Jetstar recruiting

[Shouldhe]

Hello all,
Please don't use this thread as a reason to bag-out or complain about LCC, as I am seeking FACTS about the recruitng process for Jetstar.
I appreciate the concerns some have with LCC's, but the fact of the matter is that some of us need to work for these carriers in order to do what we love - fly.
I have found some info about the wages (very roughly: FO 60-70K and CAPT 140-170K) and believe that pilots are working about 4 days a week. I understand with the rapid expansion, commands could be as soon as two years (any further info in these is appreciated).
I have done the Q testing and am on the so called 'hold file', however, it doesn't seem like anything will be happening there for a while, so I am applying to Jstar.
Does anyone have any detailed info they could share about the recruiting process - ie, tests, sim, interview style/questions etc?
Also, who does the conversion, and what is the current rate?
Thanking you in advance

[position & hold]

Shouldhe,
I'm also on the hold file after going through all of the Q testing last year, but also bit the bullet and applied to jetstar last month. :ugh:

During the first stage of testing, A few of us Q applicants did the aircraft attitudes and joystick tests, and were then joined by several Jetstar hopefuls for the psychometric and aptitude tests.

From what I have heard the second stage is also identical to Qantas, with 2-3 days to do the 767 sim ride (yes they use the 767 apparently), medical and interview.

Apparently if you have passed all stages with Q you still have to repeat them again for Jetstar, go figure...:confused:

Cheers and all the best,

P & H

(hoping VB hire soon!)

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Shouldhe,

Apparently if you have passed all stages with Q you still have to repeat them again for Jetstar, go figure...:confused:


Not true.
If you've done the psychometric testing for QF or Eastern or anyone else within the previous 2 years and passed, then you won't have to do it again - go directly to stage 2.

Stage 2 is an interview and planning exercise, and if you pass that, stage 3 is a sim ride in the 747 classic

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

Sue Ridgepipe,

Isn't there a stage 3? Will you pay for your A320 rating... yes/no?

Answer 'No' and the previous stages are proved meaningless.

Blue Foot

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Sue Ridgepipe,
Isn't there a stage 3? Will you pay for your A320 rating... yes/no?
Answer 'No' and the previous stages are proved meaningless.
Blue Foot

Well I would assume if the answer is "No" then you would not bother applying in the first place?:confused:

[UNOME]

Shouldhe

If you are part of the correct "BBQ set" you can set aside all requirements, including the cost of the endorsement/ revalidation.:hmm:

The former Chief Pilot of AN has recently joined without so much as completing an application. :suspect:

Other more current, qualified etc, etc have paid a couple of thousand $$ to complete the process, only to be given a big thumbs up by HR and then vetoed by a certain ex AN individual with his little hate list. :yuk:

How long will JQ survive with this style of management, especially after the new owners set it adrift? :confused:

[Crusty Demon]

The old two years to command has also been used a lot in the past couple of years since Jstar started. How long has the longest serving F/O's been in the company? I think the truth is a lot longer than 2 years. I know several who have been in there longer than that and still believe there is a long way to go. Some have reportedly been told at interview to expect 5 to 7 years. Some maybe going through in around 4 years at the moment I think.

Also, are Captains promoted outside of seniority depending on prior experience? Has this happened at all in the past? And what will prevent it from happening in the future?

[CamOnRed]

Shouldhe,
In the spirit of your post here is some info I received from Jetstar recruiting.
Dear CamOnRed
I am contacting you in relation to your application for our 2007 vacancies.
Currently we are recruiting for A320 First Officers and further to review of your application we would like to invite you into the first stage of the recruitment process.
Before I actually start discussing booking you in, I’d like to give you an overview of the recruitment process as a whole, what each stage entails and additionally outlining the costs implications to you at each stage.
There are 3 stages to the selection process and progression to the next stage will be dependent on your success at each stage that you reach.
At the first stage there will be a psychometric assessment which will cost a non-refundable fee of AUD$195. This assessment is designed to assess verbal, numerical, diagrammatical and spatial reasoning abilities as well as personal competencies. This assessment will be held in Sydney at the Qantas Centre.
The second stage of the process will consist of an Interview and a Planning Exercise. The interview will be a behavioural interview and will entail you to describe actions and decisions taken during specific events drawing from your own experience.
The planning exercise will take 75 minutes and is an exercise designed to assess your ability in planning, scheduling and prioritising.
The second stage of the recruitment process will be held in Melbourne on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
The third and final stage will be the Simulator Assessment. All simulator assessments are conducted on a Bowing 747 – classic simulator, and on the day you may elect to sit in either the left or the right hand seat of the simulator. A fee of AUD$150 will be charged per candidate by the simulator provider. The simulator assessment is held in Sydney at the Qantas Jet Base on Thursdays and Sundays of each week.
If you progress through all the above stages successfully we will conduct reference checks and assess your application before giving you a final decision. This part of the process can sometimes take some weeks and therefore we appreciate your patience at this time.
Should you be successful at the final decision then you will be required to complete the A320 endorsement at your own cost which is approximately AUD$35,000. If you already hold an A320 endorsement then obviously this will not be required.
I was on the Qantas hold file for a number of years before being cut off. Because my testing was greater than 2 years old I was going to have to pay for the testing again! For me this was the final indignity and I'm not going through with the application.
Hope this helps.
PS: Gota love the Boeing spelling - I guess that's why they are currently Airbus people!

[Shouldhe]

Thanks for the replies. I am going to stick an APP in (less than 2 years since Q stuff) and see how it goes...

If less than 2 years on the Q hold file - does that mean I would have to do the sim ride again?

I don't want to start on the way that you have to pay for everything to apply for a job - that has been covered before in other threads - lest I say it is a disgusting way to treat prospective employees. Not a good way to create a sense of belonging to a company that cares for you. Enough.

Any other gouge on work times etc? Does one apply for domestic or international?

Thanks

[Shouldhe]

Why am i applying?

Basically the aviation (airline industry) has us by the short and curly's. I want some location stability and I don't know anything other than flying - and I'm not gutsy enough to move down a different job path. That doesn't leave me with many options. If the captaincy time frame is about three years and the wage ends up about 150ish, then I will be 'happy'. I may not be a company man, but at the end of the day I have a family to feed to house so my options in the aviation game are limited. I understand that is exactly because of poeple like me the LCC get away with their crappy P&C, but I want to live in Melbourne and see my family. If I get offered a job, that doesn't automatically mean I'll accept, but it gives me options.

I hope that answers your question.

:)

[TineeTim]

One word of caution, I STRONGLY suspect that an application to Jet* is the end of your time on the QF holdfile. Even if you stay on the holdfile, I doubt you'd be offered a job w/ QF if they knew you were dealing with Jet*. That's not official but it does stand to reason- ask the Dash8 guys about QF recruiting from within the 'Group'. Goodluck.

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

'Dreams are free' I was once told.

If all Jet* pilot applicants withdrew their applications and this revolting company had no one to fly their planes (aside from the BBQ club :} )... no more paying for assessments, sim rides, ratings, in other words what we see happening in Europe.

Ryanair had quite a number of parked up new 737's in Prestwick Scotland and in the States, US$50 mil advertising billboards in effect. Out goes the £50 online application fee, the simm assessment fee, in comes bonded 737 ratings, basic salary from day 1, experienced pilots start showing some interest in them again.

Simple qe?
Blue Foot

[galdian]

shouldhe - a fair and balanced response, you can only apply to what is available at the time especially for those looking to move out of GA into the airlines.
20 years ago there was Qantas, Ansett, Australian and East West - none of whom charged for endorsements.
Today - Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin (and NatJet?) are the main options with 3 0f the 4 requiring endorsements (call me cynical but if sale goes through then quickly 4/4.)
Is it wrong on so many levels? - of course it is but it is also the real world at the moment.

Now if you want to talk about the Captains who have time and ratings to get far better paying positions O/S but choose to return to Oz on the "disgraceful" T&C on offer thereby (as pointed out by some) contributing to/continuing the downward spiral - there would be an interesting conversation of justification!
But why, in a free society, should any justification be required?

blue-footed boobie - I totally agree but it just wont happen in Oz.
Your story was about "experienced" ie jet experienced pilots overseas (RyanAir), I am assuming shouldhe is looking for that "big break" we all looked for in our careers and this is what's on offer in Oz today.
For anyone who wants to go O/S I think that's great however (once again in a free society) why should anyone be forced to leave their country of choice?

It is fair to rail at the architects of the current philosophies (Impulse/Virgin/Jetstar et al) but a bit unfair to have a go at those looking for that "big step" - they can only apply to what is available now which has changed somewhat in the last 5-10 years.

BTW: I find it interesting that another thread (about NatJet recruitment?) states interviews were held and (not surprisingly) new F/O's were indeed available and hired on "B" scales and/or endorsement costs one way or another. So the thread says.

Happy about it all - no! but this is all part of the brave new world controlled by the likes of Howard/Dixon/Branson/Joyce etc.
What I think doesn't mean s**t to these people.
Come the revolution...................................!!!:}

[haughtney1]

It is fair to rail at the architects of the current philosophies (Impulse/Virgin/Jetstar et al) but a bit unfair to have a go at those looking for that "big step" - they can only apply to what is available now which has changed somewhat in the last 5-10 years.
Galdian, sorry to disagree, what you are saying is just rubbish:=
It is PRECISELY because so many wannabe's (and a few experienced ones besides) have been foolish/gullible enough to believe that by undercutting the next guy, that the likes of Ryanair, and latterly Jetstar, VB, and Jetconnect have been able to institute these policies, not as you contend..the other way around. Far smarter people than you or I recognised this fact in the early 90's and have now made significant amounts of money because of it.
Regardless of what is available, any situation where you pay for a Type-rating..and then accept a low level of remuneration, must be viewed with contempt.
Blue-foot has it spot on....alas it will take a while I suspect for the "buy a job brigade" to run out of steam.
Far better to be bonded...which at least gives some financial recognition of the costs involved..which is repaid by your employer, than having to stump up the cash yourself:=

[galdian]

Firstly to clarify - I believe shouldhe is presently in GA looking at the next level, as such he does not have the "experience" of jet command time which would allow him a vastly different range of options.
Until you have some jet command time your options are limited - ever has been the case and that will never change.
Airlines may put 300 hour TT F/O's in the right hand seat but will never (at least in my remaining career) put them in the left hand seat.

The legacy carriers have all either bitten the dust or had to massively restructure their costs; the days of the career airline, with training above and beyond that required by the regulator(s) are either gone or in their last days or a very best reducing and anybody who believes Qantas's pilot training cost structure will not be altered somehow, one way or another, if sold - well we will have to agree to disagree.

I will admit clarification - it appears NatJet has a bonding/salary sacrifice system rather than an outright "pay your own endorsement" as per Jetstar, Virgin and (soon??:} ) QF. Some would suggest it's still really paying for it but certainly open to interpretation.

40 years ago pilots joined the domestics, for some their first twin and/or instrument rating was on the F27.
10-15 years later most had substantial piston and (for many) some turbine time.
I suspect today most will have a s**tload of twin time in both piston and turbine and IF, IF the experience levels of applicants starts to decline then the head honchos will simply lower the entry requirements to ensure a greater catch.
As long as you "tick the box" that's all that matters to todays "leaders."

Is it right - no! no! no! but it is what is prevalent today and that, sadly is the reality.

I standby a previous thought - if you want to question motives then the ones to ask are not the ones who are looking for the "next move up" but the ones who have command time and, therefore, far greater options.

Finally a question if I may: haughtney 1 identifies himself as in the UK, I suspect Blue-Footed may be also.
Are you ex Ozzies now working in the UK?? If so are you working as Captains and, if so from where did you gain the experience to obtain these positions??
If you are not from Oz then I can only suggest the Oz aviation scene works differently from other parts of the world - and it is unlikely there will EVER be a shortage of suitably qualified pilots looking for the "big step up" and who will have to deal with the forces at play in their generation, not anyone elses. If there was any shortage the bosses will simply dumb it down as far as they need to.
Of course any perceived skills shortage could be dealt with by simply opening up Australian skies to foreign pilots en masse - has happened before if memory serves me right!:ooh:

[haughtney1]

Im a Kiwi, who worked in NZ, Oz, and Africa, before going to the UK.

I know intimately how the GA scene in Oz works....The industry viewed in isolation can appear to be unique...and in some social aspects it is, but on the whole, it operates in a similar fashion to many many other places.
As for Oz not having a shortage of experienced drivers.....well again thats no different to anywhere else, the REAL difference between Oz and Europe is that there is now a shortage of the "buy a job brigade" which has forced many airlines (including the likes of BA) to start recruiting experienced GA and turbo-prop pilots, and they are bonding new entrants:ok:

This whole argument comes down to pure economics, as long as there are people with access to resources to cover the costs of buying a type-rating, then there will employers willing to make a profit from it:hmm:

N.B. have never paid for a rating

[galdian]

The Short responses'(s);
1. never paid for a rating: right place right time always or an old fart who went through the more golden time of aviation in the antipodes and has used that airline-funded broader training for your own benefit??
2. if the "real" difference is that there is now lack of experience in Europe and the airlines have had to soften then fair enough however that is not yet on the horizon in Oz
3. if you want to come back to Oz and lead the charge about which you are so passionate then I applaude, however if you stay in the UK and simply use the email to simplly bitch about it then.....???
4 sorry i missed what you said - are you a Captain or F/O and where and/ or how did you obtain your experience to get you to where you are today??

Please do not misunderstand - good debate is good fun!

Finally with a PS (rather than an NB which suggests urgency and/or importance) : I too have never paid for an endorsement in the "airlines", have done so in GA and thought it was fair and proper, I have been lucky to see, and benefit, from the golden age of Airline Aviation in Oz, that's the real bottom line, it's now a new game open to those who want to live and fly in Oz in an "airline!" by the rules set by the airlines.

Once again is it right - NO, but that's the reality of today.
Cheers
Galdian

[haughtney1]

Please do not misunderstand - good debate is good fun!

Exactly:ok:
1. No I'm not an old fart..(well 33 isnt THAT old I hope:sad: ) Currently a jet F/O....and I've had to work very very hard to get to where I am:)

2. Agreed, but it is economics, not experience that is the issue.

3. I'd be back to NZ or Oz in a flash if it meant I could be employed on a similar package to what I recieve now, but why should I? there are hundreds of wannabes who are prepared to cut their own earning potential just to get a "valued" jet job...and then who bleat because the pay and conditions are crap, which in their scramble to trample over other applicants have contributed to the lower remuneration.
In point of fact both VB and Jetconnect have offered interviews...both of which I turned down when I discovered that I would be expected to fund a 737 Type-rating.

4.F/O, flew piston and turbines in NZ, OZ, Africa, and UK, before being offered a bonded Jet F/O position in the UK.

I'm no crusader, but if you do a quick search on here you will find that I have had a pretty consistent approach to this since I've been a member here on PPrune. I took a personal stand a few years back to never pay to get a job, and todate, it hasn't hampered my career.

[Bula]

go find a different thread you lot.

I think we have all heard enough about LCC and people being so brave and bold not to pay for their endorsements etc...........

[haughtney1]

Bula....Perhaps you need a remedial reading class...

Hello all,
Please don't use this thread as a reason to bag-out or complain about LCC, as I am seeking FACTS about the recruiting process for Jetstar.

In case you haven't noticed, WE ARE discussing the facts.....paying for a type-rating is an intergral part of the Jet* process, opinions and comments relating to that are relevant.

[Bula]

Thats really sounds convincing because we have really continued with the original intent of this thread..... :hmm: .

"Hello all,
Please don't use this thread as a reason to bag-out or complain about LCC, as I am seeking FACTS about the recruiting process for Jetstar."

I see little retort in your argument.

[haughtney1]

I see little retort in your argument

Well, are you disputing the facts now?

[VeeoneCUT]

Has anyone who has been through the mill with the jetstar interview got any useful info about the planning exercise and sim flight profile?