A US Airways question

[PAXboy]

I wonder if any US based (or those very familiar with ops there) might be able to answer two small questions.
On Wednesday 24th January, a friend of mine travelled:
BWI ~ PHL ~ YYZ on USAirways, with an hour stop over in PHL.

During the stop over, her flight was not called on the PA and she missed the connection. Now, that may be bad luck on her part or she might not have been paying attention BUT she is an extremely experienced traveller and listened to numerous flights being called and was confident that she did not miss the announcement. That is not the point of debate:

The flight left without her but WITH her suitcase. Should that have happened?

Incidentally, during the wait for the next rotation to YYZ, she noticed that the announcements were being made with a more forceful tone of voice ... :hmm:

Upon arrival at YYZ, she found her bag waiting in a pile in the hall and approached the member of staff at the desk and identified herself. She pointed to her bag and was told simply to take it. The bag tag was not checked and no inspection of her ID to link her to the bag took place.

1) Do you have regulations in the USA to should ensure that, either, the pax is found or the bag is off-loaded? Is it common for this to happen?

2) Is it regular for bags to be lying around (YYZ) without security and no checks made, so that anyone could have walked off with her bag?

Thanks.

[seacue]

In busy US airports, flights are not called except in the holding area right at the gate. With a departure every couple on minutes, announcing departures to the whole airport would be a continual din and lose its effectiveness. The passenger is required to be present at the gate 20 or so minutes before departure in most cases. The quoted departure time is just a reference, one has to be at the gate well before that. Some airlines often depart a few minutes early from my experience.

One also has to find the departure gate, which seems to move more rapidly than the info board can keep up at places like DFW.

I suppose the regulations say they should have removed the bags. They may be less strict since this was a connection. Of course this is US Air you're talking about:(.

Bags that aren't picked off the carossel are typically stacked near it and eventually put in the airline's own lost luggage office in most airports. Only a very few airports in high-crime cities seem to check the bag stub on the boarding envelope vs. bags as one leaves the baggage area. It hasn't happened to me in a long time.

[obgraham]

Pax, there is no logic to security procedures in North America. So what you reported is not surprising in the least. For your question #1, that would require procedures that actually work. As to #2, once they ship your bag, they couldn't care less who swipes it. I've never EVER had to show ID on picking up baggage.

[PAXboy]

seacueThe passenger is required to be present at the gate 20 or so minutes before departure in most cases. So she found out when she arrived at the gate and found it closed. She had been told to be there 10 minutes before time ... As an experienced global traveller she found it very irritating.
I suppose the regulations say they should have removed the bags. They may be less strict since this was a connection.This is where they should be the most strict, because that is how Lockerbie (PA103) happened. Someone booked the case through (from FRA, I think) and stepped off at the connection ...
I certainly take the point of both psoters that, once the bag is in the destination hall NO ONE wants to know. Certainly that is how it is in the UK and we had the same problem reported abbout LHR just the other week.

Thanks, I thought that the procedures at the connection point were not implemented and that is what happened.

[SXB]

Security procedures in North America are sometimes worrying, especially in examples like this when, it appears, that such a basic rule is not followed.

That said, and it does not excuse the carrying of a bag without the passenger, it also illustrates the problems facing airport security. Actually getting to your gate and boarding your flight on time is a fairly basic task. Someone who turns up at the gate 10 mins before departure, after sitting in the lounge waiting for an boarding announcement, can hardly be described as an "experienced global traveller"

[PAXboy]

SXBSomeone who turns up at the gate 10 mins before departure, after sitting in the lounge waiting for an boarding announcement, can hardly be described as an "experienced global traveller"That is because:

She attended at the connecting departure gate.
She was TOLD by the GATE AGENT to be back there 10 minutes before time.
She listened out for announcements but heard none for her flight.
She was at the correct gate 10 minutes before departure time and the gate had been closed.
I will not bore you with the other details of conversation between the pax and the gate staff both before the scheduled time and after as that would be a waste of your time but they confirm that she was given incorrect information.

What I was trying to establish was that: Are there regulations about USA a/c departing with a bag but without the pax? The answer is Yes and so it appears to be business as normal (i.e. pre- 9/11).

[PaperTiger]

This is where they should be the most strict, because that is how Lockerbie (PA103) happened. Someone booked the case through (from FRA, I think) and stepped off at the connection ...No. There are two (possibly three) scenarios as to how the bomb got on PA103, but they don't involve a passenger absconding at LHR.

The "official" version is the bag was loaded in Malta (KM180) tagged as unaccompanied through to JFK. In such a case it ought to have been x-rayed at FRA, but inexplicably wasn't.

The second umm... alternative theory is that one passenger - Khalid Safaar - was duped into carrying it aboard; and the third (even more alternative !) is that it was allowed through as part of a long-standing CIA/DEA drugs sting.
...it does not excuse the carrying of a bag without the passenger...We've been through this; it happens all the time. The rule for PPBM is that provided the passenger and bag travel together on the first segment, how it subsequently gets handled is up to the airline.

In this case the bag should have been removed as the pax was a no-show, but she had checked in and had a boarding pass so unless the cabin crew did a headcount - which is NOT routinely done unless there is some kind of seat assignment conflict - nobody at US likely knew there was an unaccompanied bag aboard. I doubt the Capt. was told.

Yes a hole in security, but not one that a terrorist could rely on with any certainty.

[PAXboy]

PaperTiger Thank you for the info on PA103, I did not follow the dozen or more years of the story and your clarification is appreciated.

I can see how the airline might not have registered the missing pax but am surprised that they did not do a headcount as I thought that every carrier did a headcount before every departure. Perhaps that is the ideal.

Thanks again.

[747boy]

PAXBoy,

Just wondering if your friend was checking the departure screens and if so what information was that displaying.

I know you said she is an extremely experienced traveller but is she a frequent user of PHL and US Airways. I'm always more careful with time at airports that I'm not familiar with.

[SXB]

I can see how the airline might not have registered the missing pax but am surprised that they did not do a headcount as I thought that every carrier did a headcount before every departure. Perhaps that is the ideal.

I also thought that every carrier did a headcount before departure. I think a count of some sort is actually done but it isn't always necessary to do it on the aircraft. For example many gates are right next to the aircraft and once a passenger has passed that point it isn't possible to go anywhere except the aircraft so the count is done at the gate rather than onboard. This would be different if once you'd passed the gate you had to take an escalator, four flights of steps and then a ten minute bus ride. In this case I'm sure they do a count on board as well.

In either example they should have noticed that your friend wasn't there, though if it were the latter example the crew may have been reconciling their head count with the number of passengers who'd passed through the gate, which wouldn't have included your friend.

[PAXboy]

Thanks to all posters and to close this thread, which was just trying to understand the regulations, I am confident that she was monitoring any displays visible as she had not been through PHL before. As to the disposition of the gate and it's environs, I shall have more details when she gets back.

In the end, it is a relatively trivial matter and she was carried on the next rotation to YYZ later that day. I asked the question out of curiosity.

[PaperTiger]

I also thought that every carrier did a headcount before departure. I think a count of some sort is actually done but it isn't always necessary to do it on the aircraft.I'm no expert on the regulations so if anyone is, or wants to wade through FAR Part 121 to correct me, have at it ! Each flight must have a weight and balance calculation done by the dispatcher, and the (nominative) passenger count is obviously one of the items. The name of each passenger (infants excepted) must also be recorded on the manifest (121.693(e)). I do not believe there is a Federal regulation specifically requiring a headcount to be done on board.
I have observed cabin crews doing them and also not doing them. I would think they are all supposed to, but ...