Turbinlight airborne searchlight

[greenviewpark]

During WW11 I lived near to an airfield which operated Douglas Boston/Havocs fitted with searchlights in the nose, I saw one 'light up' & what an impressive sight it made. has anyone any pics of these A/C please?

Any help gratefully received

Dusty

[virgo]

A bit off thread but the sort of thing that turns up on H & N to make it interesting...........While researching Greenviewpark's query, I came across this :

In "An illustrated History of the RAF" on the subject of the Boston 3.........

"It was the only machine in the RAF in which the pilot was not expected to be the last to bale out; a detachable control column was available in the upper gunner's compartment, in the hope that he could fly straight and level so that the pilot could avoid hitting the very high tailplane, (Does he mean fin ? virgo) after clambering out of his top hatch and diving off the trailing edge of the wing"

Can anyone confirm this, or is it a bit of lineshoot that over the years has become rooted as fact ? (It actually sounds a bit Monty Python !)
Anyone out there actually done it ?????????

[brickhistory]

Sorry, no photos of my own of the Turbinlite, however, a really excellent read "Pursuit Through Darkened Skies," by Michael(?) Allen has such a picture as well as a very good description of trying to use the concept on operations.

[MReyn24050]

Douglas Havoc MkII Turbinlite, not a very clear photograph I am afraid.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/turban.jpg

[virgo]

A subsequent development I think.................A Leigh light, not used for night-fighters, a la Boston, but with some success by Coastal Command in illuminating U-Boats for an attack. I remember reading the memoirs of a U-Boat crew commander describing his surfaced night-time transit/battery charge being suddenly interrupted by the dazzling beam of the Leigh-light followed by a stick of depth charges, (which sunk him)
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i271/Virgo_photo/250px-Leigh_Light.jpg

[Kitbag]

A bit off thread but the sort of thing that turns up on H & N to make it interesting...........While researching Greenviewpark's query, I came across this :

In "An illustrated History of the RAF" on the subject of the Boston 3.........

"It was the only machine in the RAF in which the pilot was not expected to be the last to bale out; a detachable control column was available in the upper gunner's compartment, in the hope that he could fly straight and level so that the pilot could avoid hitting the very high tailplane, (Does he mean fin ? virgo) after clambering out of his top hatch and diving off the trailing edge of the wing"

Can anyone confirm this, or is it a bit of lineshoot that over the years has become rooted as fact ? (It actually sounds a bit Monty Python !)
Anyone out there actually done it ?????????

There were a couple of other machines during the WWII period whose narrow fuselages made such rudimentary controls an attractive option, the Handley Page Hampden in the UK and the Heinkel He115 both featured basic flight controls for the dorsal gunner, but not to enable the pilot to escape, rather to assist in bringing the aircraft back should the pilot be incapacitated. FWIW I would imagine the dorsal gunners view would be so restricted as to make it impractical.

[DB6]

Here's another, and it appears to be spelt Turbinlite (didn't know they had text messaging in those days :hmm: ).

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/DB6Mk2/Turbinlite.jpg

[Archimedes]

Some photos and line drawings, etc can be found here (http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=35422&sid=9fac358aa1d9b6db247e12bc0b8259b6)

[greenviewpark]

Thanks Guys
For the pics. & info.
The idea of the light came from Wg/Cdr. W Helmore, but proved to be very costly for us. 10 Sqds were formed , which only managed to destroy 1 Heinkel 111, -- 1 proable - & 2 damaged, our losses 31 A/c. during period 2/9/1941 to Jan 1943 = 31 A/C. some crews, also 1 of our own Stirlings shot down by them.

1451 Flight was formed also at Hunsdon, 22/5/1941 - operational 21/7/1941 soon became 530 Sqd. together with Hurricanes of 3 Sqdn.

538 Flight formed 29/9/1941 to become 538 Sqdn. under command of Sqdn/Ldr J B Nicholson ( the only Battle of Britain VC) ----killed in an accident 2/5/1945 while flying as passenger in a 355 Sqdn Liberator after a raid on Rangoon.

The Mosquito lights were built in Sept. 1942, but stopped on reports from Wg/Cmdr John 'Catseyes' Cunningham.

Let us hope that more pics will come to light, --- sorry, no pun intended!!

Dusty

[Load Toad]

I suppose sticking a radar which at the time was heavy and delicate into a large aircraft and using it to illuminate a target for a 'homing' fighter made a lot of sense. I guess.

[brook creek]

I was searching for Havoc entries and came across your forum entry. As it happens, my father worked in the aircraft industry during the war.

I have a photo and a writeup on the Turbinlite. I would be happy to post but do not see the site upload mechanism.

Paul B

I read further and am trying this from PBucket


Photobucket updated and link revised July 26, 2010

Douglas A-20 Havoc pictures by brookcreek - Photobucket (http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/brookcreek/Douglas%20A-20%20Havoc/)

[Atcham Tower]

It was indeed spelled Turbinlite. That's a great photo but begs the question where was it taken? The aircraft behind appears to be a Hornet Moth and the gasometer looks like the one near Heathrow. Heston perhaps or Fairey's Hayes aerodrome?

[Atcham Tower]

Just checked some books and discovered that the Fairey Hayes site was a factory only, test flying being done from the company's Great West Aerodrome, later to become the basis for Heathrow. So could the Havoc be there?

[Kolibear]

I suppose sticking a radar which at the time was heavy and delicate into a large aircraft and using it to illuminate a target for a 'homing' fighter made a lot of sense. I guess.

But Turbinlite wasn't a radar - it was a big searchlight.

Airborne Radar in Blenheims & Beaufighters was already being used with some success before Turbinlite.

The obvious question is 'Why not dispense with the Hurricane & fit a cannon pack to the Boston?' Illuminate target & press gun button.

[midnight retired]

Their was an oil painting hanging in the Officers Mess at R A F Sealand showing the Douglas Havoc being modified to Turbinlite standard ,It quite intriqued me as this Station was usually associated with Tiger Moths at that time.

The Artist , Jim Chaplin , informed me that the the installation of the Turbinlite kit was in fact carried out there.A little known facet of R A F Sealands wartime history.

Somewhere I have a photo of the painting .

Hopefully another piece of the jigsaw .

[Atcham Tower]

Ah yes, Jim Chaplin, my old art master and former Corsair pilot, not to mention Sealand gliding instructor! I have a blurry photo somewhere of a Turbinlite Havoc at Sealand.

[Load Toad]

My comment (made in 2007) was that at the time radar was heavy and most available fighters would have been unable to carry it. So stick a radar and a light into a bigger plane and use it to find the bomber and illuminate it might have made sense. Must have been bloody difficult for the fighter to keep station near the illuminating aircraft though prior to the big search light being switched on.

[Props]

Just been reading Lettice Curtis's book where she describes ferrying a Turbinlite Havoc to Heston
Happy Christmas

[India Four Two]

Looking at brook creek's photo, I was tempted to say it looked like an academic test of flat-plate drag, with four boffins in the foreground. ;)

However, after looking at it again, is that John Cunningham, second from the right?

I wonder what the performance penalty of the Turbinlight installation was. I notice there are some slots in the cowling around the edge, presumably an attempt to reduce the turbulence.

[A30yoyo]

The Photobucket photo is 1000% Heston :) What a cracking photo!

[A30yoyo]

brook creek, I've sent a Private Message (top right this page)....

[brook creek]

Hello India Four Two,

I am away from home right now with family for Christmas.
The "boffins" include my father, the young one on the extreme left. Assuming this was 1943/44, he would have been 24ish at the time.
I have the names of the other gentlemen in the photo at home and do not recall a Cunningham. I will check.

A30yoyo: to confirm the location, Heston indeed as we lived in Heston before emigrating to Canada in 1947.

As mentioned previously I have a few pages of documentation on the Turbinlite project. ???

[Atcham Tower]

Thanks for confirming it is Heston, A30. I am pretty sure that is not Cunningham.

[brook creek]

The Photobucket photo of the Turbinlite Havoc was in my father's files, which my mother retained after his death and subsequently passed to me. It has been in my files for several years.

The photo was on display in our home when I grew up but I never knew who the other gentlemen were until I asked my Mum a couple of years ago. She had a great memory right up until her death last August and she rattled the names off without hesitation. I expect that Mum had met some or all them as she and Dad got married in 1942. From other web info regarding the Turbinlite Havoc, the photo may have been taken in 1941.

The "boffins" are, from left to right: R.W. "Dick" Becker (my father), David Roberts, "Baron" Baynes (the real boffin) and Bruce Benson.

My apologies, the Turbinlite overview that I have appears to be part of a larger document that included the Mosquito Turbinlite. I can scan and post if anyone would care to read it.

I request that appropriate attribution be given if you use these items. Thank you.

Best wishes for a Happy and Healthy New Year.

[lawrence hole]

This picture was taken at Heston Aerodrome with the Southall Gasometer in the background. The aircraft to the left of the Boston is most likely a Beech Traveller as shown in Airfield Focus (no. 24 Heston).
There is a very good web site for Heston Airport/Aerodrome with associated pre-war/war time history, which you can reach by sending an e.mail to [email protected]

;) Lawrence

[brook creek]

With my thanks to John Smith and his son Peter of the UK. John was a wartime colleague of my father, R.W. Becker at Alan Muntz.

Recently, John came across the attached Turbinlite article from the Aeroplane Spotter, 31st May 1947, and the subsequent correspondence, which Peter forwarded with the note that "We believe this was written by a Mr R W Becker."

Peter also notes that "the correspondence is from the July 12th issue where a Mr Owen Thetford supplies further information. However it is the editors' comments about the credentials of the original writer that point to your father (RW Becker) being the author."

The editor also noted that "Mr. R.W. Becker, late of Heston Aircraft, Ltd."

Mr. Becker and family (wife and two young children - my sister and I) emigrated to Canada in early June of 1947.

I have posted these documents to Photobucket. Please note that I have edited my initial posting of 12/21/2009 to reflect the new link.

Paul R Becker

Douglas A-20 Havoc pictures by brookcreek - Photobucket (http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/brookcreek/Douglas%20A-20%20Havoc/)

[stepwilk]

"I notice there are some slots in the cowling around the edge, presumably an attempt to reduce the turbulence."

I wonder if the slots weren't to exhaust the huge heat produce by a 1,400-watt (amp?) bulb.

[603DX]

However, after looking at it again, is that John Cunningham, second from the right?



I think not, John Cunningham was a serving RAF officer during WW2. The caption below the picture identifies the civilian as Leslie Baynes, who had no perceptible resemblance to JC.

[brook creek]

For a technical summary written by design team member R.W. Becker, see

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/brookcreek/Douglas%20A-20%20Havoc/Turbinlite1article200.jpg