Well Well Well, Corrupt Qantas?

[Sunfish]

Who would have thought Qantas could possibly stoop so low?........except me.

A $200 million cartel class action will be served on Qantas and six other large international airlines today.

The case is being brought by leading law firm Maurice Blackburn Cashman and arises from an alleged global price fixing cartel in the international freight industry which is said to have started in 2000 until now.


http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/qantas-to-face-200m-claim/2007/02/01/1169919438433.html

The airlines named in the action also include Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Air New Zealand, JAL and British Airways.

The case involves various surcharges the airlines imposed over that time.

Ms Parker said if the case was successful, all Australian businesses would benefit from future reductions in air freight costs.

Prosecutions and class actions have already been launched in the United States and Canada over the same alleged cartel.

In the US action, a settlement was reached with one of the airlines, Lufthansa, for $85 million compensation for purchasers of air freight services.
The remaining claim against the other airlines in the US is estimated to be worth $1 billion.

Just another example of how Qantas is a millstone around the neck of the Australian economy....open the skies.

[lowerlobe]

From Gilligan...."The airlines named in the action also include Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Air New Zealand, JAL and British Airways."

However as usual Gilligan singles out QF when even his beloved SIA is named!

Gilligan never let the truth get in the way of a good story epecially when it suits you!

[Sunfish]

Lowerlobe

What you are trying to suggest is called "diffusion of responsibility" as in: "Hey it wasn't just me". Try that next time you get a speeding fine.

They are flag carriers, they monopolise capacity. In free markets it is not possible to get away with this sort of behaviour.

[Animalclub]

Isn't this the reason for IATA losing it's fangs... price fixing.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Point taken Mr. Sunfish, Qantas are allegedly engaging in corrupt practices, as are the rest of the national carriers throughout the world. How would removing the Qantas protection help them and us when the equally protected SIA, JAL, etc would just come on in and reap that reward. Are you suggesting we tell other nations to remove their protection as well? If so how? Oh and lets not argue if it's right or wrong, it's just the way it is.
Thanks

[BHMvictim]

removing protection wouldn't help anything with regards to price fixing... but it would satisfy sunfishes psychotic hatered of Qantas.

[lowerlobe]

Gilligan,

I am not condoning the actions of QF for one moment however I am pointing out your usual and to be honest sick fetish with QF.

As a number of others have pointed out if we remove protection for QF then do you think for one of your naive seconds that SIA and the others will behave without any self interest?

Do you want to sacrifice Australian business's to create this mythical level playing field that only naive book readers believe would be beneficial and more importantly achievable.

This is, as I have shown before all about your twisted jealousy of QF and your even more naive,bitter and totally delusional economic theory which you have formulated to have revenge on QF for Ansett going down the gurgler.Sunfish ,you need professional help.

[Sunfish]

Actually freeing up markets makes it difficult for cartels to hide their activiities because there are always "outsiders" who willl have a different (and lower) pricing structure. Cartels can only exist where there are a few players - like Amcor and Visyboard who got caught manipulating cardboard box prices last year.

"psychotic hatred of Qantas?" Puhleeeease! Give me a break!

What I want to see is for Qantas to stop strangling economic growth in states other than New South Wales.

Open the skies and get more direct flights into places other than Sydney and you can sit in your little hole and play your perverted games to your hearts content.

[019360]

Sunfish is only echoing points of view held by many.

But if you want to, let's keep looking after Qantas. Let them have their priviledged position at KSA and let them have grandfather rights to every route and the current schedules from those routes. and for everyone else: lets have open skies to every other port in Australia.... face it others would only enter those markets if qantas were underserving them so its a win-win.....and then, build the long awaited second Sydney airport, even just a single 13,000 ft strip within an hour (freeway or rail) of central Sydney and open that up to all others. Do not force Qantas to go there, indeed don't let them. Again, if Qantas is serving Sydney so well then there's nothing to worry about because the second airport would only be used by a few also-rans and maybe cargo.

Then we could finally get this monkey of protectionism off our backs and let competition do its job. For me, merely one of the 13,000 Ppruners with an MBA so it seems, I'd just love to finally understand how Qantas can be the only major carrier in the world to rely on the dinosaur 747-400 to make money. What is it about QF management that they alone can turn profits from the gas guzzler and hence haven't needed the 777?

[judge.oversteer]

Q: Why Doesn't QANTAS have a "W" in it?
A: 'cause they're all W#NKERS!
Heh,Heh.
JO
Sorry,couldn't help myself.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Hmmmm lets dissect this one....

Question. Why doesn't Qantas have a W in it?

Answer. Because they are all W@nkers??!!?!!??????

Hmmmmmm. This is your idea of a "joke"?

If you are going to attempt humour, maybe you should steer clear of chinese manufactured christmas crackers?

[judge.oversteer]

Lighten up baby.
Think about bkk several years ago.
A profesional disaster from the worlds safest?
JO

[Ultralights]

just an observation while booking a trip to Hawaii this week,

fares from Syd to HNL, average around the $1700 Cattle class,
yet fares to London are around the same price...:mad:

last time i looked, HNL was about 1/3 the distance to London.


the cheapest fare i could get to HNL was with Hawaiian air. and only less than $100 cheaper than QF.:ugh:

if the only choice was J*, i would buy a kayak.:=

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

What's BKK got to do with one of the unfunniest non-jokes ever attempted on PPRUNE?

[slamer.]

Air NZ 'surprised' at being named in $229m class action

9:55AM Friday February 02, 2007


http://media.apn.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/ACFVFAI1ay9i.jpg

Air New Zealand says it is surprised at being named in a A$200 million ($229 million) class action announced in Australia yesterday based on accusations of price-fixing in the air cargo market.
Law firm Maurice Blackburn Cashman filed the action in the Federal Court against Air New Zealand, Qantas, Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, JAL and British Airways.
It alleges the airlines formed a cartel to fix fuel, security and war-risk surcharges against Australian freight users, who were fleeced an estimated A$200 million over seven years.
Principal Kim Parker said a win could pave the way for a lawsuit on behalf of passengers, who were also subject to fuel surcharges.
"It's quite possible we will do that but we're presently focused on the issues in this class action," she said.
However, Air New Zealand has come out fighting, saying the action appeared to be "yet another attempt" by an opportunistic law firm to target large, high profile corporates.

"This action has all the hallmarks of similar class actions that Air New Zealand has been subject to in the past, including in the USA," said Air NZ general counsel John Blair.
The company had now received the papers and would examine the issues, he said.
"In responding to requests for information from various regulators, we have yet to see anything which causes us to conclude that Air New Zealand has breached applicable competition laws."
Ms Parker said the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) was investigating the alleged cartel, which could result in a "two-pronged attack" against the airlines.
The consumer watchdog has refused to comment.
The Australian class action follows similar lawsuits in the US and Canada.
Ms Parker said losses in the Australian international freight market were estimated at A$200,000.
That figure hinged on an assessment of the surcharges levied against what lawyers would argue should have been charged in a competitive market.
It is possible the surcharges should not have been charged at all.
The airlines claim rising oil prices, post September 11 security measures and increased insurance costs led to the surcharges.
Ms Parker said if the case was successful, all Australian businesses would benefit from future reductions in air freight costs.
The case is not expected to go to trial for up to three years.


PS:Ummm... oversteer, what does BKK have to do with this thread ???

[judge.oversteer]

I'll meet you down at Kingsleys next week and try and explain.
Varoom
JO

[Redstone]

And I assume Sunfish that if a favorable finding is returned for Qantas you will post an apology/retraction? Or would you attack the judiciary for being corrupt and Sydneycentric?

[Buster Hyman]

I'm as light as a feather & I didn't get it!

[1DC]

The rest of the world has know about this for months, so how come you knowledgeable Qantas experts have only just found out about it?

[Sunfish]

Redstone, while I am revelling in schadenfreude* at present, I must agree with you that these are as yet unproven allegations against Qantas and that they are entitled to their day in court/, presumption of innocence, etc. etc.



* Schednefreude = an untranslatable German word meaning something like "guilty pleasure", or as Lord Annan said "The feelings a poor man who has no car experiences when he sees two brand new Mercedes crash together right in front of him."

[lowerlobe]

Gilligan your at it again and I thought you would have learnt your lesson last time.

If you are going to micturate please do it elsewhere.

There is nothing untranslatable about the German word and it would help if you could write the same word twice without altering the spelling of one of them.

You will notice that Gilligan states that these allegations against QF are unproven. He does not mention all the other airlines involved but as usual chooses to mention the one airline he has a pathological hatred of despite his denials.

“Schadenfreude” literally means deriving pleasure from another person’s misfortune.

That definition or German translation sums up the state of your mind and the fact that you need help.

[judge.oversteer]

OK, my unreserved apologies for my comments of last week.

However, I still think that there is a high degree of arrogance and conceit in QF's operational attitude, not to mention their respect of employees.

I guess this will incur the wrath of everyone again...

AND, I still cant help thinking of BKK!

[Sunfish]

Thread Creep Alert.

“Schadenfreude” literally means deriving pleasure from another person’s misfortune.

Actually Lowerlobe, if you had German relatives you would know that the precise meaning is not translateable into English, Noel Annan's ( a friend of the family) quote is as close as it comes to what it means in German.

Alternatively:
Etymology: German schaden "to hurt" + Freude "joy." "Schaden" comes from Old High German "skado," which also devolved into English scathe "harm, hurt" via Old Norse "skaða." "Freude" comes from Old High German "frewida," akin to the same fro "happy" found in contemporary German fröhlich "happy." Greek is one of the few other Indo-European languages with a native word expressing this unsavory emotional reaction: epichairekakia from epi- "on, over" + chair- "enjoy" + kakia "hurt, vice." The Dutch equivalent is "leedvermaak" from leed "pain, sorrow" + vermaak "enjoyment" and in Swedish it is "skadeglädje."

[lowerlobe]

A couple of things Gilligan..

1: My Fathers side of our family is German and it is an indication of your mind that you believe that is not possible for anyone apart from yourself to understand a foreign language .

2: The quote you mention is mine ie “Schadenfreude” literally means deriving pleasure from another person’s misfortune”

The example of Schadenfreude by Annan “The feelings a poor man who has no car experiences when he sees two brand new Mercedes crash together right in front of him."……Is an accurate one in that it describes a pathetic individuals jealousy of others simply because they have something he does not and his pleasure derived from watching those people involved in an accident.

A rather perfect analogy of your pathological jealousy of Qantas because of the downfall of Ansett I would think.

This is hardly what I would describe as untranslatable but as any translation is concerned a matter of interpretation. A certain Sheik would love to tell us all about misinterpretations of his speeches in the Middle East.

However, the word does show your state of mind in relation to Qantas which was confirmed by your very post .

[Sunfish]

I admitted as much in my post. What's your point? If the allegations about Qantas are proved correct, what would that say about Qantas's corporate governance and behaviour?

[lowerlobe]

Sunfish......"quod erat demonstrandum"

[judge.oversteer]

Aw shucks, Munt, dont make me cry.
JO

[Eastwest Loco]

Hit me with dates/board and off points ultralights.

The GDS is sometimes mightier than the web.

Worth a look at least.

Best regards

EWL

With regard to the rat and others being in the dookie over charges/fees/surcharges - HELLO????? Who hasn't been paying attention then??

For years before the advent of the fuel surcharge bonanza QF and DJ plus many other overseas carriers have been retaining alleged Government taxes/levies on unearned and unflown revenue. Try getting it back if you do not fly and forfeit the fare.

Meantime the ACCC just sits on their hands and whistle. I think we all know how much the top boys pay for their holiday travel.

EWL