AAA View from the back - An Alternative Alcoholism & Pilots thread

[late developer]

Am I the only one who is becoming sickened by the self-righteousness of 'redeemed alcoholic pilots' and their over-liberal 'professional' supporters club being spouted in the sticky Pilot Jailed (Alcoholism & Pilots) in the main forum?

That thread has been subjected to heavy editing to make it what it is. My views were censored and I am currently not authorised to post in Rumours & News (for a second time). No explanation has been given for the restriction. Like last time, I'd just read how one or two prominent posters didn't like my views, then my views got chopped and I couldn't view the forum anymore unless I was logged out. Just plain censorship.

I personally am totally disinterested in flying as a passenger behind a redeemed alcoholic. I don't think alcoholics or any kind of person who drinks too much or does drugs & flies deserves any kind of redemption as a professional pilot. I think that allowing a fallen pilot to go back to flying an airliner full of strangers after being caught once already is a totally ridiculous suggestion. No one is that indispensable.

I think that if the message from the industry to its pilots is as 'namby-pamby' as the current thrust in the main thread, the industry cannot be trusted to keep itself clean. There are more than enough other pilots coming through who do not have drink problems at all and who never will. They might not be as good pilots as some who fall from grace by my rules, but I'll live with that thanks.

If you are a professional pilot and you have a drinks cabinet that you open most days after work then I am sorry friend, you probably are a problem and I want you tested when you go on duty.

If you are a professional pilot and your idea of a good day usually involves going to a bar with friends when you are off duty then sorry friend but you probably are a problem and I want you tested.

If you are a professional pilot and you regularly drink the two beers or spirits from the minibar then sorry friend you probably are a problem and I want you tested.

The other thread seems to conclude a weird mix of
(a) implication that 'there is no evidence to suggest' the problem is significant enough to warrant ruining a pilot's career, and
(b) observation that if too much noise is made, the sensitive little furry problem pilots will hide and won't come out to where we can hold our hands out to them.

I can't be doing with that kind of mealy-mouthed claptrap. Test them all I say. If you fail you are out. It's tough. I really don't care whether you have a disease or just a bad habit or a bad day. Go fly your mother, but not mine.

I don't suppose my views so put DO sit comfortably with any huge majority, but neither do I believe I am diametrically opposed to the majority view.

What say the rest of you here in the back?

[Juud]

The stupidest post of the year award is rightly yours, late developer

redeemed alcoholic

is the direct opposite of alcoholics or any kind of person who drinks too much or does drugs

You understand that LD? The 2 things are not the same, they are not similar, they are mutually exclusive.
What you think is an argument, is in fact no such thing. It doesn´t hold water, there´s no logic, it´s nothing.

I'll live with that thanks Well that´s great to hear, but who cares what you will or will not live with? Are you the one who´s paid large sums of money to train these pilots? Are you the Representative of the Pax Worldwide? What you will or will not live with is totally uninteresting to anybody but you and you alone. But thanks for sharing. :rolleyes:

Show me some hard evidence that there is a problem, other than the one in your mind. Go on, show me?
small tip; sensationalist telly progs or your cousin thrice removed knowing the sister of woman who´s uncle is a pilot and likes his drink too much is NOT statistical hard evidence
Regular testing is no skin off my back one way or the other, apart from yet an additional silly wasteful deceptive window dressing hassle.
Of course the fact that there is no proof whatsoever that there is a problem that needs addressing should not in any way deter people like you from clamouring for costly and irritating measures that accomplish absolutely nothing. Are you sure not a politician?

I just wonder, does your point of view have anything to do with the fact that your big hope in life is to beome an airline pilot? As such, the more pilots get sacked, the better for you? No, of course not.

I suggest you forbid your mother to fly. Far safer you driving her everywhere in your Zafira than entrusting her life to all those P!ssed Pilots. After all, road transport is SO much safer than air travel.


Oh and LD, you asked for views ´from the back´.
I spend more time down the back of ailiners than you ever will. There are many things in civil aviation that I worry about (you want the list?) but redeemed alcoholics up front isn´t one of them.

Your post sucks, your reasoning sucks and as for the majority view; when has a majority ever had a view worth listening to?

[late developer]

:ok:

Next?

[sad or what]

:ok:

Next?


You sound like a real K@@B, I think what the JUUD said just about sums it up! :ugh:

[late developer]

:ok: , but sorry I don't know what a K@@B is, nor MOD.
Seems to be 2:1 majority so far Juud not in any form of agreement with me:uhoh:
What was it you said about the majority again, Juud?
PS I am no longer a PP wannabe. I can't be a**ed with the commercial pressure and consequent erosion I have witnessed, or with employment contract & conditions hassle. My eyes and ears passed Class 1 but aren't really good enough anymore, and like many, I don't think I handle big stress too well (although I admit I am lucky enough never to have believed I might fix that with drink or drugs).
So I have ruled myself out of the front, but I sit in the back quite frequently thanks, and when I do, since I am the one paying for all those expensive costs you worry about, I like it to be just so.

Edit: So you've edited out MOD and submitted JUUD. So MOD = JUUD, which means?

[sad or what]

:ok: , but sorry I don't know what a K@@B is, nor MOD.


Ok, well....K@@B= those things that are on doors...ie knob.

Yes edited to change MOD to JUUD, as I mistakenly thought JUUD was a moderator...happy now? Jeez! :ugh:

I can see where you got the inspiration for your name now LD.

[TightSlot]

:ok:
Next?
Next is me. Next is the end of the world as you know it. Next is no more late developer.

So, you're tossed out of R&N and something makes you think that this forum is the next best soapbox for you to stand on while lecturing us about censorship and alcoholism in an industry about which you have little understanding? Think again.

If you have a point to make, then in this forum you do so intelligently, considerately and without an intent to provoke or offend. Having asked a question you will then take note of responses provided by those whose industry knowledge and PPRuNe value and history massively exceeds yours. You get no further chances on this - either clean up your act right now, or your posting priviledges on PPRuNe will be permanently withdrawn.

Clear?

[late developer]

Perfectly clear Sir!

Shall we make this a sticky then?

[fyrefli]

What say the rest of you here in the back?

I say (and I've read the original thread regularly and extensively, so have seen it unedited), "If I said what I really thought about your attitude, I'd be heading for a banning too".

:rolleyes:

[SXB]

LD
Your post is simply a statement of your own views, you don't include anything factual or concrete to suggest there is an alcohol problem in the aviation industry (which there isn't, of course) You also make sweeping comments which basically say that anyone who has a drink isn't fit to be a pilot.

Firstly, alcoholism is a disease which can be cured, you will come across reformed alcoholics in positions involving public safety everyday. There is nothing wrong with such people holding positions of trust. In anycase, why are you singling out reformed alcoholics ? What about people who have suffered some sort of mental illness in the past ? (one in four people suffer from a mental health problem at some point in their life) Are these people fit to fly an aircraft ? What about people who've had other serious health problems ? Howabout firing all pilots who support Chelsea ?

I'm not quite sure why you are raising this subject in the first place, the aviation industry doesn't suffer from an abnormally high alcohol abuse rate, planes are not falling out of the sky because pilots are coming straight from the bar to the FD. Once or twice a year the press seize upon any incident involving aviation and alcohol, normally the coverage is inaccurate, sensationalistic and irresponsible.

[Chesty Morgan]

LD, I'm not in a position to comment on 'redeemed alcoholic pilots'. I've never met any, redeemed or not, which in itself should be a bit of a hint.

The inclusion of the words "Professional Pilot" in your original post, as a description of what I do, precludes me from EVER turning up to work unfit for duty.

I take exceptional offence that you are stating "I am a problem and need testing" because I enjoy a drink.

Should I be tested each time I get in a car, should you? Should you be tested before every post you make? There are probably more alcoholics, redeemed or otherwise, steaming up and down the M1 in 40 ton trucks. Not worried about those are you?

If I am tested I will not fail and I am not a problem, along with 99.999% of the pilot community. Much to your disappointment no doubt.

Chesty, a drinks cabinet owning, pub frequenting, mini bar using professional pilot.

P.S. If you can back up your statements with facts then I will be more than happy to hear them.

[BOFH]

I hope this will never be a sticky, as it appears most people are lining up to give your views a good shoeing - which they thoroughly deserve. The approbrium which you are attracting to yourself is best forgotten, wouldn't you agree?

I mean, let's get this straight - you jump into a thread which has the benefit of not only FL's input, but that of a man whose career was seemingly wrecked by his actions, yet served his debt to society, redeemed his position, obtained a pardon, and has been an inspiration to many others. You were admonished for looking for a problem which doesn't exist - and then came here.

In the meantime, you endear yourself to the engineers who keep aircraft running on another thread, which should have been entitled: "Mummy, I saw flaky paint near the engine! We're all going to die!". Wasn't that fun?

The pilots who fly aircraft have to compete aggressively, study assiduously and work dam' hard to keep these fragile pieces of aluminium in one piece. They have to stay fit enough to retain their jobs and sane enough to have some sort of life outside of them. Their companies test them, time and time again, how they'd react in situations which would leave the rest of us sitting in a puddle of brown goo.

Your careless assertion that because a few people - and they are humans, after all - succumb, and that therefore everybody else has to be treated as though they are a priori suspect, is an immense insult to the hard work that pilots have put into their careers. Moreover, your dismissal of the tremendous efforts of people who have been affected by alcoholism to abjure, and then overcome it, is a frankly disgusting display of your attitude towards other people.

I despair that you have so little faith in the people who guide these tin cans through the sky - but if you are that worried, I'll happily wager 1000GBP at 100/1 that neither you nor your mother will come to grief because of an intoxicated pilot over the next year (but you can get better odds at Ladbroke's).

BOFH

[TightSlot]

I can't imagine that there will be many better answers than this, so let's put LD out of his misery (and ours) and close it down.