520 NOTAR for longline

[3top]

Hello gentlemen,

looking for your help, like many times in the past!

A friend is looking at buying a used (about 10000 hrs used) MD 520 NOTAR and wants to put it to work for longline and exploration work (Hydroelectric and Gold mine projects).
Now my personal experience with ANY Hughes/MD product is limited to 45min as a passenger some 16 years ago (damn thing got me hooked on helicopters....). Never even sat in one again since ....

I read this and that about the NOTAR and I am not a real Hughes/MD fan (very subjective for complete lack of experience....), so I'd rather ask your experience/opinion/facts on this specific type and intended job.

Give me the good, the bad and especially the ugly about it!!

Thanx for your time on this thread!

3top :cool:

[SASless]

I've flown 500D models doing similar work. They are fine until you start moving core drills and they seem to lack enough power....we had three engine failures out of a fleet of 12 in one year in Alaska due to working them to death.

I have a couple of hours in the 520 and suspect it might not be the best choice for that kind of work. Perhaps a good used BK-117 would be better than the 520. Get a late model one and you might have something. Dynamic components are the same as the EC-145 and that will be around for some time in addition to the BK's.

You might compare the spec's of an B2 Astar before going to either of the 117 or 520.

Perhaps 170' or some of the Canadian Longline guys would better sources of information as they probably have done as much of that kind of work as anyone.

[3top]

Wow, SAS ....

it's a looong jump from a 520 to a BK117, but I like the idea!!

Seriously, I would like to know more about how the NOTAR compares to the conventional TR on the 500-series. Is it any good in hot and high situations?
Moving core-drills is exactly the job I am worried about with this helicopter:)


3top:cool:

[Scissorlink]

I know for the D it is a great platform to longline from, the Notar will just feel a bit more spongy in the pedals. In the D model there is no space for passengers, noisy, and leak in the rain and PMA blades cost you 150 LBS of lift and are EXTREMELY prone to CRACKING !!! ...Good points-fast, agile and fun to fly tho they are very tiring...hard on the back and body after 9 hours in the seat. I would say the Notar would be similiar in those respects to a D model.
At end of the day its how much you want to lift on the end of the line ??? Overkill if you are moving 520 loads with a BK and probably 3 engine failures if your moving BK loads with a 520


SL

[tecpilot]

I would like to know more about how the NOTAR compares to the conventional TR on the 500-series. Is it any good in hot and high situations

Take the D/E model! I like the "conventional" models much more. You could have the D/E also with the stronger and higher TOT c20 R engine. If you need real hot'n high performance take the 530 (more expensive)
The D/E is much cheaper to buy than a 520 and gives better controllability. If you need a heated cockpit because you have to sit in it for many hours a day in very cold environment forget the 500 series. No performance with bleed air heating activated! The only reason to buy a 520 is the lower noise level.
Have very good memories to the 500/520 series and hauling missions, but this damned bleed air heating :} :\ after some hours i was allways hydraulically blocked by frostiness ... Bleed air on AS350 takes not so much power!

[3top]

Thanx,

.. so far!

Here the straight and the ugly:
The proposed ship is a hightime (10000 hr) ex-police 520 for about $500k.

Does this make any sense??

Tec, "heating" isn't the issue where this bird is supposed to fly - A/C would be a kick!!

Anyone else with experience on the NOTAR?

3top :cool:

[tecpilot]

The proposed ship is a hightime (10000 hr) ex-police 520 for about $500k.

I'm not a helicopter dealer := but bet you can find anytime a time comparable D/E model much cheaper.
I don't want to post commercial links. Check out the net and you will find a lot of 500s in Europe and Oversea.
If you are looking for the max. load... Altough per digits the 520 should haul a few lbs more i have never found this to be true.

[pohm1]

Wouldn't that be something to do with the NOTAR anti torque system sucking more of the available power than a standard tail rotor?

P1

[spencer17]

I would prefer an A-Star B2. Have about 5,000 hours on each 500D/E and A-Star. We did a lot of fertilizing with both types. Always max power and no engine failiure during the entire time. Both are reliable. If you have to fly offen in rainy conditions the blades on the 520 may be a problem. And if the pilot is taller then 175cm it's punishment to fly the whole day.
Take a A-Star. It lifts up to a ton. You can sit comfortable in it. It's easier to maintain.

Always happy landings
spencer17

[HeliDriverNZ]

3top
Only flown conventional 500's myself but in the last couple of years about 7 or 8 520's have arrived in NZ and the bulk of them have gone on ag work ie lifting heavy loads repetitivly talking to the pilots who fly them they all say they lift much more than the D/E model and are quicker as well fuel cosumption is naturally a little higher.
One of the guys who bought a sister ship to the one you are more than likely looking at has just bought a second ship to supplement the first one.
Hope this helps

[3top]

Guys,
thanx for all the info!
I will forward this to my friend.
Personally I would also go for a 350B2, especially as there are already some Eurocopters in the country.
MD/Hughes are only C models and one D here.
With a NOTAR you are a pionier here :)

Any ugly things about the 520 NOTAR?

3top

[diethelm]

If it is a used 520N from a police department, it is most likely from the Phoenix PD. If it is and you are looking for a local person for an inspection, send me a private message and I can give you a name or two. There are several local maintenance shops and there are a lot of D's, E's and F's flying around town.

[Jerry Seinfeld]

I have about 2500hrs in the 520N mostly moving drills, it will lift more than the D or E model it is a little slower in cruise than the Dor E takes a couple of hours to get used to the pedals compared to a conventional 500, I used to pull the YSAS circuit breaker as the YSAS always seemed to be doing control inputs when they were not required, 1 of the vertical fins is controlled by YSAS the other by Pedal input.Main problem with the Notar used to be High engine temps as compared to the D,E model especially at sea level or summertime you would always temp out before torquing out. Less maintenance than D,E as less moving parts in the rear, all around a great machine.

And of course a B2 would be better, and a Skycrane would be excellent let's stick with comparing apples to apples not apples to steak.

Yada Yada Yada

[crispy69]

Check your pm's:O

[ylhelico]

Hi 3Top,

First of all, I have to say I really miss the Notar. I had a lot of fun with it.

I have about 1000hrs on 520N of wich 400 is on the long line 130'. Of course you can not compare it to an ASTAR BA or B2. To a 350D model maybe. But then, try to find any used 350 for sale these days. If you ever find one, it will 3 times more expensive.
I haven't flown the 520N for about 5 years now but here is some numbers I remember:
-1 hours 45 minutes autonomy. But there are 3-4 kinds of auxiliary tanks that if installed can bring the autonomy to about 3.3hrs depending on the kind.
-On the hook, you can expect to lift about 1500lbs (3 or 4 drums depending on wind and fuel required for the flight)
- Cruise speed of 120kts with no external pod (110 kts with belly pod)

I your friend wants to buy it here are some pros and cons:

+Very good and agile for vertical reference work.
+Excellent for confine areas.
+Very safe a/c: No tail rotor, eggshell airframe protecting pilots and pax in case of crash. Easy to fly to.

-Customer usualy find it to small and uncomfortable, not much cargo space.
-Very difficult to sell it back if you have to. (in other words, you are stuck with it).
-Factory parts, support and service should be acknowledged before making the big step.

Finaly, before buying a particular machine, check the empty weight, below 1700lbs is good, over that, it might be a bit to heavy to do longlining work.
Then again, those numbers are from memory so they might not be exact.

Have a good one!

ylhelico:cool:

[3top]

Gentlemen,

thank you very much for all the input!
Seems to be a nice machine after all! Though it is still small inside - problem is, that it is not used for longline only, but also crew changes.
But it "comes out" a lot better than I thought! :) :)

Another question:

It was mentioned before - What about pilot size?
Any tall guys flying the bird?
I am 1,87m at 178 lbs, long legs, ....

Spencer17 mentioned it would be tough if over 1,75 .....

Anyone tall/big ?

3top

PS: Thanx for all the PM's!

[spencer17]

@ 3-top I'm 189 cm and flew it a lot as mentioned earlier. Sometimes it's pain to fly the whole day and for Px it's very noisy and small.
Did you think about a Lama or AL III. It carries a lot even hot and high and has a lot of space. The only thing to think about are the spares. I like them both.

Always happy landings
spencer17

[diethelm]

I am 6' 2" and I have no problem fitting.

D's E's and F's in the states have become very expensive over the last 3 years.

Parts are a lot better than before. One problem is time left on the tail boom of an N. 100k to replace the tail boom but it is good for somewhere around 10,000 hours.

I average 33 gallons an hour at max continous and 30 gallons per hour messing around. 62 gallon main tank and 20 gallon Aux. Never use the aux, always have to pee before the main tank is dry.

[3top]

Thanx guys!

I will let you know what it's going to be!

3top :cool: