R22/R44 Question

[CHOPPER74]

Why is it when Robinson have a blade problem that is obviosly the manufacturers stuff up/fault, we as the owners still have to pay the costs, even though reduced to fix the problem. Shouldnt this be like if you buy a new car and there is a part recalled, they do it and it costs the owner nothing. Is it only the Robinson company that does this or are the other manufacturers the same.
Pretty piss poor if you ask me.

[rotorspin]

agree 74, but how common is blade debonding? I know of very few instances even though the safety alert has come out - so do you really need to replace?

Its more that this company cover their backsides at every opportunity. How many people sit in a Nomex suit in a 22 or 44? :hmm:

[Sir HC]

Because we love aviation and would sell our soul if it meant we could have another day flying around in a tin can. Seriously though, the quality of the Robinson product has been appalling for a while now. I have dealt with a number of new machines and all have had one issue or another. You are dead right, if you brought a new BMW for $200,000 you would be well looked after by the dealership, you would expect the same from a helicopter company no? But then again, it's apples and oranges. By the way, apparently Frank's view on this is that if you don't like it, get something else.

[Tailboom]

I agree, I've just picked up the price for new #4 blades on my R22 while Robinson paid for most it still cost £1000's. We sell Renault cars and if your car comes into our Garage for any repairs we have to check the Chassis no against Renaults data base for any upgrades or safety recalls and these are then carried out free of charge. In fact we are measured monthly against any we might have missed.

In saying that the dash board on my Range Rover broke last week and Range Rover would only give a 50% cont to the replacement cost, that cost me a few hundred pounds the car is only 3 years old. Apparently it is a known fault infact my next door neighbours has done the same, so if you compare that to Robinsons policy then they are about the same. :*

[bladewashout]

Robinson offer a return to base warranty for parts, 1 year, which they honour, but you have to pay the shipping and lose the time, both of which can be considerable. It lasts a year, but in some instances dealers will let you buy add-on warranties including parts & labour for 2 years and 500+ hours.

All of this is public information before you buy, you should factor it into your calculations of how 'expensive' the helicopter is. If you buy an R22 or R44 outside the warranty period without the financial backup to handle an AD for something as expensive as a new set of blades, you are (in my opinion) taking a bit of a risk.

If Robinson had the kind of warranty some people wish for, it would have to be paid for through the purchase price and we would all end up paying more for our R22/R44 when only a small number of these issues arise (albeit expensive when they do!).

Occasionally car manufacturers have similar issues to the blade delamination, e.g. Jaguar engines a few years ago failing at 80k miles with piston liner corrosion, new engines were given up to about 6 years old, so the ideal situation can happen, but I think the margins and volume of Jaguar sales give more scope than the margins & volume of R22/R44 sales. Owners of K-series engined Freelanders & MGs whose head gaskets were popping every 30k miles got absolutely no help at all for repairs costing up to 20% of their car's purchase value. Again, you can gauge this kind of stuff when you buy the car - you're more likely to get help from BMW than Skoda, but in the long term the BMW will cost a lot more to run.

You get what you pay for, and I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find someone who will offer you an insurance deal on your blades, but it will cost a substantial amount, reflecting why Frank doesn't do it for free.

BW

[CHOPPER74]

Good Comment BW

[Drumpump]

agree 74, but how common is blade debonding? I know of very few instances even though the safety alert has come out - so do you really need to replace?

Its more that this company cover their backsides at every opportunity. How many people sit in a Nomex suit in a 22 or 44? :hmm:



In not so many year's between Australia and New Zealand there has been 5 main blade separation's in R22's. The last just outside sydney due to corrosion in the blade root. There was an A/D to take all dash 2 blades of and replace them prorata with dash 4 blades.
If you have a blade separate you generally will not need a nomex suit but one pax did survive a blade separation accident in Australia and a pilot in another in New Zealand while doing AG spaying.
Statistics and research say it does happen and with little warning.

[Graviman]

Having been involved in automotive powertrain redesign problems with the potential for recall, my thought is that as long as the blades are supplied and work performed at cost then all is right. I certainly apply that thinking when i get the local VW dealer to sort out spring fatigue failures and the like, and they are very good about it. That design oversights occur is fair, that anyone should make additional profit from such an oversight in unfair.

Mart

[topendtorque]

That design oversights occur is fair, that anyone should make additional profit from such an oversight in unfair.

Mart

Pay that
tet

[noblades]

Bad as Robinson may seem, Frank is light years ahead on back up and customer support when compared to Schweizer:mad: