Vietnam Airlines, Ho Chi Min.

[doggydog]

:cool: Hello everyone, and happy Australia Day. Could anyone here care to let us know what its like working for Vietnam Airlines and what living in Ho Chi Min city(Saigon) is like regarding people, cost of living(rent), food, lifestyle etc Any info is sincerely appreciated
The dog... :E

[alatnariver]

I used to fly for Vietnam Airlines, a couple of years back, not that long.
Living in SGN is very interesting and can be a lot of fun. Nice places to hang around, good food - well if you like asian food, if not, well... :yuk: - nice people in general and if you are from Oz, not too far away from home. Not to mention the girls :ok: !
There are a lot of expat pilots flying for Vietnam Airlines and there are much more other expats working and living in SGN. So you can expect a more or less vibrant expat live.
The cost of living used to be rather cheap, but renting is more on the expensive side if you are looking for somthing western style. The realestate agents and landlords are in the know that expats have "some" money to spent for their accomodation. But in general the normal housing allowance for a pilot should be enough to cover the costs of accomodation in SGN, well at least it used to be two years ago. Finding the right place might take some time.
Flying wise well, it's Vietnam Airlines and a lot depends of course which type you are operating. There used to be, and still are, some short comings. In general the working atmosphere, also with the local pilots, was very relaxed and good. Just don't expect any well organzied western style top-notch airline! They are trying, but they can't buy everything, even if they wish they could. Regarding the local pilots, some are very good and some not. The bandwidth is just much biger than in any "normal" run western style airline.
It's not career if you are looking for something like this and it will stay a contract job nothing more nothing less.
So if you are "in between jobs" have a closer look at it, if you are leaving a stable outfit for whatsoever reason, just don't do it, as it is a contract job and nothing for a career. Don't belive the upgrade stories, as you never know!
I spent one year there and looking back I describe it as an interesting time, when I am asked about it. After a while I got fed up with the airline but the rest was realy worth it :D!

[Dream Land]

I agree with most of the previous post, they have just recently upgraded five Airbus F/O's that paid for their own training. If you've done contract work before, it will be no problem for you, commuting to Australia very easy, schooling for children very expensive.

Traffic and air quality is bad, housing is OK as previously mentioned.

[Fly A380]

Hey,

Thanks for the info. I was looking into possibly working for VAC as well.

I just wanted to know, how did you get to work everyday? I have the VAC brief that they send you, but I realized that they did not mention any method of transport to work within it. Do they have some sort of bus system? Or did you take some sort of taxi on a daily basis of your own accord?

Did you recommend getting a car there or as an expat; or is it simply to strange and overwhelming to drive in Vietnam?

How about if you live in a country which VAC does not fly to? Are you expected to get your own tickets to fly there? Or will VAC provide you with some sort of setup for your 2 weeks OFF that they guarantee after 6 weeks of work?

Thanks again alatnariver.

[olepilot]

1. buy a motorbike or take a taxi
2. can drive but most buy a bike
3. u get a tkt on vac network and ev. cnx u fix yourself

[Dream Land]

some sort of setup for your 2 weeks OFF that they guarantee after 6 weeks of work?
Not quite sure what you mean by setup, the contract is very straight forward, six weeks on, two weeks off, no travel days because you may have a long commute, your first day of work may be a 6AM departure, if you need recovery time, come back early, anyway there are probably quite a few people that live outside the VAC network, they must pay their own way. They are very flexible with the days off, for instance you could take only one week off and stay around, then on the next rotation get three weeks off.
Cars are useless here due to too the heavy traffic and lack of parking, a small motorbike does fine.

[alatnariver]

I agree with what was said before!

In the good ol' days when the Airbus rostering was done by Mr. Dat, by the way the most effective rostering person I met in my career so far :D , we had travel days planned, even if those days were not part of our contracts. At least they are still flexible in respect to split, float or what ever you'd like to be done with you rotation days.

Regarding transport I used taxis most of the time. Was cheap, airconditioned and a bit safer than a bike. Main reason was that I am scared of riding a bike, so I never could have stayed longer in SGN, as you need to be bikeable. :rolleyes:

[Check 'Six']

HI everyone.

As a TRI on the A330, the salary advertised is 14000 US. I would be coming alone and the family back home in Europe. The cost of a hotel (Four or Five Star) compared to an apartment?

Eating out and entertainment whilst there, equates to what cost my friends?

Basically a normal life of eating out, having a few beers going to the gym or lying at the pool on a day off. What sort of money am I pocketing at the end of the month?

Loss of license? How much?

Any idea how long the average contracts are? How long have the veterans been there?

ID 90 on other airlines possible? (IATA)

Thanks for any of the above info being passed on.

Check Six

[kontur]

Hi. Check `Six`!
Some answers to your questions
Basically a normal life of eating out, having a few beers going to the gym or lying at the pool on a day off. What sort of money am I pocketing at the end of the month? -Live is cheap,so you can pocket some money.
Loss of license? How much? -NO(However it depends on the recruting agency)
Any idea how long the average contracts are? How long have the veterans been there? - I knew one pilot who had spent there about 14 years.Now he decided to move to another airline
ID 90 on other airlines possible? (IATA)- NO!
BRGDS

[Check 'Six']

Thanks Kontur. Nice working environment? Friendly?

Average hours on 330 per month?

Overtime?

[kontur]

HI!
The working environment is very friendly,staff is very polite and nice. The only problem is a lot of mess in the roster I mean a lot of changes and no one can plan his free time in advance.
I don`t know current situation in the 330 fleet,but TRE(TRI) are very busy at this particular moment. But I do hope you will have not more then 65 hours.Many flights are domestic and there are some mid range(5 hrs)sectors(Koria,Japan)
BRGDS

[sam34]

Hello everybody!
Does anyone know about the recruitment of pilots for Vietnam airlines please?

I know VNA recruit a lot of cadet pilots but there are different nationalities in the company too...
And my father is vietnamese but I do not have the vietnamese nationality because I am borned in France, so I am french of course.
I am going to call VNA as soon as I can, it is not easy because of the differents hours between France/Vietnam...

I am still a student pilot I passed the theory of ATPL and I am doing hours building in the south of France. Then I am going to do the CPL/IR in a few months.

Thank You very much for your help!

Sam34
:ok:

[Dream Land]

VietNam Airlines, NEEDS a lot of cadets, actual recruitment is approved by the government, well below what is needed.
As a French citizen, I believe as soon as you have 1500 hours in the B777, A330, A321/320 or ATR72 will be a viable candidate. :}

[Arty Craft]

Hi, guys,
I need the contact details for HR at Vietnam Airlines. Unfortunately their website is down for maintenance for the next few months. Thanks.

[Dream Land]

HR Vietnam Airlines = http://www.rishworthaviation.com/ and http://www.parcaviation.aero/
Foreigners are on contract basis only.

[Arty Craft]

Thanks for the info, Dream Land.

[sam34]

Arrf no i do not have 1500 hours on B777 etc... :(
thanks Dream Land

[Plutos]

Hi, Alatnariver
I was reading your interesting mail about living and working with Vietnam Airline.
It seems a good and young airline with all the positive and negative points of a fast growing airline.
As I may consider to move there with my family (2 kids) I wonder if there are any French schools for expat in SGN.
I am Italian but I lived 15 Years in France and although we are living in Italy my children are attending a french school.
There is another question before I make up my mind.
Is there any possibility to upgrade from the A320 to A330?Or I will fly for the next 10 years on the same plane.
I see the salary in VA is at least 1000$ less then here, so my change must be very mindful.
tks

[alatnariver]

Hi Plutos,

my advise if you are on a fixed contract be vary carefull to give it up. This is my personal and general advise, I would never change a firm contract for a contract job.

I am not sure if there are frensh schools in SGN but I think so.

Keep in mind that schooling seems to be very expensive and there is no education allowance offered with any of the contracts. So you will have to spent a lot of money and if you take home less than in your current job, I don't know if this is a good idea.

You should make sure that your family will like SGN and Vietnam. It's different to live in a country compared to go there on a trip.

Regarding a type upgrade, well they did it but you should better not count on it!

[Ready]

For months and months now they have been, through agencies as usual, looking for A330 TREs/TRIs only. How about line captains any time soon?

[Lost in Saigon]

Education costs for expats living in Vietnam is approx $1,000 USD per month per child.

I don't think there will be many Captain contracts advertised on the 330 as many of the existing VN 320 Captains are looking forward to those positions.

[Lost in Saigon]

Contract periods can be as short as 18 months.

The A330 may only be a temporary aircraft at Vietnam Airlines. If they decide to get rid of them, you will be without a contract and without a job. There is usually a clause in the contract that allows them to terminate your contract if there is no aircraft to fly.

[Ready]

L.I.S.,
Noted with thanks!

[airuli]

Please everybody be very careful when you consider to work for Vietnam Airlines. I worked there for almost 3 years and left, because the maintenance standqard of the fleet is so bad, that I could not justify to work there anymore. On average everyday 80% of the fleet has maintenance issues. Nothing is repaired. Consequently they had several Engine Failures, Hydraulic failures, Total Electric Failure,3 ( Three ) Decompressions, all within the last year. Manuals are a mess, if you refuse to fly, Vietnamese Crew will operate.
Very dangerous Situation

[bob_bowne]

Maintenance is as good as anywhere these days. :hmm:

[kontur]

Dream Land!
Do not exaggerate a situation, it`s fairly stable. There are a lot of Aussie guys and former eastern block pilots who will stay there as long as they found another good place in the sun. I suppose the biggest problem is the huge difference in payment scale for locals and expats. This stirs up envy among local pilots. Put yourself in their place. Would you like guys who occupied positions you wish to take?And many of them have tolerance not to express their feelings to you. This is reality and you have to get on with it.:=
Safe landings!

[Dream Land]

With do respect, we have a different view of the situation, could this be because we are on a different fleets, do you operate in conditions where you are not allowed to make an entry in the technical log, based on specific destinations, are you asked to operate against flight and duty regulations outlined in the FOM, is there an environment to promote safety at this airline or to lie and mislead to avoid the famous trial (or circus) by peers.
We can try to promote improvements or sit back on or laurels and say it's fine.

[GooneyCaptain]

sam34:

And my father is vietnamese but I do not have the vietnamese nationality because I am borned in France, so I am french of course.


sam34, if I were you, I would seek the Vietnamese citizenship as a dual citizen with your father being Vietnamese. You should be able to do that. Then apply as a local. With some experience and foreign education they will be glad to have you....

[Dream Land]

sam34, if I were you, I would seek the Vietnamese citizenship as a dual citizen with your father being Vietnamese. You should be able to do that. Then apply as a local. With some experience and foreign education they will be glad to have you.... Although I am sure your intentions are good, being hired as a local means your pay is somewhere around $1000.00 USD a month, my advice is to gain experience necessary to meet expat qualifications, use your fathers influence to be hired as a contractor and make seven times the amount of a local. :E

[Lost in Saigon]

I think they make more than $1000 per month. In any case, they are making a very good wage compared to other VN citizens. Their job also affords them much respect and the opportunity to see the world. Most also do a little "Import/Export" on the side.

I was there from 2003 until 2006, and never saw any evidence of jealousy from the VN pilots. They were always very friendly with us and made us feel welcome. Their careers are not being slowed down by Expats at all. We only fill the gap because they can not train their own people fast enough. I met 35year old VN 777 Captains.

[Dream Land]

The math is actually pretty easy, be a local FO for $1000.00 a month or be an expat for $7000.00 a month with a 6 on and 2 off schedule. :cool:

[Lost in Saigon]

$1000/mo. for FO on which fleet?

[Dream Land]

An FO that flys 80 Hours a month on the A320 fleet makes 15,000,000.00 VND.

[Lost in Saigon]

In addition to their salary, Vietnamese Nationals also get perdiems. Japan layovers were particularly lucrative. It is also curious that Expats do not get perdiems on layovers.

While I was on the 767 fleet, Japan layovers were assigned to the VN pilots first and the Expats got the leftovers. They would use the perdiems as a salary supplement and always ate and drank in the hotel "Crew Room". The flight attendants would go shopping for food, cook a nice meal and provide "liberated" beer and wine.

They were generally willing to share with the Expats and I did join them a few times.

[fullforward]

Any chance VN recruit B777 DECs in the near future?

[Dream Land]

Keep in touch with Parc Aviation, not too sure about that fleet.

[Dream Land]

It is also curious that Expats do not get perdiems on layovers.
LIS, on the A320 fleet, CA's and FO's receive $2000.00USD per month for housing and per diem.

[Lost in Saigon]

LIS, on the A320 fleet, CA's and FO's receive $2000.00USD per month for housing and per diem.

Yes, I know. All contract pilots have it built into their total renumeration. Some contracts break it down differently and all that really matters is how much is deposited in your bank account on payday.

Most airlines pay you an hourly perdiem while on duty or a perdiem based on average meal costs in the layover city.

At Vietnam Airlines, you receive the same pay every day regardless whether you are on a 2 day layover in Tokyo, drinking beer in Saigon on a day off, or home with the family on your 2 weeks off.

That's why I really wouldn't call it a perdiem in the strictest sense of the word.

[newage]

I am thinking of going to vac to work as a A320 F/O. Could someone send me a monthly schedule typical, to get an idea.
[email protected]
Thanks in advance.

[Spike 09]

Hey. Looking for advice. Have a good job on A320, company offering leave without pay, am looking at Vietnam for something different for a couple of years, one wife, no kids. Would you guys at VAC recommend it?

[skytrek21]

Has anyone heard of the upcoming sim dates for assessments. Once the contracting agency sends your info to the airline, how long is it approximately to hear from them. Any info would be great.

[varigflier]

You guys might want to try to post on the other thread. You might get more responses.