National Jet Systems AWA Hazard Alert

[National J Bosses]

All new and prospective NJS Pilots please be advised that the woeful AWA being offered to you is the managements wishlist and has not been in anyway negotiated or approved.

As a suggestion you should appoint a Bargaining Agent as soon as possible and not sign until the best deal possible has been achieved.

If you have received a job offer and would like to know more, please send me a PM.

P.S. Spread the word.

[flyingfox]

NJS management want to be trend setters in leading pilots conditions down to zero. They have no idea of how to make a company successful and appear hell bent on achieving just the opposite. Their practices are 'text book John Howard' and aimed at achieving 'Chinese competitive' costs. (All this when Australia is booming.) Don't you just love free trade agreements, globalization and foreign ownership. Company staff morale is at bedrock bottom. Find another company to work for or try another industry!:ugh:

[Icarus2001]

Do what Qanta do...benchmark rank & file frontline staff against south asian wages but benchmark upper management at New York and London rates...we have to attract the best people for these key positions. Well sorry pal, a pilot, engineer, or any other staff member is also key...attract the best...


Look after your employees and allow your employees to look after your clients. HAH.

Word on the street is that some of those offered NJS FO spots have refused to sign and a couple have actually knocked back the offer completely.

[RENURPP]

I am aware of one who has knocked it back.

I have to admire him, also feel for the others who have been offered jobs with the conditions on offer. What do they do, stay on a Bras on similar pay/conditions or take the opportunity and do a runner as soon as the opportunity arises.

The current feeling within the company is that its future is doubtful.

the "leaders" appear to be fools. Maybe they need to speak to this man, Herbert D. Kelleher ,extremely successful business man, respected CEO by staff and share holders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Kelleher


I do wonder what these people in Adelaide think they are up to. It may work in the short term, BUT long term they will be bums on the street.

[Icarus2001]

The current feeling within the company is that its future is doubtful Hard to see why. A resource sector that is going crazy. Solid contract with Qantas to operate 717 Qlink services. 146 aircraft that will go where others cannot and fully paid for years ago.
How could the future be anything but rosey?

[Going Boeing]

There are a number of business men who are totally opposed to AWA's. When they employ staff whose skills are in short supply (ie high demand) then there are always other businesses poaching by offering better Ts & Cs. The result is that they are paying more for their staff then they would have if an award was thrashed out with a Union. With all companies paying "award rates" there is very little poaching.

Pilots are now in the position where we can reject poor terms & conditions because there is a shortage (even in Oz).

[AerocatS2A]

All new and prospective NJS Pilots please be advised that the woeful AWA being offered to you is the managements wishlist and has not been in anyway negotiated or approved.

As a suggestion you should appoint a Bargaining Agent as soon as possible and not sign until the best deal possible has been achieved.

If you have received a job offer and would like to know more, please send me a PM.

P.S. Spread the word.

Unfortunately, although NJS like to have everyone on the same AWA, it is still an individual contract and a prospective employee is free to negotiate their terms and conditions. Basically if the managements "wishless" is agreed to by the employee and then approved by the industrial relations guys, it stands.

If NJS employees really want the chance to negotiate properly, shouldn't they be pushing for an EBA?

[ITCZ]

If NJS employees really want the chance to negotiate properly, shouldn't they be pushing for an EBA?
HELLO? HELLO? Only for 6 years mate.

Want to come over and tell us how its done? What would you recommend, a 117LJ agreement? Or would a 117LK be better?

[ITCZ]

Basically if the managements "wishless" is agreed to by the employee and then approved by the industrial relations guys, it stands.
Provided of course it doesn't break the law.

Such as the law that says you can't pay lower than the Fair Pay Commission minimum rate, which for an FO in a 146, F100, 717, E170 means a shade over $65,500pa.

Tired of studying the AIP and aircraft flight manuals? Try the Workplace Relations Act 1996 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/wra1996220/) as amended by WorkChoices in 2006. Pay close attention to Part 8, Divisions 1 through 4 to work out how to make a legal agreement with your new employer. Read Part 7, Division 2, Subdivisions G and H (being s194 to s207 inclusive) to work out your minimum rates of pay.

Or you could just join the union. Might be that the $610 union subs might see your NJS offer of $61k per year jump up to $65.5k. Net gain $4,900per annum.

Who says union subs are a wast of money?:rolleyes:

[Aquaplaner]

The reality of the situation is that as a new employee, you are presented with an AWA as the "terms and conditions of employment".

I.e.

"Hello Bloggs Mr. Chief Pilot here we were impressed with your interview so I am e-mailing you a copy of our pilot's AWA, it outlines all of the terms and conditions of employment. Take a couple of days to go through the document, give my office a call if you have any questions. If you are happy with the terms and conditions please call my office and we will send you some formal paperwork to sign, oh and please keep the AWA confidential as it is sensitive commercial information"

If Bloggs does not accept the conditions of the AWA than he does not have a job offer!

Companies are finding it harder to source pilots with the experience levels they have traditionally expected from new recruits, but don't think for a second that we have reached a point where the boss will sit down with a "bargaining agent" and negotiate the terms and conditions of potential new recruits (unless he thinks that he can end up paying you less:hmm: ).

If Bloggs Brasillia Captain does not accept the AWA than they will offer the job to one of his FO's, or maybe one of his old students who is flying pistons up north. And they will definitely accept the job paying almost double what they are earning now.

Blogg's then has a decision to make. Single handedly try and stop the slide in terms and conditions at this company by saying no to a job offering better T&C's than he presently on, or take the next step in building his career in a company where he will eventually make command on much higher salary.

What do you think he should do?

[R.Cruizo]

You make a very valid point. No one really wants to accept less T&C than what previous employees recieved, yet the staggered pay increases + the move onto a jet still make it more attractive than GA Turbo-prop.

Incidently, ( I apologise for a slight thread shift) has anyone interviewed in the 2nd & 3rd weeks of December heard back from NJS? Some from 1st week have been accepted and some knocked back. Many have heard nothing back.

[RENURPP]

The reality of the situation is that as a new employee, you are presented with an AWA as the "terms and conditions of employment".
I.e.
"Hello Bloggs Mr. Chief Pilot here we were impressed with your interview so I am e-mailing you a copy of our pilot's AWA, it outlines all of the terms and conditions of employment. Take a couple of days to go through the document, give my office a call if you have any questions. If you are happy with the terms and conditions please call my office and we will send you some formal paperwork to sign, oh and please keep the AWA confidential as it is sensitive commercial information"
If Bloggs does not accept the conditions of the AWA than he does not have a job offer!
Companies are finding it harder to source pilots with the experience levels they have traditionally expected from new recruits, but don't think for a second that we have reached a point where the boss will sit down with a "bargaining agent" and negotiate the terms and conditions of potential new recruits (unless he thinks that he can end up paying you less ).
If Bloggs Brasillia Captain does not accept the AWA than they will offer the job to one of his FO's, or maybe one of his old students who is flying pistons up north. And they will definitely accept the job paying almost double what they are earning now.
Blogg's then has a decision to make. Single handedly try and stop the slide in terms and conditions at this company by saying no to a job offering better T&C's than he presently on, or take the next step in building his career in a company where he will eventually make command on much higher salary.
What do you think he should do?
Well just signing it and hoping for the best is a bit like buying a house site unseen and not using any professionals to ensure the legalities of the transaction or confirm which piece of land you are purchasing. In other words madness.
The company may hold most of the cards but not the whole deck.
As the first post suggests contact the NJSPG or another trusted bargaining agent.
PM the originator of the post sounds like a good start.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

I think it's a very valid point that when you sign on you are given the AWA as T&C's for the job. People would generally sign them coz they want to work there in the vain hope things will get better. You are not thinking you'll need a lawyer to sort out your starting salary. I have a question though, is the company required to show you all current AWA's or just the one they want you to sign ie the lowest one. If they are not is it just a case of "this is what we think you are worth".

[RENURPP]

I have a question though, is the company required to show you all current AWA's or just the one they want you to sign ie the lowest one.
Just the one they are offering you!
That could be better, worse or the same as the one they offered the bloke ahead and behind you.
Don't kid yourselves, if guys accept the terms on offer without question, they (management) are low enough that they may well present a different one to the next guy and so on until they hit the bottom.

I don't think anyone is suggesting making an issue out of it at an interview, simply contact some one for guidance, once you have the AWA or job offer in your hot little hand.

[BAE146]

If Bloggs Brasillia Captain does not accept the AWA than they will offer the job to one of his FO's, or maybe one of his old students who is flying pistons up north.

Oh dear, so NJS will take whoever they can get. Not the most experienced for the job, the most suitable character, best attired etc,.?................just whoever is willing to accept the crappy AWA ?

I do hope NJS's clients are not reading this, does not instill confidence with that culture.:=

[RENURPP]

Oh dear, so NJS will take whoever they can get. Not the most experienced for the job, the most suitable character, best attired etc,.?................just whoever is willing to accept the crappy AWA ?


The guys they have recently employed have very good credentials from what I have found out.

Problem being, if conditions keep lowering you may well be right.

[AerocatS2A]

HELLO? HELLO? Only for 6 years mate.

Want to come over and tell us how its done? What would you recommend, a 117LJ agreement? Or would a 117LK be better?

Na, I'd be no use to you at all.

Good luck with it all.

[DutyofCare]

Aquaplaner! That was an excellent post this morning and you've hit the nail on the right on head! Well done...:ok:

[National J Bosses]

RENURPPs onto to it.

[assymetric]

No point in us all crying about the AWA's unless we are prepared to vote with our head during the next Federal Elections. They will ruin us all. Big Q, Virgin and Jetstar domestic will be next.

assymetric

[cunninglinguist]

Hard to see why. A resource sector that is going crazy. Solid contract with Qantas to operate 717 Qlink services. 146 aircraft that will go where others cannot and fully paid for years ago.
How could the future be anything but rosey?
Renurpp ( god this kills me :eek: ) is spot on!
The " solid " contract on the 71s depends on leases being renewed, the first of which expire in the not too distant future.
The crazy resource sector being invaded by Ozjet, Alliance, Skyairworld??, skywest et al.
The abovementioned companies A/C will pretty much go anywhere the 146 will, since they are mostly operating into 2000m strips, evidenced by alliance poaching LST and WME.
Only 2 of the 146s were actually owned by NJS ( this could have changed slightly but I doubt they own all, or close to all, of them )

BTW, whatever happened to the no disadvantage clause in that no good piece of :mad: AWA? the one that said nobody employed by NJS could be on lower conditions?
ITCZ, only 6, I was bashing my head against the wall for at least 10 ;)

[Icarus2001]

Fair points cunning. Certainly interesting as so many operators want a piece of the pie. As gaunty has said elsewhere, even a booming resource market cannot support ALL of these operators. The mining companies are shrewd operators and will be playing all off against each other.

As to the no disadvantage clause, my understanding is that the salary and overall package cannot be below the federal award, so what is the award for a 146 or 717 FO?

[cunninglinguist]

It used to be that no one in NJS could work for less than anyone else doing the same job in NJS. IE. You could'nt have one 71 effo earning 15k less than another, this has obviously changed somewhat :confused:
All those in NJS that opposed, or did nothing about getting, an EBA for all those years, take a bow :D


This could well have changed with the new " Work-no-choices " :mad: from little Johnny.

[Icarus2001]

Okay I have checked the award here (http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Search/view.asp?docid=242918&query=&page=34&quickview=Y) and it appears a 146 or 717 FO should receive 62,488 pa plus 3,971 allowance for the use of an instrument rating.
That would be a total of $66,459 as the award MINIMUM so how can an AWA be below this?

[OpsNormal]

Icarus, try here (http://www.afap.org.au/files/I816UJIS5D/Pilots%20GA%20AFAP.pdf)

Much more up to date. :ok:

[Icarus2001]

Thanks for the better link.

So that makes the AWARD minimum $65,506 plus $ 4,234 for the CIR. Giving an award minimum of $69,740.

So explain to me again how they can offer an AWA of around $61,000.

[Horatio Leafblower]

One of the changes in "work without choices" is the prohibition of these sorts of clauses; there are five allowable matters in an EBA now and someone else's terms and conditions are none of your business as far as Johnny is concerned.

So no, my contract with you cannot dictate what anyone else gets paid.:ouch:

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

I don't want to get too deep into this but I'll tell a story. There was once a company that operated in Northern Australia. They had a whole heap of staff who were unhappy with T&C's and there was an AWA coming up for renewal. A truckload of the staff left and went to greener pastures with a range of other companies. This left the company well short with the possibility of more leaving. The next AWA that was signed was much more favourable and the crew still at the company rang the crew that left and thanked them, who were very happy in their new jobs so were happy to help. Timing is everything!

[Dog1]

Horatio,

Not quite. If you look here (https://www.workchoices.gov.au/ourplan/publications/WorkChoicesandthecontentofagreements.htm), you will see that even though clauses such as that in future agreements are 'prohibited', such clauses in pre-wprkchoices AWA's are still valid. Most of the crew in NJS are on 'pre Workchoices' agreements.

The AWA's currently being offered could therefore be argued as breaching those already in place. The problem lies in whether the current crew are rady to stand up for their new colleagues and enforce their rights.

In the past, little support was forthcoming. You can judge for yourselves as the future unfolds.:oh:

Dog

[cunninglinguist]

sorry, slightly off thread but...............

How's the admiral going on the 71 :E :hmm:

[AerocatS2A]

WOG, it is true that the departure of staff helped with the new AWA in that company. However there were some other contributing factors such as severe housing shortages plus the fact that they actually make a substantial profit and could afford to give a little bit more. There were also some significant concessions given by the employees. Still, the role played by the competition was valuable.

P.S. Don't know if you got my dog's PM to you, the website was playing up at the time and he was having trouble with his mitten paws and the laptop keyboard, but I'm afraid we won't be attending your thingo, you'll get official word via snail-mail and telephone.

Cheers.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Pittsboy, I do think the AWA action wouldn't have been as good had we not bailed. I also hear that others are not getting so well taken care of and are putting up a bit of a fight. They had the exodus too and they don't seem to be getting the bonus you people are. It does put my theory into doubt. Can't win them all Captain?

Pity you're not coming to the thingy, will be a top do. I did get you're dogs pm. Call if you're about and don't drop the baby.

[dodgybrothers]

little story doing the rounds that the head honcho did not come up to scratch on his CTL. Any of you NJS guys care to enlighten us?

[cunninglinguist]

So is failing to be recommended for a check strike 1 :confused:

..........or ( as has happened in the past ) is it " well he did'nt go for his check therefore he did'nt fail a check " :ugh:

[illusion]

Well, how did the Admiral go? Is he still an Admiral, or been reclassified as a Chief Pity Officer or a disabled seaman?:{

[Cravenmorehead]

Hey Cunninglinguish,
As with everything in NJS the Grey will merge with the black and the boys will look after each other. The admiral will get through he has the photo of the required people with the Alsation dog, a lovely bunch in good old Adelaide.

[yowie]

Er Kaput:D

[Much Ado]

Guys having shared your asylum in an earlier life I feel your pain but maybe we can stop the 'line check by lynch mob' speculation and get back on topic?

[cunninglinguist]

It kind of is on topic, much ado, since the :mad: in question is at least partially responsible for the eroding of conditions at NJS, if for no other reason than poor management. :ugh: