Don't pay for your 73/320 Rating

[Pole Smoker]

As a group of Professional Pilots, lets band together and send a strong message to Airlines saying we are not prepared to fork out cash to work for them (J*/VB/etc).

If they want to be considered respectable employers, then it is their obligation and responsibilty to provide required training. Bonding is fine, but not the individual fronting up with 30+ grand before signing the dotted line. Thats maddness!

Surely with oil prices plummiting over the past week, airlines likely receiving training credits from manufacturers and most about to announce increasing profits...training pilots in-house should be the norm.

Lets have some support!

:ok:

[Mr.Buzzy]

What a great idea!
Absolute genius...... Why don't you be the first to knock back a job with Jetstar or VB?
I'm sure you will happily live out your days in Ramanginning NT flying a 206 while the Jetstar and VB slots get filled with Kiwis!...........NOT

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzz

[tinpis]

Dont bee unkind buzzy the man is talking of a sorta group hug thing where all the pilots join in an stand firm and loyal and to the man sorta like in 198..:mad:

[Howard Hughes]

You know in theory I agree with you 100%, unfortunately like all good theories it doesn't seem to work in practice...:{

It is ironic that the only people who seem to complain about people bettering themselves, are often already futher up the 'ladder of success'! (pun intended):ugh:

I have recently been looking at ways of increasing my 'earning potential' including a masters at Uni and do you know what? I won't have any change left from $30,000 for that and earnings will not increase for 3-4 years! Guys who pay for endorsements/type ratings, increase their 'earning potential' almost immediately, and although it may not equate initially to many extra dollars, in the long run it does seem to pay off, especially if they then go overseas!:ok:

[Mr.Buzzy]

If they want to be considered respectable employers

Sorry but here is another huge hole. Most of the rogues running these outfits are lawyers and accountants and see nothing other than OTP and the bottom line. Peer perception is not in the formula!

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzz

[Baxter Dewall]

Hey! Hey! Mr buzzy, check your PM's

[Angle of Attack]

Howard Hughes

" Yeah and why has it become the stage that you need to fork out 30k for a degree? Howard Government thats why, 12 years ago i would have had around 7k debt from a degree not the current 33k it is now, but hey thats another story" suckers!

Pole Smoker "Yes your idea is good unfortunately there are lots of people around with that sort of money and they are not patient enough or good enough to wait for something to come their way. Personally it took me 5 years to get my CPL because basically I had no backing or access to money, I worked for every single minute of flying training. If an Airline offered me to work for them with a 35k endorsement cost, honestly I'd take it if I could but I couldnt have. I simply could not have afforded it. And yes I am up the ladder of success but you can still get ther eif you are patient. I am proud to say apart from my flying training I never forked out a cent for job advancement, in fact I turned down jobs if they asked me to pay for a check ride. Having said that it wasnt 35k just a hundred bucks or so^^! These days theres a lot of people who have help with finances and willing to pay and this has led to the fact that ailines do get away with it. I'm not here to say what to do but I guess summing it up if you are dedicated, hard working and a nice bloke/girl you will make it, without paying for a job. Its guaranteed, it just takes time

[relax737]

Pole smoker, as others have said, it's an admirable goal, but not realistic.
You pay for your degree these days as AoA has said, and there'll never be a shortage of takers because they think there is some prestige in being a pilot even though that's been long gone
The only thing you'll achieve by doing that is letting somebody else beat you to the jump.
Many years ago I decided I wouldn't bid for Christmas off and allow somebody with kids to get time off. All that achieved was to allow the next guy down the list, also without kids, to get Christmas off. Not everybody has the same admirable goals as you.

I don't share AoA's optimism that you will succeed if you don't pay for endorsements from now on. That may have been the way it was, but it's fast changing, and if it's in step with business, that's the way it will be.

[goddamit]

Unfortunately times have changed, this subject comes up every so often. As others have said admiral intentions but never going to work. I know a couple of people who have refused to purchase endorsements because of this attitude. Great guys, but....the only thing it accomplishes is a career stagnation. Money isn't everything but for those of us who have worked for years on fresh air & 20K salaries you cannot really afford to knock back good jobs because as others say, the next guy will take it(loyalty &morale of this type is rare these days). At the end of the day it accomplishes nothing. Most airlines of the future will recruit this way. That is (unfortunately) progress.

[Pole Smoker]

Looming Pilot shortage = won't need to pay for a job.

As for 20k US for an EMB Jungle Jet endorsement...that's nuts!

For all the newbees like myself... tell 'em to stick it!!!

DON'T BUY YOURSELF A JOB.

:ok:

[Chris Higgins]

We had contractual language put into our contract some time ago to eliminate PFT. The downside; that the contract itself wasn't that great. It took another five years to get it right.

By making statements like, "times have changed", or, "unrealistic", shows an apathy to the damage that these actions have caused the industry.

Believe me, you will be "paying" for your job in more ways than one for years to come with this attitude. Will it be simply be because, "times have changed", or will it just be apathy when you are paying for each new type, upgrade, recurrent and time spent in groundschool?

[rescue 1]

The answer is to find a middle position that fits both employee and employer.

We need to remember that Pilot wages equate to about 8% of total operating costs - not much, however that becomes expensive when people skip bonds and leave companies (for whatever reason), and the business cannot get a return on investment.

Maybe the answer is to put the money upfront as a bond, you get interest on the money, and once the company has its return on investment (say 3 years) the pilot gets the money back.

[bushy]

Unfortunately, some arrangement like this is necessary, because pilots and operators can no longer trust one another. This has been demonstrated many times. It is not just one group or the other.

[Xcel]

lol at windup... pprune forever moving forward.:}