2006 Qantas Cadets

[thrills]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone can tell me where the level two (I assume the level one cadets are still completing their training) 2006 Qantas cadets have endend up? I have heard there are a couple still waiting to be placed??? Sounds like money has been pissed up against the wall if you have to wait months for a job....:ok: good work

I have also heard that there are a few of them who have been employed by Brindabella, mac air, and Sunstate. Can anyone verify this for me?

Happy new year to all of you

[WynSock]

I have also heard that there are a few of them who have been employed by Brindabella, mac air, and Sunstate. Can anyone verify this for me?



Cant verify that but I would have thought it a bit odd to put a 200 hr cadet in the right seat of a Dash. That is not a safe place to learn how to fly...

I think the dash8 travelling public would probably agree.

:hmm:

[ABX]

WynSock,

I would have thought it a bit odd to put a 200 hr cadet in the right seat of a Dash.

I was under the impression that this is exactly what they do.:}

Maybe thrills can confirm?

[neville_nobody]

Skippers have QF cadets in the right seat of their Dash's.

Whats not normal about that. 200hr pilots in the UK are in the right seat of 737 and bigger!


What's not normal is that in Australia there is no need to do it. The reason that airlines do is that QF is slipping them a few George Washingtons to take their cadet pilots.

In Europe and Asia 200hr co pilots are only there out of necessity as there is no alternative. However a few operaters are now starting to realise that having cadets is no such a great idea as they are now struggling to find people to qualify as direct entry captains.

[kellykelpie]

I fly with cadets as FOs on the A320 and they are fantastic. I wish a lot more of our FOs were cadets.

That's not knocking the GA guys. My backgound is GA and I know how hard it is. But just like any good GA pilot, these guys know the books, have a great attitude and they can fly very well.

[Puchatek]

200 hour cadets "learning to fly" in in the right seat? Holy Shi*, remind me not to fly Oconnors, Airnorth, Skippers, Pearl, National Jet, Ma*air, Jetstar and who knows who else in the coming months! Looks like it's Greyhound buses for me from now on:}

[goodonyamate]

2006 Cadets...who's waiting?
Just thought I'd see how many Level 2 cadet applicants are waiting to hear either yay or nay or have already got "the phone call". Don't know about others but the wait is slowly sending me insane.

Oh and Puchatek, do you recognise this post from early 2006????

Sounds like someone might have missed out on the opportunity to be placed at some of these operators. Deary me.

Good luck in 'the big bad world of GA' as you put it, in the same thread. (Or in the bus driving industry - whatever you choose to do)
:D

[Di_Vosh]

Goodonyamate,

I think that Putachek was being sarcastic :hmm:

[mattgitau]

Yep - I would much rather know that the F/O of any aircraft i was a passenger on had spent thousands of hours flying a C-182 in the middle of nowhere, because that would be so much more valuable than someone who had passed a Ground School, and Simulator course to obtain a Type Rating to operate a sophisticated Airliner to Airline Standard SoP's.............especially if we had to do a practice forced landing into a paddock somewhere!
Why do Australians think that they are superior to other parts of the world when it comes to the qualifications required to sit in the RHS of a modern Airliner. If you are trained to do the job - you can do it.
I dont see aircraft dropping out of the sky all over Europe because the 200hr F/O accidently switched the Fuel control Switch to off instead of pressing the cabin Crew call button!!!
I have flown in both parts of the world, and believe me.......the naivety of some of the contributors to this area of this sight never ceases to amaze me..........maybe there is a reason some of them havent yet made it into that elusive RHS........and it has nothing to do with how much money they are prepared to pay for a job.

[R.Cruizo]

I too have spent time in Australia and overseas. In times of high work load it's an advantage to have an experienced Pilot in the right seat ; I'll take that choice anyday.

Nobody is knocking cadets!!! Everybody started their careers with 200hrs+.

I just think it's a bit rough QF spreading it's cadets throughout the industry and in many cases displacing others trying to work their way up. Fine if they want to do it with their own Regionals.

As mentioned previously on this thread, there is also the question of Command Upgrades. No easy task for the likes of Skippers, Smackair etc to upgrade someone with 3000hrs and 100hrs Command.They will still require either some experienced new hires or hire Direct Entry Captains.

In Europe, Asia etc Pilots straight out of flying school go straight into the right seat of a Saab 340, B737 etc because there are no other Pilots available; and with the proper trainning they do a very good job!

But in Australia we have such a large GA pool , there are plenty of guys and gals with some experience to choose from and put through the same Sim and line trainning.

[Puchatek]

Dear oh dear oh dear.
goodonyamate, true my mind may be small but at least it :mad: works. FYI i was actually trying to express to wynsock and the like just how widespread cadets are in the industry with the various operators and so with just a hint of sarcasm that there's no hope for the travelling public now is there with guys in the RHS who apparently dont know what they are doing.
And please next time before you go and search my previous posts and then make a huge assumption to use as ammunition to share with everyone, perhaps read and re-read it to make sure you aren't going to make a fool of yourself:ok: BTW i did 'get in' and am still learning to fly with one of the above mentioned operators. Not far off solo now i think.

[kegabeer]

and spare a thought for us all for when the MPL system of licensing gets going...:rolleyes: :ugh:

[Puchatek]

Touchy touchy.....



No, not touchy at all. I just found it intriguing that you firstly misinterpreted what I thought was a fairly obvious post and secondly you seemed to go to so much effort between your first and second contribution to find some dirt on me so you could slander off and make yourself look good. And i thought that kind of thing only went on in primary schools:8
Anyway, i'm just as bad for responding so before this thread deviates too far off topic or turns into another cadet bashing thread i'll contribute to the orginal question.
Thrills- Yes some cadets are still waiting to be placed but will be so very soon, who knows where. There are currently no cadets in sunstate or brindabella that i am aware of.

[BackdoorBandit]

Whats not normal about that. 200hr pilots in the UK are in the right seat of 737 and bigger!


Whats not normal is that flying a Dash in and out of non radar, uncontrolled ports, is a hell of lot different to being spoon fed whilst flying into controlled ports with radar coverage.

Sure, cadets can do it, BUT it is not AS safe, AND we don't have to do it.

There must be 50 Metro's flying around Oz today, and at least half the crew in them would be more than suitable for an Airline seat, not to mention the crews in similar machines plying our skys today. AND here we are argueing that Cadets are suitable - what a friggin laugh.

[mattgitau]

mmmm' Backdoorbandit' - it must be so difficult to fly a relatively sophisticated turbo-prop into an non radar, uncontrolled AD.....just imagine if another aircraft was in the circuit!! wow....that would mean you would have to fly the plane, look out the window, monitor TCAS, make radio calls try and get some sort of Situational Awareness going on.....wow.......just imagine how much easier it would be if there were two of you sitting up the front.

I guess it must be so easy for those spoon fed jet drivers over here....i mean how hard can it be to fly a jet, try and maintain some kind stabilised approach whilst slowing down or speeding up - (depending on traffic), trying to maintain S.A, monitor TCAS, talk on the radio, make last minute changes to CDU's, Fly approaches to the absoute minima in crap weather, on absolute min fuel......mmmmmm i can see how much easier it is in the spoon-fed world.....boy........i am suprised that dont do the whole boeing/Airbus thing single pilot IFR.....actually why not VFR - turn the x-ponder off and use a different call sign to avoid Airways charges.

You have it all figured out!......i really dont know how those Metro's do it.....maybe it would be safer if they all just stayed on the ground.

AND here we are argueing that Cadets are suitable - what a friggin laugh.it .......mmmmmmmm......lets see.......i was a cadet........and a GA Driver.....and a Metro driver.........and now a wide-body driver.......all in the space of 5 years..........mmmmmmmmmm was i never suitable......mmmmmmm ''what a friggen laugh''. my 'friend' the joke is on YOU

[brown_hornet]

dr_doLiTTle
that has got to be the best post this thread has seen thus far. Not to echo your thoughts, but everyone is really tired of the same old argument everytime that cadets aren't 'qualified' enough or don't deserve to sit in the RHS of a dash or similar aircraft. I am a cadet and have plenty of mates in GA and true, sometimes i have wondered why the cadetship is neccessary as there are heaps of 210/206 drivers etc that are eager to move on up. The fact is though that it is here to stay for the foreseeable future and I think rather than bitch and moan about it, a bridge needs to be built. At the end of the day, there's going to be people up the front of airliners from a military background, GA background and cadet background amongst others so get over it. I'm sure guys from each of those backgrounds would have equally valuable war stories to tell not to mention ability.
As for some people's misguided thoughts that in the RHS of a dash or whatever is not a safe place to be, and I quote, "learning how to fly", exactly when has someone reached the pinnacle and learnt how to fly? Is it the 20th, 50th, 100th hour of flying a 210 around the bush? Aviation is one of those industries where you are still learning throughout your ENTIRE career so don't use that argument. Cadets join these said operators after a pretty intense traning period which focuses heavily on multicrew procedures so are more than prepared for what's ahead. I have no doubt that the average GA pilot's manipulative ability might be more polished but on the flipside I also know of GA pilots who have struggled to make the move to multi-crew procedures after spending a fair bit of time in single pilot operations. There are pros and cons to both sides.
Enough said (hopefully, or should i put on my bullett proof vest?).

[podbreak]

I heard there's even cadets on the a320 with jetstar asia....yet no hull losses recorded! :eek: I know WynSock, I know... it surprises me too :}

This is a typical and highly ignorant point of view. If you are even remotely worried about the experience level, and skill, of these folks because they don't have the same time as F/Os in Australia, you have your worries misplaced. Comment on their quality when you've got one sitting next to you on the flight deck.

[ABX]

Could someone please disable mattgitau's ....... full stop key?:}

[bushy]

They should ALL be cadets. And the airlines should pay the bills.

[B A Lert]

They should ALL be cadets. And the airlines should pay the bills.

Reallllllllly? Why, and why? Why should airlines be (a) charities, (b) educational/trainiung establishments, and (c) other than in the business of carrying people and freight?

[bushy]

Because for years Australia's major airlines have been bludging off the GA and military systems for recruits. They got lots of ex military pilots that had been trained at taxpayers expense, and used it as a buckshee training school. Eventually the military woke up and wrote contracts that ensure they get a reasonable return of service.
GA has been flooded by a large inflow of wannabies who just want to use the industry as a logbook filling exercise, and have no interest in the job. Many are working for nothing. Some are paying for ICUS, and this is being used to subsidise cheap charter. This is encouraging a group of operators who exploit them for operations that would otherwise be unviable. It is encouraging the pooer quality operators who, like many of the wannabies are only looking for a short term advantage.
GA needs a return of service too. A continual turnover of apprentice pilots is not good for economics or safety. So- no more free endorsements or training.
They have killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
B Alert
The GA charter industry is not here just to provide cheap training for airline pilots either.
The cadet system at least gives them an assessment before they spend their money, and they have a reasonable chance of sucess.That is the important thing. If the airlines were serious they would contribute to the training of the chosen ones. If they do not they should at least interview and assess and sign an agreement with them.
Outside the cadet system there is just what appears to be a huge confidence trick that takes peolpes money.
All because of the obscene lottery which is being run by our bludging airlines. For every pilot who gets an airline job many, many wannabies are trained to cpl level and beyond, with nowhere to go.

[Icarus53]

:D dolittle, hornet - at least someone can throw a bit of perspective at this endlessly debated topic. Having seen the thread earlier today I had resolved to post something similar and returned only to see my thunder had well and truly been stolen.

Not that I'm a cadet fan, I just can't stand an argument based in emotion or arbitrary figures/standards. Show me a pilot that bends his plane for lack of knowledge or flying ability and I'll happily take a number to say he shouldn't have had the job - cadet or otherwise. There's enough posts in this site from (purportedly) experienced airline captains saying they've flown with high standard cadet FO/SOs to throw any other arguments on the quality/safety front out the door.

I harken back to a post from our good friend Keg some time ago reminding us that there are heaps of military pilots getting around who've never flown a piston and only have a few hundred hours but somehow manage (soon) to be able to handle A330, B737, C17, C130 etc into uncontrolled poorly prepared strips - perhaps with an AD threat.:ooh: All that without reaching the magic 2013th hour when you get issued your command ability and situational awareness, yet relatively few RAAF bashing posts get around the site.

Good luck to the cadets waiting for a job - I trust the hard work you'll have to put in to be a competent and safe turbine RPT pilot will be well rewarded. All the same to any GA pilots waiting for that magic phone call.

Can we now put a final end to the subject of whether or not these guys should be allowed the privilege of an airline job so these threads can stick to responses that might actually give the thread starter the information they were seeking???