Wild deer recovery (video)

[haughtney1]

This would scare the living sh1t outta me :ooh:

FHcb7WZf85I

[UniFoxOs]

Interesting bit of film. Anybody know what is going on??

UFO

Reason I ask - I've just bought a deer carcass for the freezer - about 2GBP per KG (if you butcher it yourself), wouldn't pay for the fuel for that helicopter.

[High Wing Drifter]

I notice that the bloke with the bone dome isn't the guy leaping 20' onto a livid stag!

[Mudfoot]

Hell, I was getting dizzy just following the flying. I don't likes heights, but this time I'd stay in the chopper!

Cheers, y'all.

[reynoldsno1]

Thye've been doing this for years in NZ - the number of carcasses collected is usually seriously large ....

[tinpis]

Kiwis being dumb to cruel animals
Live catching for breeders early 80's was a good $$$$ innit for a time finished about the end of the 80's
Mainly Hughes 500/300 lots of seriously crazy bastards and lots bent choppers and deaths
Tin been on few sorties :eek:
Capture net gun made from welding 4 barrels onto an old lee enfield
This thing has some SERIOUS kick :ooh:
http://www.geocities.com/nedu537/helihunt/netgun.jpeg
If you can get a copy of this book yer hair will stand on end...
The Chopper Boys Rex Forrester Penguin Books NZ Ltd., 1988

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Pretty widely used in SA too. Know of pilots who've held down a warthog with a skid on the neck on the edge of it's burrow until ground units arrived.

http://www.conservationafrica.net/uploads/img/Chopper2-300px.jpg

[tinpis]

Know of pilots who've held down a warthog with a skid on the neck on the edge of it's burrow until ground units arrived.


:ooh: Always thought you Boks were a tough lot .
The kiwis are content with sheep !

[Solid Rust Twotter]

More adrenalin for your dollar....:} :E

[tinpis]

They die happy.:rolleyes:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Do they kill them?

Yep. Helicopter and 20 man ground team with associated support vehicles. Much cheaper to kill them that way than use a rifle.

[ThreadBaron]

Yer wudden want to jump onto them pointy bits!:eek:
I didn't see much concern for earthing as he hooked up and climbed back aboard!
Looks like more fun than the Shotover Jet, though.

[Heliseka]

I used to do this in the late 90's in Nz, Money wasn't to bad although these days your more likely to use a Robbie or a H300,Best day was about 17 deer in about hour and a half ,and taking in about $3.800 nzd for this depending on the price/per kg and the kind of shot.( head shot the best ,as if you shoot it anywhere than there you are going to devalue the meat,espt if you shoot it through the back legs).Back then you had a recovery licence and you could shoot as many as you wanted It was try and keep numbers at a suitable level,for Maf, but only a certain amount of licences are issued.Don't no what it's like now but it was fun back then..;)

[biggdav]

Excellent! Now thats what i call helo flying!:ok: :ok: :ok:

[Heli-kiwi]

I came from a farm in Opotiki on the east coast and the ridge I stayed on had 9 500Ds and 6 300Cs operating from various farms. I remember around 1984 seeing the prices max out at about 3-4000 dollars for a live hind.... It was good money especially when our guys were capturing 8-10 in a 3 hour trip. Our crew was in the DVD 'The last Great Adventure' Which has some pretty wild flying. I remember every Friday was when the 500 went in for its 50 hour check. Those days are now gone.......

[con-pilot]

http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?pmmsid=1820400

Hope that link works.

Wild deer, er, NON-recovery. More than one way to skin a cat, er deer in Oklahoma.

(Sorry about the TV commercial, however, it is the only way to show the video.)

[tinpis]

came from a farm in Opotiki on the east coast and the ridge I stayed on had 9 500Ds and 6 300Cs operating from various farms.

Paerata ridge road?

[Colonal Mustard]

if it wasnt for CAA regs in this country i could see a way round the fox hunting legislation, lol:}

[Heli-kiwi]

Paerata ridge road?

Why Yes, We had Dennis Mullooly and Dave Bass in A 500 based there.

[Old Age Pilot]

As the title says!... hmmmmmm

This may well of been posted before but i couldn't find it. But then the intraweb thingy is still too much for this ol' codger!

500 abuse - YouTube


Yes, posted before but always good for a discussion! Threads merged,

SPlot

[Agaricus bisporus]

*&%$ Me!

How many rotor strikes did he have in that clip?

Someone who won't make old bones, that's for sure. What an idiot!

[tartare]

Ahhh - now there are some picture from the past.
The New Zealand deer wars of the 1970s...

See:

Deer Wars - Television | NZ On Screen (http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/deer-wars-2007)

Two part doco - 18 mins each, but worth the watch for those of you in Northern Latitudes who may not be aware of the story.
Some legendary NZ rotary wing pilots featured; Bill Black, Tim Wallace etc. and also rare early footage of Hillers and 300s used for shooting.

8gtUXgMXDIw

From another site:

"At the peak of venison recovery in 1973, exports reached 3,500 tonnes from about 140,000 carcasses. At one stage there were 50 helicopters competing for deer in the southern South Island. Many adopted illegal and often dangerous tactics. Two RNZAF Iroquois helicopters were sent to the region to try to prevent poaching of deer from Fiordland and private properties..."

80 private pilots or hunters died in total.

...the tall tale was that certain D and C-model pilots could hear the RNZAF UH-1H's on their way, and were long gone by the time they arrived - 50 foot of blade slap versus 26 foot of LOACH rotor.
There's probably a feature film script in those stories somewhere...

[Hughesy]

Actually he is still flying, and not a bad bloke by all accounts.
Bit different flying then flying A to B with pax in a R44 :E

[Cleared-HOT]

Agaricus - Actually these guys weren't idiots - they were and are some of the best pilots around, and no they aren't dead, they are actually still alive and flying.

Armin Egli who was flying one of the D models now flies for ARHT (Westpac Rescue Heli) in Auckland and Steve Podjursky I think is flying for either Erickson on the Crane or Columbia. Dennis Mulooly I am not sure about.

Its just the way flying was back in those days same as a lot of the flying that was done in Vietnam etc or or are they all idiots to you as well.

Either way it is what it is. :ok:

[Agaricus bisporus]

CH, I guess you don't live in the real world. Anyone who puts his rotorblades into trees like that is an idiot. End of. That is foolhardiness and irresponsibility beyond belief.

You'll notice, if you take the time to read what I wrote, that I made no mention of his ability at poling the aircraft so please don't point that accusation at me - you made it up in your head. It is his judgement and sanity I was referring to, oddly enough.

How can he know there isn't a solid stump buried in that greenery? He can't. How can he know how much punishment those blades can take? He can't.

Your comparison with Vietnam is just plain offensive and shows what an idiot you are. No one was being shot at in NZ.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Cleared-HOT]

Actually Agaricus you don't differentiate between his flying abilities and what we was doing - you just called him an idiot.

You seem to like throwing insults around don't you. Go ahead if it makes you happy. Hope you feel like the big man you think you are :D

I would rather fly with one of these Kiwi pilots than someone like you anyday.

You have a good one.

[skidbiter2]

Aga Bis

Like me I am sure you are allowed to have your own opinion, and my opinion is that YOU should stick to what you know about and that is flying a remote controlled heli at your local airport!

This subject has been trashed out enough in the past, you obviously were never told that "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything"!

You aren't worth explaining the ins and outs of this industry to, all I say is pull your head in, you know nothing about what you are commenting on, other than what you THINK may happen.

Times have changed, there isn't so much pressure anymore.

[newfieboy]

I have had a blade strike in a 520N, I have seen other guys have them, I definitely landed ASAP along with all the others I have seen on various jobs over the years. Mine was the very top of a one inch diameter spruce tree,on a longline,80-100ft trees, tree was on blind side ,it popped the trailing edges on all 5 blades. Would you chance still flying with that.....and that was a single strike, that damaged all 5 blades not multiple strikes. Had a buddy strike the tips of a set of 350 blades a few years ago just before last light middle of winter @ -30c in the Boreal Forest, flying crews back to camp, yep they shut her down and overnighted in the bush. How do you know you haven't just caused a major delamination or worse.

Too insane in my world to keep on flying with any kind of blade strike, unless there is no other option, and then only to get to first available spot to put it down. And before I get flamed, nope not a model pilot, over 12000hrs in the bush, If you believe the pressure is not the same as in the past to perform, you haven't been flying operationally very often. Only difference I can see is we try to do it bloody safely these days........sadly a workmate of mine was killed a few years back in a D model along with everyone on board due to a plastic sample bag being blow through the main rotor, so yeah you guys who think blade strikes are the norm and keep going......good luck, specially in a 500, Darwin at its finest......

[Cleared-HOT]

Newfieboy - What skidbiter was saying is that this video was from back in the day where the venison recovery industry was in its hey day. Back then there was prob 100 machines around NZ working on deer recovery. Today there would probably be a total of about 12 in the whole country. Back then you would get around $3500 for a live hind but these days they dont even go after live deer anymore because of all the deer farms out there.

The guys hunting today just shoot them and there isnt the pressure to perform and get many deer a morning like they did back then. I personally know the risks in this industry as had a lot of people I know killed in the venison industry.

Anyway hope that helps highlight what he was meaning by no pressure these days.

Cheers
CH

[RVDT]

Dennis Mulooly I am not sure about

Dennis was taken out in a fixed wing.


Date: 22-NOV-1987

Type:
Piper PA-22-150 Tri-Pacer
Operator: Private
Registration: ZK-BSB
C/n / msn: 22-5417
Fatalities: Fatalities: 2 / Occupants: 2
Other fatalities: 0
Airplane damage: Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location: Lochinvar Station, 25NM S/E of NZAP (Taupo) - New Zealand
Phase: En route
Nature: Private
Departure airport: NZWK
Destination airport: NZPP
Narrative:
Pilot: Vernon Ross Wood.
Passenger: Dennis Patrick Mullooly.

Aircraft was on private flight by owner with experienced helicopter pilot with him.
Appears to have got tangled up in bad weather, remote mountainous terrain, collided with terrain while attempting 180 degree turn.
Aircraft destroyed by impact forces and post crash fire.

[[email protected]]

Probably worthy of note is that eye to hand co-ordination and being good on the sticks aren't actually the whole picture when assessing someone's qualities as a pilot.

Deliberately trimming trees and continuing to fly, along with all sorts of other extreme risk-taking (no matter how much you justify it by saying they were making a lot of money) does not qualify as good piloting.

If these guys had been flying in this manner to avoid enemy fire and fight a war, that would be a different thing entirely but they were just hunting deer.

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Well said CRAB.

All this talk of wild deer is whetting my appetite for a spot of venison!

[Old Age Pilot]

and my opinion is that YOU should stick to what you know about and that is flying a remote controlled heli at your local airport!Is this true AB? I presume not! Otherwise what kind of opinion IS this? One you are entitled to I guess.

These kind of jumped up comments have always bemused me, coming from presumably professional pilots.

Probably worthy of note is that eye to hand co-ordination and being good on the sticks aren't actually the whole picture when assessing someone's qualities as a pilot.

Deliberately trimming trees and continuing to fly, along with all sorts of other extreme risk-taking (no matter how much you justify it by saying they were making a lot of money) does not qualify as good piloting.

If these guys had been flying in this manner to avoid enemy fire and fight a war, that would be a different thing entirely but they were just hunting deer.Well said indeed. What right minded pilot would be comfortable treating a machine in this way and get in it and fly it again? AND ON THE SIDE OF A MOUNTAIN? And any comparisons to combat situations is just... well... showing a lack of knowledge of either!

Madness!

*&%$ Me!

How many rotor strikes did he have in that clip?

Someone who won't make old bones, that's for sure. What an idiot! ...is the attitude of a pilot I would want to get in and fly with!

[RVDT]

I wuz there!

Given this all happened about 30 years ago now.

These guys were not paid a retainer or on an hourly rate. Payment was only on what was captured and/or shot.

In the day's when a live hind was worth NZD 3500.00 straight off the hill the pilot and shooter were probably on roughly NZD 125.00 each or possibly more.

2-3 hour good run in the morning in the spring with a start about 0415 could end up with ~ 12 in the bag. A run in the evening could bring another 6 or so and finish around 2300. Rinse - repeat.

You do the numbers.

Nobody is saying it is a good or a bad thing although a lot of skills were learnt at the time probably similar to a military conflict and you certainly got paid about 10 times as much as some poor sod in the military.

I think our Chief Pilot at the time was about 25 years old and had about 7000 hours by then. Flying commercially since about 19. I dont think flight and duty times were invented then!

Maintenance wise it was all about availability and keeping your co-workers alive. Additional inspections above and beyond the maintenance manual were regularly conducted.

With blade strikes it was the case of course to inspect the blade and repair if within limits and if not replace.

The productivity was so high that we had a large holding of spares. Engine chip? Dont fluff around trying to troubleshoot and replace modules - chuck another engine in and get it back in the air! Same with gearboxes etc.

I remember going shopping one day to our parts supplier - A set of blades, an engine complete, various other parts. Gave him a check for 275K, threw it all in the back of our Cessna 206 and flew home!

It served me well and I got out of it at 24 years of age as LAME, Commercial Fixed Wing Multi, Commercial Helicopter pilot.

A large majority of these pilots went on to become the backbone of skills in places like PNG with Pacific etc. due to their experience in the mountains and with sling and long line.

In Un Zud a helicopter is like an a$$hole - everyone's got one. ~800 odd machines for about 4 million people. Granted these days about 320 odd are Franks offspring but that wasn't always the case. There appears to be only about 50 H500 variants left.

The 350 is probably the basis of things commercial with about ~ 120 between B thru B4. Also throw in about 20 ~ 355's.

AS,

Pavé of Venison was de rigueur. For breakfast in the winter and still warm when it hit the pan!

[tartare]

RVDT - great post.
They were different times.
While the film clip makes one's hair stand on end - it's also a remarkable demonstration of what an agile machine the little D-model is/was.
As a fellow kiwi - took a flight in the front seat of one as a wide eyed 8 year old who'd saved up all his pocket money, and have loved them ever since.

[[email protected]]

RVDT - you don't say if you actually flew in this environment, your post reads as if you were one of the engineers.

[RVDT]

Crab,

Certainly did. H300 and H500 for about 3 years.

And yes as one of the engineers which was not that unusual. I know of about 5 others who are LAMES and pilots.

[[email protected]]

I am guessing then that you weren't quite so cavalier with your rotor tips:ok:

[Agaricus bisporus]

Well, I'm sorely tempted to send the two sourpusses above toy remote controlled helicopters to practice crashing into trees while I get on with what I know - flying safely...

CH, skidbiter, you have a cool, calm Christmas eh? Chill. :ooh:

[Cleared-HOT]

We're the sourpusses AG LOL :D

Someone needs to take their meds.

Enjoy your piece of coal for Xmas.

Hey RVDT - Looks like we might get a remote controlled heli for Xmas. Bags the red one :ok:

[Biggles78]

No one was being shot at in NZ
TOTALLY incorrect. RVDT will be able to confirm that the choppers did come back with holes in them. Sand in the oil and sugar in the fuel (the 300s obviously) were two other methods (as opposed to being shot at) to keep the opposition on the ground while their areas were poached.

Back then a rotary CPL was 50 hours. After all the deer boys "troubles" this was raised to 150 hours. It was an interesting time in our history. On my CPL ground school course there were several ex shooters who were paying for the rotary CPLs from their venison jobs. Some of their stories I doubted until I read The Chopper Boys and I doubted no more. The shooters were crazy, no, insane may be a better word. The ones I knew made the money for what they wanted and then left. Some returned to the venison roundup but by then it was winding down and deer farms had been fairly well populated.

The 300s had a unique method of "lifting" their catch off the mountain. Carcases were dragged to and then down a river until the DA was sufficient to enable the rotors to physically lift the weight attached.

RVDT, were you around Te Anau or was it the Manapouri area during the time a crew reported finding a Moa in the bush? That was real funny though I guess the TV crew bosses weren't that happy at the hoax.

[skidbiter2]

RVDT
Thanks, obviously I am not good at putting words to print, and you did an excellent job of explaining how things were and are now.

Ag Bis
Yes you are right, I did need to chill, but you know how some days things just have a way of p1ss1ng you off, well I guess that was what happened to me, normally I just chuckle at comments made, but that day I bit back, I didn't have the will or the time to explain how it was, as RVDT did.

Times have changed, I missed out on the live recovery for the most part, but I did get my start as a shooter then onwards as a pilot hunting deer for a number of years, and I am proud to have had the chance to do so, it is the best flying I have ever had the chance to do, there is a movie out called "The Last Great Adventure", and that is exactly what it was, but I had aspirations for bigger machines and differing work so moved away from the hunting life and of coarse I fly a lot differently doing the job I do now, and so do the pilots that used to fly the 500's etc on recovery who now fly the cranes logging or on fires etc.

So sorry for spouting off the other day, prolly wasn't called for, I should have taken some of my own advice! :O

[Agaricus bisporus]

Skids, thanks, that was much appreciated. No hard feelings!

CH. Coal? What the heck has coal to do with it? I worry about you!

[RVDT]

B78,

In the twilight - is that somebody lighting a cigarette or muzzle flash?

Yes the rounds being supersonic it interacts with the blade pass - quite distinctive and once heard never forgotten!

3 times roughly - twice as a "joke" which is hard to explain here.

[500 Fan]

Here is a nice video from New Zealand from the very early eighties. It features ZK-HMB, a Hughes 500D operated by Alpine Helicopters Ltd. Doug Maxwell, one of the venison industry's legendary pilots, is flying with Colin Yeates (I think) shooting the net gun. The ship the helicopter departs from at the start is probably the Ranginui, a vessel Sir Tim Wallis purchased to support his helibourne deer recovery operation. The ship had a helideck just big enough to accommodate a pair of 500s and the hold was converted to store the carcasses, and later live deer! The flying in this video is actually quite tame by standard NZ venison recovery standards but the heli is still skilfully flown. The approach and nose-in to the bush at 11:00 is quite nice. The scenery isn't to shabby either.

Airborne | Archives New Zealand | ecast TV (http://www.ecasttv.co.nz/program_detail.php?program_id=2216&channel_id=60&group_id=)

This video should possibly have gone into the "Video Thread" but it has a nice nostalgic feel to it so I thought it might fit in better here.

500 Fan.

[Savoia]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-oz1dUDmOZ8Y/UK86_lrG5-I/AAAAAAAAK5w/7KNSIrHLkSM/s300/CH+Logo+1+s.png


500: Love them or loathe them .. the Kiwis and their deer hunting escapades of the 70's and 80's have written themselves into (let's be generous and say .. ) a fascinating chapter of Hughes history.

I first saw your video clip in the late 80's in Papua New Guinea as part of a set of VHS tapes which had been brought in by a rabble of Kiwi drivers who I happened to be sharing a crew house with. At one point (and for several months) there were only Kiwis to be found at the house .. with not a normal human being in sight! ;)

One of the rituals of the non-domestic rotary-flying Kiwi of the 1980's was that it had to watch and re-watch .. for hours on end .. video footage of Hughes 500's engaged in live deer capture. The flock of Kiwis I was temporarily domiciled with had a collecion of about 8-10 videos which were watched almost every evening with ritualistic fervour once everyone had drained away from the local Aero Club. From there it was back to the house and on with the videos .. beer in hand.

Despite the fact that every one of these Kiwis knew every frame of the video, this did not prevent them from cheering the hunting crews as they pursued their spoor and, as the beer flowed, so their encouragements became the more fevered and, after some time one could be 'treated' to immitation deer noises which, so I was told, were impressively authentic!

The chief protagonist in these tribal antics was a dear chap called 'Rusty' - a lovebale character and a pilot of the first water.

Memorable days indeed!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DmJDb7_UXrc/UT9WBVaAyoI/AAAAAAAAMTk/7yfEt3ZSzTE/s804/Rusty+%26+Mike.jpg
Rotorwork Hughes 500D P2-AHP at Rotorwork's Mount Hagen base in Papua New Guinea in 1988

Here Rusty is telling Mike to level his cyclic by referencing the tip path plane in relation to the T-tail in order to make sure that the 500's disk was level. Rusty has this 'thing' about drivers who didn't keep the disk level while on the ground and would literally run over and talk to a pilot if he saw the disk at an angle!

Some Kiwi nostalgia ..

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zrJwmXwtLDM/UT9WAwVqzyI/AAAAAAAAMTw/505lcAYp2vk/s680/Foxton+beach+in+transit+to+Inglewood+1985.+Dave+Kershaw+on+r ight+with+the+late+Dennis+Eggerton+wearing+helmet.+Alfie+Spe ights+at+helicopter.jpg
Hughes 500D ZK-HNR at Foxton beach en-route Inglewood in New Zealand's North Island in 1985

The late Dennis Eggerton (helmeted) with Dave Kershaw while Alfie Speights loads the 500.

[500 Fan]

Here is a link to all four parts of the documentary "Deer Wars" from NZ Television, some of which featured earlier in this thread. Lots of great footage of the Bell 47, Hiller UH-12, Hughes 300 and 500. Plenty of NZ humour, too. If you like good health & safety-type aviation operations, or fluffy little deer, then maybe this isn't the video for you.:E

Deer Wars - Television | NZ On Screen (http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/deer-wars-2007)

500 Fan.

[500 Fan]

Here are parts one and two of an American documentary on Sir Tim Wallis and his deer capture operation. This video deals with the live capture techniques only. The 17:00 minute mark in video one is interesting, showing a two-man pick-up from a tree top! The second video shows the skid-mounted net-gun in use.

New Zealand Deer Lift Part I - YouTube

New Zealand Deer Lift Part II - YouTube

500 Fan.

[RVDT]

Shooter - Colin Yates - LEGEND RIP 21st April 1983 Doubtful Sound NZ

[Kevin Sweeney]

The shooter in this film "Airborne" was my uncle
Kevin Hallett not Colin Yeates