european atpl and faa equivalent

[flight259]

I well know that an atpl allows you to fly commercially in europe while the many "full professional course" now being offered by american schools allow you to work in the u.s. provided you have the green card. I'm now wondering where stands the difference in terms of preparation. An atpl course lasts for about 13 months (at least), a full professional course (sometimes called ATP as well, just to understand what I'm talking about), lasts for just 6 months, and the training material (especially books) seems totally different. What do you learn in Europe which you don't in the U.S.A? I don't think that any american school can just cut the time with the same results. So? If anyone out there can enlighten me, I'd be really gratefull.:rolleyes: Thank you.

[Hufty]

I will offer a partially informed opinion (as always)! I think it is just that the groundschool that you do for the FAA course is considerably lighter than the JAA equivalent so I reckon most of the time saved is as a result of that. The JAA groundschool involves 14 massive binders full of stuff, while the FAA one is one book I think?! Which is better? Well, I know which one would have been easier!

The flying as far as I am aware should take about the same length of time.

Don't forget though that you don't get an ATPL (or ATP). You get a commercial licence and IR which you can convert into an ATPL (or ATP) when you have 1,500 hours and the additional requirements. You need to do a checkride for both upgrades and maybe do the FAA ATP written unless you can do it earlier - not sure.

FAR 61.153 and LASORS section G 1.2

Hufty.

[flight259]

Thank you Hufty, now I start understanding something more, even though I still don't have it all clear. For example, if I'm not wrong, you could even do a 737 type rating after your commercial license and instrument rating, so where is the advantage of attending the european jaa course when at last you get nothing more than the easier and faster faa one?

[dxbpilot]

It all depends on where you want to work in the world.

If you want to work in Europe you need the JAA.

If you want to work in the USA in a large airline , you usually need some sort of degree.(correct me if i'm wrong)

[flight259]

thank you too, dxbpilot, the necessity of a degree sounds new to me. :uhoh: What kind of degree would a pilot be requested in order to get a job in the U.S.? To be onest it scares me a bit, because it goes without saying that this would make everything even more expensive and long in terms of time.:ugh: I didn't know that american pilots working for major airlines have a degree. I'd be very grateful if you or anyone could describe the whole thing in depth. :confused:

[Hufty]

If you want to work in Europe flying aircraft registered in Europe (e.g Alitalia, BA, Lufthansa), you need a JAA licence. If you want to work in the US flying American registered aircraft (e.g. American, Delta, Continental ) (and you have the right to do so) you need an FAA licence. There are some exceptions but basically that it.

You are Italian according to your profile, so unless you have a green card, an American wife, an American passport, or sufficient funds to buy a business in the US you won't be able to seek employment in the US as a pilot. You don't need a degree to work as a pilot anywhere, but Mr dxbpilot is right that it does appear on some US airlines' recruitment pages as a "good to have" rather than something you must have. If you do an FAA CPL/IR and you don't have the right to work in the US than you have wasted quite a bit of time and money as you will need to convert it to fly aircraft registered in Europe. I don't know about type ratings though, but even though it is the same training, I think if you do it in the US under FAA rules, you still need to "convert" it to JAA.

It all depends which continent you want to work on. Once you have an FAA ATPL it is MUCH harder to convert it to a JAA one than the other way around!

[flight259]

I appreciate your answers, it's just that my problem with studying in Europe would be the money required and it seems that it's not so easy to find a job in Europe too. Now the only issue is: could I work in some other places with a faa license even not being citizen there? For example in Africa, South America, Asia ecc? And last but not least (I promise it's the last!): from what I see, I could consider to do a jaa ATPL license in some american schools which now offer it at a lower price than in Europe; now the question is: is this course identical to a Jaa atpl done in Europe (so also longer tha a faa one)? Won't I need any conversion to apply for a job in Europe? I am sorry for all my questions, but it's something I really need to know, so if you have just a little time to reply.....

[Hufty]

Yes, provided you have no citizenship issues, then you can work with an FAA licence anywhere in the world provided you are operating an N registered aircraft or going somehwere where they can just issue you a 'local' licence when you show them your FAA one. I don't know how many jobs that there are like that out there but it is possible. The job market in Europe at the moment is actually pretty good - better than in the US so I understand.

You're right that if you do your CPL and IR in the US, provided it is a JAA syllabus and the school is approved then you will get issued a JAA CPL/IR - no need to convert it. I think you still have to do your IR test in Europe, so you can't do the whole lot over there but you can save money by doing most of the training there. I did my CPL in the US. The JAA training you do in the US will be done to the same set of standards that it would be in Europe and you will be examined to the same standards.

Hope that all helps - it is a bit of a minefield but you just need to choose where you plan to live and see what licence you need to work there.

[flight259]

I cannot but say thank you and good luck to you too.

[dxbpilot]

A good idea may be to do the FAA CPL/IR and also do the JAA ATPL's.. This way you will have gotten the hard part of the FAA to JAA licence conversion out of the way early. Then after you have built some hours (maybe with that first job in africa!) you will be able to come back to the EU pass a couple of check flights do a MCC course and find some work with a airline in the EU !

Compared to the flying a ATPL course is cheap, and the most time consuming part of FAA to JAA licence conversion.

hope it helps good luck