Qf2711 - 20jan Meldpo

[Eastwest Loco]

Here is an interesting one for you all to ponder.
It would appear QF2711 last Saturday departed MEL with a slight oversight. Cargo was loaded but the baggage was not.
The weather here was not great but ceiling was fine and I would not have thought any more than a holding requirement was on DPO.
Passengers were told that the baggage was not loaded by error. I had several clients on the aeroplane.
My question is assuming 20 passengers and 300kgs or so of baggage missing from the load and trim did this constitute a potential problem? The rear locker is at the most critical point of the load aft and has a great effect on the trim.
I have never trimmed a DH8, only Twotters and F27s at the smaller end of the scale but assume the DH8 is as sensitive at least.
The flight was projected in block time with no obvious dramas which is great, but that is one hell of an oversight.
How did this happen?
Not good on the part of the load controller to not check the locker before closure.
The ladies and gentlemen that work with them flying the aeroplane and the SLF deserve a little due dilligence.
Best all.
EWL

[missing link]

I was one of the operating crew on that flight, DPO,LT both req'd alternates and ML return was carried, Punters are often told the same thing by ground staff either because they don't know the facts or are too slack to find out. We were aware of the load situation and the trim sheet was accurate. This is a common occurance at this time of year..... We need 400's. The passengers should have been advised before boarding but the ground staff don't want the agro - so leave it to the poor FA's to pass on the bad news..................That is certainly not fair on them to cop agro for 55 mins in an enclosed cabin. By the way if you are so knowledgable about the weather maybe a look at the TTF's TAF's and metars would have given you a clue....I think not.;)

[Eastwest Loco]

Thank you missing link. I am very pleased to hear the load sheet was accurate to the actual load but nor pleased from the PR point of view that the clients were wrongly advised. The truth may not be palatable but saves damage to the airline in the long run. Talking crap sprays a nasty impression to anyone who has any idea about aeroplane operations.
I will not fly out of Tassie on anyone but QF link, so thank you for restoring my faith. LCCs are not for me. I am too old and deal with too many of the rock apes that we now book on them to ride with them.
I do however make sure I am seated near the C of G as I have a fat arse.

As for METARS etc, no - I am not knowledgeable but have been around aviation here long enough to have a fair idea if we should have coaches on standby for a diversion. It is not that hard once you know the signs but in those far off days there was actually a tower at DPO with staff who could look out and give an accurate interpretation.

Horses for courses. You fly 'em - I fill 'em. I defer to your skill and knowledge level with no qualms.
Best regards
EWL

[Tagneah]

By the way if you are so knowledgable about the weather maybe a look at the TTF's TAF's and metars would have given you a clue....I think not.
You're wasted in Dash's. You really should be in the left of the 400 (747 I mean) with that kinda attitude.........

[Eastwest Loco]

Tagneah

I stuck my chin out and it deserved to be clobbered.

Serves me right. The last thing I want to do is damage my "airline of choice" but do reserve potting rights at senior management.

Best

EWL

[B A Lert]

..... DPO,LT both req'd alternates and ML return was carried.....

Was Hobart available? If so, wouldn't it be better to have carried that instead of return ML?

[Captahab]

So let me get this right, they leave the pax baggage and take the freight because they get paid to carry that, yes, thats good customer service.

Keep it up please (saves heaps on advertising for the opposition)

Luv it

Ahab :hmm:

[Eastwest Loco]

Ahab - SLF said freight was loaded and rear locker closed. I could not be sure if anything was actually loaded as this gent is a shipping company manager and not airline involved. There is a good chance nothing at all was loaded.

Best regards

EWL

[Capt Claret]

On the few occasions I've not been able to carry the planned load, it has always been freight off first then baggage.

Given that there's nothing the pax can really do about it, short of refusing to fly, thus exacerbating the delay that accompanies such a situation, I elect to advise the pax as we taxi in, rather than leave it to the CC to cop the agro for the duration.

[Capt Wally]

...................one has to wonder what other little 'details' do the airlines leave out for the poor unsuspecting pax (whom actually pay these people to give them deliberate lies & deception ) when they fly with said transport Co's. such as QF (Quick Freight, no pax bags) !

............................................still QF like all the others are just a transport Co. at the end of the day no more no less & am sure the train & bus Co's. (doing essentially the same buisness) are not much better at times, Connex ( ML choo choo train operators) for Eg. get fined $zillions for late & cancelled services, wonder how the airlines would react if the same penalties where applied to them for such indiscretions, but I guess their independant, for now !............ :-)
Read the fine print upon the back of yr flight ticket (assuming you have such & have several days to read it ) it probably says we guarentee zip !:-)..........now now boys & girls all said with tongue in cheek :-)

................Capt Wally :-)

[flywatcher]

Weather was RS all day Saturday in Devonport

[Buster Hyman]

LocoBloko.

As a Load Controller, I would usually go and look at the end of the loading on the big birds that were going OS, but very rarely did the Domestic chaps go for a walk. Too many flights to do in too short a time and, also, the loadsheet printed at the gate & someone else handed it over...in domestic. At AN INTL, we took it out.

This also would explain a rather large golfing group that were flying down your way once on a 146. The idea was to spread all the clubs across a number of flights but, the over zealous loaders put the lot on the first flight. Now, according to the story, that was a rather sluggish take off!:ooh:

[Hugh Jarse]

Gidday Ron,

I'll chime in here. Probably not telling you anything new, but it's policy of most airlines that baggage goes first, freight subject to space and weight limitations. Ours is no different. Missing Link will be able to elaborate on ML ops, however I find it unusual for the bags NOT to get on. Something out of the ordinary must have occurred for the bags to miss the flight. I can't answer as to why.

Rear hold is not normally a problem on the Dash W/B wise. Usually you can get the approx 900kg in with few difficulties (and within limitations).

Buster, in NSW ops the LOCO always goes to the rear hold to confirm baggage/freight onload/security etc. In ML there may be local differences, so I can't comment. I assume the procedures would be similar.

I just hope the bags were expedited once this came to light.

Anyway, I'm catching the boat. Arrive DPO 25MAR. There might be beer involved :ok: :ok: :yuk:

[Buster Hyman]

Hugh. In all honesty, they might have gone out to each flight when their office was on the tarmac. Since then they moved up to gate 4 (D4) & then up to the Observation deck, it just didn't happen unless the leading hand called for them to come down.

One thing that always amazed me was that they loaded exactly the same way every time. Never loaded for optimum trim because "It would confuse them at the other end!":rolleyes:

[Eastwest Loco]

Hiya Hugh and Buster.

My question was well answered as it was an offload for fuel situation. The 100 series of anything will suffer that. There was no compromise of C of G as the crew were well aware.

I have no solid evidence that freight was actually loaded, but a locker being closed with an audible thunk may have given SLF the nice warm fuzzy mindset that something had been loaded.

Maybe missing link or the other participant on the flight deck could have advised the SLF that baggage was not loaded due to the WX in DPO - which was indeed crappy.

Before getting off one's bike on a technical knowledge jag, maybe a look at one's customer service skills might be appropriate missing link. It aint that hard to tell the punters that all baggage has been offloaded due to alternate requirements, and they cannot give you a hard time behind that door. Also saves the groundies in DPO having to make up whatever the clients want to hear. It also saves speculation that an aeroplane has been despatched with an incorrect trim sheet.

It 2 days for me to get ****ty over the bitey post missing link

My time in the indusrty is nearly done - 10 to 15 years to run if I last that long but I know every single thing I have done in the beloved Airlines I worked for and now work with has been to the best of my ability and that I have left some small marks on the Australian industry. My late father did too. I hope at the end of your career you can stand back and say "I made a difference".

If you cannot, you are not a bootlace compared to Boomer Collins, Kev Humpris and Captains of their ilk.

Nuff said.

EWL

[B A Lert]

......I know every single thing I have done in the beloved Airlines I worked for and now work with has been to the best of my ability and that I have left some small marks on the Australian industry. My late father did too. I hope at the end of your career you can stand back and say "I made a difference"...............


Most would like to be able to join you and make the same statement EWL but for reasons beyond their control, they can't. Many in the modern workplace are sh!t-scared to cross that line and give the punter what he deserves. Apart from having initiative and incentive knocked out of them, the poor buggers on the front line are so under-resourced in almost every way that they simply have insufficient time for a lot of the niceties of customer service. They are being screwed evry which-way but generally do the very best they can.
.

[Eastwest Loco]

I am very well aware of that B A Lert and am also very aware their are a lot of excellent people in the front line at all levels.

It does hurt that they do their best but are constantly looking over their shoulders for snipers. It is hard to soar with the eagles when you are being stalked by heavily armed turkeys.

The people I deal with at QF, DJ and JQ are great, but a little loose talk generates a fear for their position. No way to run a cathouse.

I don't screw up often, but when I do it is usually cataclysmic and that means it costs me dollars. My cockups are admitted and in my case at least the "fix" is paid for by me and I (hopefully) learn from that.

As such, I am not perturbed criticising performance or lack thereof in a field I am skilled to a degree in.

Likewise, I would not be defensive if a client of mine, and there are a good few in here, had a public criticism of me. A valid criticism is always welcome. If something is broke and ya don't know - then how do you fix it.

I do my best. I am sure we all try to. Only the level varies according to IQ.

best regards

EWL

[Buster Hyman]

had a public criticism of me
Allright...your hold music is crap!:p

;)

[Eastwest Loco]

Ummmm Buster - I don't have any hold music:=

As for the music you get when you ring my mobile, I have no idea where that came from and no idea how to stop it.

Best regards

EWL

[resboy]

Hugh. In all honesty, they might have gone out to each flight when their office was on the tarmac. Since then they moved up to gate 4 (D4) & then up to the Observation deck, it just didn't happen unless the leading hand called for them to come down.

Or in the case of the dashies the LOCO is even further away ... sydney ...

[Buster Hyman]

Only kidding Ron, only kidding.:)

Oooh, centralised Load Control...always brings a shiver down my spine!:uhoh:

[Eastwest Loco]

Ummmmm - Buster? Do you hear voices too telling you to do baaaaaad things?
:}
I am getting a little worried here.

Not nearly as worried as I am about shed Load Control. That is just plain scary. The loco needs to be able to eyball the load. Just asking for unwanted paperwork there.

Hands on and eyballing is more than just desireable.

Best all

EWL

[Capt Fathom]

but in those far off days there was actually a tower at DPO with staff who could look out and give an accurate interpretation...(of the weather)
It looked like a tower, but was manned by those wonderful people from Flight Service. :ok: Wynyard was manned likewise!

[Eastwest Loco]

Indeed correct Fathomsan.

The FSU guys were a great and very effective bunch and did interpret to a degree as well as provide factual information as was their job.

Now it is all remoted and good luck.

It is ironic that the day of the fireys made redundant and/or transferred due to the airport downgrading having their breakup party in the Fire Station, a Kendell Captain managed to stick his SF340 into a ditch causing several million dollars damage and scaring the living suitcase out of the only slightly injured passengers.

Naturally the fireys were all over the scene like a bad suit making sure all was secure and passengers were safely removed from the aeroplane.

Best regards

EWL