ONUR AIR AGAIN and AGAIN

[swing over]

Hey everybody,happy new year!!:ok:
The turkey based charter company Onur Air took off this morning from Istanbul airport with an open cargo door.Some bags falled down from the ac during the take off roll.Some bags falled into the sea right after take of.Aircraft was an MD 88 with approximate pax nr of 130.The flight was sheduled from istanbul to Izmir.The said sight of this incident is that the pilots didn`t noticed this serious problem until an aircraft which was on the short final reported this incredibal incident to the tower.THE BRAVE WELL TRAINED CREW OF ONUR AIR RETURNED BACK TO THE FIELD AND LANDED AGAIN.
http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=11469
:D
GOOD LUCK FLYING ONUR AIR.:=

YES , ONUR AIR AGAIN AND AGAIN:D :ok: :D
by the way the tickets are very cheap.:ugh:

[OXOGEKAS340]

What you pay, is what you get!:}

[jovica]

The incident was reported slightly different:

04 JAN 2007 Onur Air MD-88 suffers in-flight opening of cargo door
On January 1 the cargo door of an MD-88 operated by Onur Air opened during takeoff. The aircraft lost pressure while climbing through an altitude of 6000 feet. The crew decided to return to Istanbul. Upon touchdown the cargo door sprang open, causing luggage to fall onto the runway. (Flight International)

http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1748

[swing over]

The link you gave us JOVICA is the version of the Onur Air management,who tries to manipulate the case.
Fact is the Cargo door became open.How? If under pressure or without pressurization, a cargo door which is securely lockked will not open.Or?Normaly the bagages in the cargo compartment must be secured with nets or safty belts.So, how did they falled down.And please tell us how much pressure should an airplane produce passing only 6000 ft altitude.I think not so much that it will open a properly closed cargo door.Another question how about door sensors,are they not installed on a MD aircraft?
So please lets stay here with the facts.

[swing over]

http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=11583

Ad this link, you can see that Onur Air paid 4500 YTL remuneration to the lost bags.:D

[swing over]

http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=11582

today at 14:44 local time an Onur Air flight did skid of the runway after landing in Erzurum.

As I siad Onur Air again and again:ok:

[181.filo]

Dear Swing over,
I am really wondering what did onur air do to you so you are so full of anger and revenge against this company? I dont see anyone else writing here other than you on this matters. Ohh, I almost forgot to ask you about your dear friend "Captain flown all types in all continents". Hope he got a good job in Berlin airport with taxi cab company after jumping off the Onur A320 with full of pax on the taxiway at 40 deg C.:D

[swing over]

Dear super fighter pilot filo 181.:ok: .Don`t put the facts under a different light.It is Onur Air who is in the news with incidents.You guys may control the turkish media and turkish-CAA with spending money,but this forum you cannot manipulate.This is the wrong platform for it.:ugh:
meanwhile about 4000 people visited this page.

[His dudeness]

quote:
The said sight of this incident is that the pilots didn`t noticed this serious problem until an aircraft which was on the short final reported this incredibal incident to the tower.THE BRAVE WELL TRAINED CREW OF ONUR AIR RETURNED BACK TO THE FIELD AND LANDED AGAIN.

well, not being familiar with the MD88 I suppose there is a micro switch connected to a caution light...or does the 88 have a "bags are falling out of the belly" Master Warning light?

I find nothing wrong with continuing at least to evaluate the problem and probably burn fuel to max landing... IF someone would tell me: your baggage door just opened I´d land ASAP.

So what exactly did the crew wrong in your opinion? What is your source of information regarding the fact that the crew didn´t notice a problem?

[saman]

Help me here. The MD80 series has inward opening cargo doors. So 'pressure' closes them. So, once closed how do they open and how do bags fall out. This is a simple 'mechanics' question seeking a technical answer.

[swing over]

The most favour aviation news web-page in Turkey is reporting these incidents and not me.So what is wrong if other avaiation people around the world gets some news whats going on here.

use the link
http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=11583

[jovica]

swing over,
The point is not in "what's going on" but in "why's going on". Also, by simply putting the blame on the manegement or the "company" (whatever that stands for) won't prevent such a incident from happening again. Finally, being extatic for somebody else's mistake, man, you have to start working on yourself ASAP.

[181.filo]

dear mr swing over,
Why are you so up to turksih media reports translations from such a newspapers has no reputable ground other than gossip columns for cabin crews!!!. Did anybody assign you to do so? you got nothing else to do.??You got no paper planes to fly...If you are so eagerly to translate such flight safety reports from gossip papers why dont you do some from indonesia, china, spain, brazil, etc.so you can keep the whole aviation world in order!!:rolleyes:

[Diabolo]

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=573658 :ok:

Indeed lucky that no luggage were sucked by the engine :}

Please, before accusing and blaming anybody wait for the official report.

Happy Trails

[Medion]

( Why are you so up to turksih media reports translations from such a newspapers has no reputable ground other than gossip columns for cabin crews!!!. )

Do we have here someone who discriminates cabin crew members in a way?Do you think you are someone better?Hey Mr 181.filo I think you have an attitute problem.

thanks for the picture diablo!
everything is more clear now.

[Nardi Riviera]

“04 JAN 2007 Onur Air MD-88 suffers in-flight opening of cargo door
On January 1 the cargo door of an MD-88 operated by Onur Air opened during takeoff. The aircraft lost pressure while climbing through an altitude of 6000 feet. The crew decided to return to Istanbul. Upon touchdown the cargo door sprang open, causing luggage to fall onto the runway. (Flight International)”

Noticing the absence of MD-80 pilots know-how here… A bit wary about sticking my neck out, but decided to join the lowtimer-groupies (just too curious about the following):

Hard to believe that a PROPERLY LATCHED cargo door will open during takeoff.

IF UNLATCHED, there obviously should have been a WARNING LIGHT in the flightdeck, at latest detected when pilots performed the startup checklist.

Why would mentioned door open inwards upon decompression at low-level? Dunno if they’re spring-loaded, but reckon it takes the muscle of a baggage-handler to push them up to locked position… Airflow along fuselage will suck an outward opening door a few inches out, but to my knowledge (stand corrected) it will not push an inward opening door in – but rather hold it in place.

Picture linked by Diabolo shows the (alleged?) a/c in landing configuration (flaps 25’ish and low angle of attack). Door is apparently open, but I cannot detect to what extent.

The above summary by reliable Flight International, states that the cargo door sprang open upon touchdown and bags fell onto RWY. That I can believe, if the landing was hard enough. – So, what was that big emergency again???

“swing over” claims that FI editors are manipulated by airline managements. That is a fairly tall order, and I’d prefer more hard evidence to buy his point of view.

“Diabolo”, worrying that bags could’ve got into the engines, reveals that he is not a pilot… The door is below the engines, and gravity works even at 140 kts IAS!

This thread is cluttered by too many opinions and not enough facts. Sigh.

[peterperfect]

The linked photo.....HHMMM
I sniff the same rat as Nardi Riviera

The sun is somewhere astern the aircraft, look at the shadows from engine nacelles (falling over the 'open' bay) and also on the side strake above the nosewheel. Why are there almost completely black shadows on the underwing surfaces and in the engine intakes, yet the enclosed cargo bay is bathed in more light than those areas, that are patently "out in the open" so to speak ? Logic path, if the natural ambient light was bright enough to illuminate inside the bay, why did it not light the underside of the flaps or intake ?

All the other photos of TC-ONP (airliner.net etc) has it's pet name ESRA below the cockpit, even as recently as Aug and Oct 06. When did they paint it out ?

Who votes for a PhotoShop effort ?

I've wasted enough drinking time, answers on a postcard to your MEP or retired PhotInt operative.

Yours, Sceptically, (but mature enough to be proved wrong)
PP

[FCS Explorer]

cargo doors that open inwards can be blocked be luggage that has moved during the flight. thats why there usually is netting to keep the movement area of the door free. so even if you take off with an open door, u shouldn't loose the load...

[Diabolo]

“Diabolo”, worrying that bags could’ve got into the engines, reveals that he is not a pilot… The door is below the engines, and gravity works even at 140 kts IAS!

Dear Nardi Riviera or shall I call Mr. Isaac Newton ;) ??

As you are probably a Profesional Pilot let me please ask you those questions,
Could you please clearly explain to use ?
Was the Engine not running ?? at that stage what was the power setting and N1 or EPR value of that ENG do you know ? You are stating an indicated speed of 140Kts, so what is the relation ? Does the engines can not such FOD at that speed ? Do you know what is the exact distance between that door and that ENG air intake lips and nacelle ?

Guessing what other might do is realy not your favorite and best skills.
So please in your future post just restrict your self of such comments.:=

Take care and Fly Safe

Bye.

[Nardi Riviera]

Final approach speed for this type of a/c is about 130-140 kts. Just before touchdown the power input is normally relatively low. A bag INSIDE the hold would not be sucked into the engine. At full blast a jet engine will suck in anything close (tables available, re distances etc). Bags fell onto the runway upon landing, which is quite likely considering how the DC-9/MD-80 touches down.

Relax. And give my regards to mr. Newton when you get through to him.

Nobody here will apparently answer my questions… Still curious.

[Medion]

This incident is reported in newspapers,too.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/5742057.asp?m=1&gid=112&srid=3428&oid=2

good luck!

[MaxBlow]

Now we all see, read and hear the stories about Onur. They make it on page one quite frequently. So far nothing catastrophic happend and I really hope it stays like this.
What really concerns me is that we only hear about more serious things and not about the countless incidents they have.
They have been banned for a reason in 2005 but still seem to continue to work according their very own way of doing things.
And yes - I could tell you some scarry stories 'cause I've been there too and I'm glad I left after a fairly short time.
Just have a look at their number of 'misshaps' in the past 5 years. :rolleyes:
Tailstrikes, overruns, an almost landing with the gear up etc. - this is scarry!

I blame the senior management for putting imense pressure (commercial nature) on their mechanics (to sign off airplanes) and to their crews (to accept and fly airplanes that should not be in the sky).
Lack of training in all departments is another factor contributing to their situation.

Their safety manager must be a fairly busy person to read, file and act on all these ASR's.

The CAA was under pressure as well after the 2005 ban and closed that other fishy outfit Flyair :D and I bet they're watching Onur very closely.

Onur is still the largest (as if size matters) private carrier in Turkey but they have to get their priorities in the correct order.
Would I fly with them ? :=

[The Bartender]

First of all, i am not a MD-88 pilot, but as someone seems to miss the obvious, this humble rampie/de-icing coordinator is no longer able to keep his mouth shut... :ouch:

IF the MD-88 has the same door/net-configuration as the other MD-80's, then the door must have been locked open since loading.

On every other MD-80 i've seen, you first operate the handle, push the door open, and put the handle back to lock the door in open position. Then you detach the soft sidewalls of the inner door(!) from the fuselage side, and lift the inner door so that it covers the outer door, were it locks into place with latches.
The function of the inner door is to prevent shifting cargo from jamming the operation of the outer door, like a net.

IF this aircraft is configured like every other MD-80 i've seen, then i don't see how it is possible that the door opened in flight, as from the picture, both outer and inner door seem to be secured in the open and locked position, as they would be during a turnaround...

There, i said it.. I'm now ready to be taken to the middle of the woods for a quick lead-poisioning...:oh:

[agusaleale]

Take a look at this couple of pictures.
http://www.swisswings.ch/onur.htm

You can also read this notice:
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1405742006

[Medion]

This is the same aircraft TC-ONP !
http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=11660


And this is the official report issued by Dutch Safety Board:
http://www.safetyboard.nl/publications/dsb/report_runway_overrun_after_rejected_take-off.pdf

[Green Guard]

All correct Bartender !
And not only MD 80 to 88 family but also all DC9 rear cargo compartment doors were designed exactly the same.
If Jovica is old enough he should remember that IAA... DC9 dropped pax bags on Take Off from one of his own airport some 30 years ago.
Bags can fall out any time depending on pitch, but were never sucked by engine...s,
unless some devil or Diabolo loads Aft Cargo with only some toy baloons and small umbrellas.
Cargo Doors may remain locked open for 3 reasons,
but all 3 started by Ground Support forgetting to close them.
1. Pilots ignore the "Aft Cargo Door Open" light in front of their heads.
(Very unlikely, even for OnurAir)
2. Bulbs to power that warning burned out.
3. The transmitter of that signal on the door inoperative.
About decompression on 6000',...
.It was a typical media answer even if it were Flight International.
The truth can only be that pilots NOTICED by their EARS and /or by cabin pressure control panel that cabin altitude is climbing same as the aircraft altitude, and declared "Loss of Cabin Pressure" to ATC.
Good on you OnurAir!
I am scared to mention or to compare what happened
to one B737 few years ago above Aegean Sea, as we were told for the loss of cabin pressure.
:mad:

[Earl]

Lets not forget that this is the same airline that landed gear up in Medina and also taxied into a light pole on the Saudia contract.
I think I recall that the Captain that did this was named chief pilot with some other airline in turkey, screw up and move up as the saying goes,same everywhere.
They also had an EU ban on them that was lifted last year.
2 sides to every story, then we have the truth.
Was it Onur air or Turkish airlines that crashed in Turkey a couple of years ago with zero visability and no ILS ?
Either way they have a troubled past and bad reputation.
Just check the past history on them.
Hope they one day get it together.

[Charlie Hotel Xray]

Onur is on my IWNFWT * list!

What a terrible record they have.:yuk:

* I Will Never Fly With Them:}

[John_Brown]

Incredible the nonsense you hear about aviation incidents/accidents.

First off, the Douglas DC-8 and 9 have plug type passenger
and cargo doors. The only exceptions will be the Main topside
(very large cargo door) and the"Jet escape" on the stretch models.

They are plug type that pressurisation make physically impossible to open.

So, for baggage to fall off, and pressurisation not to work,
they HAD to be wide open just before
those pictures where taken, before they must have crept in
semi-closed position.

They slide up INSIDE against the wall for the belly doors just as
the passenger doors have to do a complicated monkey motion
to finally plug tight against the airframe.

http://members.tripod.com/~Motomom/201AirframeSyst (http://members.tripod.com/%7EMotomom/201AirframeSyst)

So, ALL the reports, allegations and comments here by the press
or the company agents are by simple logic, all big fat lies...