CDMA Phones being replaced by Next G

[HotPete]

We pilots who fly to Woop-Woop know that:
CDMA phones usually work from the air
GSM phones usually dont work from the air.
In January 2008, CDMA will get the chop on the grounds that Next G will be equal to or better than CDMA in the bush.
Next G has been around for a few months now.
I'd like to hear from any pilots who have made the switch from CDMA to Next G as to how it works from the air.
No theory - actual experience please.
HP

[morno]

Not as good as the old CDMA network for use in the air. Overall coverage is mostly for the better (as in extra places you can get Next G, ie. a few of the mine sites around NW QLD), however I don't think it's got the range that CDMA has.

I have been able to make phone calls in the aircraft on my Next G phone, however because it's still basically a digital signal, you have to be close to the tower. Not like CDMA, where I had a phone call nearly all the way from Burketown to Mt Isa one day.

Text messages are harder to send, because the signal fades so easily, so don't expect to get them through every time!

But overall, I guess we're just going to have to make do with it. It's not a bad network. And if you're willing to spend the dollars, you can get the new wireless broadband and have something to do on your all day waits!

morno

[PilotHTR]

I recently did a trip from Tyabb to Perth (YTYA/YMIA/YCDU/YFRT/YKPG/YPJT) and back in a Lance between A005 (along the Bight) and A090/100
I have an i-mate JASJAM with Pocket PC/internet browser on NEXT-G. Coverage and reception was more extensive and better than CDMA ever was. Really only lost signal in the isolated areas such as between FRT and PKG.
Was especially good to be able to log onto BOM for TAFS and RADAR as there were significant CB's around for the trip home. Not quite weather radar, but useful. A few of my fellow travellers were converts after the trip.
Overall, well recommended (oh....also plays MP3's so great to plug into during the longer legs!)
CHeers

[DonC]

I can't use mine in the air because I can't find an adaptor for my headset.
It's a samsung A401 Any ideas?

[OpsNormal]

...I have an i-mate JASJAM with Pocket PC/internet browser on NEXT-G...

Can you explain that, but this time in English please?

Regards,

OpsN.;)

[scrambler]

donc try http://www.wagner.net.au/Home.htm

[PilotHTR]

OpsN,
Here it is -
i-mate = Brand Name
JASJAM = Model (no idea WTF JASJAM means though!!)
It's a smartphone. i.e. combination mobile phone and small PC running Microsoft Pocket Windows Operating system
NEXTG = next generation digital mobile network, according to Telstra, offering
the combined benefits of Digital and CDMA.
I'm no communications engineer, but I reckon that's pretty clear.
Cheers
BTW, look here - http://www.clubimate.com/

[OpsNormal]

Thank you for that guys. Living out here we don't always get to keep up with the latest technobabble.

Regards,

OpsN.;)

[4SPOOLED]

Im on Next G, was in Newman a while back watching foxtel on my phone.

Thumbs up

4S

[Andy_RR]

PilotHTR,

Do you like your JamJAR? Is it a cool thing or does it have issues? Does it successfully run as a PDA, or is it a bit on the slow side. What software can you run on it - any exciting things like route planning software etc?

Ta in advance!

A

[PilotHTR]

Andy RR,
Yep, I like it. Been very reliable so far.
Fine as a PDA. There is heaps of software for planning, W&B, etc available for it but I don't use any of it - I prefer command flight planner on PC.
Just to clarify, it's the newest model - JasJAM. All the models have silly names like jamjar and jamin etc but if you can get past that, they make a good unit.
Only caveat is that you can't get foxtel on the Windows based units, only on the dedicated phones.
Cheers
PHTR

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Coverage is getting better in the non-metro areas.
I've got a Hutchinsons '3' 3G plan and they want $5 per 10 MBytes on their network, or $1.65 per MByte when roaming on the Telstra network.
It doesn't require a lot of web page views to clock up a megabyte of traffic, and with the small low-resolution screens and tiny limited keypads it is not a quality experience as far as I am concerned.
If an internet-connected PC was not available then I'll use the 3G phone for a NAIPS briefing and/or weather pics.
Basically I think 3G is overpriced and overhyped., but I guess the telcos have to somehow recoup the hundreds of millions that they paid for their radio spectrum a few years ago.
and as for looking at jerky, low-res TV on a tiny screen. yetchhhhh.
and then there's the cute way that whomever you have signed up with will try very hard to make you use their (expensive) content.
Nah., I'm not a convert.

[Pseudonymn]

Is there a difference between 3G and Next G?
If so, what is it?

[BEACH KING]

Just my 2 cents worth,

I had a kyocera CDMA with MP3 player on it and works great. On a trip from here to YPJT (A bloody long trip) I had coverage probably 90% of the time in cruise, and the MP3 player into the DC X11 Headsets made the job easier and helpful with actual weather.
Then it fell out of my top pocket into a dish of petrol while cleaning wheel bearings, and that turned out not to be very good for it...

Being with Telstra, they tell me "no more CDMA, you must buy 3G" and talk me into Imate Jasjam. Sounded terrific with with broadband on the move, and (as mentioned above) is good for the BOM radar in the air. In reality in my neck of the woods, the thing drops out.. and often.. with no where near the service of the CDMA on the ground, but fairly similar in flight. I found it bulky and was starting to get used to it.. when it sh*t itself. A fault in the slide out keypad. Apparently this happens often with this unit and it has to be sent to SINGAPORE? to be repaired... no replacement while you wait!!

Just then the CDMA phone (the petrol soaked one) which I gave to my 6 year old son for a toy, suddenly sprang back to life, and after many tears and unforfillable promises was extracated and reconnected with Telstra.

So where I am, my 3G experience has not been good, but that may be due to:
1. my handset choice
2. my location
3. my provider

Ask around before you buy. I am sure many newer types of 3G handsets will be coming available. As far as I know CDMA is going to be around till late 2008.

[scrambler]

B-K
Try dropping your new device in petrol / water etc and see if it revives itself.

Work is that CDMA won't be shut down until all subscribers have left it.

Could be some good deals at the end to slide those still with CDMA phones over to the newer networks.

[BEACH KING]

Thanks Scrambler

I wish I had thought of that before I sent it back to Telstra!

[Mainframe]

Hotpete

Firstly, CDMA, as we have at present, is going to be disconnected in 2008.
It has been a brilliant system, with excellent inflight reception,
and no bursts of electrical noise and interference that GSM needs to refresh its cellular connection.

The coverage has been excellent in the bush and the top end because every community with a population of more than 500
was eligible for its own cell under the Govt TSI program.

CDMA is growing and expanding in NZ, USA, Sth Africa, however,
Telstra has committed to the next level of CDMA, namely 850 WCDMA, named by them as "NextG".

850 WCDMA has similar propogation characteristics to CDMA, with a slightly improved on the ground range,
CDMA has a nominal 62 km range, 850 WCDMA (NextG) has 84 km.

For Telstra, the economics are good, some 80% of the CDMA hardware is retained and reused.

On the downside, as with the introduction of CDMA, Telstra, for reasons of its own,
declined to partner with Nokia, and distanced themselves from users of the market leader.

Yes, they've done it again, no Nokia yet, but its coming.

I delayed my move to CDMA until Nokia joined the game with the excellent 6385 CDMA phone,
which I retained until I dropped it and saw it run over by the fuel truck.

I then replaced it with the brilliant and fully featured 6255, complete with in flight Wx radar for all BoM sites.

I am again holding out until Nokia joins the party.

Despite the il informed comments by Telstra shop employees, Nokia has Next G compliant phones,
and the Cingular network in the states has Nokia 850 WCDMA.

Whisper on the street here is that Nokia should join late February with their excellent N series.

Right now, the only stand out phone on 850 WCDMA (NextG) is the Motorola Maxxr V6, which is giving reasonable performance.

Most of the NextG handsets are capable of auto band selecting,
i.e. they can access 850 Wcdma, 1900 Wcdma / GSM and 2100 Wcdma / GSM, the more widely known 3G network.

A friend of mine regularly visits all remote communities across the topend, East and West.

He will be off on his quarterly trip this time with a Samsung NextG handset,
and will be able to report back on the CDMA vs 850 Wcdma coverage on a before and after basis.

Personally, I will wait until Nokia enters the market here, which they will.

in the meantime, google "Cingular" and "850 CDMA" for information that Telstra shops cant give you.

[lowlite]

Pseudonymn,
Two main differences between Next G (3G 850) and 3G as far as a consumer is concerned.
1. Next G has far better coverage than the exisiting 3G network. (refer to telstra website for maps and comparisons)
2. Data speed. current data transfer speed on the Next G network can be up to 1.5 Mbps (Mega bits per second) with the intention of the network being capable of 14 Mbps by the end of the year. 3G has a speed of 30 to 40 kbps(Kilo bits per second) Cdma network speed peaks at 144 kbps or around 400 to 700 kbps with EVDO (Evolution Data Only) reception mainly in metro areas.
Mainframe,
Telstra put all their phones through testing before they will allow them to enter the market. (How some of them make it through is beyond me). However Nokia have submitted two Next G phones both of which have been rejected by Telstra (reason unknown). Lets hope they come up with the goods soon.

[HotPete]

PilotHTR
Is your JASJAM a phone as well as a pocket PC?

[Jamair]

After several months of Telstra ringing me and literally begging me to dice the old faithful CDMA for a new Next G, I finally relented when they said the magic word - 'FREE'.

They gave me a LG TU500 3G with all the usual stuff (bluetooth, camera, video, MP3 / MP4) which also comes with a connection kit (USB or Bluetooth) for the PC / laptop, all gratis on my existing $30/mth plan.

So far it has worked quite well; signal has ben good wherever the CDMA was good, and in some cases better. In places where I can't connect my laptop to th wireless broadband system, I can connect via bluetooth and dialup through 3G. It can also get all the extra services previously mentioned (Wx, mail, browser etc) but I can't be bothered rooting around with it.

There is also an expansion port to allow another 1GB card for serious MP3 / MP4 affectionados - the thing plugs straight in to most contemporary headsets.

All in all - pretty good.:ok:

[transonic dragon]

Yep, NextG working superbly wherever I fly. As good or better coverage than CDMA, and with a generally clearer conversation.

Strangely enough, I sometimes get a better signal in a remote area than in an urban one. Apparently something to do with fewer users = better signal strength. Could be wrong, but that's my 2c worth.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Question for Mainframe,

The Next G phone are sim equipped and i noticed mention of tri and quad band.

If i get a quad band with world roam, it should infact work world wide right ?.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Why this fascination for Nokia?

I have recently bought a Motorola RAZR V3i after being an exclusive Nokia user since god knows when. It's the best mobile phone I have ever had by a LONG way....especially, but not exclusively, because it is so easy to carry around without pouches etc.

[remofo]

I haven't used NextG in the bush yet but it is flawless for checking TAFs & Metars along the NSW coast.
As far as CDMA goes, I have used my laptop to check weather at 10,000 ft over the Simpson Desert. It's not so good at lower altitudes in remote areas.
It'll be interesting to if NextG can match CDMA out there...I don't see why not. Next flight to YAYE, I'll do a comparison.

[lowlite]

Hi Rock thrower,

Don't mean to cut mainframe's grass.

Quad banded phones will work on the following frequencies, WCDMA 850/ UMTS 2100, GSM 900/1800/1900. tri banded phones generally work on GSM 900/ 1800/ 1900. The 3G network is the UMTS 2100 and nextG is WCDMA 850. As far as world roaming is concerned you need to check that the handset you have or intend to get will operate in the country you intend on using it in. some Asian countries in particular do not use a frequency that we have here in Oz. I would suggest looking at your carriers website or the maker of the hanset's for further info.

Cheers.:ok:

[White and Fluffy]

Hi,

I noticed that Nokia has finally released a NextG capable phone. I think it is the 6120. Has anyone had any experience with with this phone in regards to use, reception, durability, functionality, MET, email, web, etc? Has anyone taken them into the boonies and how did they compare with CDMA?

Thanks,
W&F

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

W & F

I have been holding out for a NExt G Nokia and was about to buy this new one. Our phone consultant warned me against it. Story goes it has failed Telstra's tests a couple of times becasue its does not work well in the boonies, but they decided to release it anyway. Not in the same league as CDMA.

I was advised NOT to buy one.

I see the date for shutdown of CDMA has been put back.

Dr:cool:

[Mainframe]

FTDK, W & F, etc

sorry for the absence from the forums, been busy with some ethnic cleansing of you know what.

Next G.

The Nokia 6120 Classic Next G phone works well.

I have retired my Nokia 6255 Cdma phone, a brilliant piece of technology,
and am now using my new Nokia 6120 Classic.

It works everywhere that the 6255 did, and in some cases, better.

Note that myself and other users have experienced increasingly degraded CDMA performance in the last year, as Telstra phase in Next G.

Some of this is due to sharing hardware, some is possibly intentional degradation to encourage CDMA users to move on,

and to satisfy the Communications Minister (Helen Coonan?) that Next G is yielding equivalent or better coverage.

My only problem at present is adapting my mobile phone intefaces to work with the 2.5mm 4 pole Nokia audio connector.
I am working with David Clark to get my phone interface operating on my DC X11's.

I also have a Safety Cell phone adaptor and when I resolve the audio connections for the DC X11's,
I should then be able to fabricate an adaptor for both.

My main inflight phone useage is:

1. AWIS terminal Wx (see the BOM site for all the phone numbers, you'd be amazed by the number of Airports)

Most pilots, given the number of inflight requests for metars, dont seem to know they can simply phone an AWIS site for the particular port.

2. Wet season real time animated radar of destinations and alternates to help me build a picture of problem areas.

3. Contacting flightwatch during difficult HF reception times, to report taxying, or to cancel SAR.

4. Emergency comms in case of radio failure, a lot of charts now have phone numbers listed in case of comms failure.

As for the Nokia not suitable for rural areas rumour,
try to remember that Bright Star, Telstra's handset middlemen,
have a vested interest in peddling such master pieces as ZTE etc.

Telstra didn't really want to deal with Nokia, but their customer base, particularly CDMA, have voted.

By sheer co incidence, Sol has friends in Bright Star.

In summary, yes, the 6120 Classic works, I waited and now use one.

MF p.s. FTDK, check your PMs

[scrambler]

Mainframe. For adaptors for Nokia try this site

http://www.cellink.com.au/products/index.php?manufacturers_id=6%3DHandsfree%20-%20Portable&sort=3a&page=1&osCsid=eef73c1fafbae46326649da2418ba210

You will be looking for AHF 2.5 mm socket adaptor.

I am not sure how it will go with your phone, I got one for my Nokia CDMA no poblems, works well with the DC X11

[Mainframe]

Scrambler,

thanks, had no problems using the 2.5mm audio socket on the Nokia 6255,

and the "Pop Port" (Tm) connector also works fine.

What the issue is, the latest Nokia phones, N series, Symbian 60 smart phones etc, now use a 4 contact 2.5 mm plug to allow for Stereo, and a microphone.

The Nokia 6255 and earlier phones were Mono, and able to use 3 contact 2.5mm plugs.

Some Nokia handsfree headsets started`to use a 4 contact 2.5mm plug, giving audio, mic and push to answer etc.

Right now I'm adapting a 4 pin plug off an old handsfree earpiece to inteface with a 3 contact 2.5mm socket, when thats working, problem solved, and a quick wiring instruction will be posted.

For Motorola and Samsung Next G users, there is already a mini USB to 3.5mm adaptor available off the shelf, see the DC X11 website for supplier links.