Emergency Brace Position

[pulse1]

A few days before Christmas a friend of mine was involved as a passenger in an emergency landing at Heathrow. The briefing for the brace position included the instruction not to interlock ones fingers when you put your hands together above your head.

He was asked by his neighbour why that was and, apart from showing his macabre sense of humour by suggesting it was to stop your fingers fusing together in the fire and therefore making it harder to put your body in the bag, he didn't know. When he asked me, I said I might know a man who does.

Can anybody tell us?

As they left the aircraft, after a normal landing, every passenger was asked for name and telephone number. Why would that have been?

Incidentally, he also said that the BA cabincrew were superb even though he thought it was a first for most of them.

[garthicus]

Perhaps its to do with broken fingers on impact (my thinking is that if your fingers are interlocked it may happen???? :uhoh: )

I assume the names and addresses etc was for insurance purposes (Whiplash etc)

I also would assume it probably was the Cabin Crews first time in an actual real life situation where a brace was called for.

[Tigger4Me]

With seat pitch getting smaller all the time, I have often wondered how on earth we are supposed to adopt the brace position as shown on the safety card. I'm not medically obese but with my waistline and barely enough room to put my legs comfortably behind the seat in front, there is no way I would be able to bend double and kiss my backside! :uhoh:

[Getoutofmygalley]

We say to you not to interlock your fingers purely because your fingers might get broken in a bad landing. And, if the cabin crew are incapacitated and YOU have to operate the emergency exits (either main doors or window plug type) you will find it a hell of a lot more difficult to do with broken fingers.

The request for telephone number and address might be so that the airline can contact you to check that a) you are ok and b) to inform you of the actual details of the event, so that you know the reasons why you were told to brace and the like.

[PaperTiger]

It's actually the forearms which are supposed to be placed on top of the head, one on top of the other with the upper arms close against the sides of the skull. You can't physically do that if you interlock the fingers (go on, try it). Most of the safety cards do a poor representation of this position.

Protecting the head is much more important than a few broken fingers.

[TightSlot]

With seat pitch getting smaller all the time, I have often wondered how on earth we are supposed to adopt the brace position as shown on the safety card. I'm not medically obese but with my waistline and barely enough room to put my legs comfortably behind the seat in front, there is no way I would be able to bend double and kiss my backside! :uhoh:
AFAIK The brace position is primarily concerned with protection of the head from impact with the seat in front: The only time there is a need to bend double is at seats such as a bulkhead or exit, where there is no seat row directly in front.

[Getoutofmygalley]

It's actually the forearms which are supposed to be placed on top of the head, one on top of the other with the upper arms close against the sides of the skull. You can't physically do that if you interlock the fingers (go on, try it). Most of the safety cards do a poor representation of this position.
Protecting the head is much more important than a few broken fingers.
Maybe that is the way that the airline you work for does things, but my companies emergency PA's say the following:
Only when you hear the instruction “BRACE, BRACE”, take up the following position:

Place feet apart on the floor with your legs back against your seat.
Rest your head on the seat in front of you.
Place your hands on top of your head, one on top of the other.

The Cabin Crew will now point out the emergency exits. etc etc

During the preparation of the cabin, the cabin crew will get each pax to adopt the brace position (time permitting) so that we can check each pax does it correctly. Any pax who interlocks fingers is to be told not to do that and to just place one hand on top of the other on their head.

[CD]

Another point of view:

Advisory Circular 0155 - Brace Positions for Impact (http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/circulars/AC0155.htm)

[BWBriscoe]

Just out of curiosity what was the reason for the emergency landing and consequential brace position being needed?

This is quite a major event and I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned here before.

Ben

[pulse1]

BWBriscoe,
Just out of curiosity what was the reason for the emergency landing

It was a BA shuttle from Glasgow and I understand that one of the gear down/locked lights was out. They held for about an hour while the bulbs were changed and the passengers briefed. It happened just before the fog arrived.

Thanks everyone for the information.

[manintheback]

The mythbusters program did a number of experiments to 'test a myth' that the brace position recommended in the USA was designed to break peoples necks as its cheaper to compensate relatives of the dead than pay mediacal expenses for a lifetime of severely disabled. In all the tests its showed that the brace used was very effective for safety - unfortunately the design of the seats meant the risk of breaking legs/ankles was very high.

[perkin]

Does occupying one of those diagonal first class bed/seat things make any difference to the brace position? Surely it is better to be facing along the direction of travel - ie forward or aft, rather than diagonally across the direction of travel?

[Tarq57]

The only diagonal lie-flat beds I've had the good fortune to travel in have airbags fitted to the seat belt, regulatory requirement I believe, for just that reason. Makes for a fairly bulky seatbelt. Also means you can have the seat reclined (but not flat) for takeoff and landing. I don't know what tests have been done to indicate relative safety over the standard brace position.

[sox6]

Was there not a piston engine airliner (maybe DC7) accident in England (the Midlands?) in the 60s were most of the pax broke their ankles on impact and they then died in the following fire?

[PaperTiger]

Was there not a piston engine airliner (maybe DC7) accident in England (the Midlands?) in the 60s were most of the pax broke their ankles on impact and they then died in the following fire?Canadair Argonaut, Stockport 1967.The AIB also examined the survivability of the accident. Autopsies on the passengers showed that although those in the very front of the accident had been killed by rapid deceleration injuries, those further aft had suffered massive crushing injuries to their lower legs that prevented them from escaping the burning wreckage. Investigators discovered that the bracing bars meant to keep the rows of seats separate were too weak to prevent the rows from collapsing together like a concertina, and determined that had the bars been adequately strong, most of the passengers would have been able to escape the aircraft.

[flybywire]

As some have already mentioned, fingers should not be interlocked to reduce the possibility of fractures.

Correct. They also advise to put your "weak" hand (in my case my left) on top of the "good" hand (the right for me) so that you can try to protect it better in case you need it later to open a door etc.

The arms are to protect the head first of all, however note they shouldn't cover your ears. It's important to keep your ears free so that you can hear what's going on = whether to evacuate or not, which way to go etc.

[stevef]

It would be interesting to read comparisons of accident injuries in relation to forward/aft-facing seats (which I believe the RAF used in dedicated pax aircraft).

[flybywire]

Mmmmm.....BA have aft facing pax seats in Club World, it would be interesting to see what studies they did before coming up with this solution. I shall look into it :)

[manintheback]

It would be interesting to read comparisons of accident injuries in relation to forward/aft-facing seats (which I believe the RAF used in dedicated pax aircraft).

Tested in passenger aircaft, there were some unexpected results. Debris flying forward - hand luggage and the like caused severe and fatal injury although the impacts that could be absorbed were greater.

[stevef]

Some interesting information in this Pprune thread (dated 14/8/2000):
http://www.pprune.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-40716.html

[PaperTiger]

Tested in passenger aircaft, there were some unexpected results. Debris flying forward - hand luggage and the like caused severe and fatal injury although the impacts that could be absorbed were greater.Bl00dy He|| :eek: Now that's what I call a test.

[GANNET FAN]

I'm 6'4" and there is no way I can adopt the brace position as indicated in the safet bumph. Surprised no one has mentioned this earlier but if seats are broken from their bindings then I'm not sure it makes much difference what position you are in.

JC