.

Ascribing the crash to suicide is incredibly hard on the family, when it could easily have been something else. Some of you should think before you post.:=:=:=

[Brian Abraham]

This thread is bordering on the idiotic with the suggestion being floated. J430 you ought to be offerring an apology for suggesting at such an early stage such a rediculous explanation. While it may, and I say MAY, be an explanation, its extremely unlikely, I say again, EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY UNLIKELY. I'm not prejudging the case, but how about a more reasonable scenario which is how many twins come to grief - loss of control following an engine failure. Idiot.

[Jenna Talia]

I see in the ATSB report, the pilot experienced problems with the left engine. The initial analysis is the left engine was developing power and the right propellor feathered at the time of impact. :confused:

[Brian Abraham]

Read the full report. The answers there.

[J430]

Brian A,
Hey I know we all can shoot from the hip, seems you just did too. Brian Abraham Read the full report. The answers there. lets do that shall we, read the preliminary report.....then wait for the full and FINAL report.


J

[Brian Abraham]

wait for the full and FINAL report

You may wish to carve that quote into your forehead before bursting into print on the next accident.

Depending on how certain "facts" are presented you can draw greatly varying conclussions.

If you read the report there is absolutely no way you can possibly make a case for the suggestion you floated. I say again, idiot.

[Jenna Talia]

Brian,

Just read the full report and it is explained very clearly.

Thanks for the heads up.

JT

[Diatryma]

J,

Mate you are out of line and should pull your head in.

You should not have made any such suggestion or inuendo (ie: suicide) in the first place.

I wouldn't call you and idiot - but the more posts you make...........

This incident is sad as you say, but you are rubbing salt in potentially.

Just let it go and don't do it again.

Please!

Cheers,

Di :ok:

[J430]

Ladies and gents, in the vast majority of media reports, the facts are so far from what is printed, I would suggest that none of us ever post anything at all. My comment or fear was....based on descriptions printed by the media........ ATSB report clears things up quite well I think, so in order to keep some folk happy I will remove my "concerns" which were commented on some six weeks before the ATSB released their report.

J

[Brian Abraham]

J430, To explain. Some 35 or so years ago a very good friend of mine lost his life in an accident. No one observed the accident and the wreck was not found for some two days. I had dinner with him and his not long wife a week before the accident and he spent the evening enthusiastically and with great passion talking of his ambitions in the aerobatic competition arena of aviation. He had a competition coming up and hoped to do well. Someone, somewhere for some reason floated the story that it was suicide, and that rumour pervades today in some areas of the aviation family, indeed it was even mentioned in a thread here on proon a few months ago as being suicide. I can assure everyone with all the certainity that a friend can muster that it was not suicide but merely the outcome of the same cause that brings us some 80% of our accidents - pilot error. Is someone in 35 years time going to be talking of this twin accident as being suicide with some authority because he read it on a professional pilots website many years ago? Mud sticks (unfortunately) and once the horse has bolted............ You should have learnt by now to treat anything in a paper and things observed by non aviation people with some scepticism. Indeed, if you get into accident investigation even well credentialled aviation people are not always reliable witnesses you'll find.