Dumb question from fixed-wing student?

[Nil Flaps]

Watching heli-pilots depart our airfield (and a few shows on TV) makes me believe that the PIC of a helicopter sits on the right, as opposed to the left seat when flying a fixed-wing aircraft. Is there a specific reason for being on the other side?

Sorry if it's a stupid question but I'm curious! :ouch:

[Gomer Pylot]

Just because. It's tradition. It's also easier. Why a fixed-wing pilot sits on the left has always stumped me. It requires flying left-handed much of the time, because the throttle(s), mixture, radios, and everything else are on the right. If you're in the right seat, everything is on the left, so you can use your left hand to do other stuff while you maintain control with your right.

There are a couple or eleven threads on this subject in the archives. A quick search should give you a few days' reading.

[Heliport]

Here's a start -

Why do helicopter pilots sit on the right? (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50499)

[Nil Flaps]

Thanks fellas :ok:

[helopat]

Ya know, it really IS more of a question of why do fixed wing drivers sit on the left in my mind...in single seat airplanes (tactical jets and military training aircraft) the stick is handled in the right hand and the throttles handled with the left hand (so, similar to how right seat captains handle controls in a helicopter)...why multi crew airplanes put the captain in the left seat is anyones guess.

Just my two cents worth.

HP

[Bravo73]

why multi crew airplanes put the captain in the left seat is anyones guess.


Most probably due to aviation's 'nautical heritage'. Ships would dock into port on the 'Port' side (because the starboard side had the 'steering board' on it). Therefore, passengers always load from the port side.

Now carry this over to aircraft (which they have). If you then put the Captain in the left hand seat, it allows him/her to easily monitor the loading by looking out the port window!


OTOH, it might be just that the majority of multicrew aircraft were first developed in countries which drove on the right hand side of the road (hence the driver sits on the left). Maybe the designers just carried over this principle... :ok:

[Gomer Pylot]

If we're going to be nautical, why does the captain steer in the first place? You'll never ever see a ship's captain steering, or even touching any controls. He just monitors things and gives orders.

[havoc]

http://whitts.alioth.net/Page0Major%20topic%20headings.htm#anchor14652

Why Airplane Pilots Sit on the Left Side
Behind many of the things we do in flying lies a long history. This often dates well before flying. Have you ever wondered why left patterns are standard? Before airplanes and cars, men rode horses. Most people are right handed. As a matter of good practice weapons were carried on the right side and kept available to the right hand. Since it was always desirable to keep the right hand and weapon available, horses were mounted from the left side. using the left hand for lift by pulling on the saddle horn. To keep the right hand free from attack on the narrow roads of England they rode on the left side of the track. This forced an attacker to cross an open space. This also kept the right hand available for for attack or defense against oncoming travelers. I have not yet found the logic for why the Americans drive on the right side.

By happenstance, the military cavalry was the least dogmatic of the services in all countries. When the military adopted the airplane, the cavalry was the natural choice for pilot selection. The cavalry looked upon the airplane as another mode of transportation like the horse. Best to be mounted from the left as by habit. Early cavalrymen nee' pilots were even required to wear spurs. Did I really say the least dogmatic of the services?

You will need to search old film very hard to see an old time aircraft being mounted from the right by the pilot. I have never seen such. In fact, most passengers mounted from the left. When aircraft were designed for side by side seating, the pilot in command (captain) sat on the left. The preferred pattern direction was left because that gave the pilot better visibility. By convention the standard traffic pattern is now to the left.



WHY PILOTS WALK FUNNY
Ever wonder why propeller pilots walk funny? They do. The P-factor explanation from the instructors handbook tells the instructor how to explain this to the student. It has nothing to do with how much liquid consumed? Part of the difficulty comes from having two or more generations of pilots, none of whom have had the opportunity to drive a team of Missouri Canaries. Mules that is. This educational and experience deficiency can be partially overcome while explaining the P-factor. Thereby leading to the ultimate answer of the initial question.

Start with an airplane which has the training wheel under the nose. A Cessna 152 will do. With all three wheels on the ground the student should be carefully walked around the propeller to note that, when the aircraft and propeller is horizontal, the blades each form approximately an 11 degree angle in pitch from the vertical. The airplane should be imagined as a wagon and the painted tips of the blades as harnessed to two mules of identical size and strength. In this configuration the wagon (airplane) would be pulled straight ahead until made to gee or haw. Gee meaning right and haw meaning left. O.K. so far?

Now have the instructor hold the aircraft tail down while the student observes the angle from vertical the pitch of each propeller blade. The left blade is near vertical while the right blade has doubled its angle. Now the airplane/wagon suddenly has two completely different mules. The left blade mule becomes of donkey size or less while the right blade becomes a dray that once pulled a beer wagon. Now which way will the wagon, nee airplane, go? Will it gee or haw?

More often than not our last two generations of student pilots will chose the wrong direction. The odoriferous experience of mule driving having been denied them. Using the wing struts to move the airplane should show the student the error of his ways. Then it follows as the night the day that in a climb attitude an appropriate application of right rudder is needed to keep the airplane on the straight if not narrow. Whatever it takes to prevent a "haw" Which, of course, leads us in the great cyclonic circle to the answer of the initial question. It takes a lot of "Gee" Leg to prevent a "Haw".

[219joochiat]

[quote=Gomer Pylot;3054927]Just because. It's tradition. It's also easier. Why a fixed-wing pilot sits on the left has always stumped me. It requires flying left-handed much of the time, because the throttle(s), mixture, radios, and everything else are on the right. If you're in the right seat, everything is on the left, so you can use your left hand to do other stuff while you maintain control with your right.

But that's precisely because in fixed wing we sit on the left: because the majority is right handed and there's so much else to do than holding the stick. Actually, once it's trimmed why do you want to touch everything, without even talking about auto pilots...
I feel much better using my right hand to tune a GPS, Radio, Xponder, programming the MCDU which are all in the center etc....without even saying you have more room to move your arm to write something when from the left seat, etc....

[IntheTin]

Great post Havoc :ok:

[Um... lifting...]

http://whitts.alioth.net/Page0Major%20topic%20headings.htm#anchor14652I have not yet found the logic for why the Americans drive on the right side.
Easier to shoot across the body... swords schmords...:hmm:

What about a Spitty... where the prop turns t'other way...

[Bravo73]

I have not yet found the logic for why the Americans drive on the right side.


Because by the time our Colonial cousins set up their road network, there were fewer concerns with having to hold swords in their right hands.

The major issue was cart/wagon drivers and their whips (which were also primarily held in the right hand). By putting the vehicles on the right hand side of the road, the drivers would generally avoid whipping each other! ;)

[22clipper]

PIC position in the Hughes 500 is the left seat, well the one I got my endorsement in was.

[Bravo73]

PIC position in the Hughes 500 is the left seat, well the one I got my endorsement in was.

That's the exception that proves the rule!

The LHS PIC in H500 and certain 300/269 models is due to the 'three across the front' seating arrangement. If 3 seats are needed, the central collective is replaced by the bench seat. It would then be very tricky to be PIC from the RHS!

[ConwayB]

Aircraft captain in Chinook and Black Hawk - Left hand seat (most of the time)
Co-pilot in above aircraft - Right Hand Seat (most of the time)

WHY? The Aircraft Captain (PIC) is usually responsible for running the mission which is more difficult than flying the aircraft, therefore the job of flying is done primarily by the co-pilot - therefore the Captain's seat in those two aircraft is usually the left hand seat. (Also, in the Chinook, the left hand pilot usually does the start and shutdown procedures and steers using the steering control from the left seat leaving the other pilot to keep his/her hands and feet on the controls at all times.)

Flying pilot in right hand seat?

WHY? The very early helicopters had their controls fed straight to the mixing unit which was centrally located and there was seldom a second set of controls. Therefore having the collective in the centre of the aircraft meant less linkages - therefore flying pilot sits in right hand seat.

FW pilot in left hand seat?

WHY? I like the cavalry explanation the best. Also, the predominance of countries that drive LH drive cars has meant that that has carried over into aviation with the US leading the way. There are 18 countries around that world that still drive RH drive cars on the LH side of the road - mainly countries with a British colonial heritage with the notable exception of Japan.
(UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Fiji, Japan, etc, etc)

The reason for this has been put down to horse and carts and whips etc... and also Roman legions marching on one side of the road in Britain and on the other side of the road on the continent. It's also put down to Napoleon's conquest of Europe.

[ConwayB]

Yep, the MD500/H369 is normally flown from the LHS for the reason stated above by Bravo 73, but the military OH-6/MH-6 is flown from the RHS. No bench seating there! Maybe it's a little too cramped with all the body armour and weapons one has to carry to squeeze three across the front.

CB

[Whirlygig]

The LHS PIC in H500 and certain 300/269 models is due to the 'three across the front' seating arrangement.
I thought it was because Hughes said, "Only poofs and perverts sit on the right!"

Cheers

Whirls

[Um... lifting...]

Hughes didn't say that... only Brits use the word 'poof'.:rolleyes:

[spinwing]

Mmmm....

I have wasted years in various bars discussing this with many aviation type drunks ... ooh I mean pilots ...

After sufficient liquid logic was applied to the subject it seemed to be decided that the reason (originally) the command position was on the left side of the cockpit was because of provisions in those very famous "Rules of the Air".

When overtaking, passing slower aircraft (Zepplins etc) trying to avoid a head on collision etc etc etc safe manouvering required alteration of heading to the RIGHT .... therefore in order to continue to keep the other aircraft in safe sight the best place for ones bum was to be on the left hand side of the aircraft. :eek:

Of course as all rules were meant to be broken .... so various helicopter manufactures have over time decided that due to the inconvenience of the classic controls set out it was necessary to put the helicopter captain on the RH seat for ease of "knob twiddleing" whilst also trying to keep the silly machine the right way up!

Howzat sound??? ;) :E

[Bravo73]

... the command position was on the left side of the cockpit was because of provisions in those very famous "Rules of the Air".

<snip>therefore in order to continue to keep the other aircraft in safe sight the best place for ones bum was to be on the left hand side of the aircraft. :eek:
Howzat sound??? ;) :E

Ah spinwing, but surely that leads to another conundrum:

Which came first? The "driver on the left" or the "Rules of the Air"? :8




PS Sorry for calling you Shirley... ;)

[spinwing]

Mmmm.......

Good question .... I believe the drunken quorum comprised a few of Her Majestys Senior Service types (retired of course) and they said something about the "Rules" having been "lifted" from the Maritime chaps .... thus the rules were considered to have been in place first!

You know those Navy types ... always right ;)


Cheers :O

[jetflite]

I always thought it was for ease of accessing radios, nav aids etc. &
it evolved from the Vietnam Era, where the PIC would sit on the right because there's less panel so he can view more, and to give the new guys time in the left seat where there aircraft commander would predominantly sit. . also to do with the U.S army taking a survey of it's pilots. majority said the preferred the right hand seat.
As for airline captains sitting on the left - found this.
During the end of the First World War, most powerful fighter aircraft were designed and fitted with rotary engines. It was found that when it came to steering these rotary-engine aircraft, turns to the left were easier because it follows the torque of the engine, whereas turns to the right were harder as it was against the torque forces. Hence it would require more rudder movement to compensate for the forces. Because of this, pilots chose to turn left as a more convenient maneuver and thus most traffic or circuit patterns around airfields, involved mainly left turns.