Let410

[wannabe-aviator]

Dear All

Let me start by wishing you all ahappy 2007 may it be a great year ahead for your selves and families.

My question today is with regards to the LET410 type of Aircraft I was wondering if there are any G Registered ones here in the UK.

I know of only 3 Flying in the UK 2 with Manx 2 but they are leased and as far as I know they are not G registered the third one is with a Parashutting club down in the SouthWest I dont know the name of it all I know they operate it as a single pilot op Ive been trying to locate it on the CAA website but no luck.

If one was to Operate this Aircraft in the UK with some Avionics Upgrade like TCAS and RRVSM how likly and easy is it to be allowed on the UK register for Cargo Only Flights and will it be a single or 2 pilot requirements, any thoughts and advice is well appreciated.

regards
WA

[GusHoneybun]

Benair are operating two of these machines in the UK at the moment. Using them to run the mail around the north of scotland. However, these are on a danish register, but as you asked, they are currently being used in the UK for cargo operations.
Oh, and they run the aircraft two crew, and if I recall (wrongly), the LET410 is a bona fida multi crew aircraft. Apparently, it's the cheapest multi crew type rating on can do, something in the region of £4-5000.

[wannabe-aviator]

Cheers for the valuable info, BTW the Aircraft in Wales are they on the G- registar.

regards
WA

[CargoOne]

As far as I'm aware L410s type certificate is not EASA-recognised so it cannot be in commercial service with G-reg.
RVSM is a joke, small turpoprops never making that high where they need RVSM.
TCAS installation represents a 30 to 50% of aircraft cost so many operators opt to lower MTOW in order to escape from TCAS.
It is indeed two man crew only.

[wannabe-aviator]

Cargo1

Many thanks for your input, How can it be unwelcomed by the G register if there is as stated by our fellow Aviators that there is currently 2 Aircraft Flying Parashut jumps in Wales on top of the one I know, along with the Cargo Flights up in Scotland althought thse are operated under a foreign AOC and register.

I was under the Impression one can update the LET410 by placing aTCAS system as well as the RVSM or is that wrong info ive been given, I also know of one company that had this Aircraft (Falcon Airlines Ltd) offices registered in the docklands althought the address does suggest its a holding office but i am not sure if thier Aircraft was G registered.

Are the Cessna Caravans allowed on the G register or even the Beech 1900 ive not seen these types flying in the UK but the UK is such a large place and I am unaware of such Aircraft flying but am sure those with more info will soon straiten me out on this.

I would like to thank everyone for thier contineous help and input and wish you all many happy and safe landings.

regards
WA

[mmeteesside]

The Benair flights up in Scotland are now operated by a Shorts 360 and a Metro (at the moment)

As for Cessna Caravans, well Airmed have one on the G-register I believe

[Frogga]

There are a fair number of Cessna caravans on the UK Register, many of them being privately owned, and a fair number of them based in the channel islands. I know of 1 at Gloucester (G-EELS) and 1 based on the Isle of Man (G-OAKW).

Hope this helps

Andrew

[CargoOne]

wannabe-aviator

Don't be confused! Paradropping is normally a non-commercial activity (even it may seem to be commercial). You don't need to have an AOC to do paradropping flights. So private G-reg L410s can do it.
And as you said cargo is carried by non-G operated aircraft.

By the way, G-INFO database at UK CAA is not showing any G-reg L410.

Yes you can install TCAS on L410 but not RVSM. You need RVSM-capability only in RVSM airspace, and L410 will never make that high flight levels.

Caravan and Beech 1900 is no problem to operate on G-reg.

[wannabe-aviator]

Dear All

Am ever so greatfull for taking the time out in order to answer my questions I never knew that we had the Caravan here in the UK id love the chance to go and see one I will look out where Airmed are Based and ask them if I can have a look at it, also I was under the impression that Air Atlantic was the last operator of a Metro III.

Cargo 1 no not to worry I kinda understand what you mean about not needing an AOC for parashut jumps as for RVSM does it mean if a L410 had TCAS technically one could ask the CAA about placing it on G reg I will call them on Monday and ask them directly about this got nothing to loose really, again thanks for everyone's help.

Regards
WA

[2close]

The 2 x Let 410's in Swansea are on the Hungarian register and are curently being operated by Swansea Parachuting (Club?). I understand that they are Type Rated a/c and require Multi-Pilot crews.

2close

[SmilingKnifed]

Very close 2close.;)

The two aircraft are on the Hungarian register but only one is multi-crew. The other is an FG model (with an extended nose canopy for it's former photographic role) as opposed to the UVP. I'm told by the examiner that this is the only single pilot L410 currently operational.

[Dried ears]

The Benair Let is away in Denmark for routine maintenance, there are no plans for its permanent replacement, apparently.

They are unpressurised aren't they, so how would they fly easily up to RVSM airspace anyway, although I guess masks might make it possible, although as is said above the ceiling is below those flight levels? I'm confused, which occurs often these days! :confused:

[Ronaldsway Radar]

There certainly is a Caravan over here, kept in very good condition.

Seen it plenty of times, but never got any pictures of it!

RR

[petesevenseven]

As a Pilot on the LET410 for one of the LET410 Operators in the UK. I can confirm we are not operating the LET on a G-Reg but rather on another EU- JAA member state Register. I can also confirm that the Aircraft we operate ARE fitted with TCAS and as of 1 Jan 2007 in order to operate in UK airspace the LET410 is Required to be fitted with EGPWS. Which our aircraft also have fitted.

I might also add that our client's are very happy with the LET410 as it is one of the most reliable twin turbo-props out there!!! It just doesnt break, and its because of this that its comparibly cheap to operate from an operators perspective!!!!!!

And I'm also happy to Confirm that the LET410 is Unpressurized and as such doesn't operate in an RVSM environment.

I have no doubts if need be the LET could go on the G-Reg if need be. I got my JAA ATPL unfrozen by the UK CAA on the basis on an ATPL Skills test on the LET410 so that says that the UK CAA definately recognises the LET410 as a multi-pilot aircraft type.

I hope that answers a few questions on this nice little aircraft that I believe deserves sooo much more recognition than what it has.


Happy Landings!!!!!


Pete:ok:

[wannabe-aviator]

Thanks again for the flood of Valuable information it has been a great help and I am ever soo great full.

PETE, How about getting me a ride on that LET410 that you fly, Please.

regards
WA

[CargoOne]

petesevenseven

Just one point - L410s on EU register are those which been there before EASA time (and mostly in East European countries) and that's why they are still there. However there never been G-reg L410 and unless LET and EASA will agree on a type certificate recognision you will not be able to put L410 on G-reg for commercial operations.

[Dried ears]

Is it true as stated above by Gus, that a LET 410 type rating is only £4000- £5000? I heard it was roughly twice this, but would be happy to be corrected.

[Kitoro Kid]

Are you Let410 Pete from ex Uganda? Eagle Air?

[petesevenseven]

Kitoro Kid

Salamia a Tony Rubombora when you see him!!!!!

Pete!!!!!

[lennu]

Have heard that EASA will have to decide this march if L-410 (and what versions )will get certificated to fly commertially. Anyone knows more about this? Also wondering if there r any openings for co-pilots with type rating on L-410 UVPE in UK.


Happy landings

lennu

[wannabe-aviator]

Are there any DC3's flying in the UK and also can a Piper Cheiftain be Flown single pilot if its doing Cargo Flights if so what is the average cargo it can hold.

regards
WA

[velez2]

http://http://www.easa.eu.int/home/tc_aircraft_en.html

And as a pilot on L410 I agree with pete it's a great and reliable bird. And besides nonpresurization another thing keeps it out of RVSM level and that thing is a fancy litlle placard on the "dashboard" and it says:
'MAX operating FL without O2 FL100'
and also...
'MAX operating FL140'

Cheers to all especially to pilots from Ben Air Adam and Frank!

HAPPY LANDINGS!

[WHBM]

'MAX operating FL without O2 FL100'
I am surprised at this as having done quite a few parachute drops from 12-13,000 feet from an L410 the crew never seemed to be on oxygen at all. This was on a Ukrainian-registered one which operated in the UK a few years ago. And it was crewed by one pilot and one flight engineer, or so they described themselves.

[2close]

The two that were operating at Swansea until recently regularly called climbing through FL 135 on their way up to 150.

[Ronaldsway Radar]

I flew to Blackpool on a Cheiftan with only one pilot so I think it's safe to say it's possible?

Cheers,
RR.

[velez2]

I fly regularely at FL140 when operation conditions allow it or demand it, but that is still almost half of the altitude at wich you enter the RVSM flight levels so it is imposible to imagine a L410 equiped for it because there is no possibility that you would ever need it.
Also for your info I happen to know a guy who flew test flights on the secound prototype and he climbed it almost to FL250 but he said to me that is irreasonable to fly it above FL170 because performance is so poor and it can be done only with empty aircraft.
Never the less for operations it was intended to (read "mule" kind of job) it is almost perfect aircraft. the problem is that a lot of them fly with poor or no maintenance and MTOW is almost always below actual TOW.This makes bad comercial for this, if you ask me, beautiful bird.

[velez2]

The law is the law, so the placards are printed in relation with law. Reality is something quite different.....:cool::)

[WHBM]

It's interesting to read these comments about poor higher-altitude (well, not too high actually) performance of the Turbolet.

We skydivers were absolutely amazed at its performance in comparison to what we were used to. I know you are probably starting to laugh when I compare it to a Cessna, but 8 minutes to 12,000 feet with 18 POB and minimal fuel was just out of this world. Our old C206 would run out of puff by about 9,000 feet and be doing about 300fpm if we were lucky. The Turbolet was regarded as a real high-performance aircraft. Oh well.

There were photographs in a skydiving magazine some years ago of an L410 which, after the jumpers exited, was pretty much keeping up with them in freefall on the way down in a near-vertical attitude (10,000 fpm descent). I wonder how close to the airframe limits they were !

By the way, a visitor to the drop zone one day who saw us going up to 13,000 feet asked if the aircraft was pressurised..........

[J McK]

I worked at BFS for 2 years in dispatch and Manx2 was an airline we handled. They mostly used 2 L410's registered OKUBA and OKRDA. The crews were the best crews (mostly from Germany & Czech Rep) I worked with whilst at BFS, good craic and very helpful, told a few interesting stories!

[rabcnesbitt]

There is no problem with putting the L 410 on the G reg. All L 410 marks have now got an EASA TC. They only haver to be fitted with TCAS when the MTOW is above 5,700kgs and EGPWS when kitted out for more than 9 pax. Ideal replacement for the larger piston twins and the bandit.

[maxpwr]

The L420 and L410 UVP-E20 have full EASA approval. There are for example 2 L410 on French Register fitted with both TCAS 2 and EGPWS.
RVSM is only required for operation above FL 290...Obviously n/a for unpressurised short sector commuter

[wannabe-aviator]

Where can someone get a TR for the LET410 and does an FO need a TR for this Aircraft or are they single Pilot if in Cargo configurations.

How much is the TR Ive googled and googled again but no luck on price or provider.

WA:ugh:

[maxpwr]

Letsfly in Ostrava Czech rep.

www.letsfly.cz

ACFT is 2 Crew only

[menikos]

Do you know how much is it ?

Link doesn't work right now maybe later.

Thanks

[yanafrica]

L410 type rating at let 's fly ostrava approx 5000€ (not too long ago)
nice place in the area request to stay at "uz vonu" hotel in kunovice transport provided
for more infos contact Pavel
[email protected] (http://mail1.voila.fr/webmail/fr_FR/aBook.html#)

[menikos]

5000 euros it was nice because now it's:
Entry requirements :
- Licence ATPL or CPL ( IR )
- Required total flown hours for co-pilot 200h (100 as PIC )
- Frozen ATPL for co-pilot ( passed theory exams ATPL )
- MCC course or MPA plane flown before.
- Valid ME IR
- Valid Medical certificate
- TRTO ie JAR certified, not FAR
MCC + L410 TYPE RATING TRAINING COURSE
Ground school 5 days ( 30hours )
Cockpit Procedures Training ( 6 hours )
Simulator training 7 days ( 7 lessons - 28 hours ) Price 6 250,- EUR
Aircraft base training 1 day ( 3,5 hours ) Price 3 450,- EUR
TRE check ( 1 hour ) Price 1 000,- EUR
Total duration of this course 14 training days
Total price for this course is 10 700 EUR+19%VAT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL PRICE FOR MCC + L410 INITIAL TYPE RATING IS 10 700,-EUR + 19%VAT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[wannabe-aviator]

What are wages for a FO and a Captain on board a LET410 if one is forking out close to 12 000 Euros with accmodation and travel costs and so on.

WA

[rmac]

Try Lubomir Hlavac at Seagle Air, Trencin Airfield, Slovak Republic. He will do you a JAA L410 type rating at a reasonable price. www.seagleair.com (http://www.seagleair.com)

[wannabe-aviator]

Thier English site isnt working so I cannot understand anything they are saying.

Besides where are jobs for this type of Aircraft and what are wages thats the most important info for anyone considering any type rating.

WA

[menikos]

Mainly in Africa, maybe in Europe also maybe it worth to check before.

[rmac]

wannabee

Just email Lubo your questions in English, a number of his staff and instructors are fluent.

Seagle air will not give you a job, they are mostly a training establishment, but if you want a TR they are cost effective.

Most work is in Africa, and East Air Company in Bratislava has heavy maintenance contracts with a few and probably can put you in touch, if you are serious about it, but no guarantees.

[wannabe-aviator]

I know a start up here in the UK Looking for CPT and FOs type rated on the LET410 hence the interest I dont want to go to Africa for a Job.

wa

[The Dominican]

These are fantastic machines, I flew the UVP and the UVP-E models in the Dominican Republic. Rugged, noisy, and rough around the edges bud man it is a work horse.:ok:

[menikos]

Seagle Air don't do anymore the rating on the LET since 18 months, only let's fly do it.

[IRISHPILOT]

A nice aircraft to fly.

may i draw attention to the airline in the UK planning to operate the L410:

http://www.cwcair.co.uk/news.php

and a related thread:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=262426

WA: It seems the only JAR TRTO is in OSR as mentioned, so that is where CWC will be doing their LPCs and OPCs, their SOPs probably being a close cope from somewhere else, who trains in the same TRTO. So you just need to ask in OSR. Make sure you do at least part of the rating with someone else (if only the OPC with a CWC guy, saves you a bunch...

And our VAT rate on services is still 5%, not 19.

cheers, IP.