EK - Why bother?!

[Bigyin]

I have been following all the discussions re EK on pprune over the last 3-4 months and I am starting to form a picture of an airline that is completely and utterly terrible to work for.

I have an interview with EK next month but the more I read the posts here the more I am starting to doubt my desire to even attend the interview.
I am therefore asking very politelely if there are any EK flight crew here that could tell me in an objective way why I should or shouldn't go ahead with my interview.

I am looking for some sensible answers. Not interested in comparisons with other airlines. Please include what you think is good or bad, i.e pros v cons. I will consider your replies when I make my future career choice.

Thank you.

[ruserious]

As much as I hate how the airline has gone down the pan during the last 4 years, I still think you should come for your interview.

Its all about perspective, we all have our reasons for applying, coming, staying or leaving. If you have a good job on nice equipment, with a fairly decent future, stay where you are. If you don't, then you have nothing to loose really.

Just remember, they will be trying to sell you the nice shiny pretty, well funded company. You will only really be able to assess just how much they manipulated the truth, after you have been here about 2 years.

Good luck!

[acy RJ driver]

Hey Bigyin:

I dont work for EK and it doesnt matter to me either way should you choose to attend your interview or not; however as you should already be aware, you will find naysayers and trashtalkers where ever you go.
If soo many people there are soo unhappy then why havent they left yet? I am certain that Ek has its flaws and that some of the griping is waranted but I take with a grain ao salt much of the crap that people talk only beacuse I know that we as pilots can be difficult to please. At the end of the day the decision should be yours!

Good luck :rolleyes:

[watertheflowers]

Hey Bigyin:....
.......If soo many people there are soo unhappy then why havent they left yet.

In January alone three senior Captains have decided that Easyjet (UK) are offering a better future than Emirates, and a further five Captains are also voting with their feet in the same month and are on their way to alternative undisclosed employers.

What did you say again?

wtf

[Sonny Hammond]

Watery,

maybe they've done thier time and are ready to go home. Is that ok with you?

[Check 'Six']

how about 135+ pilots in 18 months?? You were saying what?

Take the time and do a search. The list is long and distinguished!

Check 'Six'

[ShockWave]

Actually, the fact that pilots are leaving emirates does not make it a bad place to be. As stated above, it indicates that it is a job with a finite time span at the moment. Most people will eventually get tired of the crap, and many long days,weeks,months and years. Most junior pilots will benifit every time a more senior pilot leaves.

There is a stage in your career when doing maximum hours on a great big shiny aircraft meens more to you than all the little things that constitute crap. Come to the gulf, enjoy it while you can, but be prepared to accept the fact that you will not enjoy everything or be here for ever.:ok:

[uplock]

Hey acy RJ driver an Sonny Hammond and all the other Lurkers... you will all ways get moaners an groaners where ever you go.

HOWEVER the company has never in its history lost so many pilots as in the last 18 months.

What I find disturbing is the smoke and mirrors that goes on here with the impression that communication is a two way street when the reality is very different.

Lifestyle change (downwards) and working to the maximum legal hours possible with a huge decrease in the real world pay (what my salary here would purchase in my home country). Living expenses not being compensated for with Inflation in double figures yet annual salary increase in single figures and each year EK announce record profits...each year...Now the company have announced in the December News Letter they are in the process of applying to fly world and ground breaking ultra long haul flights in excess of the present limitation of 16 hrs...

Let me spell it out then the good times here in EK ended long time ago, think in today’s aviation world business plans change on a daily basis however what does not sit well with many guys is the way the company will twist the truth.

The biggie here and this is our Senior Manager Flt Ops A.S. going into print some years ago when there was some discontent bubbling in the ranks in a company letter explaining why it was so good to work for EK...His exact words were.." A snappy 3 years to command" This has cheesed off many F.O.s

Hey even 12 months ago we had a speech from A.S. explaining why we were working so hard apologizing all though it sounded like blaming his predecessor for the problems and promising we would not be working so hard by the end of the year because lots more pilots were being recruited....


More smoke and mirrors as in the December Company News Letter you can read that as the A380 is delayed they are slowing down on recruitment...what the F....?? So that’s another heads up that you will work your butt off here and hey I don’t mind going to work but when you have no choice but to do overtime each month it isn’t cricket any more sport....

You all so read where the company are saying with Fatigue it comes down to your fault where Rostering is the Root Problem mixing and mashing Ultra Long Haul Flights with Short Haul late night East West North South and conveniently shifting the blame on to us guys…you name it its done here with FTL’s

Lots more examples. Ask around. Still a good gig how ever not a shade on what it was to work here 5 or 6 years ago and I only see terms and conditions getting worse before they get better.

Come along to the interview just ask some relevent questions after all is said and done your just going to be flying a another plane and only you can make the decision if its the correct gig or not.

[chinawladi]

From the inside this place has gone from good to mediocre, not only EK to blame but the city has it's part in it. Now if from the outside the mediocre still looks good enough, don't hesitate to apply. It still doesn't look mediocre enough to many of us, so we're staying. For how long? They are finding out right now. Just scratch the surface to have a deeper look when you're here for the interview.
My main problem is that with some experience from other parts of the world I see how easy it would be to keep this place attractive. We've all been in the industry long enough to know that keeping a place attractive, to treat employees with respect and not constantly lying to them is cheaper in the middle and long run. We also know that they know and by ignoring this proven principle they insult us. We know it's deliberate and that makes it easy to despise them in turn, the main reason for discontent and disrespect around here.
In the end it's their choice to deal that way. If they think that a increasing number of resignations and a decreasing number of adequate applications is good corporate governance then so be it.
By turning up the heat the ice is only getting thinner.

[watertheflowers]

Watery,
maybe they've done thier time and are ready to go home. Is that ok with you?

You make it sound like a prison sentence, and for some it feels like that.

The departees for January include one Direct Entry Captain, he's been at EK for no more than a few months, also included is a Captain upgraded in the last six months, he's been in the company around four years.

Guess they've just done their time.

In simple terms the good points about Emirates that include modern equipment, a diverse network and possible early command no longer compensate for living in a rat trap, a management team that continue to attempt and to succeed in extracting more from the crews in return for less compensation bringing me onto the salary package that diminishes in buying power by around 10% per annum due to inflation and exchange rates and revisions in the way the crews are paid.

Forgot to mention that each month the resignation list also includes one or two recently joined F/Os. Just one for January. Guess he did his time.

[GoreTex]

my friend called his former chief pilot and asked for his job back after 3 days in EK, guess he did his time

[TangoUniform]

Perhaps another point of view. I find the company no different than another major, large airline. I don't know what airlines all the other posters are comparing EK to, but in my experience as an airline, EK is way above average operationally. I do believe the pay is very mediocre for what we do, but that may increase to more of industry average at some point. Certainly a lot of rumors to that.

Fatigue? What a joke. Again, I don't know what everyone is complaining about. 900 hours a year, that averages 75 hours a month. I have never felt so rested flying for an airline. Leave-42 days a year. Whether you get all 42 days is another question. Several times a year you get to be in the top two bid groups. Find that somewhere else. Company provided accomodations, no worries about utilities, no worries about house bills.....

Dubai? It's not your home country probably, so take that as it is. Are there problems and frustrations-you bet. Can they be overcome-of course, again depending on your point of view. Is traffic horrible-yes.

Again, from my point of view, which is somewhat different than what you read here is that it's a big airline with incredible growing pains. Are you looking for job security, then this may be the place for you. I guess many pilots here are getting a bit homesick, and thus issues that would be put up with at their home country's airline stand out greater here.

I sure I will be vilified for saying something positive about EK, and perhaps after a few more years, I too will be fed up with some things here. But now, it is job security for a pilot, an airline that continues to expand and get new equipement, an airline that is making a profit and a chance to be a Boeing or Airbus widebody captain in 3 or 4 years.

Remember, those that are happy here will not post much here. Those that are unhappy will. It's just like the news, good things aren't reported, just the bad.
TU

[watertheflowers]

Used to be very happy at Emirates, now the best I can say is that I am not unhappy. If this is extrapolated over the next few years it's reasonable to project that I will become unhappy and later on very unhappy.

As such I am now planning for a future that does not include Dubai and/or Emirates Airlines.

Nothing to do with 'doing my time'. We work in an industry were financially and professionally it is (was) preferable to stay in one place. I only wish I could do that.

[square leg]

1 year = 365 days

42 days = 1.4 months holidays

12 - 1.4 = 10.6 months of work


900/10.6 = 85 hrs/month:8 So when you work you would potentially "feel" 85 hours if you work 900 hrs year.

But yes, 900 over the WHOLE year is 75. Just giving you a different angle.

[jethrotull]

I am an ex-EK employee, not a pilot, presently pursuing a Masters in AirTransport Management. I find this thread interesting as it deals mainly with EK. As a ex-employee, i believed EK was a nice co to work for then whole of 90s, i left EK because i suspected its potential to grow, i have been fascinated by EK's growth since leaving. In college i've had discussions with Marketing managers from Airbus who claimed EK would be the premier airline of the world and how the world would travel via DXB. I strongly believe that EK has been successfull till date wholly and solely because of the Indian sub-continent. Maurice Flanagan had identified the unfullfiled demand for a good service airline connecting the large migrant population from the ISC to mainly the west. EK has successfully filled this demand, in the abscence of viable airline from any of the 4 countries, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Srilanka. In the case of SL they have also acquired the management of the national carrier, PIA and BIMAN are now up for grabs.
However to spoil EK's party, EY and QR have the same ambition and India its cream market, now has a robust aviation industry awaiting the clearance to fly international early this year. The following report by IATA and many such avail freely, leads one to believe humbly that i was correct in my decision to leave EK. DXB has created a leasing co, the shiny jets can always be sold to the leasing co to recover the costs, however a lot of folks will be made redundant before that.
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/12/30/10093144.html

Airport capacity warning

[dicksynormous]

EKLAWYER,
The arrogance of your first paragraph just about sums up some of the bitter people on the right seat at ek.

You assume that a chap from "coconut aiways" suddenly becomes more qualified that a chap with thousands of hours say around the greek islands, just becuase hes been playing monkey see monkey do on a push button jet for three years! Those decent pilots deserving the left seat at ek and being shafted are being done a disservice by your generalisation and arrogance as it engenders a defensive response and mutual disrespect as demonstrated in my reply.

Stop bitching, Your choices your decisions.

[gj18457]

Perhaps TU you could enlighten us all as to what type of flying you are doing in these 75 hrs a month.Are you a family man or single? Are you a Capt or a F.O? Maybe you are so rested as you dont live in a construction area.Which type of airlines are you comparing EK to.Once you clarify that and probably that you have been in DXB for less than 18 mths we might listen to what you have to say.
Dick could you please re-write your last post so that it makes some sense.

[TangoUniform]

Perhaps TU you could enlighten us all as to what type of flying you are doing in these 75 hrs a month.Are you a family man or single? Are you a Capt or a F.O? Maybe you are so rested as you dont live in a construction area.Which type of airlines are you comparing EK to.Once you clarify that and probably that you have been in DXB for less than 18 mths we might listen to what you have to say.
Dick could you please re-write your last post so that it makes some sense.

What other type of flying is at EK? Mostly long haul, some daily turns. Some Europe, some Middle East, some night Indias. What difference does my opinion of the company whether I am single or married? What difference does it make (other than money) if I am flying left or right seat?

I will tell you what kind of airlines I am comparing EK to. The kind where you fly six sectors a day in and out of a major hub airport and change aircraft everytime passing through the hub, where in the winter you are deicing several times a day and in the summer you are dodging TRWs all day long. I am comparing EK to airlines where you fly a four day trip, fly anywhere from 4-15 sectors, depending on the type of aircraft, getting to cheap hotels and getting a whole 8-10 hours rest all for 20 hours of flight time. And this includes duty rigs of 1:3.5 or 1:4.

No, I haven't been here quite 18 months, and perhaps my opinion will change, but right now-I haven't been on a layover for less than 24 hours, okay, maybe 22, I haven't had any major maintenance delays over one hour and have never had more than two ADDs. Compare that with airlines in the U.S., airlines in Latin and South America, and some of the European LCCs.

Is EK a dream job? Hell no, but it is a lot better than many and job security goes a long way. Staff travel could be a lot better, (unlimited free perhaps), jump seat availability, and of course better pay. But doesn't that hold true for just about every airline? But this isn't the sh*t job everyone here seems to say it is. Could there be improvements? Of course, especially in the training "arena". And I call it the arena since it seems to be adverserial. But fatigue? Please..........Maybe back off a couple of pints on layovers.

So please tell the ignorant (me) the airlines that offer an upgrade in 3-4 years to a 777, and offer better pay, and provide full housing (not an allowance) provide more than adequate health care and one doesn't have to live in a smog infested, middle of the jungle hootch. 'Cause I will be happy to find a better paying job with the job security that EK offers. I really don't want to live in Mumbai, Seoul, Hanoi, Almaty, or go through six months of ground school on an aircraft I am qualified on (ANA).

TU

[uplock]

Hey Tango Uniform hate to let the truth get in the way of a good story ...

Your spreading some Porky Pies with this little quote....
Fatigue? What a joke. Again, I don't know what everyone is complaining about. 900 hours a year, that averages 75 hours a month. I have never felt so rested flying for an airline. Leave-42 days a year. Whether you get all 42 days is another question.

Fatigue on the Airbus fleet is a FACT

Pilots having Days and weeks off sactioned by the EK clinic FACT Why dont you Operate the sector DXB-SYD-CHC-SYD-DXB or DXB-MEL-AKL -MEL-DXB as Crew B and you will be extremely tired when you get back to Dubai FACT Then chuck in some short haul night flights the best one is the 4 sector DXB-Doha-DXB-Doha-DXB ( and yes we do manage to change aircraft as well...)

To make a statement as broad as Fatigue? What a joke may apply to your roster however the FACTS are that EK does have Rostering Issues which have resulted for the first time here in EK guys being given a couple of weeks off by the Medical Drs FACT

You sure you are not Brians Twin Brother by any chance...

[ruserious]

But fatigue? Please..........Maybe back off a couple of pints on layovers.
Maybe not for you, but I just have completed 113 of COMPULSORY hours in December, I had no choice in the matter (some standby), as the only way you can adjust your roster is to go sick.

Maybe back off a couple of pints , I doubt I had more than 6 beers in the whole month so why don't you fark off you arrogant management lackey, what did you pull that great quote directly from from Mr Ed's newsletter, or did you type it for him in the first place. :yuk: :yuk:

[TangoUniform]

Sorry, haven't even met Capt. America or wouldn't know him if I tripped over him. But I guess I should have read the forum rules first and realize there is no positive posting allowed.

I guess fatigue can be a personal issue. If you're tired-you're tired. Simple as that. And good for the guys that took the time off. What I am comparing EK in the fatigue factor is what I have been doing for the past 10 years-and this type of flying is much easier and less fatiguing-for me. Twenty four hour layovers-nice. And how nice that there is a medical department that backs the pilot in the fatigue area. A medical department that is more than window dressing. A medical department? What's that? So thank you for making my point, that EK does have some very positive aspects and it isn't all negative. Isn't that what this thread was about in the first place?

I am not arguing that there are not fatigue issues at EK, but to take at face value what is being touted here as the gospel that everyone is dragging ass around the CBC is not the whole story. So I guess I better get some rest or you will see me at the clinic.

TU

[Vorsicht]

You are full of ****e.

It is common knowledge that 24hr layovers are unmanageable for proper rest, that is why the FTDL is less when you have had between 18 and 30 hrs rest. That is also why EK crews suffer chronic fatigue. Because they fly short, medium, long and ultra long haul in the same month, often with 24 hr rests between duties.

When you get some time up, come back and argue your point properly.

V

[ironbutt57]

TangoUniform do not confuse being tired or sleepy at the end of a block or in your room downroute with chronic fatigue...two very different animals....

[Ahad Adump]

Boooooyyyyyysss

Toddler Undertraining has done less than 18 mnths.
We were there once too, remember?
Give him time.......we'll see him at the KAL interview soon.

[ruserious]

there is no positive posting allowed Is that a dummy I see tumbling through the air after being freshly spat-out :O
I get a bit sick of the old argument that its only people who feel negative about the company that post here, inferring that all the people who feel good don't post. You can post good, bad or indifferent comments here, but if you say something that people don't agree with, or in your case TU, a load of bollox, then you will have it commented on.
My experience is that every day I go to work, I get to fly with other pilots who are knackered and very unhappy with the company's dishonest and irresponsible behaviour. Yes there are a minority that are still happy here, but then they tend to be new hire F/O's who have come from somewhere worse. 3 year F/O's in my experience, tend to be the most pissed off.

[twieke]

Try 3 years and 8 months FO's

[uplock]

Brian became a Legend in his own Mind and an instant Celebrity when he was outed by the Moderator on this board who highlighted a split personality. One of the more entertaining posts here...but just so you do not trip over in the CBC next time Tango Uniform

http://web.syr.edu/~jocarey/Destination/images/Captain%20America.jpg

[ruserious]

Try 3 years and 8 months FO's I wish I could offer you more than sympathy.
However it does effect everyone, the more crap like the upgrade time debacle, that they think they can get away with, the more they are encouraged to try other genius HR cunning stunts on the rest of us.

[Bigyin]

Thank you all so much for the lively debate that ensued my initial request for some sensible info.
After all that I am now none the wiser.
What I have deducted from all your posts are mainly issues with a negative twist.
It seems that most of you are not happy with (in no particular order):
- Management
- Pay
- FDTs
- Actual Time to Command (vs promised time to Command)
- Lack of training with big "T" and poor training
- The building site that is referred to as Dubai
- Lack of a seniority based system
- Ts & Cs (i.e most of the above)
- Low morale
- Inflation
- Traffic on roads
- Lies from company
- Heat
- Sand
- Laws
- Cheap furniture in provided accommodation
- Provided accommodation
- ???? I am sure I have missed some....
But generally you all seem happy with:
- Nice, big, new shiny jets
- Leasure activities (when not suffering from exhaustion!!)
- ???? Hmm. Guess that is it.
So, all in all, it still sounds like a dire outfit to work for.....!
Oh, what the heck! Nothing ventured nothing gained (or lost in this case). Booked my ticket to the desert this afternoon, so will go and see with my own to eyes how bad it is. Always been interested in architecture, so even if I fail my assessment miserably, I can spend a few days admiring the sights/ sites. :ok:
Thanks again and I wish you all a much happier future career wherever you chose to go.
Regards,
Bigyin

[violate]

That pretty well covers it, however depending on your current situation it might be still worth a punt, just remeber that your expectations will take a continuous pounding after you get here.

[point8four]

And you thought KEEP DISCOVERING was meant for passengers only.

[ShockWave]

Some leave, most think about it (at least occasionally),and some leave and come back again! It ain't all bad or all good for that matter(just like anywhere else), as stated above keep discovering(for yourself)!


Have heard a rumour that at least one recently departed crew member has decided to leave his new job with J* and return to EK????

[Cyberbird]

... well the hard facts are (at least for me) ...

i'm now sitting over (!) 3 years on the RHS of a nice shiny A 332 (after not having enough hard hours on my previous command) - doing lots of overtime,
can't take my leave (portal says: Sorry - nothing avail/ all red!) and scored all my recent PPC's with 4 or better - and have NOT yet been called for aninterview for my upgrade - there is apparently a "capacity-problem" @the training department - what a bull***i. as they keep training DEC on behalf of ours - well, i know, i know it's their trian-set ...

... nd i wouldn't be whinging, if my salary wouldn't have gone DOWN some 25%-ish against the EWuro, which means i'm working some 90plus hours monthly for some crappy 4000ish Euros - that sucks really !!!!

So, a salray-increase of 30%-ish would just (but just !) cover my LOSSES from my salary i've received three years before !!

If that doesnT happen - i've just apdated my CV's on diferent databases -
just in case i have to come up with my "B-plan" - be prepared !!:*

[dedeita]

....

... nd i wouldn't be whinging, if my salary wouldn't have gone DOWN some 25%-ish against the EWuro, which means i'm working some 90plus hours monthly for some crappy 4000ish Euros - that sucks really !!!!



Basic salary 19660 dhs equals 4112 euros for 78 hours, 325 dhs for each productivity hours above 78 and you said you made 90plus hours that is around another 1000 euros. 5200 euros/month tax free, company accom, education allowance,car loan, 42 days leave, still continue being better than my package in my own country flying for a national flag carrier.

B-plan could be: send a letter to the EU goverment to devaluate the euro at least 20%. Traveling to Europe is more expensive each day
Regards

[Fart Master]

Dedeita, I think you have some fair comments......however,
1. How many months a year do you want to do 90 hours of Short/Medium/long & ULH, going east to west, min days off etc.:sad:

2. 4112 Euros = what I was earning after tax 4 years ago as an FO in europe, high cost of living etc, nope that doesn't stand up.:{

3. Company accom, swings both ways really, if you get your mortgage paid at home then it is a bonus, however if you want to go home to decompress from DXB once or twice a year it's nice to do it in your own home = having to pay your mortgage anyway= co. accom a bit of a benefit, also don't talk about buying/renting accom in DXB, bad karma dude:=

4. Ahh yes, 42 days leave, where a working week with weekends = 9 days leave, so we get 42/9 = 4.67 weeks leave per year, thats if the leave people will give it to you, I personally have no complaints, but I know a lot of people who have had rough deals.:}

5. Education allowance- I can get the same standard of education for my children for free at home, so I don't see it as a benefit at EK.:ok:

6. Car loan, the second word is loan, thats right you still have to pay it back. But yes I will give you the point thats it's interest free, so a small benefit there.:ok:

7. Although I have had to make comparisons with my home country to answer your points, I am not sure why you said it was better than the package in your own country, you won't be living in your own country. The one exception I will say is whether you have to send money home for mortgages etc. the AED is not worth much these days + UAE inflation is starting to hurt.:uhoh:

I hope my points may bring some perspective to your points, adios compadre

[dedeita]

Dedeita, I think you have some fair comments......however,
1. How many months a year do you want to do 90 hours of Short/Medium/long & ULH, going east to west, min days off etc.:sad: I been doing 90 for more than 10 years,as an example at my company roster..NRT-MEX-48hrs rest-MEX-MAD,i still in the short/medium haul


2. 4112 Euros = what I was earning after tax 4 years ago as an FO in europe, high cost of living etc, nope that doesn't stand up
.:{
my basic salary is 3000 euros/month, usually i dont see that amount because we fly a lot overtime but i dont want to tell you what happen when for some reason you dont hit overtime

3. Company accom, swings both ways really, if you get your mortgage paid at home then it is a bonus, however if you want to go home to decompress from DXB once or twice a year it's nice to do it in your own home = having to pay your mortgage anyway= co. accom a bit of a benefit, also don't talk about buying/renting accom in DXB, bad karma dude:=
no more thank God mortgages payments, we have a nice place in the Mexican Riviera that we are not keep it if we move to EK

4. Ahh yes, 42 days leave, where a working week with weekends = 9 days leave, so we get 42/9 = 4.67 weeks leave per year, thats if the leave people will give it to you, I personally have no complaints, but I know a lot of people who have had rough deals.:}
last year took only 10 days because the remaining 30 were paid,i couldnt say anything because was Union voted


5. Education allowance- I can get the same standard of education for my children for free at home, so I don't see it as a benefit at EK.:ok:
Hey Man remember that i am from Mexico,I wouldnt recommend goverment public school not even to my worst enemy(kindergarden around 300 euros/month)


6. Car loan, the second word is loan, thats right you still have to pay it back. But yes I will give you the point thats it's interest free, so a small benefit there.:ok:
Yes interest free, car loan annual interest in Mexico around 15% plus an annual payment they call TENENCIA of 2.6% the value of your car(1300 euros my case)


I hope my points may bring some perspective to your points, adios compadre
I really appreciate your time for reply, you gave me a perspective, i think that EK must be considered base on each individuals

Hasta la vista

[V2+ A Little]

i wish my only worry was to ek or not................

[ekpilot]

So children, to summarise: If you are from a Third World Country* then EK is for you, as the salary is fantastic compared to your home countries, the lifestyle enviable and the education far better than Bogota Grammar. However, if you're from Europe, Australia, NZ or the US and faced with the 'to EK or not EK' then it's hardly worth it.

Now does that statement reflect the current demographic make up of those joining and those leaving?

* Third World Country used as purely a reference to those countries that are normally commonly referred to as such, and certainly not part of the G8 group of nations. It does not reflect my own point of view as after all, Malaysia does have serious industrial aspirations and the Proton is a very fine car indeed. And Mexico? Don't they still manufacture VWs?

[Check 'Six']

Comparisons are one thing.

What your salary buys you in Dubai is another subject entirely.

Who cares about whether you are earning double what you are making now in your hometown? The real issue is what buying power do you have living in Dubai? Seeing as you and your families are going to be spending a large portion of your time and money here.
Now if you happen to have anything left over after spending on your expenses in DXB? That's great! Now you can look at what's left over to make any sort of comparison as to what that left over can buy you back home? Be it a mortgage a holiday etc...

Unless one decides that living in DXB as a single person, whilst the family lives abroad. Shares the cheapest accomodation one can find i.e paying for a room in a villa at Mirdiff. Keep expenditures to an absolute minimum and commute whenever and however possible to spend time with the family.

Commuting is very tough in EK. It was a lot easier years ago with an older rostering system called SBS. And simply because there were no restrictions on bidding for days off. I remember on a regular basis getting six days at the end of one month followed by another six or even eight at the beginning of the following month. Plus as a captain on the A310, doing 95 hours a month. Long before the 330/340.

And yes the cost of living was a lot cheaper. So my left over salary back then, bought me a lot back home and abroad.

In conclusion; Unless EK stick their hands deep in their pockets for a substantial pay increases and a massive change of their attitude toward their staff? The flood gates will remain open. They will not be able to retain key staff positions and they are certainly having a tough enough time to convince pilots to join.
They have saved huge sums of money by paying peanuts across their staff network for years. It's about time they put some of that hard earned money back into their own employees, which happens to be their biggest asset. But unless that big change in attitude occurs, we probably wont see anything significant in monetary terms either. Pity, really.

Check 'Six' :ok:

[Gillegan]

They have saved huge sums of money by paying peanuts across their staff network for years. It's about time they put some of that hard earned money back into their own employees, which happens to be their biggest asset. But unless that big change in attitude occurs, we probably wont see anything significant in monetary terms either. Pity, really.
Check 'Six' :ok:
Spot on as was the rest of your post. To folks sitting on the fence (either to leave or to come), the change in attitude is what is required and is what we probably won't see. This place really started to slide downhill about 4 years ago. Think back to what happened - the start of the hyper expansion and the appointment of a new airline president. Neither shows any signs of going away. This flight department is run exactly like the boys in the head office want it to be run. If the rumour is true that the jumpseat was denied us yet again when it finally made its way to the big guys desk, then it just goes to show that nothing has changed and most probably, nothing will change.

[uplock]

EKPILOT is close to the mark with his comment
Now does that statement reflect the current demographic make up of those joining and those leaving?

You could also add how each and every year we get the same speech about how great our salary and package is as Emirates have surveyed Top Airline Salaries and Conditions and what we get is in the top group.:eek:

Funny how none of us have yet to see these figures, these guys must have worked at Enron some time ago...

My bet is that there will not be a big salary or attitude change, just wish full thinking from us Minions.....

[ekpilot]

This place really started to slide downhill about 4 years ago. Think back to what happened - the start of the hyper expansion and the appointment of a new airline president.
Now we're getting closer to the truth. How insightful of you Gillegan. It is at this man's altar that the final decisions rest. Now, when has he ever changed anything for the better? As I said, a very insightful post by Mr. Gillegan.
ekpilot also has it spot on when talking about demographics. Oh, hang on that's me! Or is it? those 'in the know' will know that there are now probably over twenty of us ekpilots around, as well as EK Pilot! PM me and I'll let you know the password!! But I also agree with one of the other ekpilots when he said:
Now does that statement reflect the current demographic make up of those joining and those leaving?
As for the post by Check 'Six' I can only add my name to the list of those that acknowledge his wise words. But, money is not everything and if you are getting a lot more to play with here to compensate for the downside of thing, then all well and good, but I would prefer to drop a few grand a year and go elsewhere, somewhere where the grass is not just greener, but is there because nature intended it to be, not Emaar or Nakheel.
To repeat, it is not about the money. But good luck to all who choose to live here and work here, it's not bad for a while, but keep those expectations very low, Dubai inc. has a bad habit of hyping things up a bit! ;)

[BIKKERDENNAH]

Still waitn for this big payrise announcement!! The first of JAN has gone have the hopefuls all dissapeared have you all gone to greener pastures yet!!:ugh:

Thought not!!

Listen guys, EK employed and prospective employees.

No significant payrise 5 percent max.

DO NOT COME HERE UNLESS YOU WANNA LIVE IN A HOUSE MADE OF BRICKS!!! If you already do stay put!!

Jet airways will pay you double the salary to live back in Europe!! But thats a different thread!

Dont work days off!! dont be pilot prositutes, respect yourselves and know what you are worth!! Forget the BASKET OF AIRLINES PACKAGE CRAP they (the management) speak through their backsides and are lyeing to everyone. Including all prospective pilots wanting to join!

NO PAYRISE, NO PROBLEMS,EVERYTHING IS GOOD,EVERBODY IS HAPPY!!

YEHHHH RIGHT!!:ouch: