How many pilots have left the big Q?

[Bazzamundi]

You don't get to hear too much in the dark side (longhaul) about short haul matters sometimes, but mention has been made that a significant number of 737 F/O's are quitting to leave for greener pastures. Also heard a few 767 F/O's have gone, as well as quite a few S/O's up in Honkers for Cathay interviews of late. 76 Captains flying as F/O's and S/O's, CIS messages begging for S/O's on the 400 to give back their leave. And all training slots for S/O's to be upgraded to F/O were recently cancelled for the rest of the training year?

Are the rumours true? Hopefully a crewing shortage coming soon so when asked to help out I can kick them back in the short and curlies. Serves them right if it is happening.

Most of all, given current practices, they will not be putting anyone extra on, just relying on crisis management to get planes airborne. Time for us all to do our bit to help out me thinks.

Thanks but no thanks.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

A few have left with rumours of a lot more with feelers elsewhere. I personally know of three 737 CAPTAINS who are busily getting their JAA licences.

The CP apparently mentioned to someone recently that if 20 captains left Qantas then the point would be made.

GD doesn't seem to realise a couple of things:

Losing a LH FO, with a command endorsement, is the same as losing a cruise captain in any other airline.

He also seems to be expecting to crew the massive expansion of J* Int with pilots either opting out of mainline for a command, or being forced out by redundancy and taking a job with J*... I have news for him, a few may do it but most will seek to take advantage of the opportunities now being offered elsewhere at 3 times the pay Jetstar can come up with.

Soon QF may be having trouble crewing mainline flights... if even half the rumoured numbers are true.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke.

[Keg]

Lots of numbers doing the rounds. Two per week was one of them. I know of three who have gone back to the RAAF and have spoken to another two that are just waiting for the right time in the next few months. I know of three S/Os who have had a request for LWOP knocked back (all on the 744)....one of them quit on the spot! :E

Is this really a sign of a healthy company?:E

I remember the shortages of crew on the 767 in 00/01 and it wasn't pretty. I'm not looking forward to that again when it bites- and it will bite.

[Shot Nancy]

Almost impossible to go down the JAR route if you do not have EU right of abode.
Well when it bites comply with your contract.
Take your contractual leave, dont give it back.
Take min op, not a drop more and then if you have to divert, so be it. It cuts both ways.
CP on over $1,000,000 will have to earn every cent when flights are cancelled.

[Aussie]

They havent been recruiting for a while, perhaps they better get it into gear!

[Crusty Demon]

In the climate of cost cutting that exists within the company, they will not recruit until they have had to cancel flights, and have already lost lots of dough. They will never spend money in a proactive manner on staff.

Funny thing is that with all the garbage that comes out of Bullsh!t castle (QCC) from management, even the old time senior company men are becoming very distrusting and the lure of continuing to fly beyond 60 is being balanced against protection of their super come July before the government or new owners have a change in heart. There may be a few more retirements in July than was previously expected. Funny how these previous 'the sun shines out of Qantas' backside' people are now also very negative.

I also heard a 400 Captain left for Emirates a month or two back, not sure if this is true or not. Most S/O's are thinking long and hard now, but just waiting to see what unfolds over the next few months.

As crewing gets tight on some types, cost cutting prevents training of surplus crews from other aircraft and the carnage begins. In the last two months I have not answered any calls on my phone with a private number given the Christmas crap that went on. People would be willing to help out usually, but this year they have displayed utter contempt for us so they can go and get stuffed.

Glad I have sick leave up my sleeve. Stress and overwork may cause it to be required this year. At least before I get forced to Jetstar (reality go overseas or quit aviation completely) when it becomes worth nothing.

Once a great company, now just a roadblock in an aviation career.

:ugh:

[Veruka Salt]

6 - 8 per month.

[Gnadenburg]

Pilots are generally poor investors due lack of due diligence and ego-orientated positivity. Where are these guys going? Interested if they did their 'professional due diligence'.

In terms of market forces, when QF pilots start leaving for the likes of Emirates or Cathay, you have the dog chewing it's own tail scenario.

Good luck to 'em.

[-438]

You know it's bad when even Qantas Cadets are not taking their slots in the big Q.
Rumour has it some of the placed cadets in Jetstar Asia are staying there to get their command and rejecting the mothership.

[CaptCloudbuster]

:oh: I can confirm 1 Capt in AO wetlease who has only to now accept formally his job offer from JAL of a commuting contract. He was refused leave of absence by QF and sees no future in permanent rotating and the constant slide in mainline conditions.:eek:

[freddyKrueger]

Perhaps those 55+ with their life savings in a defined benefits super scheme may be starting to get nervous. My understanding is it is the employers choice to be able to leave a defined benefit scheme, please correct me if I am wrong.
Why not go an take a contract elsewhere, with your super tucked up safe in a rollover account?
I'm sure those financial engineers over at maquarie can find a way to shaft employees of what is really a large IOU. The Ansett administrators did.
Dixon seems to lament the fact we don't have any chapter 11 style laws here so that businesses can simply walk away from previous obligations.

Never stand between maquarie bank and even a small pile of money.

[neville_nobody]

I always find it interesting that investor reports and the like always go on about how well QF are managed and that this is a strength of the company. People outside of QF think that GD and the crew are a first class management team and know what they are doing. I am wondering how long it will be until the bubble bursts and things really start falling apart. For a airline like QF to be losing crews is an absolute disgrace from a managers perspective. Up until recently they had most pilots in Australian trying to get a job with them and to now have people going overseas instead is really saying something. QF have some of the cheapest and FREE pilots in the world (remember that Singapore, all Chinese, Cathay Cadets, Emirates Cadets etc etc PAY for the ENTIRE cost of pilot's licenses, whereas pilots come to QF ready to go for zero cost, including the interviewing process)

Or is this just the idea...... offload all the QF crews then replace them with wetleased J* crews?

[Bazzamundi]

Since my first post I have found for certain there was a 400 Captain who knocked back Emirates in a hard decision a couple of months ago. His rationale was that at 55 protect the Super, and more importantly take a DEC on the 777 where you get to fly more than the old London or LA stuff. Five years of adventure before you retire sort of thing. He believed the overall net package factoring in housing, tax rates, renting out his house etc. meant not a huge difference in pay. Wonder what the thinking is now they have increased the pay? Maybe I will kick the kids out of home and go and have some fun as 55 comes closer. Certainly not to be ruled out at the least. Would not have thought that way a couple of years ago.

A loss of a 400 Captain results in about 3 command courses, 3 F/O courses and another S/O course potentially to the company so overall the company will lose big time. If this starts to happen, potentially the money will add up.

Certainly food for thought for those of us more junior not able to see any increasing seniority as the super senior hang around past 60 clogging the Pacific.

This year should be an interesting one. Wonder what the bonus will be for management? Don't they believe that a moderate staff turnover is a sign of a healthy company? With that rationale I suppose they will all get another 33% increase in pay and bonus. Makes sense really.

:}

[Keg]

...as the super senior hang around past 60 clogging the Pacific.

Rumours suggest that many may well take the (tax free) money and run post 1 Jul. 80% and possibly higher! The list shows about 100 crew who are due to hit 60 before 1 Jul 08.

[TineeTim]

In terms of market forces, when QF pilots start leaving for the likes of Emirates or Cathay, you have the dog chewing it's own tail scenario.

Really? Both offer more/similar $$$ as QF. Both offer better prospects than QF WRT promotion. One offers DEFO positions based in OZ. Both are making money. Both have large A/C orders. Neither is agressively competing with itself by starting LCCs. I could go on but you get the picture.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. A LOT of s/h F/Os are looking. Some are serious, others are just looking. The saddest thing is that none ever thought they would leave QF. The even sadder thing is that NONE would leave if it wasn't for the 'Dixon Plan'.

[ratpoison]

Yes gentlemen, and one has to ask why 43 drivers mostly Capt's have left Emirates in the last 15 months. Those thinking of it, think REAL BLOODY HARD.

[Bazzamundi]

Bet they don't leave Emirates to join Qantas.

[Crusty Demon]

Anyone know if the 737 F/O's who have been farmed out to Europe have gotten commands at all? Heard various stories about this.

If they do, I wonder how many will choose to come back?

[DUXNUTZ]

As someone who has held the big Q (still do i guess) as a career goal since a young boy i cannot believe what i'm reading.

Its self evident that dixon et al form at best an agressive and hostile management but can it be that bad? I thought those of you on LH were largely protected and it was only us 'with aspirations' that are effectively only offered a "B" scale with the J-Star.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Ratpoison, I think most QF guys are aware of the pro's and cons of EK.

That is why most of the interest is coming from F/O's and S/O's. These are the guys who are seeing their QF career and commands going down the drain and are now faced with a choice.

1. Accept a J* Command and leave QF... because that is what the MOU states they must do.

2. Get a quick command at another airline, get those precious heavy-jet command hours and become a very saleable item. or,

3. Stay in QF in their current rank for an indefinite time.

Options 1 and 2 are the same thing in essence, but Option 2 will be more lucrative. It will also have the advantage of giving GD the finger. Some will go for Option 3.

I reiterate, if GD thinks he is going to crew J* from the ranks of highly experienced QF FO's, in the current market for pilots, I think he will be in for a rude shock.

[freddyKrueger]

1. Accept a J* Command and leave QF... because that is what the MOU states they must do.
I believe the calculation for a B767 FO is that it will take 6 years to BREAK EVEN by going to j*, taking 2 years to command, compared to staying where they are.
For A330 SO's it would probably pay.

I can't see many takers for option 1.

[QFinsider]

I reckon they have seriously misread the J* idea...

I personally know of 35 guys who have applications elsewhere. I think I will be out by year end, hopefully sooner.

Let the suits come and fly:E

[Gnadenburg]

Cutest of Borg

Let's do professional due diligence on Option 2.

Where are the fast track commands for QF F/O's abroad?

EK? Personally, I'd prefer J* and a house in Lakemba over Arab bread & Dubai.

CX? 8-10 years to command. A lot can happen in 10 years.

Dragonair? The 12 month commands have long dried up. Total uncertainty with career progression in light of the CX takeover.

A contract upgrade? Ensure you have it in writing.

Others?

[blueloo]

I thought Lakemba was like living in Dubai ? Is it not..... ? :} :}

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Gnad. People will put up with Dubai for as long as it takes to get what they need. Guys are doing it already.

Some Japanese airlines are also looking at the Command endorsements that LH FO's have, with a view to putting them straight into the left-hand seat.

More opportunities will undoubtedly come up.

GD should realise that Ian Oldmeadows strategy is about five years too late.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Talking to mates at KA the expansion is on again since the CX takeover...I would think commands around 2-3 years are possible...athough having said that KA are starting to lose guys because of pollution concerns wrt young families...and are having difficulty attracting suitable people because T&Cs have been stagnant for a long time.

Talking to a 767 captain mate in Japan they are making US15k/mth tax free (if you are carefull:E ) on a commuting contract. (10 consecutive days off + 2 leave days/mth)...commands in probably < 4 years. Less if you arrived with shedloads of time on type. The initial licencing marathon providing a very effective barrier to recruitment and hence spiraling T&Cs..spiralling upwards that is.

Etihad hiring A330 DECs, even if you've only flown a Boeing as captain, on AUD20k/mth+ (including buying something, apartment or big bastard boat, with accom allowance). Abu Dhabi is a fair bit nicer than DXB...plus another payrise muted to keep pace with EK's recent modest one.

Even the little airline I work for has typical time to command, widebody, of 1-4 years depending on time on type (or not) on joining...doesn't pay quite as much as some but neither are we living in a fug of pollution and paying through the nose to do so (HK), or dealing with the issues of DXB...and there is upwards pressure on our pay too, like everywhere else in Asia and ME.
There are good options out there.

[TineeTim]

For most of the guys I know it isn't just about which seat you're in. I haven't had a payrise in 4+ years (737F/O) and I'm not holding my breath this year. Every one of those years QF made a profit. This year's profit is rumoured to be in the neighborhood of $1 BILLION. I can't be bothered looking it up but I reckon GD and his mates would have had a payrise in at least 3 of those 4 years. No payrise is only sustainable if constant growth provides constant promotion, and the payrise that goes with it, even then it's not palatable. Where is the growth in QF? Jet* is it. I'm not sitting around waiting to be offered a command on 10-20% more than I make now. I'm looking elsewhere and it isn't just for rapid promotion.

[SkyScanner]

-438
NO jetstar asia cadets have knocked back qf, that is completely wrong.

Crusty Demon
With regards to the 737 guys in EasyJet, they have been offered commands but the necessary paperwork and extra exams is going to take up too much time and they will be returning after 12 months.

Hope this clears some things up

[Gnadenburg]

Cutest of Borg

Fair enough. It is a sorry state of affairs, that guys are leaving QF and the Australian lifestyle for some of these outfits.

If it's undercutting, cheap and nasty Australian aviators they are looking for respite from. Unfortunately, there are plenty more abroad!

Chimbu

You may be the expert, however, your attrition report and time to command timeline at Dragonair seems ambitious. I've heard if you join now, time to command would be 5 years plus. Worse, if the integration sees Dragonair pilots placed at the bottom of the CX seniority heap.

[Angle of Attack]

5 + years to command in Dragonair? If thats the pessimistic view then damn, what do you think the timeframe is to command in QF if you joined now? 15+ would be the absolute minumum. FACT I know of 11 Long haul F/O's who have left in the last 3 months. Not just to Emirates, but various places. As for those actively seeking alternative employment? I have no Idea but I guess the word rhymes with bitloads. :E especially in junior F/O and S/O ranks.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Gnads only reporting the opinions of those working at KA...and who have been for many years...and, yes, some are not happy there...I am sure you're familiar with the old family back in Oz commuting routine. Yes the wheels looked like they had fallen off for a while but they are back into expansion again with CX, apparently, unable to utilise KAs Australian slots so KA looks to be going to do the Oz flying after all. Would CX stick the whole lot on the bottom of their juniority list? Wouldn't that require a bit of a payrise for just about every single KA pilot?

Much is made of the so called Australian lifestyle...truth be known Australia has become a very expensive place...pay and conditions are not keeping up except for the top few %. It is entirely possible to have a great lifestyle outside Oz...although HK wouldn't be my first choice:ok:

[Gnadenburg]

In respect to professional due dilligence for QF F/O's-

1) EK. Time to command 3-5 years? Live amongst peacful Mohammadans. F/O's will clear about 6000AUD a month without overtime? Which is less than a Russian pole dancer in the UAE.

2) CX. The DEFO option looks popular with QF F/O's. What's the pay? Career progression?

3) Dragonair. Hong Kong pollution. Ongoing industrial campaign. And I'd dispute a quick command being available for somebody joining now. How about HK Air? No housing package though!

4) Japanese Airlines. How quickly did the ex-AN F/O's upgrade? This was the last group to leave Oz en masse.


Although ignorant of the industrial realities facing QF pilots, aswell as the rapid expansion of J*, living in Oz as a QF pilot still would seem better than some of the outfits listed above. And there are ex-QF drivers who failed to last at a few of the above mentioned carriers!

[Crusty Demon]

For those of us more junior, lets see, management writes something in the Flight Ops news along the line of the average Qantas career being about 36 years, which in turn should mean time in each rank of about 12 years. That is assuming no growth. However, because QF is so excellent, growth will mean expect a command in about 18 years. Yippeeee.

Now they never tell us lies - the airline is growing right? Did they quote any figures for an airline that is shrinking like mainline is at present?

Choice - stay here with no real chance of progression, take a huge paycut to go to Jetstar as an F/O with no guarantee of a quick command (and fork out nearly $40 grand to do so) or pack up the bags and look elsewhere. The choice is getting more obvious every day.

[Jetsbest]

I've been in over 10 years and I have seen nothing to encourage me that my time to command is less than 5 more years from NOW unless I move to Cairns or resign and join J*. I'm actively pursuing other options and/or supplementation.
I reckon it's the 'market forces' management has wanted and mainline will freeze/shrink as pilots resign/retire to be replaced with those who'll accept lower conditions... that is... until J* catches up or exceeds mainline conditions because they can't get enough pilots either and/or J* pilots leave soonest to greener fields.
Short-sighted and dishonourable if you ask me, and hardly worth tens of millions in bonuses for 'the few', especially considering the disharmony being actively engendered. But there you go. What would I know; I'm just living it in wide-eyed amazement.:rolleyes:

[Veruka Salt]

I was there 6 yrs and my best guestimates put me a further 15 yrs off command. . . :uhoh:

Gnadenburg, regarding the CX DEFO positions; the base pay is on par with mainline 767 FO rates, but the conditions are superior. Time to command at CX is historically around 9 yrs. This will reduce given the airline's expansion plans. Regardless, it's still a hell of a lot better than waiting in line for the QF command that will never happen! :ugh:

[Dogslay]

Gnadenburg, I can tell you that a number of the ex Ansett FO's have upgraded in 3 years or just a few months more at NCA. That is also a 747 being their first command.

[company_spy]

Pilots are not the only ones ready to leave enmass , when the company switches over to EASA rules the QF LAME'S wll all be off to greener pastures. The last lot of redundances were heavily oversubscribed. Might as well get something out of them.
It will be interesting to see where they get their next batch of certifiers from.

[hotnhigh]

Glad I have the jar licence locked away in the cupboard.
What we need to know is what is really happening at Jetstar Int. Rumours everywhere about who's being paid what but what is the real recruitment scenario being experienced there?
Hopefully, this short term itis that dixon and joyce carry with them will cause them serious heartache shortly.
As for the numbers going, it's only goingh to increase, however GM of qantas believes that QF is immune from the problem.:ugh:

[Gnadenburg]

A couple of points.

Firstly, if the hot air manifests itself in to genuine attrition ( say 5% ), don't rely on this being a panacea for mainline ills. Nothing will change!!!!! Except, perhaps, with an industrial campaign along the lines of work to rule. But what would be the objective?

Secondly, as mentioned earlier, the last set of circumstances that had F/O's leave Australia en masse was the collapse of Ansett. As evidenced by Dogslay above, careers have been saved and flourished very quickly. There is good opportunity for professional due dilligence from QF F/O's wishing to leave.

The worm can turn. Some luck, sound professional due dilligence, could see many F/O's leaving QF now, in just a few years, well positioned for the possible new direction of Australian aviation. Professional mobility would be the catch cry- translating into widebody command experience and a freedom to play the market from Australia or more lucratively, abroad.

Languishing as a long time F/O in a legacy carrier, with the advent of new licencing, could make you obsolete in the last great bull run of aviation as we know it.

Far fetched? Just relating my experiences since Sept 11 and applying them to a crystal ball.

[International Trader]

I would advise F/Os thinking about leaving for greener pastures to think twice.
It is very rare for foreign carriers to upgrade expatriate F/Os.
F/O time means sweet F.A. on the outside.
You would be foolish to believe that a company would come calling for you and lay out the red carpet (leading to a rapid command ) just because you have worked for the famous(?) Red Rat. Any QF reputation also means F.A. to them. You would be a contractor that they want to get the most out of and pay the least for ,while they upgrade their own.
If you go to one that upgrades, you would basically be starting your career again as 5 years to command is starting again ,unless were are a 250 hour cadet ( then it would be about 8). In the meantime you would be flying with captains who may well have half your experience. Let's not talk about ability.
I hear that Vn has finally upgraded some expatriate F/Os but they had to pay for the training .Wonder if they had to go onto local pay scales as well.This is a common tactic if an upgrade is considered.

Contract flying is for captains not F/Os.

Proven in '89 and when AN fell ( or was it pushed ?)
Captains are the marketable ones, even though they are the ones that will bitch the most about how much better it was back in the "old company".They will also have a harder time adjusting to other cultures and procedures .
But then again ,that's why they get paid ...the really big bucks! ( Now that's a rare beast as well).
Stories you hear about fancy cars and big boats in the sand pit and HK are funded out of pilot pockets , they aren't free.
These are attempts at creating lifestyles to make the time spent in these places bearable.
You will never again have the same lifestyle as back home, working for QF. The lifestyle will be as good as the amount of money you want to throw at it.

Time for the QF captains to move on and give you a career path.

Most likely though,they will stay to the end, suck the tit dry and feed off the carcass before moving off to greener patures ,leaving the skin and bones to you. Probably also expecting the red carpet!
Isn't seniortity a wonderful thing?
AAHH!....leadership....that's what it is!

[gliderboy]

International Trader
Very insightful post....right up until you contradict yourself at the end. What you basically said was stick around guys......except the greedy QF Captains won't move aside so you WILL be stuck in the RHS forever.
Fact: moving overseas is a BIG step and not for everyone.
I applaud anyone in QF seriously thinking about moving. It is a big step but provided your decisions are sound, involving ALL your family circumstance, I (personally) feel you would be doing yourself a favour. That said, if you are the sort of person who rates the Oz way of life beyond trying another country's way of life then stay.
I was pushed into leaving OZ...and so far it seems it was the best thing my family ever did. That's not to say I will be here forever but right now it is better than I could be achieving in OZ.
Gliderboy

[Keg]

It should be noted too that going o/s isn't for every F/O in QF. I'm 3-5 from a command in QF...maybe a bit less but I doubt it. Going to EK, CX or anyone else won't do much for me. However some of my compatriots who are 500-700 numbers junior to me and with some decent F/O time under their belt may well be much better off going o/s and gaining their command in 5 years. The pay differential that they earn by the early upgrade to command o/s may mean that they can retire up to a decade earlier than if they'd hung around in QF....even taking into account those things to make the 'lifestyle' better.

Just a thought! :cool:

[Bedder believeit]

I'm an expat controller, but viewing this thread with interest. I don't know if it has been mentioned earlier or not...well I didn't see it, is "exchange rates". I have seen lots of talk about upgrade speculation, lifestyle, is Dubai better than Hong Kong (I have lived in both) etc, but it doesn't take long once you become an expat to turn first (yes...past the sports pages) to the business section and see what the latest AUD$ exchange rate is. Even those that leave Oz with intentions to be away for a while generally have some financial commitments to home. I know that virtually all airline pilots yearn for the Left seat if they aren't already there, but the bottom line remains, well, the bottom line. My salary in Oz dollar terms has eroded by about 35% over the last 4 or so years. True, much of my living costs are in HK dollars, but with investment properties and family in Oz, then fluctuations in the currency rates can have a big effect on you. Just thought I might bring this up, as it is quite an issue for expats actually. Cheers (Sorry Keg, I seem to be following you round)

[hotnhigh]

Keg,
I'm with you,..... however.... Upgrade on what??????????
Lets hope the rumours are true that JI cant handle the explosive expansion that the 787 may provide.
Interstingly no one has providied info on what is really happening there.
Still every fo and so looks on with baited (?) breath.
And also interestingly not much comment from JI girls/gals.
I'm over the us and them thing, what i want is a solution to this current conundrum.
Simple, what contract improvements do the jpc see in any upcoming eba negotiations? Mainline fos/sos cant wait as this is where their future negotiation are at, because lets face it, that is where the company is at.
JB to CM " what pilot shortage."
"these blokes are prepaired to cut each others throats."
And what is the jpc defence plan should another group of pilots offer to do their flying for less?
PS. recruitment is a world wide phenomenon:ugh:

[esreverlluf]

"Lets hope the rumours are true that JI cant handle the explosive expansion that the 787 may provide."
Halelujah!
Let's also hope they get audited sooner or later.
Mr J may be able to veto their internal Qantas Group flight deck audit, but if they wish to continue to codeshare internationally, then they are going to have to let the IOSA auditors onboard at some stage - and the sooner the better!
:D

[esreverlluf]

"Lets hope the rumours are true that JI cant handle the explosive expansion that the 787 may provide."

Halelujah!

Let's also hope they get audited sooner or later.

Mr J may be able to veto their internal Qantas Group flight deck audit, but if wish to continue to codeshare internationally, then they are going to have to let the IOSA auditors onboard at some stage - and the sooner the better!

:D

[Chimbu chuckles]

Mate of mine working at a ME corporate job flying a G4 as an FO is earning AUD155K NET working 35 days on 31 days off.

When he gets his command it will be closer to AUD190k NET same rotation.

That after a payrise that takes pay back to where it was 6 yrs ago before the exchange rates did a number on ALL expats...those payrises are happening, slowly but surely, at other expat employer airlines.

So pick a lifestyle...QF pay and 5.7 mths off a year to do with as you will...or QF/VB/J*.:ugh:

Sure there are not enough of those kinds of jobs around for everyone...but there are precisely NONE of those jobs in Australia.

[International Trader]

Gliderboy,

I can't comment on how you interpret things.
To clarify my so called contradiction:

Captains are the ones that are wanted and the ones who will do better financially( don't believe that they will be rolling in it) . F/O will probably be used overseas ( in terms of wasted career time and money).

I suggest that the captains will not take the opportunity to move overseas. This may be because they won't want to upset their own little apple cart,but, perhaps because of a lack of worldliness or a lack of selflessness.
They won't have to make a move until the Sh1t hits the fan because of the protection afforded by seniority.
You are the one who said they are greedy but, you probably have more to do with Qantas captains than I do.

[gliderboy]

IT,
What you said was (re QF Captains):
"Most likely though,they will stay to the end, suck the tit dry and feed off the carcass before moving off to greener patures ,leaving the skin and bones to you. Probably also expecting the red carpet!"
I paraphrased that to mean that you inferred QF Captains were greedy. Sorry if that is not what you meant. I do know a lot of QF Captains and most are great guys (sort of like any airline eh?).
FO's need to make the move sooner rather than later if they do wanna move overseas. That's the point I really want to make. To quote the great movie, The Shawshank Redemption: "Get busy living or get busy dying."
Either do it now or put up with what you have.
Gliderboy
ps Keg et al, I realise what you are saying re command time, but what aircraft will you get your command on? Will you have to pay for the endorsement? Will you be getting a paycut for the privelege? These are important questions.

[Gnadenburg]

Don't forget Chimbu, the warm and fuzzy feeling a father gets in Abu Dhabi, when a local Arab boy turns up in a Ferrari, to take out your 13 year old daughter! :uhoh:

On the strong AUD. One big advantage of being an expatriate is the financial structures available- tax free profits on the Oz sharemarket etc.

This advantage varies depending on how savvy one is. Enough to offset the dollar's strength? Enough to compensate the 'price' of the Australian lifestyle?