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PFR
30th Dec 2006, 15:25
Britain will settle its World War II debts to the US and Canada when it pays two final instalments before the close of 2006, the Treasury has said.
The payments of $83.25m (42.5m) to the US and US$22.7m (11.6m) to Canada are the last of 50 instalments since 1950.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6215847.stm
Am I the only one, or have I missed something :hmm: Should'nt our European cousins have been contributing to these payments, considering they benefitted from the libration we brought - especially when their economies became strong & successful. Read France, read Germany even :confused:
:ugh:
Cheers to all & Happy New Year.

tonker
30th Dec 2006, 21:51
Some special relationship. They should have been paying us. And our special friends in the USA should remember that they didn't enter the second world war, it entered them in Pearl Harbour.

Our special friends watched us burn for 2 and a half years, and now real off pointless hero worship films telling everyone how they won it singlehanded.:ugh:

Skylion
31st Dec 2006, 11:29
These loans were taken out when the USA suddenly terminated the wartime lease-lend arrangements and were to keep our heads above water while we reconstructed our devastated industry and infrastructure. European countries took out similar loans under varying deals. The difference was they used theirs to ..... reconstruct their devastated industry and infrastructure. We used ours largely to.............fund the introduction of the welfare state and NHS. No surprises as to who did better. We can't blame anyone else.

Lucy Lastic
31st Dec 2006, 11:39
And the US made great gains on the back of our indebtedness. We handed over many of our technical developments to them, cancelled many of our projects (TSR2 amongst them) and promised to buy American equipment instead. We handed over bases and land on indefinite leases and displaced populations.

No these 'loans' were a millstone around our necks and, whilst France was able to act in its own interests, we have always trailed after the US.

Perhaps now we can start thinking about our own interests.

StbdD
31st Dec 2006, 13:04
Yeah, always alot of fun these debates, then someone comes along and provides the facts.

Please note that the loan in question was after the war as during it the US Taxpayers GAVE the UK about $24.6 Billion worth of food and supplies.

FROM VARIOUS SOURCES

The U.S. extended $4.34 billion in credit in 1945, allowing the U.K. to stave off bankruptcy after devoting almost all its resources to the war for half a decade. Since 1950 Britain has made payments on the debt at the end of every year except six. No worries, shit happens.

The loan, the equivalent of 119 billion pounds in today's money, or $233,109,365,511.57, was double the size of the U.K. economy at the time. Today it's a fraction of the Treasury's 550 billion-pound debt burden, about 36.4 percent of the economy. But no worries, Britain was on it's ass and needed help.

At the time it was granted, the loan strained trans-Atlantic relations. British politicians expected a gift in recognition of their contribution to the war effort. Yeah, right. A $233,109,365,511.57 present. I don't think so.

"It was vital support which helped Britain defeat Nazi Germany and secure peace and prosperity in the postwar period," U.K. Treasure ministed Ed Balls said in a statement from the Treasury. "We honor our commitments to them now as they honored their commitments to us all those years ago."

A total of $50.1 billion worth of supplies were shipped from the US: $31.4 billion to Britain, $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion to France and $1.6 billion to China. Reverse Lend Lease comprised services (like rent on air bases) that went to the U.S. It totalled $7.8 billion, of which $6.8 billion came from the Britain and the Commonwealth. Apart from that, there were no repayments of supplies that arrived before the termination date. (Supplies after that date were sold to Britain at a 75% discount, or $650 million, using long-term loans from the U.S.) No lend lease money went to Canada, which operated a similar program that sent $4.7 billion in supplies to Britain and Soviet Union.

Large quantities of goods were in Britain or in transit when Washington terminated Lend-Lease on 2 September 1945. These were sold to Britain for about 10 cents on the dollar with payment to be stretched out for 50 years at 2% interest.

I'm not an accountant but it seems the US taypayers GAVE the UK $24.6 BILLION. The ridiculously low interest rates on the rest of what was BOUGHT seems pretty reasonable.

To those that understand this was a post war debt to be paid, respect. Congrats to have paid it off. To the rest that prefer to bite the hand that helped... sorry, I'd prefer not to be kicked off pprune. But I will say that we'd like our $24.6BILLION back thanks. In 1945 dollars please.

As to the timing of the fight, I'd guess that Poland (whose security the UK garaunteed), the Rhineland, Checkslovokia , Austria, Ethiopia and China might debate when and in fact IF the UK fought. Without being too much of a stick in yer eye, you didn't do much in France either. Your greatest accomplishment there being a retreat in which you lost most of your weapons and material.

The US replaced your weapons, fed your people, protected the convoys and eventually came into the war. Have a glance around the RA, RN, RAF and the FAA in 1940 and 1941 to see if the US was involved.

Have a look at the convoys of food for Britain escorted by US Navy forces, to the loss of at least one destroyer with 115 hands....before the formal entrance of the US into the war.

In short, didn't do our part? Fark you. We paid for it, supplied it and fought it. Eventually we won it ALONG with our allies.

Don't like our movies? Make your own you incredibly witless twit.

ZH875
31st Dec 2006, 13:25
And all we need now, is for the US to recommence payments of their WWI debts to Britain, after they were stopped in 1934 because of the state of the US economy at that time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5359574.stm

"There are still World War I debts owed to and by Britain. Since a moratorium on all debts from that conflict was agreed at the height of the Great Depression, no repayments have been made to or received from other nations since 1934."

I wonder which countries are still owed money, how much, and by whom.

StbdD
31st Dec 2006, 13:48
No worries ZH875, Take it out of the $24.6 billion, buy a round or two, and send the rest to us mate. We're easy.

Oh wait you're right, the UK owes the US money from WWI as well. Lets buy the bar a few rounds first then. Then we'll send the cheque.

PFR
31st Dec 2006, 13:54
Thanks for the replies.
So that's where it all went Skylion (another Labour Goverment spending policy :hmm: ).
The facts make interesting reading StbdD - however this still doesn't change the tennent of my original post - the US Bank rolled the show, the UK paid the numbers (119 Billion in today's money - a lot of money :eek:, as is 36.4 percent of the economy) so why didn't the European countries, so liberated from Nazi tyrany, contribute :*
:ugh:

StbdD
31st Dec 2006, 15:35
although it's wikipedia it's worth a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

PPRuNe Pop
31st Dec 2006, 19:09
OK let us get some semblance of sense here.

Since when would this subject be worthy of Aircraft History and Nostalgia?

It isn't and I will not allow it to continue any further.

How the starter of this thought it should be on here, or anywhere else on PPRuNe for that matter, is a nonsense.

It is a matter for the Government. It is political and it is certainly a subject that is VERY VERY old and way over most peoples heads - certainly the ones who frequent this forum.

This thread is closed.

Happy New Year.