META 2 questions.

[160knots]

I’m in Sydney and I’m looking for a school to do my META. I would prefer to do it with a school that has a large charter operation and am willing to travel interstate. Looking for reccommendations.

Secondly would I be better off doing it on a Duchess, Seminole, Baron or PA31.

Regards. 160.

[Troopie]

160 - I'm assuming you mean multi-training approval??? (META??) Not initial twin - which is what I made of FTDC's post..?

Remembering you need about 50 twin command, and then 10 PIC ontype to excercise the privellages of a META - I'd say Duchies/Barons seem to be pretty common at the schools.

If you've got yer grade 1/2, plus the required time (as mentioned above) - perhaps try one of the larger colleges (I undertand FTA have a heap of brand spanking new twins on the way).....................

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

... Remembering you need about 50 twin command, and then 10 PIC ontype to excercise the privellages of a META ....

Tell me you a kidding! You are kidding, aren't you?

With 50 hrs twin command you can seek approval to train others? That is crazy!

I would not put myself in a position where someone with so little twin experience pulled a donk on me at low level!

I have only done twin training, endorsements and MECIR renewals with 5 intructors. The minimum twin command time of those people would be 5000+ hrs.

I have lost a few friend over the years in twin training accidents.

FTDC:cool:

[bushy]

FTDC
This is what I have been saying for a long time.It appears that trying to achieve decent standards in GA is not considered important, as GA itself is only considered to be something you have to endure in order to get an airline job.

When we start treating GA as a worthwhile and essential part of the country's transport system, we might atart getting things to work much better, and pay better.

The floods of exploiters have all but destroyed it.

[ravan]

...META and/or Instrument training approval while a junior grade 3 instructor????

The old cliche " You don't know what you don't know" springs to mind.:hmm:

[MBA747]

160 knots,
If you use a bit of common sense you will do ok. There were a number of instructors in the past, on obtaining their B Grade, obtained Twin Training Approval. They had no charter experience and not only were they successfull they went on to get airline positions. I also know of at least three very "experienced" instructors who were killed failing engines just after lift off by cutting the mixture and one trying to explore the Vmca limits.
Frankly if you have 5000 hours and still sitting in GA, well then one has to promote the experience bit, but it has been proven many times over the years that with knowledge gained from knowing the theory and not by experimentation, you can safely do a good job.
If after 3000 hours there is still no likely hood of an airline slot in Aust. go overseas.
Best of luck.

[OpsNormal]

...META and/or Instrument training approval while a junior grade 3 instructor????
The old cliche " You don't know what you don't know" springs to mind.:hmm:

I've seen Junior Grade 3 instructors with 1500hrs multi charter (let alone the single time) behind them before beginning to use their instructor rating. Makes your post look a bit stupid don't you think ravan? Twit.

It is interesting FTDC that you actually chose to read the original post after making your original reply about pa31's etc etc. Why don't you tell CASA, after all it has been that way for many many many years now.

Bushy wrote: ...It appears that trying to achieve decent standards in GA is not considered important, as GA itself is only considered to be something you have to endure in order to get an airline job....

Make generalisations about the standards of your own organisation Bushy, rather than about everyone elses if you don't mind. Oh sorry, did you sell yours.....? You need to be a little more specific in acrediting blame, try the sausange factory CFI's as the ones being responsible for the product of today rather than the GA organisations and the instructors doing their best to raise the standards and training of their staff.

What other training/GPS courses and training/further study/endorsements did you used to run in house or provide for your staff at your cost in the 5 years before you got out Bushy? Or is OK to stand from the sidelines and throw stones like you are now? := :=

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

I'm a Junior Grade Three with META, Instrument Training.

Although the other several thousands of hours, 2,500+ multi, ATO might make it a different equation right ?.

Be carefull stateing that being a junior grade three and having multi training is a recipe for disaster.

There are many pilots that are in my position, i did my instructor rating with 2,000 tt, 700 mecomm, all charter.

With the possible introduction of part 169, a Chief Pilot will be required to have an Instructor Rating, i thought it would be a good idea to waste some more money, i'm glad that i did.

I'd rather be a Charter pilot with a junior grade three and META, than a Grade one instructor with META living with mum and dad in YSBK, opens far more doors.

Further to your point that you only need 50 hours twin, you still need to get through some crusty ole ATO to be approved, usually a 5 hours syllabus with a load of board work etc etc, if you are still not up to standard, you do not get the approval.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

.. It is interesting FTDC that you actually chose to read the original post after making your original reply about pa31's etc etc. Why don't you tell CASA, after all it has been that way for many many many years now.


What's that? Talk to CASA about a safety issue in GA - you're kidding right? Tell me you are kidding!

FTDC:cool:

[OpsNormal]

What's that? Talk to CASA about a safety issue in GA - you're kidding right? Tell me you are kidding!

FTDC:cool:

Why don't you take it up with one of the new Field Safety Advisors (yes, there is one near you in CNS). He and I spent an interesting couple of hours in conversation only just recently in my office here.

You might be pleasantly surprised, and they are very approachable. Try it before canning it.:=

I cannot find their link at the moment, it may not be up and running yet.

[Troopie]

CaptainToBe: I am aware that you don't need grade 1/2 for the META - I was just suggesting if he/she had grade 1/2 + the required hours and then applied to work with a larger school - then the META rating may find itself in to his/her log book for free :D

An yep, FTDC you're right, 50 twin command for META is probably not enough!

[JimmyReeves]

160KTS

PA31 and Seminole would be handy if you are looking at China Southern. Baron's for Singapore Flying College. FTA in Adelaide are getting Twin Diamonds but currrently use Duchess. A META on any of these aircraft would be handy.

Cheers.

[strim]

Many of the above arguements are also true for the present regime for Flying Instructors, a bare CPL plus a 50 odd hours course, then they are out teaching others how to fly.

That seems a little strange, does a pilot with 200 tt actually know how to fly themselves ?, not wonder the standard of the bare CPL is so low, you can not learn something from a teacher than does not know it themselves.


How can you say instructors don't know what they're teaching? Even a fresh JG3 has just completed countless hours in theory and briefings and learning how to teach, in addition to the 50 flying hours learning how to fly accurately and describing/explaining every move - surely that qualifies them to teach EoC, climbing, turning etc as well as someone with thousands of hours. These instructors have to start somewhere.

An instructors job is to best prepare a CPL student for a career in aviation - that means leading by example, encouraging self learning and insisting on a high level of airmanship and professionalism.

The knowledge you are referring to will be gained in the years after their training is complete - hours and hours of command time in a commercial environment, which i agree, is invaluable knowledge.

Instructors have additional knoweldge: they know how to pass it on. I think one should judge an instructors' ability on their skills as a teacher and a role model, rather than the hours in their logbook.

[esreverlluf]

Hey 160kts - don't let all the nay-sayers put you off.

I got my META as a junior grade 3 with little more than 50hours twin time and never looked back.

Given the right attitude and training you shouldn't have any problems.

Whilst experience is nice to have, it doesn't mean everything, or even the same thing to different people. I've seen monumental dills with 100 hours and monumental dills with 10 000 hours.

I'd go for the Duchess if I were you.

[das Uber Soldat]

Many of the above arguements are also true for the present regime for Flying Instructors, a bare CPL plus a 50 odd hours course, then they are out teaching others how to fly.

That seems a little strange, does a pilot with 200 tt actually know how to fly themselves ?, not wonder the standard of the bare CPL is so low, you can not learn something from a teacher than does not know it themselves.

then how the hell are you supposed to get started? Not that i'm in this position but this attitude frustrates me to hell.

What is your answer for the career path for the bare CPL? Try going charter with 150 hours TT and see how you go.

There is no reason that a low tt jnr gr 3 cannot adequately teach ab initio. EOC, S&L, C&D circuits etc. Thats where they build their time and learn to fly, learn to teach. Its not until they have 600-700 hours generally do they move on to teaching nav regularly and more advanced sequences.

[JimmyReeves]

160KTS,

A META on any of those aircraft will serve you well. Try Johnson Aviation in Port Macquarie, NSW. They do training and charter on Barons and Chieftains and their rates are very competitive.