Flying under Thames bridges

[greenviewpark]

Has anyone any pics. of the 'Mad Major' flying Auster J/1 'Alpha' G-AGYD (belonging to Herts & Essex Aero Club Broxbourne,) under the Thames bridges, I recall one being published of her going under Westminster Bridge.
This A/C is being restored in Norfolk.

Dusty

[PPRuNe Pop]

This subject has been discussed at least twice before on here, and I would suggest that you use the very good PPRuNe search button to find them

One, I think, did have a picture of the Auster flying under the Westminster bridge.

It would be of interest too to have a pic or two of the restoration. Anyone?

[RETDPI]

Chris Draper used to show a film of the flight taken from inside the Auster. Anybody know what happened to it?

[greenviewpark]

This subject has been discussed at least twice before on here, and I would suggest that you use the very good PPRuNe search button to find them

One, I think, did have a picture of the Auster flying under the Westminster bridge.

It would be of interest too to have a pic or two of the restoration. Anyone?
Would it be poss. please to scan, & e-mail me a copy of her emerging from Westminster bridge please.

I too would like to find out more on her restoration.

Dusty

[Le Tirer]

I would also like very much to see a picture of G-AGYD flying under the bridge. I had my first ever flight in an aircraft in 'YD sometime in the late 60's early 70's from Compton Abbas airfield.

I have searched all 16 pages in the thread posted above but have failed to find the pictures.

Hoping someone can oblige or point me in the right direction

LT

[Flying Lawyer]

Le Tirer

I can solve the mystery of the missing pictures, but it's not good news. :(

A few years ago, I posted pictures of the 'Mad Major' flying under various of the Thames bridges, and also scans of his Summons to attend Bow Street magistrates court and the subsequent order to pay a fine. (I can't now remember in which thread or forum I posted them.)
They were links to images posted on an American aviation website (not a bulletin board) by someone who, if I remember correctly, said he was a descendant/nephew. The links haven't worked for some time and, unfortunately, I didn't download copies to my hard disk. :{

Here's a picture of Major Draper at Tower Bridge. Not as impressive as the pictures of him flying under the other bridges where he was, of course, much lower.
It's also much smaller and a more distant shot than the others, but it's the best I can offer.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/MadMajor_TowerBridge.jpg



Tudor

[RETDPI]

Tudor ,
Isn't that a shot of Chris Draper going through Tower Bridge the first time with the Puss Moth pre war?
I seem to recall that in a report that time the Police pointed out the severe damage that the aircraft could have done to the bridge. :hmm:
For the later exploit he was adamant in a subsequent discussion in the 60's that he could have taken a formation of three Austers through safely.

[Flying Lawyer]

Yes, it is. I thought I'd offer something as small compensation for forgetting to save the other pictures to disk.
It's a scan of a postcard showing him flying under Tower Bridge in September 1931. He had his licence suspended for that.
The writing on the picture says 'C. Draper 30th September 1931', and written on the back is 'Given to E. T. Cherry on 17th June 1933 by Major C. Draper (Himself)'.

As for his assertion that he could have taken a formation of three Austers through safely in the later exploit, I think he's right. They'd be able to see if there were any boats/barges coming the other way towards the bridges.


greenviewpark

An idea which may help your research into the Auster -

He wrote an autobiography: The Mad Major, by Major Christopher Draper which was published in 1962.
I recently found one on the internet, but it hasn't arrived yet so I don't know if it contains any pictures of the Auster flying under the bridges.
I hope it does, but even if not, I assume he's bound to have related the exploit in it, especially as he ended up in court.


Now that's a case I would have considered it an honour to do for nothing if I'd been at the Bar in those days! :)



FL

[RETDPI]

He wrote an autobiography: The Mad Major, by Major Christopher Draperwhich was published in 1962.
I recently found one on the internet, but it hasn't arrived yet so I don't know if it contains any pictures of the Auster flying under the bridges.
I hope it does, but even if not, I assume he's bound to have related the exploit in it, especially as he ended up in court.

Now that's a case I would have considered it an honour to do for nothing if I'd been at the Bar in those days! ! :)

The book is illustrated and the Westminster bridge shot is the frontspiece IIRC. ( My copy is still in the U.K.)
He did the second flight as a protest against "ageism" in employment of course: I think he was 62 at the time. He came and stayed with my family for Christmas 65(?) and showed us the film from the Auster on the Boxing Day. Happy Times!

[Wunper]

greenviewpark

Here are the pictures from the book mentioned by F/L.

Before :hmm:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/wunper/Draper.jpg


During:cool:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/wunper/Draper_Auster_bridges.jpg


The (not so) surprising result!:D
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/wunper/Draper_Summons.jpg


F/L if your book doesn't turn up p.m. me you are welcome to my copy

W :ok:

[Le Tirer]

Thanks to Flying Lawyer and Wunper for your efforts.

Do I take it from the picture taken at Broxbourne just before take off that the aircraft involved was not actually G-AGYD? It looks like G-AJ??

Dave

[Viscount35Association]

I would love to see a picture of a Hunter that flew along the Themes and under Tower Bridge many years ago.

Hats off to the guy:D

[greenviewpark]

The pic. no doubt was posed, the Auster Alpha he is posing in front of is almost certainly G-AJEI --- this A/C is currently airworthy'

Dusty

[Beechy]

G-AGYDs' rebuild progresses-how do you post photos on this website?

Thanks

[treadigraph]

Beechy, BOAC's thread (http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/203154-image-posting-pprune-some-tips-you.html) explains.

Look forward to seeing them!

[Dave Clarke Fife]

Slight thread creep and apologies if it deserves a new thread altogether. Having read about 'The Mad Major' it got me thinking as to who was the first to fly 'under or through?'

I've come up with this short (5seconds) video of Charles Godefroy flying through the Arc de Triomphe in 1919.....genuine article I think, unless you know better........and wondered if there is any record of any pilot doing the London bridges any earlier than 1919??





TAKEOFF TUBE: Charles Godefroy Flies Through the Arc de Triomphe Aviation Videos, Take Off Videos (http://www.takeofftube.com/view/2790/charles-godefroy-flies-through-the-arc-de-triomphe/)

[Double Zero]

As for " loving to see & hat's off " etc, re. Flying a Hunter through Tower Bridge, it's probably a schoolboy taunt but I'll bite.

The chap carrying it out was Al Pollock, his reason being a personal protest about the way defence cuts were going.

I happen to think he was being selfishly stupid, risking a lot of lives on the bridge who were not involved in his argument...

If you visit Tangmere, West Sussex, Military Aviation Museum they have a 'simulator' or two with this 'Tower Bridge' program ( sic ) ready to go, at the risk of no-one - which is about how I'd have suggested the esteemed Mr.Pollack should have done it, even if he'd had to wait a few years !

As it was I received a lot of flak from 1960's pilots saying " grand job "; in fact considering bridge & aircraft span it's not grand at all, but risking a lot of unwilling participants - but no-one even tried to defend the figuring in of people on the bridge etc.

I will not be replying to this mail, and any sub-heroic replies will be up to you to determine their degree of madness !

DZ

[Wind Sock]

There is a reference in the article below to a Lancaster bomber flying under Tower Bridge during World War II. The pilot was Lighton Verdon-Roe (son of Sir Alliott Verdon-Roe famous for 'AVRO')

E.I. Townsend (http://www.156squadron.com/crew_townsendEI.html)

However I am a bit dubious of the truth behind that claim.

When compared to the other aircraft that achieved this feat a Lancaster has a much larger wing span and would be a lot less manouverable.

More worryingly flying under that bridge during wartime would carry far greater risks. One could be shot down by one's own ground defences or one could could get tangled up with the many barrage balloons that protected that part of London.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Every so often somebody brings up yet another story of an aircraft flying under Tower Bridge.

This time it is a LANCASTER!!

This is what it says about Townsend:

With Bomber Command’s losses, never knowing whether today was to be your ‘last day’ meant that flight crew enjoyed themselves in ways not to be encouraged in peacetime. On one occasion, Lighton, with Eric on board, flew a Lancaster under Tower Bridge, London. On a second occasion, he flew the aircraft – banked, it wouldn’t have got through otherwise - between brickwork chimneys in Peterborough.


Under or over i.e. between the towers, the span is 200 feet.

The Lancaster has a span of 102 feet. Wheels up it is about ??

Whatever, the margin for error is 49 feet either side and I don't buy it. If its critical for a Hunter..........................it would be a great story but safe to say Tower Bridge is still there!

Where would the approach be from? London Bridge - no way. From the east? How would it climb to clear London Bridge?

Where is the evidence? Some hard worked guys swinging the lamp?!

April fools has just gone!!

[Chris Scott]

Quote from PPRuNe Pop:
Where would the approach be from? London Bridge - no way. From the east? How would it climb to clear London Bridge?

Errr.. Easing back on the control column, perhaps, rather like 617 Squadron's chaps? :confused:

[JEM60]

Give it a bit of time, and the Yanks will claim it was a B.36!!:)

[Fareastdriver]

Under or over i.e. between the towers, the span is 200 feet.
The Lancaster has a span of 102 feet.

Fly so the cockpit goes directly below the big badge and above the join on the bridge and you will have about 49 feet clear either side. There will be s slight error with regard to you're seating in the cockpit. Apart from that, simple.
If you can land it on a runway you can keep it within the towers of London Bridge.

[TRC]

Well, there are two (three if you include the Thunderbirds thread) places to post this, but this one is probably the most relevent.

After six months of negotiations with the CAA (they kept saying 'no', we kept asking 'why not'), An AS355 was allowed to fly through Tower Bridge during the making of the film version of Thunderbirds. It was Sunday morning in summer 2003 at sparrow fart.

And to prove it...........

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j212/teeo1/TowerBridgeBirds_124.jpg

[Double Zero]

I'm nothing to do with Tangmere Museum, but if you should visit it ( allow plenty of time, there's a LOT to see ) as well as the 'simulator' giving one the chance to fly the Hunter through Tower bridge and with a little practice - it starts at a couple of thousand feet to the East - keep a heading of 273 degrees ( I didn't have the time or brains to work out if that's magnetic or true,but it's at the top of the screen, use the contour of the Thames as a guide.

Once used to it ( remember the Tangmere sim' is on a strict time limit, so you'll only get another go during quiet times ) it's possible to go through at full throttle - any Hunter pilots out there, if you try it would you agree the IAS is rather high ? - ignoring the overspeed alarm as it's only a game, then one has the choice of carrying straight on - a little higher ! For a South Easterly approach and landing at Northolt - tight on time - or looping straight after the bridge and then London City Airport is straight ahead.

From the latter it doesn't take Einstein to deduce it's based on Microsoft Flight Sim 2004.

The Tangmere add-on is available for £10.00 at the museum, it features Chipmunks, Lysanders, Hurricanes, Speed record reheated Hunter WB188 etc too but of course you need the F.S.2004 as well.

I'm not a particular sim' nut but I do find a force-feedback 'joystick' is well worthwhile, one can assign hand-on button & rotary controls for throttle, gear, flaps, outside view etc; it even trembles as one trundles across grass - well it does the trick for me but maybe that's too much information...

Inflamatory comments removed. You've made your opinions well known in other threads. No need to do it yet again. Anyone interested may do a search for them but the Mods have no desire to referee another urinating contest.

The Mods

[X767]

Tower Bridge

OO

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist a further input !!

It would be nice if you could learn to spell Al's name properly.

X767

[Flying Lawyer]

Double Zero As for " loving to see & hat's off " etc, re. Flying a Hunter through Tower Bridge, it's probably a schoolboy taunt but I'll bite.What on earth makes you think it was a schoolboy taunt? :confused:
Taunting whom?
That post was in January 2007 and you responded to it more than three years later in February 2010.

I received a lot of flak from 1960's pilots I don’t know what you intend to imply by “1960’s pilots” but I can vouch for the fact that at least two of the many pilots who didn’t share your opinions were still at school in the 1960s, and didn't start flying until the 1970s. One of them became a respected fast jet test pilot, TP tutor and display pilot; I'd confidently put my life in his hands in any aircraft at any time. (The other is me.)
any sub-heroic replies will be up to you to determine their degree of madness ! Strong words for someone who isn’t a pilot, and never has been.
I do find a force-feedback 'joystick' is well worthwhile, one can assign hand-on button & rotary controls for throttle, gear, flaps, outside view etc; it even trembles as one trundles across grass :rolleyes:
I don't doubt you’re a wizz on MS Flightsim. :zzz:

FL

[Double Zero]

Trust a lawyer to find quotes from elsewhere...

Just for once, read what I actually wrote on this thread today and take it at face value !

We agree to differ as to the safe reasoning of flying through Tower Bridge...I have seen plenty of remarks like ' good flying ' but no-one has come back with a sensible argument for risking a lot of people.

I said I'm not a flight sim nut, and that's the truth; I've also flown with a lot of Test and Fast Jet Pilots, a small number of whom I certainly wouldn't choose to fly with again.

Cheap insults are beneath you, I would have hoped.

DZ OUT.

[Flying Lawyer]

The quotes aren't from elsewhere; they are from your posts in this thread.

Just for once, read what I actually wrote on this thread today and take it at face value !
I would have if you hadn't treated readers of this forum yet again today, and for the nth time, to your opinion about Al Pollock's flight through Tower Bridge by gratuitously throwing in: "without stupidly risking civilians & architecture !"

I have seen plenty of remarks like ' good flying ' but no-one has come back with a sensible argument for risking a lot of people. Perhaps that's because they don't accept your claim that he did risk a lot of people; I don't.
Cheap insults are beneath you, I would have hoped Pots and kettles?
"Any sub-heroic replies will be up to you to determine their degree of madness!"

[PPRuNe Pop]

Until my colleagues alerted me to how this thread had deteriorated I was already thinking that it was time to close the Tower Bridge for good. There are some great items here from those who have good records and have shared them, but there is of late some terrible crap and inflammatory remarks - and personal attacks.

What needs to be learned is that the wealth of experience on this thread and hundreds of others too, are ripe for the taking and learning from. Instead, we get personal digs, which, quite rightly get put down. I can well understand FL's extreme irritation - I feel the same way.

Anyway, to take my colleagues step one stage further I am closing this thread and there will be no more about it. It can be looked at whenever but enough is enough.

As for stepping in to try oneupmanship, forget it! Its been tried many times and the loser lost!!