New Airline Picks...not Melbourne, but You Know Where...

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Melbourne-centric/Gilligan: calm down, calm down - your anger is doing nothing other than taking a few more minutes off your life at the other end. As well as giving us great mirth!

New airline picks Sydney

Scott Rochfort (The Sydney Morning Herald)
January 23, 2007

ETIHAD Airways, the first foreign airline to be granted access to Australia in more than a year, has chosen Sydney as its first port of call, sparking further outrage from Melbourne and Brisbane Airports, which claim they are facing a "capacity crunch".

Major international airlines have continued to scale back services to the two airports and chosen to concentrate on Sydney while the Federal Government has refused access to airlines that want to lift services to the other eastern capitals.

Brisbane and Melbourne airports now have stepped up their calls for the Federal Government to grant foreign carriers such as Emirates and Qatar more access into Australia.

Brisbane Airport has warned the crisis will be compounded by Singapore Airlines' plans to scale back capacity this April."We're facing a capacity crunch," said Brisbane Airport spokesman Jim Carden.

Despite the airports reporting record international passenger numbers, they have suffered a fall in available airline seats over the past year. There are concerns demand could soon outstrip supply on some routes, angering tourism bodies which claim the lack of capacity is constraining visitor numbers.

"It's not about Open Skies, it's about meeting the demand that is there and is forecast," Mr Carden said.

Singapore Airlines blamed cuts to its Brisbane services - from three to two a day - on delays in the delivery of the A380 superjumbo. The airline said it had "fewer available aircraft than we had planned for this period".

Malaysia Airlines also plans to redirect its flights to Brisbane through Sydney in March, further cutting capacity into the city.

The cuts in Singapore and Malaysia Airlines capacity will come on top of the eight per cent cut in available international seats into Brisbane Airport in the 12 months to April.

Melbourne Airport, meanwhile, faces the loss of Austrian Airlines this March. British Airways withdrew last year.

While Melbourne has experienced a drop in the number of planes, passenger numbers were up as a higher percentage of seats were being filled.

Melbourne Airport reported a 3 per cent lift in international passengers in the December quarter.

Queensland Tourism Industry Council chief executive Daniel Gschwind said: "There certainly has been a perception lately that the load factors are very high, that occupancy is better than ever.

"Concerns are arising that we may not be able to accommodate the growth [in visitors]," he said.

But Sydney Airport, which now handles more than 45 per cent of international arrivals into Australia, has steered clear of the debate.

The Federal Government is due to hold talks with Emirates in March, in which the airline will press for a doubling of its flights to 98 a week in phases. "We need additional flights to accommodate Australia's growth potential," said an Emirates spokesman.

"We are looking forward to the negotiations between Dubai and Australia where our plan to help grow Australia's tourism exports will be on the table."

The Qatar Government is also due to hold talks. It was refused flights into Melbourne last year.

[roamingwolf]

Golly Sunfish, it looks like it's not only Qantas who giving mel the flick.

Mate it looks like gilligan's island is getting smaller by the day..I reckon if even ansett was still around they would give it a miss too.

[neville_nobody]

After his rant on another thread about QF being Sydney centric I don't want to be around when he reads this!! :} :} :E

[Aussie]

Anyone know if Qatar is coming to Aus? Why did they refuse it into Melb?

Aussie

[Buster Hyman]

while the Federal Government has refused access to airlines that want to lift services to the other eastern capitals.

I think this is the most intriguing aspect of this. If a foreign carrier wants to fly to SYD, so be it. When they want to fly elsewhere & are denied access, then that is another matter...:confused:

[NAMPS]

Did Juan Antonio make the announcement?

:E

[gaunty]

Frankly the ONLY airlines that Melbourne, my favourite City in the whole world,:ok: should accept are the likes of BOAC, PAN AM, SWISSAIR, AIR FRANCE, SAS, LUFTHANSA, EL AL, CATHAY, AIR INDIA, OLYMPIC, ALITALIA, QANTAS and AIR NEW ZEALAND.

All the rest are just arrivistes.:E

[lowerlobe]

I believe that sunfish’s lack of response is because he is at his Yacht club doing some networking with other high level economists.

That is the Bonnydoon Yacht Club nestled between the high voltage towers and I believe the carp on the luncheon menu is excellent.

[woftam]

How's the serenity. :D

[Funk]

Bugger!:yuk:

[Howard Hughes]

It seems Buster was the only one to read the original post!;)

If that is indeed the case, questions should be asked...:ooh:

PS: This ones going straight to the pool room...

[B A Lert]

I would have thought it in the National interest to have a good spread of International services/carriers throughout the country. Sydney is one of the most congested airports in the world. It is also the most populous of all Australian cities in the most populous state. For these reasons, and because of its notoriety out of Australia, Sydney tops the list when it comes to the punters. However, the imbalance is not good, nor is Sydney's congestion well known congestion.


To spread the dollars around and to ease the congestion, the Aust Govt should allow other carriers in, but only to the points other than Sydney. Like, how many foreigners want to operate to/from Adelaide? They can be counted on one hand. Perth and Brisbane aren't much better served but Brisbane is better off than Perth and Adelaide. The foreigners want to come to Sydney as that's where the money is for them - they are certainly not interested in Australian tourism despite their spin.

[Sunfish]

Ron and Edna and Lowerlobe, I love your attempts at Ad Hominem attacks, so charming and well thought out.

If you had a brain Lowerlobe, you would know that Eildon is just about empty and the only yachts at Bonnie Doon are trailbikes at the moment.

You should be aware that this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to interstate rivalry over this matter, I am not alone in my beliefs and there is considerable evidence accumulating in various quarters to back up the contentions made by me, other interested parties and politicians.

We are fast coming to the conclusoin that if QF won't change its practices in the national interest, then it needs to be exposed to the blowtorch of unfettered competition. Then we will see if anyone really wants to fly to your rat infested dungheap and wait on the ground for three hours to reboard for their final destinations.


As for Etihad, I will go out on a limb and guess that they are flying to Sydney only because they need to get their aircraft maintained by Qantas, and that is the only place they can do it.

[Bleve]

If pax want to fly to Sydney, then pax want to fly to Sydney.

[lowerlobe]

Ha …Ha….Ha..Sunfish..I mean Gilligan…I find it hilarious that you say if I had a brain I would know about the drought.This shows AGAIN your lack of perception of your posts and this issue.It is the issue of you being a tosser by telling us you were going to the yacht club that caused me to joke about a scene from a great Australian movie.A few others got the joke but not you.

As for the rest of your post it smacks of the same unsubstantiated delusional manure that you usually vomit up.

Quote “ I am not alone in my beliefs and there is considerable evidence accumulating in various quarters to back up the contentions made by me, other interested parties and politicians.”……..

Again the same ..I am not alone….I have friends……There are others…other economists…

It’s all the same as you never post the authors or sources to support these fictional theories of yours.The post which this thread is based on shows the reasons for Sydney getting the number of flights it does.

What does the rest of the world see when they see pics of Australia from tourism sources.

Sydney Harbour…

Opera House…

Bondi….

Sydney Skyline…

Sydney Harbour Bridge..

The Rocks Area…

Blue Mountains…

Northern Beaches

Etc….etc…

What has Melbourne got ,let me think….the Puffing Billy steam train…fair enough….ummm…The Tennis (when it’s on)…..Phillip Island and the Penguin parade…yep the kids and overseas tourists love this one…ummmm…Melbourne skyline…sorry only joking..Westgate Bridge..umm don’t think so...thats about it…..Any other attractions and might as well fly to Sydney because they are closer.

However the biggest part of your belief is that Qantas has to go because you blame it for the demise of Ansett and you base all of your arguments on that.You are willing to have 30,000 people lose their jobs and the resulting economic chaos not too mention social impact just to satisfy your hatred and jealousy …..pal you need help

[Howard Hughes]

What does the rest of the world see when they see pics of Australia from tourism sources.
Sydney Harbour…
Opera House…
Bondi….
Sydney Skyline…
Sydney Harbour Bridge..
The Rocks Area…
Blue Mountains…
Northern Beaches
Etc….etc…
Err...
Ayers Rock/Olgas
Great Barrier Reef
Kakadu
Bungle Bungles
Kings Canyon
Shark Bay
Barossa Valley
Margaret River Region

All more than 1500 klms from Sydney!:hmm:

My understanding is that the top four tourist destinations in Australia are (in no particular order)...
Opera House/Harbour Bridge
Ayres Rock/Olgas
Great Barrier Reef
Phillip Island Penguin Parade.

As you can see they are well spread out amongst the states.;)

I suspect the main reason for the majority of flights originating/terminating in Sydney is simply population based, not to mention it is perfectly positioned between the next two largest cities, makes for a great start/finishing point really!:ok:

[cartexchange]

Are you joking Howard!
No one knows about the Bl00dy penguins!
I like MEL but foreign tourists are simply not interested in going there!
I have spoken to countless thousands of our pax and they have all given MEL the thumbs down.
I know the MEL people will hate hearing this but its the truth, QF and the Other airlines all know this.
Sunfish Im not from SYD but your posts are seriously disturbing!
Scary mate I certainlly hope your never on one of my flights!

How can anyone hate a city and population of 4 million people so much as you do!

[Buster Hyman]

I have spoken to countless thousands of our pax and they have all given MEL the thumbs down
Does it just naturally come up in conversation, or is it part of a survey you conduct?:rolleyes:

[cartexchange]

Here we go!
People will only hear what they want to and ignore the rest!

No buster, I shouldn't even have to justify this.

When I speak to the pax, ( we CC do on occasion do that!) i ask them how they liked Australia and their perception and where they would go back to!

Sorry to tell you 99% of the times people give MEL the thumbs down, they dont like it, didn't like the climate, see nothing that they thought was different and see no value in going down there.

The yanks really have a negative impression on it.

I have done the QF93 and 94 many times and its mainly full of ex pats, AUS nationals or transit pax.

Clear enough!

[Buster Hyman]

Oh yeah! Well, I spoke to two Spanish tennis players in the Gym just 20mins ago & they love the place, can't be here often enough they said! I would've gotten more from them but they don't speak English.

Anyway, my Mum has spoken to millions of people around the globe and, roughly, seven Martians & they all rave about the place.

Okay, okay...I give in. As QF93 & 94 are the only flights to Melbourne now, I'll concede defeat...you're right, it's a hole.:zzz:

[lowerlobe]

Howard …I did not point out other Australian holiday destinations just the tip of the Ice Berg which happen to be in or around Sydney.
As a holiday destination Australia has more than it’s fair share but my post was to point out that Melbourne is not really one of them.

Of the 8 destinations that you pointed out on top of mine how many are close to Mel……NONE

However I have thought of another which Victoria can lay claim to and that is the Great Ocean Road and it’s attractions.

My point though is that Gilligan talks about market forces but the market is talking and they want to fly to Sydney not Melbourne. I have lived in Melbourne and I liked it but it does not compare to other picture postcard
destinations if you know what I mean

Sunfish and the rest of the flat Earth society are delusional in their non acceptance of how the world works.

Again though this is not about destinations or fictional economics theories or even yacht clubs this is about one persons jealousy and bitterness after Ansett went south.
:ooh:

[Awol57]

Without pouring more fuel on the already burning fire, how can we say the market is at work in regard to demand to fly to YSSY if it's the Federal Govt restricting flights to other places?

I'm not from Melbourne or Sydney so couldn't give a crap which one is better or worse, but it does suprise me somewhat that YSSY apparently accounts for 45% of international travel. I would have thought Brisbane would be more logical being a bit closer to the rest of the world (so to speak) than either YSSY or YMML. Admittedly another 90-120 mins of flight time on a 20hr flight possibly seems significant but it does seem a bit strange. There are plenty of things to see in Brisvegas - gold coast, up to Cairns etc it just seems strange that over half our international travellors want to see the opera house and bridge?

I realise some of that is business but humour me, I am genuinely curious about the whole issue. To me YMML in terms of distance would be least favourable location, with YPPH and YBBN being the obvious choices in terms of distance. Obviously still pretty isolated in YPPH but do you get my drift?

[Sunfish]

And for the record...


http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21107747-664,00.html

THE number of international visitors arriving at Melbourne Airport has slumped during the past 18 months by the equivalent of more than three jumbo-jet loads a day.
Airport management blames Canberra bureaucrats for a problem that is costing Victoria tens of millions of dollars in tourist income.

Overseas visitors landing in Melbourne spend an average $3500 each during their stay, according to official surveys.

Asian and Middle East airlines, such as Air Vietnam and Qatar Airlines, have sought and been refused flight rights to Melbourne.

Both want to take the place of carriers no longer operating to and from Melbourne.

Figures released by the airport yesterday show that international passenger arrivals fell by 500,000 during the 12 months to June 30 last year -- enough people to fill 1245 Boeing 747 jumbos.

While many of these visitors will eventually arrive in Victoria via internal flights, road or rail, the loss of direct flights is a worrying trend for the airport and tourism operators.

[Sunfish]

The "Everyone wants to go to Sydney" market argument is a little thin because after 20+ hours travelling from say. London or New york, you will get out anywhere you can.

To put it another way, if you based your international airport at say Newcastle or Woolongong people would get out of the aircraft there and head for the nearest hotel.

The issue is a real one because international investors will not normally locate to a place where they cannot get immediate direct flights to their home base - and thats why the IT and overseas finance industries located into Sydney - they simply couldn't get anywhere else, in effect "corraled" by Qantas.

As for the number of international tourists who want to get to Melbourne, you'd be surprised, and in addition as someone who was married to a Pom and also has American relatives, you would be surprised at the number of people who have explained to me "It's so hard to get to Melbourne".

I guess the only good thing going is that the Sydney basin is now full and I hope the overcrowding continues. Victoria, and Melbourne in particular has more than enough room to grow.

Thanks for nothing Qantas.

[lowerlobe]

Hang on Gilligan I'm getting my violin out but it's so hard to play because I'm crying so much...

Notice the quote from Gilligan is from a MEL paper which has never been known to be pro Mel and the figures come from...Mel Airport..

Gilligan,If people want to fly to mel why do the airlines leave and fly into Sydney....I'll give you a hint ...it's because the pax want to....If you want to live in Mexico fine but don't complain about the lack of services.

By the way you have not answered why Vic has to buy at least 25% of it's power from NSW.If you guys had the infrastructure you might do a little better or maybe you should sell the airport to the Mac Bank.

Hang on I forgot this is all about Ansett ..........duohh.........sorry

[1DC]

I'm a bit hesitant to get involved in this regular catfight of yours but as a frequent visitor who comes every year my thoughts are this.
Once you have visited the regular tourist highlights of Sydney the place becomes a bit dull, it is a nice place to visit for a week or so but any longer and it can't compete with Melbourne.Melbourne is a much more interesting place and has far more to offer.
Incidentally the last time i arrived from the USA i had to come via Brisbane because the Melbourne flights were all full.If Qantas aren't interested in increasing longhaul services to MEL why does the government protect the route for them, whenever i have flown longhaul with Qantas they are always full so they seem to be able to cope with competition. If other airlines want to fly to Melbourne then let them..

[Bolty McBolt]

A little insight to Melbourne airport.
I was recently marooned in MEL International due to a QF delay of 4 hours plus on the wrong side of customs i.e. Checked in.
With time to burn I wandered around to check the International terminals board of fair only to find a few shops with selling kitsch clothing with Australian Icons stitched onto them, a surf shop and not much more.
Now as a seasoned traveller I had a good book with me (for the youth reading this thread check out "wikipedia" to see what a book is). While reading this book I realised I had nothing to look forward to on the coming delayed flight except for QF long haul cabin crew service. :yuk: So I thought a refreshing ale would kill some time and relax my mood.
low and behold ??
No bar to be found which is UN-Australian. Shame Shame Shame
Just a small kiosk with 2 staff trying valiantly to serve food, espresso coffee, bottle beer etc to 406 bored and frustrated pax from the delayed flight plus any others hoping for some refreshment before their flight.

I won’t say SYD international is even good but its head and shoulders above Melbourne facility. No wonder BA pulled out.

[Buster Hyman]

Ahh, but its a viscious circle Bolty. If the airlines aren't coming, or the Govt. is not allowing them (as above & the crux of this particular issue for me), why would any proprietor bother to staff a complete set of facilities for 1 delayed flight?

If other ports are not marketed properly to tourists, then why would anyone expect people to come. Of course, the thousands of people that cartexchange spoke are excluded from that when it comes to MEL.

As it happens, BA has pulled out of MEL more often than Boris in a broom closet! And I can assure you, the departures lounge is much better than it was the first time they withdrew! ;)

[Tom Sawyer]

As for Etihad, I will go out on a limb and guess that they are flying to Sydney only because they need to get their aircraft maintained by Qantas, and that is the only place they can do it.

So what about Cathay, Virgin Atlantic and Emirates? All can look after A345/6 whereas I'm not sure anyone in QF would have the cover.

[galdian]

Buster
You spoke to two Spanish tennis players and within 20 min found a computer to post on - seriously, is "getting a life" at sometime in your life anything of a priority?? :8 :8

And the upside to the downside (yes increadibly bad english but stiff, live with it) I like Melbourne, am happy to call it home and don't give a rats a**e what other people think!

Further for Buster - I have been a lurker on Pprune for many years, only just recently been brave enough to join (quiet sensative type you understand.)
Have always enjoyed your posts :ok: :ok: although a word of warning - if you fly as well as you "play with words" you have Bugger All chance of getting into management!!
Just a kindly word of thought.

[priapism]

Not to mention the epicentre of racial harmony - Cronulla

[Buster Hyman]

Ooohh...Lurkers :E Just one small step to stalker!!!;)

Now, the new gym equipment we have has cable & I reckon an internet connection if I look hard enough! (25% Power courtesy of NSW :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) I had to race to a PC to make sure I remembered the correct pronunciation of "Muchos Grandos Melbourn...os!" which translated to "Geez Manuel, this place ****s on Sydney!"

As you can see, it was worth the extra sprint!:ok:

Nearest I got to flying was going to the pointy end & saying; "An extra tonne of fuel eh? Where do ya want it? Here in the cockpit?":D

[galdian]

Buster
So you went into the cockpit and "gently" indicated that the chances of their getting extra fuel was "f**k all!"
My humblest apologies - obviously, with your tact and discretion you are already a manager; maybe a GD protoge!! :E :E
(and I meant that in a nasty-but-oh so nice type of way!) :ok:

[Buster Hyman]

If I was a GD protege', Pprune would just be me & Danny and the rest of you would have to bid for access!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/hmm.gif

[Fliegenmong]

C’mon people they are both dumps (SYD & MEL), tell me why there is so many people moving up here to Queensland? No you don’t have to tell me why because standard of living is way way down in SYD & MEL, hell holes, both of them, Mel a little more so than Syd because of that ridiculous winter game they play that you score points for missing the goals in. :confused: :ugh:

The biggest problem we face up here is the amount of Victorians & New south Welshpeople moving in and wrecking it, much as they did in their home towns /cities. It don’t take long to find Sydney a little dull, and having been shown all the best that Melbourne has to offer by some local Melbournians, well……..is that the best you can do? :hmm: :rolleyes:

Yeah sure there are some nice places around the harbour, the bridge is iconic, the (some) Melbourne architecture is impressive, but to live there? LIVE there?, that’s’ no life!!! :{

I really think we should separate from the rest of Australia, reclaim our rightful southern border, and apply ludicrously difficult visa requirements to visit our wonderful republic in the sun. Vic and NSW Folk are welcome as temp slave labourers only. :} :D

[Buster Hyman]

I'll second that...and Pauline can be your Queen! Joh can be your deity (You, you, you, you...etc), Cane Toads can be on your coat of arms...

Rugby can be your National sport & you can have it! A bunch of "No neck Nancies" running around sticking their fingers up each others jetsies!!! Dear, oh dear...at least you get some points for "trying":rolleyes: As for goals, they can't be kicked unless someone carefully places it on the ground & everyone else stands back while some squib thinks about kicking it? Strewth! Real goals are kicked on the run, with the goals at right angles to you and real "men" (not those Sydney ones) about to push you face first into the fence!

;)

[roamingwolf]

Hey Boys and Girls did you hear that NASA has done some work with their satellites and found that Tasmania is moving closer to the Mainland by about 1.5 mm a year……..yep Melbourne sucks

Someone was having a shot at the best city in Oz because it has the pillow biters parade once a year.If you want to see a real set of girls just watch the moomba parade..

And don't get me started on the land of the brown paper bag.Have you guys up in Queensland got electricity yet?

[Buster Hyman]

BWAHAHAHA! There's nothing like an original joke Dunnunda...pity that wasn't one of them.:hmm:




;)

[Fliegenmong]

Like I said you guys stay down there……………:)

We’ve electricity – “Don’t you worry about that” :}

And keep up that VFL stuff, an expansive, messy free for all BUT it does open the door to such quality events as that “International Rules” – Ha Ha Ha Ha - LMAO, do you get points for missing in that one too? :p :D

Been nice stirring you now, but I have to run, off to eat Moreton bay Bugs and mangos, exchange a few brown paper bags with the local member, and sink a few ice cold XXXXs with Queen Pauline, who, as it so happens proposed some policies later taken up by that shining light of honesty & integrity, none other than dear old Kim Il John of Kirribilli.:rolleyes:

[Buster Hyman]

Ahh Queenslanders...predictable one day...ditto the next.;)

[roamingwolf]

Fliegenmong, Mate I admit youv'e got me with your last line or two.A few bugs washed down with a frosty cold beer and sitting back with couple of mango's..what a way to spend a hot summers day.

As far as mexico goes ....no hard feelings.... someone has to live down there and turn the lights off after everyone else has left.

hey buster whats the best thing to come out of Melbourne....yep you know it's the Hume highway...

I know I know an oldy but it's still a good one...:D

Just out in the latest edition of NO Idea which the strife bought.Sunfish is going to be crowned Queen of Moomba

[VH-Cheer Up]

Here we go!
People will only hear what they want to and ignore the rest!
No buster, I shouldn't even have to justify this.
When I speak to the pax, ( we CC do on occasion do that!) i ask them how they liked Australia and their perception and where they would go back to!
Sorry to tell you 99% of the times people give MEL the thumbs down, they dont like it, didn't like the climate, see nothing that they thought was different and see no value in going down there.
The yanks really have a negative impression on it.
I have done the QF93 and 94 many times and its mainly full of ex pats, AUS nationals or transit pax.
Clear enough!

Not really. Any argument purporting to be backed by a statistic of 99% "clearly enough" is not being taken from a representative sample. Perhaps you are auto-selecting pax to talk to, whose wrists are a little more flexible than mainstream? (Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's a perfectly valid choice. Just not statistically valid.

If Syd-er-ney is SOOO attractive to the punters, how come our inbound tourism figures are slumping? (down by 38,200 visitors, first three quarters of 2006 on 2005, source: Tourism Australia).

Or is the real reason that people aren't coming to Australia because they can't get (or afford) a seat on a flight? Capacity issues strangle inbound tourism from the USA and pricing into Australia out of Asia means many Asians now prefer to take Asian holidays aboard exceptionally cheap Asian LCCs.

Ergo, if high pricing and strangled capacity into Australia means less tourists, it follows that a reduction of capacity into Melbourne would result in less people flying into Melbourne. I hope you're following me here.

And as for the airlines "giving the people what the want" clearly they've never listened to businesspeople from Melbourne who don't want to transit via Sydney. Actually, when was the last time any airline actually asked passengers what they wanted? Aside from "chicken or fish", back in the old days, I mean?

[roamingwolf]

Vh cheer up,
Mate This is not really about which is better but about a goose who thinks qf should go the same way as Ansett.

I have lived in both cities and both are different but if you really think the airlines are giving other cities the flick then ring your local polly and tell them you will vote for the other guy or better still form the "we want flights to mel party"

[Bolty McBolt]

I never intended to turn this into a Melbourne bashing session just a perception of how the facilities may be viewed by a an airline having to pay for the use of said facilities and inflict the short comings on their passengers.
If the price of MEL is the same as SYD and you can get slots at SYD it's a no brainer + SYD is a better hub to all tourist destinations in Australia except for Tasmania.

Back to the melbourne bashing.. Melbourne..Its ummm errrr noice period.
Its all been said in this thread. They say Melbourne people are nicer but I couldn't give a rats because I am from Sydney and hope I am never described as nice. Queensland, gods little joke beautiful place but filled it full of queenslanders.

To those that knock :- The Very Biggest Annual Event is when a few hundred p..fters march down Oxford Street

This event brings in more money and visitors than the 3 Grand prix. Indy Car, Melbourne and the formula 1 bikes put together.
For those that have not seen the irony, these visitors are whom pay our wage.
Perhaps Victoia can get Jeff back and he can steal the Mardi Gras event to Melbourne and that would help Sunfishes plight :ok:

[Mr.Buzzy]

Aaaah Queensland... Beautiful one day.....Perfect the next. Why was it filled with bogans?

Sydneysiders. If Doyles is your idea of a "top feed" time to visit Tassie or Melbourne or even Brissy. Talkabout a letdown!

bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbzz zzzzzz

[Guptar]

To put it simply, Melbourne simply doesnt rate on the world tourism scene. Ask anyone for overseas, they know Sydney, Bondi, the Harbour bridge, Melbourne???.........wheres that??. And I have been in the airline/tourism game for 25 years.

Melbourne is simply a second rate city, custermer service standards are generally non existant, poor at best, business practices are mind boggling......known as the city that closes at 9:30. The CBD is generally a discrace, ....have they never heared of decent footpaths, rather than the cheap asphalt that masquerades as a footpath in front of even in front of the most prestigeous downtown buildings. The southern end of George St in Sydney is a shining example of how it should be done.

Radio.....3AW the suposedly no 1 talk back station in VIC, apart from Neil Mitchel who seems good, their breakfast line up is simply embarresing. While 2GB's Alan Jones is doing a hard hitting interview with the state premier or PM, the best 3AW can come up with is ïs it grouse or shouse". Not to mention the "rumour has it"segment. Surely they can get somone with a better intelect that these two clowns.

For the state that continually bangs on about their being the no 1 sporting capital of the world, their general apathy, indeed hostility towards NRL, or anything thats not ÄFL"is puzzling. Look at the popularity of the Swans in Sydney, you cant get a ticket to a home game for love or money. 45,000+ to every game, week in week out. The storm is lucky to pull 10,000 to a home game, the avarege being 6,000.

Additionally, the no 1 sporting state chose not to show the Bledisloe Cup live back in July, rather the "sound of music"was deemed more important. Sporting capital, I think not.

The anti-Sydney angle that continually comes out of the print and electronic media is tiresome and boring. Headlines such as "Melbourne smashes Sydney as Australia's and the worlds most liveable city", "Melbourne beats Sydney yet again in.........." well you get my point. Rather than continually congratulate themselves on how they "beat Sydney"and have made it the most livable city, more effort should be made to actually 'make it the worlds most liveable city". Tourist are tired of the artsty/fartsy superficial , plastic cultre that exists in Melbourne. There is enough of that in LA.........and dont get me started on the "guest lists" that many run down, dingy pubs employ to make their image seem more elitist.

Style over substance.

Some hard facts, as for eating, food etc. Melbourne is no better or worse that Sydney or any major world city. Same goes for arts and entertainment. It may have been so once but complacency has left them behind the rapidy advancing competition of other cities.

The airlines are no dummies, they dont fly where people dont want to go. Brisbane is now the no 2 city in Australia as far as inbound intl pax. Brisbane is an outward looking, vibrant city going from strength to strength. Melbourne, unfortunately is an inward looking, decaying city, even with the protracted renovations at Sothern Cross station taken into account.

Melbourne simply must do better. Unfortunately Melbournians have come to believe their own hype.

[roamingwolf]

hey Sunshine err Sunfish err Gilligan,

Mate Here's an idea for a new bumper sticker for Melbourne...

"When I grow up I want to be like Sydney"

I had a laugh when someone complained about the pollution in Sydney harbour..have they had a captain cook at the Yarra.Maybe you guys can take a leaf out of Sydneys tourism book and do tours of the westgate bridge.yep that would be a winner.

It's a pity that your major tourism attractions are all out of Melbourne.I reckon you could have a catch phrase...

Visit Melbourne then travel to interesting attractions...melbourne your destination port for fun places

[Mr.Buzzy]

Hey Guptar,

custermer service

I really like the "custerm" you have of growing hair all over your body, drinking too much, chanting racism at your beaches and making headline news all around the country.
Man that guy did your tourism wonders!!

Please teach us all some more!

bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbzzzzzbonebrainzbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz z

[VH-Cheer Up]

Guptar
I have been in the airline/tourism game for 25 years. That surely qualifies you as an expert on Melbourne.
Melbourne is simply a second rate city, custermer service standards are generally non existant, poor at best, business practices are mind boggling......known as the city that closes at 9:30. Have you actually visited Mebourne since 1979?The CBD is generally a discrace, ....have they never heared of decent footpaths, rather than the cheap asphalt that masquerades as a footpath in front of even in front of the most prestigeous downtown buildings. Sorry, how much should the City of Melbourne be paying to assure the quality of its asphalt matches that of Sydney?The southern end of George St in Sydney is a shining example of how it should be done.Paved with gold, I presume?
Radio.....3AW the suposedly no 1 talk back station in VIC, apart from Neil Mitchel who seems good, their breakfast line up is simply embarresing. Unlike your spelling...While 2GB's Alan Jones is doing a hard hitting interview with the state premier or PM, the best 3AW can come up with is ïs it grouse or shouse". Ah yes, Alan Jones, probably the No. 1 reason for living in Melbourne.Not to mention the "rumour has it"segment. Surely they can get somone with a better intelect that these two clowns.Try retuning your radio to Jon Faine on ABC774. He's the most feared interviewer by politicians of all ilks.
For the state that continually bangs on about their being the no 1 sporting capital of the world, their general apathy, indeed hostility towards NRL, or anything thats not ÄFL"is puzzling. Wonder why Melbourne got the Commonwealth Games, World Swimming Championships, Australian Open Tennis, Grand Prix, etc, etc...Look at the popularity of the Swans in Sydney, you cant get a ticket to a home game for love or money. 45,000+ to every game, week in week out. One AFL team to a city of 4M+ people. No wonder they sell out!The storm is lucky to pull 10,000 to a home game, the avarege being 6,000.Welcome to competition in the nation's sporting capital. NRL just is not that popular here yet.
Additionally, the no 1 sporting state chose not to show the Bledisloe Cup live back in July, rather the "Sound of Music"was deemed more important. Nothing wrong with a good show tune... Ask the guys on the CC forum... And how many Oscars did the Bledisloe Cup get?Sporting capital, I think not.Because of one sporting code???? GIMME A BREAK!!!
The anti-Sydney angle that continually comes out of the print and electronic media is tiresome and boring. Headlines such as "Melbourne smashes Sydney as Australia's and the worlds most liveable city", "Melbourne beats Sydney yet again in.........." well you get my point. Rather than continually congratulate themselves on how they "beat Sydney"and have made it the most livable city, more effort should be made to actually 'make it the worlds most liveable city". Tourist are tired of the artsty/fartsy superficial , plastic cultre that exists in Melbourne. Can't interest you in the pitch to get Melbourne hosting the 2009 World Spelling Bee then?There is enough of that in LA.........and dont get me started on the "guest lists" that many run down, dingy pubs employ to make their image seem more elitist.
Style over substance.Sure, in Sydney...
Some hard facts, as for eating, food etc. Melbourne is no better or worse that Sydney or any major world city. Sorry, thought you were saying the "custermer service standards were generally non-existent"Same goes for arts and entertainment. It may have been so once but complacency has left them behind the rapidy advancing competition of other cities.
The airlines are no dummies, they dont fly where people dont want to go. Try telling that to Herb KelleherBrisbane is now the no 2 city in Australia as far as inbound intl pax. Brisbane is an outward looking, vibrant city going from strength to strength. Melbourne, unfortunately is an inward looking, decaying city, even with the protracted renovations at Sothern Cross station taken into account.
Melbourne simply must do better. Unfortunately Melbournians have come to believe their own hype.You're right, all of us who have chosen to live in Melbourne should go into the Hall of Mirrors and have a good hard look at ourselves, and perhaps we can learn to make ourselves much more like Sydney or Brisbane.

Give me strength...

[Bumpfoh]

Quote:

As for Etihad, I will go out on a limb and guess that they are flying to Sydney only because they need to get their aircraft maintained by Qantas, and that is the only place they can do it.


What makes you say that? If it's a B777 then there are many ports in AUS that can handle/maintain that type and not only QF!:ok:

[Guptar]

Vh-Cheerup.

Your conterarguement is exactly what I;m talking about, play the ball not the man. i'll address each point in turn. For that matter I have been living in Melbourne for the last 10 months.

To add some balance I'll add some highligts.

Vic markets, best of its type in Oz and probably the world. Prices are fantastically low andthe qualirt, especially for meat are simply unbeatable. I shop there every 3 weeks.
Trams, simply the best tram network in the world. Nothing comes even close and I have ridden most of the tram networks in the world.

Docklands stadium, best indoor arena in Oz and competative with anything the US has to offer. Indoor cricket on steriods.

Docklands itself will be fantastic once its all complete, same goes for the new Martha Cove Marina developement down on the penisular. Was very impressed.

Apart from the road markings in the city whih I find confusing and sometimes indecipherable (why cant Oz have a uniform road marking protocol), the Citylink, ringroad system is fantastic, and once the missing links on the peninsular and round Caroline Springs etc, Melbourne will have the best highway system of any city in Oz.

Aviation, Melbourne is the hub of GA in Oz, more airports, more training, more of everything. Puts Sydney and other cities to shame. Moorabbin, Essendon, Point Cook, Avalon, Tyabb, Turaden(spelling?), Wallan, Bachus Marsh and countless other airfields. Sydney had Bankstown and Camden. Both are dying a slow death.

"Sorry, how much should the City of Melbourne be paying to assure the quality of its asphalt matches that of Sydney?"

Well the No 2 city in the southern hemisphere should have the budget to tart up the streets in the CBD. Its amazing how a nice footpath, some decent lighting can rejuvinatea precinst and attract people back to it at night.

"Try retuning your radio to Jon Faine on ABC774. He's the most feared interviewer by politicians of all ilks".
Good point, never heared of him, so will listen in tomorrow and see how he is.

"Wonder why Melbourne got the Commonwealth Games, World Swimming Championships, Australian Open Tennis, Grand Prix, etc, etc..."

What about the 2000 OLYMPICS??
"One AFL team to a city of 4M+ people. No wonder they sell out!"

Same can be said about Melbourne and the Storm. Melbourne is 3+ million people, yet they get a paltry 8,000 to a home game.

"Welcome to competition in the nation's sporting capital. NRL just is not that popular here yet".

Thats precisely what I'm getting at, tried getting any Melbournites to watch an NRL game such as the State of Origin, and the Grand final. Flatmates wanted to watch a1956 black and white rerun instead, moreso, of 50 people I asked if they watched the NRL GF telecast...........none, , nada zip. None even knoew who was playing or what the score was. Simply no one was interested.

In Sydney, the AFL competition is immensely popular, as was the grand final,I watch it religiously every year. 6-8 pages of AFL coverage in the Sydney papers, 10 pages around finals time. Last year Sydney went nuts over the Swans....tho its allways been the"trendy fashionable" thing to be a swans member. Red and white streamers all over suburbs, didnt see any of that down here for the storm. Like I said, no one down here cares about the Storm.

"You're right, all of us who have chosen to live in Melbourne should go into the Hall of Mirrors and have a good hard look at ourselves, and perhaps we can learn to make ourselves much more like Sydney or Brisbane".
Perhaps your right. Melbourne has the land, the space, the relatively easy terrain to plan and build a city and more importantly expand...its mostly flat. Affordability is a major bonus, a block of land I looked at in Craigieburn for $110,000 would cost $300K+ in Sydney.

If only Melbourne would drop the insecutity complex it has over Sydney, and focus its energy on getting things right, it has the potential to be the best city in Oz.

Lastly, the next person who says Castlemane in that faux American accent like they say grass is going to wear my projectile vomit. Its Castlemane, the A said just like we in Oz say grass. The other pronounciation is just a pretenteous wank.

[gassed budgie]

This would have to rate as one of the funniest and most entertaining threads I've seen on pprune for some time. It's got everything. Name calling, tittle tattling, sex, humour, threats of voilence and other nasty things, inuendo, outright rudeness, martains (Marvin says to say Hello), smartarse comebacks. LMFAO.
Melbourne, Sydaney, Brisbane ? First thing I do when I venture north of the Murray and make contact with the bogans from Boganville is to whip out the ruler and measure how far their eyes are apart. Anything less than the standard measurement could mean trouble. And anytime you venture past Boggabilla further to the north, once you've finished with the ruler don't forget to check how red their neck is!

[Buster Hyman]

Ahh, but Melbourne had the Olympics in 1956...when they were fashionable!;)

I always thought that if the VFL/AFL thought it good & proper to foist the Swans on SYD, then the decent thing to do is support the Storm...which I do. Even if it's the dumbest game on the planet, its only fair.:ok:

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

I don't mean to stir things up but this is all getting a bit out of hand. We have mention of sydney, melbourne and brisvegas. What about the other 3rd of Australia.
We here in Perth are pretty much keeping the rest of the country alive with our resources. While we may not have the showcase events like mardi gras and the gran prix, we do rule the afl and we are the centre of GA in Oz. What with training and mining charter.
We have a great big park and a very picturesque river in the centre of our city. We had pretty planes fly through pylons there this year. Low crime rates and we don't shoot each other that often. Beaches are very nice and you can swim in them without freezing or getting bashed for having one eyebrow. Plenty of work too, so if you're on the dole you have no excuse and we can bag you with good justification.
So you can whine all you like about whether Melb beats Syd in the Big D**k stakes but if you get a chance come across our way and see how the better half lives.:E
waiting, waiting.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Perth isn't even in Australia...is It?

:E

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

We'd rather it wasn't coz that way we'd be richer and not have to subsidise our poorer cousins:E

[Awol57]

Hehe WOG I was going to chuck something along those lines earlier but was too scared of getting smashed!

Go Perth - even though I currently reside in Melbourne.

[Buster Hyman]

F**K off Perth boy! This is an East coast issue!


;)


Only kidding, join in the fun!:ok:

[lowerlobe]

And now we are waiting for the spokesperson from FNQ to appear :E

[Fliegenmong]

Aaaah Queensland... Beautiful one day.....Perfect the next. Why was it filled with bogans?
Sydneysiders. If Doyles is your idea of a "top feed" time to visit Tassie or Melbourne or even Brissy. Talkabout a letdown!
bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbzz zzzzzz

It's only full of Bogans because of all the Melbournians that move up here and that is just the point.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

I'm not spokesman FNQ - that would be the Townsville refueller :8 - I'm SEQ:ok:

[VH-Cheer Up]

Guptar

Sometimes the man makes himself the ball.

I somehow doubt direct international capacity levels YMMLare linked in any way to attendances at Storm games. There is a long history of AFL support in Melbourne, and the AFL has simply done a better marketing job in Sydney than the NRL has done in Melbourne. And for longer.

Fellow threadwatchers will be relieved to hear I don't have time to go through each of your points. I understand this thread is not simply a MEL vs SYD thing, it's become more about a conspiracy theory that YSSY is being favoured over YMML or any other primary airports. And that QF is Sydney-centric, and prefers to hub pax via Sydney and make them connect via domestic to other capitals.

Well, good on them. When they and all the other airlines get that Melbourne business people want to fly internationally direct to YMML they will start to behave like a customer-driven company.

If there wasn't a federally-approved and maintained artificial cap on capacity on key routes there would be more competition and that would likely be beneficial for the punters.

Roll on Virgin Atlantic flying the Pacific. They've done a great job of improving standards of service across the Atlantic and the Pacific needs the same kind of treatment. KLAX-YMML direct would be a good thing.

Melbourne business people watch, wait and hope.

[Duff Man]

Etihad Airways to launch flights to Sydney
29-01-2007
Abu Dhabi: Etihad Airways, the National Airline of the United Arab Emirates, will begin non-stop flights from Abu Dhabi to Sydney, Australia on March 26, 2007.
The new three-times-a-week service will be flown by a three-class Airbus A340-500 aircraft.
Flight frequency will increase to a daily operation from June 29.
Etihad Airways chief executive James Hogan, said: “I am very optimistic that the new Sydney service will boost the development of commerce and tourism between Australia and the UAE’s capital, Abu Dhabi.”
“As well as direct traffic between these two great cities, we are aiming to attract connecting passengers from throughout the Middle East, and from Europe, who are looking to travel via Abu Dhabi to Sydney for business and holidays.”
Etihad’s Sydney route will also provide Australian business and leisure travellers with easy access to the Middle East region, as well as key international cities across Europe with swift connections through Abu Dhabi to a choice of 47 destinations currently served by the airline.
The Ambassador of Australia to the UAE, Jeremy Bruer, said: “I am delighted that Etihad has shown a huge vote of confidence in Australia by starting flights to and from Abu Dhabi. Australian travellers can now enjoy direct access to one of the most important locations in the Middle East on one of the world’s most exciting new airlines.”
Sydney will be Etihad Airways’ fifth destination in the Asia-Pacific region, joining Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Manila and Jakarta.
Flight Information
From March 26, Etihad’s flight EY450 will initially operate Monday, Wednesday, Friday, departing Abu Dhabi International Airport at 10.10 am, arriving Sydney International Airport 6.15 am the following day. The return service EY451 departs Sydney each Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday at 3.20 pm, arriving Abu Dhabi 0.10 am. All times are local.
The Airbus A340-500 aircraft serving the route will be configured in three classes of travel; 12 in Diamond, 28 in Pearl and 200 in Coral.
There's no conspiracy. It's simply because SYD is the hub of international business in Australia and has by far the largest expat community.
As for leisure travel, people travelling to England visit London not Liverpool, those going to the US visit New York not Chicago, to Japan it's Tokyo ahead of Okinawa, ... you get the idea?

[Buster Hyman]

London, New York, Tokyo...I'm beginning to see your point. They're all ****holes & once you're there, you look for a nicer place to visit.

[Sunfish]

Duffy, you are confusing cause and effect.

There's no conspiracy. It's simply because SYD is the hub of international business in Australia and has by far the largest expat community.

Expats settle where they can get the fastest direct travel to their home base! That is my point:ugh:

[lowerlobe]

Quote from Gilligan... "Expats settle where they can get the fastest direct travel to their home base! That is my point"


Expats settle where they get the most money and conditions.I can just imagine someone saying to a potential employer "look I appreciate your offer of $4 million a year but I don't want the job unless I can fly direct to melbourne once a year.....I'm not going to tolerate anything less"..


Sunshine see my definition of a tosser and add "someone who could not lie straight in bed"

[VH-Cheer Up]

Lowerlobe
Expats settle where they get the most money and conditions.I can just imagine someone saying to a potential employer "look I appreciate your offer of $4 million a year but I don't want the job unless I can fly direct to melbourne once a year.....I'm not going to tolerate anything less"..

Your optimism is admirable. Unfortunately, that's where it stops.

Alas, too many airlines are simply not being sustained by $4M p.a. ex-pats.

There would how many of these high-rollers in the Greater Sydney area, do you reckon?

More likely someone on $4M p.a. gets ferried around in the company GV or Global Express.

Unless their company happens to be an airline, that is.

VHCU

[Animalclub]

As Etihad's James Hogan is a Melbourne man why didn't he ask for both Sydney and Melbourne... or maybe he knows something that we don't!!!

Ever since the early 1970's the majority of tourists visiting Australia want to see/visit the Opera House, Ayers Rock (I'm getting on in years!) and the Barrier Reef... and do it in one day. Australia is an island therefore it is a small place!!! This was the thinking that I encountered with Travel Agents/Tour Wholesalers in the USA in those days. I don't think their thinking has changed much since then.

Melbourne never featured.

[lowerlobe]

VH-CU,
You missed my point.

Expats care only about getting the job they want because of the pay and conditions.This includes a number of things but my sarcasm I thought was obvious in that a direct flight home would not be on the list of many people or at the very most a minor consideration.

Then again if you like living in Melbourne and the Yacht club at Bonnydoon you might want anything.

[Buster Hyman]

As Etihad's James Hogan is a Melbourne man why didn't he ask for both Sydney and Melbourne... or maybe he knows something that we don't!!!

I love this thread! Now, I'm going to go tit for tat in the "stupid arguments" case if that's okay?

*Ahem*...They all fly to Sydney because there are so many....umm..."alternative lifestyle" types in airline management!

[Sunfish]

From "The AGE" Feb 2004

FRom a survey by the Economist Intelligence Unit:.

Melbourne has retained its position as the best city in the world to call home.
Often derided as Bleak City by Sydneysiders, Melbourne topped a survey of 130 cities, narrowly beating out the other four Australian capitals surveyed - because its weather rated the best.
Sydney lost ground because its crime rate was rated on a par with New York and London.

Mr Pandazopoulos said the award backed Victoria's record as the only Australian state in which international visitor rates grew for the past two years.
He said Melbourne was also a very affordable city, where people got value for money for great products, including top fashion and restaurants.
He said the government would continue to work hard to meet the balance of stimulating a vibrant economy and social standards to ensure Melbourne remained one of the world's best cities.
The London-based EIU assessed the level of hardship for expatriates in the 130 cities, using 12 factors including housing, education, recreational activities, health, climate and terrorism.

1= Melbourne
1= Vancouver
1= Vienna
4 Perth
5 Geneva
6= Adelaide
6= Brisbane
6= Copenhagen
6= Montreal
6= Oslo
6= Sydney
6= Zurich
13= Helsinki
13= Stockholm
13= Toronto
Others:
19= Auckland
19= Honolulu
28= Paris
45= London
51= Dublin
51= New York
57= Washington
64= Athens
75= Beijing
130 Port Moresby

[DirtyPierre]

FRom a survey by the Economist Intelligence Unit:.Melbourne topped a survey of 130 cities, narrowly beating out the other four Australian capitals surveyed - because its weather rated the best.


How intelligent is the Economist Intelligence Unit if Melbourne's weather is rated better than Brisbane or Sydney's?

Sunfish, you've got to be joking!

[lowerlobe]

Quote "Sydney lost ground because its crime rate was rated on a par with New York and London."

How many people have vict police shot in the last 12 months,how many gun related crimes have there been in vict?

Economist intelligence unit.....Now there is a contradiction in terms.
Mr Pandazopoulos said the award backed Victoria's record .....This would not have anything to do with Mexico being the 2nd or 3rd largest Greek city in the world would it.

And as DP has said best weather....and I thought Gilligan had a good sense of humour

Note also that the award ( probably voted on by penguins ..hence the weather aspect) was in 2004.....Get with the program Sunshine it is now 2007.

[404 Titan]

Let’s see,

The Age = Self serving piece of Melbourne toilet paper.
Economist Intelligence Unit = Unknown group based in Melbourne run by a bloke from Greece.
Melbourne = Greece’s third largest city.

Sunfish, if this guy and the people that were supposedly in this survey think the weather is better in Melbourne than Sydney or Brisbane, I got about 100 years of weather data that will prove them wrong.

Survey’s are like statistics. They can be manipulated by the way the questions are asked. Somehow I think this survey was conducted by a self interest group with an agenda to push and is therefore meaningless.

[Awol57]

I always thought it was a bit of a friendly rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne. How wrong I was. :rolleyes:

[Buster Hyman]

The Age = Self serving piece of Melbourne toilet paper.

Owned by Fairfax, based in Sydney...
Economist Intelligence Unit = Unknown group based in Melbourne run by a bloke from Greece.

The Economist Intelligence Unit is headquartered in London, with major regional centres in Hong Kong, Vienna and New York. (www.eiu.com (http://www.eiu.com)) Also has a Sydney office...
Melbourne = Greece’s third largest city
WTF this has to do with the overall thread I have no idea, however, the veiled inference to the EIU is pretty thin so...in light of some useless facts, here's a few from the ABS (http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/ProductsbyCatalogue/2C6D9DB6B7EF7C97CA2568A9001393D5?OpenDocument);

*Of all states and territories, Queensland recorded the largest net population gain due to net interstate migration (31,500 persons) in 2004-05, while New South Wales recorded the largest net loss (-25,700 persons).
*New South Wales and South Australia recorded the largest average net population losses due to interstate migration over the preceding ten years to 2004-05 (-19,400 and -2,900 persons per year respectively).
*The largest single interstate flow in 2004-05 was from New South Wales to Queensland (54,700 persons), while the largest net flow was a net gain for Queensland from New South Wales (20,400 persons).
*New South Wales recorded the largest net loss in the 20-34 age group of 6,900 persons, followed by South Australia with a net loss of 1,500 persons.
*New South Wales recorded the largest net loss for interstate movers aged 50 years and over of 3,900 persons.

Come on guys, try harder...I'm sure there's some stuff in there about Victoria!:rolleyes:

[lowerlobe]

Buster, I think as usual you forgot some of the salient facts…

It does not matter where the so called intelligence unit is based they said that melbournes weather was better than Sydney and Brisbane…What are they penguins?

Even most people in mel admit that the weather can suck at times …4 seasons in the one day….wearing a coat in December and the next day 50 people have heat stress...etc…..

The relation to the Greek issue is the name of the person in the report that Gillgan posted…I’ll give you a hint it ends in “oulos”…any idea what we are talking about in relation to the number of Greeks living in mel.
Is that enough about Melbourne for you..

Whatever the argument between Sydney/melbourne/Brisbane is I don't think anyone except for this so called intelligence unit has said that melbournes weather is better and that alone shoots down Gilligans post

[404 Titan]

Buster Hyman

You have got to loosen up a bit my friend. You are holding on too tight. My post had a lot of tong in cheek. By the way the Age may be owned by Fairfax but it is based in Melbourne, fact.

Those stats are quite frankly meaningless and I would argue in error. I lived in Queensland for over ten years and every second person I met that was living there came from Victoria. A very large proportion of them had come to Queensland via a stint in NSW so distorting the figures of the true migration from the south. You have only got to look at the proliferation of that strange code of football you play down there in Vic to realise the number of Victorians living in Queensland. It’s disturbing.

[Buster Hyman]

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gifhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gifhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gifAgain, you guys are the best...no really.
Those stats are quite frankly meaningless and I would argue in error.
Fair enough. I'm sure you could report those errors to the ABS for them to correct.
I lived in Queensland for over ten years and every second person I met that was living there came from Victoria.
Screw the census, we'll ask the mighty Titan next time!:ok: Okay, I'll "loosen up" if you start typing with both hands...deal?

Lowerlobe. It's all relevant really. I kinda like the fact that the weather here is changeable. Besides, I look good in a trench coat. Anyway, we don't get as much rain as Sydney...I won't quote a source for that because even Australian standards aren't good enough for you blokes. I'm sure you'd come back with "Everyone I talk to says..."etc, etc, etchttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/schlafen/sleeping-smiley-012.gif

"oulos" is Greek is it? Well there you go...no wonder the centre of your Universe is very close to you.:rolleyes: We think of them as Australians with Greek heritage...you should try thinking like that next time you're down at Cronulla...:eek: :ouch:

[lowerlobe]

Buster,

Yep you have it right..someone with greek heritage telling us that mel is a better place to live…yep no conflict of interest or bias with that one …NOOOOOOOO

It is also only someone in Mel telling us that the weather there is preferable to Sydney or Brisbane. So if you are going to lump yourself in with Gilligan and the intelligence unit in London then you can take the consequences to your credibility.

Then again I should have realised anyone living in LHR even someone with Greek heritage would think that the weather in mel is good.Even Wellington’s weather would seem good compared to the old dart.

Here is a challenge for you Gilligan and Buster,list the outdoor tourist attractions that mel has to offer.:rolleyes:

:hmm: .............

[404 Titan]

Screw the census, we'll ask the mighty Titan next time!
So you actually fill out your Census form truthfully? It’s none of the governments god dam business and a great number of Australians would agree with me.

[Buster Hyman]

I bow to your incredible impartiality in the Pro-Sydney camp there Lowerlobe...simply outstanding.:rolleyes: You seem to have a monopoly on irony too.;)

I can only tell you what I like about the weather. If I claimed that 99% of the thousands of people I've personally spoken too agree with me...well, I'd probably be on your side of the argument...at least, that's where a lot of those "facts" seem to eminate from. Actually, while I think of it, I'll just pop out & see if there's any hail damage on my car......


....nope! The duco's all good!

Nice challenge. Whats the point? I've provided figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics and they've been refuted as rubbish. I'll provide you with a website (http://www.melbourne-attractions.com/) that lists them if you could be bothered, but I seriously doubt it. I guess you guys are the kinds of people that can't admit defeat. Can't accept a valid, opposing point of view & really, that's all this is. I enjoy fishing though...

So you actually fill out your Census form truthfully? It’s none of the governments god dam business...
So, what did you put on yours? Moved to New Zealand? Pray to Jedi Knights? Yep, that's reeeeal responsible of you Titan. :rolleyes: Okay, at least you can admit to a history of lying.

a great number of Australians would agree with me.
...no, don't tell me...99% of the people you've spoken to? BWAHAHAHAhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gifhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gifhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif

Seriously...you guys are the best!:ok:

[OCCR]

Buster ohhhh Buster......

you can quote statistics as much as you like, say what you want but it will never change the fact and I mean the fact that melbourne is a dump and everyone knows it and you simply cannot admit to it!

The place is.......................................................... ...:}

[Angle of Attack]

Whats with all the fuss? I am not saying one particular place is the best to live, I reckon about half the country is great! Get a map and draw a straight line from Perth to Brisbane. If you live on or north of this line its God's country and a bloody ripper of a place. If you live south of the line... well sorry you suck and lost out big time,.. you live in a $hithole haha ;) :ok:

[lowerlobe]

Come on Buster it's only a friendly challenge...

List the tourist attractions in Melbourne that overseas visitors would like to see and that they would tell their friends about when they get home.Surely you can name some!!!!

[woftam]

When they decide to give the world an enema,guess where they will stick the hose in?
M--b--r-e
:}
Flack jacket ON!!! :oh:

[Buster Hyman]

I provided a link lowerlobe. Did you have a look? Besides...far too many to type!;)

you live in a $hithole haha
Well, that was enlightening...:hmm:...thanks for your input.:ok:

you can quote statistics as much as you like, say what you want but it will never change the fact and I mean the fact
:rolleyes: Dear oh dear.... Have a re-read of some of lowerlobes stuff guys, now that's how to insult intelligently. Go practice on your little brother before posting!:ok: (Free handy hint, just for you!)

[cartexchange]

Buster I'm waiting for the information as well!
Please list all sight seeing that exists in MEL.

Something that would leave an impresssion (ok here we go with the comments)

[Sunfish]

Start with the Penguin parade, then Healesville sanctuary, then the Twelve Apostles and the great ocean road. The MCG Museum.

What has Sydney got? Funnel web spiders, sharks, the block at Redfern, Oxford street gays and a few beaches. Unless you live near the harbour or a beach, Sydney is simply awful suburbia.

Tell me is there still that little park full of drunken Abbos on the way into the city from the airport?

[lowerlobe]

Now Now Now Gilligan,this is not Bonnydoon Yacht club,bait and tackle shop.

If you want to micturate you will have to do it elsewhere!

I like the one about the MCG museum....you have got to be kidding me and by the way you guys are down to 11 Apostles but who is counting.

Now I was asking about attractions in Melbourne not Victoria so try and focus on the question Gilligan..stay on the same page as the rest of us.

[Buster Hyman]

The fact that none of you seem to have followed the link I provided makes me wonder if you are taking this seriously!:p

[VH-Cheer Up]

VH-CU,
You missed my point.
Expats care only about getting the job they want because of the pay and conditions.This includes a number of things but my sarcasm I thought was obvious in that a direct flight home would not be on the list of many people or at the very most a minor consideration.
Then again if you like living in Melbourne and the Yacht club at Bonnydoon you might want anything.

Mate, I'm not a yachtie, and I've never been to Bonnydoon. Is that where you're holding your Mardi Gras this year?

BTW, what's your source on the numbers of ex-pats? Apart from talking to your friends - I mean something other people might consider a bit more authoritative.

[Buster Hyman]

I wouldn't bother VH-CU...that is their only source of "facts".:rolleyes:

[Duff Man]

DIC (http://www.immigration.gov.au/media/statistics/index.htm) have a heap of stats. These are federal govt stats, not biased private sector "Research". Example, this report (http://www.immigration.gov.au/media/publications/pdf/457s_survey_report.pdf) into 457 temporary business visa holders shows just over 50% reside in Sydney, 20% in Melbourne. 60% of these 'expats' have their travel paid for by their employer.

And yes, SYD-bashers, there is an ugly belt of mc-mansion-filled suburbia here (like all capital cities), an assortment of creepy wildlife, and more than the average share of dykes and poofs (like the one sitting next to you in the cockpit, perhaps?). I've lived in Melbourne - great city too: for residents; and then there's its world class comedy festival - and Brisbane - a little small when I was there and the climate doesn't agree but otherwise a heap of fun.

Saw "Happy Feet" with the kids a few weeks ago and wondered why for an Australian made film about Penguins, the one that makes it north to the next continent didn't stumble up at the nightly fairy parade.

[Buster Hyman]

(Psst! Duff Man. Don't mention the Penguin parade...its not part of the Melbourne experience.) Just like the rest of Australia has nothing to do with Sydney...we're all just hanging off their crumbs, or so we're lead to believe!;)

[amos2]

AW! C,mon, Lobe, Titan and more than a few others...

can't you see our mate Buster is taking you all for a ride!!??

STREWTH!... are you really all that serious about a send up thread?

Besides, he's an Essendon supporter... and we Bomber blokes just love taking the P#ss out of you turkeys!

(onya, Buster!) :ok: :ok:

[Buster Hyman]

Welcome Amos!

Come on in, the gullability's juuuust right! The more the merrier I say!:E:ok:

(Big year for the Bombers...BIG year!)

[Mr.Buzzy]

Ya Whatever!

Go Pies!

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zz

[priapism]

Buzzy ,

I think that belongs in the bogun thread !

[lowerlobe]

Actually I could not care less about whether melbourne is better or not.This is or was about a goose that uses that excuse to have a go at QF.

justapplhere...Just to reply to your juvenile post to my juvenile post , how many visitors to Australia really want to visit a cricket museum?

I realise if you like cricket it is a must see but to some of us cricket is like watching paint dry.

The only other point to this obvious wind up is the clown that said the weather in Melbourne is better than Sydney or Brisvegas.Whatever the points and attractions Mel has to offer it's weather is not one of them and so it's potential to be a wind up was good.

[Buster Hyman]

Actually I could not care less about whether melbourne is better or not
Riiiiight.....it was all a dream was it?;)

I realise if you like cricket it is a must see but to some of us cricket is like watching paint dry
And everyone that visits that butt ugly Opera house is an Opera lover huh? To each his own...glad you can see that now.

PS. Seeing "we're" in a concilliatory mood, I must admit to the significant cultural history that the Sydney Opera House represents to this fine nation. I mean, where else would be a suitable venue for the Australian Idol final?......http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gifhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gifhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif

[twiggs]

Just to reply to your juvenile post to my juvenile post , how many visitors to Australia really want to visit a cricket museum?
I realise if you like cricket it is a must see but to some of us cricket is like watching paint dry.


I thought it was a museum for all sports, not just cricket, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

[lowerlobe]

oh no it's gilligans wife...Twiggs:bored:

Twiggs it would help if you tried to stay on the same page as everyone else..

Get with the program woman...here is the quote I referred to...

"PLEASE don't knock the Melbourne Cricket (CLUB) Museum at the MCG"

We are talking about cricket not softball.:E

[cartexchange]

Cricket great!!!
I can just see the hordes of Germans Japanese Italians Americans Chinese actually all Europeans (expect the Poms) All the Americas, actually most of the world just lining up to go and see the cricket museum!

Its only a few commonwealth countries that have anything to do with that hideous game.

Is that the best you can do!

As one of our pax stated the other day, the best part of MEL was the departure lounge!:rolleyes:

[Buster Hyman]

Only one this time cart? That's good then, especially since there's normally thousands of them complaining...we're on the right track then!:ok:

[twiggs]

Ok now that you have proved yourself to be so ignorant lowerlobe, here are the facts:

"The Australian Gallery of Sport and Olympic Museum, established in 1986 was demolished in 2003 as part of the recently-completed northern stand redevelopment project."

Now that the redevelopment has finished, the National Sports Museum will be replacing it.

"The National Sports Museum will house the Australian Gallery of Sport and Olympic Museum, the Sport Australia Hall of Fame, the Australian Cricket Hall of Fame, the Aussie Rules Exhibition and temporary exhibition areas addressing the sporting issues and events of the day. The schedule for completion is November, 2007."

Quotes are from the following article:
http://www.mcg.org.au/default.asp?pg=redevelopmentdisplay&articleid=2007

[priapism]

Lobe,
not wishing to enter the argument re city v city ,but few people outside of Melbourne know that the Melbourne Cricket Club is custodian of the MCG , therefore preside and run the place regardless of what sport is played there. This has been the case since Governor La Trobe granted them occupancy on what was then known as the police paddocks in 1853. In fact the inaugural NSW v VIC cricket match was hosted there in March 1856. Judging from the various, mostly petty comments on this ,forum hostilities between both state's inhabitants have continued since then !
Today, it is a magnificent stadium which has hosted many events such as The 1956 Olympics and last year's Commonwealth games. It is the home ground of several AFL clubs and was even used as a tent city to house visiting U.S. soldiers during the second world war. For many years after 1856it was used to host bicycle racing with huge crowds attending. Soccer has been played there since 1887 - again VIC v NSW. This was a 2 all draw. International soccer has been played featuring sides such as Brazil and the mighty Manchester United. International Lacrosse debued in 1907 . Davis Cup tennis was played there in 1912 and international Rugby League made it's debut in 1914. Athletics comps ranging from public schools to Olympics have been held there for around 130 years.
It has also hosted Papal tours, Royal visits , and concerts - 3 tenors , rolling stones, Billy Joel , Elton John , Paul Mc Cartney. U2, Madonna etc.
Although the museum does feature the best collection of various cricketing memorabilia I have seen it also houses a huge amount of memorabilia regarding the other events that have happened there. Since the recent renovation it really is a great place to visit and has expanded by virtue of items on permanent load from private collectors.

Although it is housed inside the member's area of the MCG , it is actually known as the Australian Gallery of Sport . For anyone who has spent a bit of their youth hitting, kicking or chasing various balls around - or have pedalled a bike in anger or ran , jumped , thrown , or even just loved watching such events this Gallery is pure gold .

My MCC membership is truly valued. Tours are booked out most of the time, from what I've seen it is a blend of locals, interstaters and International guests, particularly ouy English friends , though apparently the Canadians love it too- go figure?

I don't know ,or care where anyone lives , or what Airline flies into where or how often - I deal with things in my job that make such petty squabbles seem so insignificant . But NEVER malign my MCC! It has been kind to me over the years , as I have to it - time to wipe the tears away ,
Priapism

[Buster Hyman]

Aww priaprism...I reckon you're crying because a bottle hit you on the head during "the wave"!!!

;) :ok:

[lowerlobe]

G’Day priapism.

I’m not having a go at the MCG at all and understand it plays a big part in melbournes social calender.This initially was about a mis fit whom I call Gilligan and his fetish with QF .

My point with cricket is that it is one of those sports that you either like or fall asleep trying to watch.Personally I think it’s great to see an arena like the MCG which is used to it’s potential and I like having fun with guys like Buster.

My point with Mrs Gillgan....a Ms Twiggs was that I was talking about cricket with the referred quote being "PLEASE don't knock the Melbourne Cricket (CLUB) Museum at the MCG".Twiggs notice the word CRICKET...duohh

Somehow Ms Twiggs gets confused easily and misconstrued what we were discussing.Twiggs does that at times and then goes off an some other tangent and has a hissy fit.She kind of reminds me of some of our precious Bfirst crew.:}

[Freehills]

This is soooo cute! Bunch of convicts arguing which of their provincial towns is better! Talk abouts cocks crowing on dunghills...

Any fule no that the best cities in Australia are Hong Kong, Tokyo, Bangkok, Kuta. Hang on, they are not Australian you cry.

Exactly.

[Mr.Buzzy]

I hope that little vent helped you deal with the heat and asians!

bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z

[priapism]

Lobe,

Agreed. I find it a little amusing , bearing in mind I am straight , that certain people from the south malign the Sydney Mardi Gras when the best group in it by far are the MELBOURNE marching boys!

[lowerlobe]

Good one Priapism....Does anyone remember when in the day's of Joh it was illegal to congregate in groups of more than 4 in downtown BNE....don't look directly at the boy's in blue and pass the brown paper bag....SLOWLY...

[Buster Hyman]

Oh yeah Freehills? I bet you've got nothing like Redfern or Cronulla have ya?...HAVE YA??:}:ouch::suspect:

[cartexchange]

Buster!
Spoke to the one of the Chinese tour leader the other day gong to HKG ( they were from mainland china)
Once again during a lengthy conversation in the galley the feedback he received from his clients was quite favourable to Australia, the only negative comments were about your beloved MEL, not one in the group liked the place, they spent two days there and thought it was a waste of time.

HE said that this was a common complaint on all his tours and he was going to address it with his company!

Looks like you will be losing more people to that lovely paradise of yours.

"most livable city" yeah right.......for penguins maybe:ouch:

[Buster Hyman]

Well that's good! They don't spend much so no great loss.http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/hmm.gif

2 in 2 days...there may be a trend there...:rolleyes:...and Melbourne's the only place in the world they haven't enjoyed? Gosh.

[lowerlobe]

justapplhere.....

You can keep spouting stats like some politician with a stutter but the point is that no one in living memory except for you and the goose who wrote the report claims the weather in Mel is better than Sydney and Brisbane....

If Mel was soooooo good why then do so many people retire to NSW and Queensland? Give it a rest and come up with some other tact...if you can , talk to Buster he has a much better grasp than you ever will.

Now if that is the best you can do with my nickname then it's not me with the low IQ.

[Duff Man]

justapplhere,
I've bitten. The sort of wx that causes Melbourne to earn a reputation are...
Melbourne has 9 more rainy days per year than Sydney
Melbourne has 1.2 hours less sun per day than Sydney
Melbourne has 49 clear days per year to Sydney's 102
Melbourne has 45 more cloudy days each year than Sydney
Melbourne has 10 days below 2C, never that cold in Sydney
Melbourne gets over 40C more than once per year, Sydney less than once every three years.
Melbournians commute to work in an average 14C vs 17C in Sydney
source: BoM SYD (http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_066062.shtml) and MEL (http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_086071.shtml)

[Buster Hyman]

5 pages!

Well done to all our Sydney Brothers, Sisters, and...you know whats! I didn't think you could "maintain the rage" for this long. Time to kick back, trim the moustache (all of you) and enjoy a latte...you've earned it!:ok:

And you reckon WE have issues in Melbourne?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Chronic Snoozer]

Irrespective of the handbags at 10 paces going on between Sydneysiders and Melburnians, it is of interest to note that the Economist survey does specifically state the most 'liveable' cities, which does not translate to the most popular tourist destinations. (i.e. attractions) So the whole slagfest here is rather a waste of time. (I know you know that BH) Interestingly in the top 10 (12 because you can't split 6th place up) most liveable cities are,

1= Melbourne
1= Vancouver
1= Vienna
4 Perth
5 Geneva
6= Adelaide
6= Brisbane
6= Copenhagen
6= Montreal
6= Oslo
6= Sydney
6= Zurich

of which it is fantastic to see five Australian capitals. An argument for better international carrier service in itself perhaps. 'Build and they will come' so the saying goes. I can't but help feeling that if better service was provided to other capitals, tourist numbers would go up - not necessarily straight away, but how else does tourism grow if you don't offer to get people to the attractions?

Of the most popular traditional 'tourist' cities, well they languish quite a long way behind in the 'liveability' stakes:

19= Honolulu
28= Paris
45= London
51= Dublin
51= New York
57= Washington
75= Beijing
130 Port Moresby (yes, this is a red herring)

And as far as weather is concerned, my quick scan of the numbers revealed that Sydney is wetter and windier than Melbourne. So apart from Melbourne being a bit cooler, cloudier and a lot less humid, I think Duff Man is passing some Duff Gen. I for one like the fact that you can really use a full wardrobe living in Melbourne. Where else is a Santa Claus suit acceptable dress for a pub crawl?

[lowerlobe]

I remember when slipping in Mel once and it was a beautifull day when arriving at the hotel.What surprise me was that many of the commuters going to work had umbrella's.

I asked the driver was a storm forecast and he said no but in melbourne you can have every different season in the one day.

Sure enough when I woke up about midday it was blowing a gale and it was freezing and this was the first week in December.....Welcome to melbourne

[Buster Hyman]

Yeah, but at least our cars aren't full of dents Lobee...;)

[1DC]

This thread seems to be dying,as it is so important thought i would do some research.
Just been to Sydney(as a tourist) for a few days so made a few comparisons. Nice bridge better than Melbourne's.Took a trip to Manly, a bit like Williamstown.W has more history but M has a bit of surf on it's beach. W wins this one.Darling Harbour is nice similar to Melbourne's Southgate, probably better restaurants in the Southgate.Bigger casino at Melbourne. Nice harbour took a ferry to Paramatta. Melbourne can't compete on this one.Botanical gardens about the same.CBD similar. Mrs 1DC thinks the shopping is better in Sydney.Weather in Melbourne was better than Sydney's all the time we were there.
Asked an Aussie why the Queenslanders think all Aussies want to go and live there.He said it was a natural thing that had evolved,apparantly when an Aussie is ready to die he goes to Queensland.
Horror of horrors (to you airline people) came back on the train.A first class train ticket is about the same price as an airline ticket, better seat, lots of leg room and not full.If you can spare the 12 hours for the day journey it is worth doing.
Now what was this thread really about, oh yes, planes going to Sydney instead of Melbourne.How close to saturation is SYD? When LHR filled up all the regional flights of less than 70 passengers were priced out by the airport authority, more money in a 747.Propjets at LHR are as scarce as rocking horse sh1t. So will this happen at SYD, small airports in the UK can't get slots into LHR, will this happen to your regional services??
Finally, when Etihad, Qatar, JetAirways, Continental, Air Canada and Tiger Pacific start flying into MEL next year will that be ok..Well penultimate paragraph aside, this has been a bullsh1t thread so i can contribute as well can't i!!

[Buster Hyman]

It's alright 1DC, you can type bull**** in Dunnunda....especially when talking about SYD!;) :p :ouch: :suspect:

[Howard Hughes]

Yeah, but at least our cars aren't full of dents Lobee...
Thants not funny Buster, been here two months and my car became victim of a hailstorm on saturday, not quite the size of golfballs, but close enough to do some decent damage!:{

[Buster Hyman]

Blew down from Sydney I'd say Howard...geez, you've gotta watch 'em!!!:suspect: