Laser Eye Correction question

[James Grant]

Hi,

I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to give me a little advice on laser eye correction.

My background....

I am currently training in America, I have an FAA PPL (H) and have just started my IFR rating with my CPL (H), CFI and CFII to follow. I am very short sighted and use corrective lenses when flying.

I have spoken to both my optician and doctor and they are a little vague on the implications of qualifying for a CPL if I were to have laser surgery on my eyes.

Please can someone who knows the hard facts or has even had surgery on their eyes, help me as I am seriously considering this in 2007.

Many thanks

James

P.S. I forgot to mention, I will be converting to JAA in 2008, would this be an issue?

[rotorrookie]

I had one... was expensive but I don't regret a dime. The laser surgries are today over 98% successful or more... Just make sure they got the latest thech laserhttp://zyoptix.com/

The first years of laser surgeries the CAA would not approve them but now they do at least all JAA states do so....

[Lunar]

I have just spent two minutes finding this info, maybe have a search on the CAA website before posting a question...

I just cut a pasted the document but the doc can be found at...

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=527

and click on the link to JAR initial exam...

Best of luck.

Lunar.


JAR Class 1 (Professional Pilot) Initial Examination Visual Standards

These are the JAR Class 1 visual standards as applied by the UK CAA.


Distance Vision
Your visual acuity (measured by your ability to see, in this case, lines of letters on a chart at 6 metres)
must be at least 6/9 in each eye separately and 6/6 using both eyes together, with or without glasses or
contact lenses (correction). If you need correction the refractive error (the amount of correction) must
not exceed +5.00 dioptres of long sight or -6.00 dioptres of short sight. This is in the most ametropic
meridian (taking into account any astigmatism). Astigmatism must not exceed 2.00 dioptres. The
difference in correction between each eye (anisometropia) must not be more than 2.00 dioptres. Your
optometrist will be able to explain these terms.


Near Vision
On the standard near vision eye chart you must be able to read the N5 print between 30 and 50 cm and
the N14 print at 100 cm, with or without correction.


Contact Lenses
You may wear contact lenses as a professional pilot (but not to correct near vision). If you do wear
contact lenses, you should bring a report from an optometrist to your initial Class 1 examination, which
includes the following:

• your contact lens specification and corrected visual acuity;
• confirmation that you have worn your contact lenses constantly and successfully for over eight
hours a day over a period of at least one month.


All gas permeable and hard contact lenses must be removed at least 48 hours before the initial Class 1
medical examination. Any contact lenses should be brought to the examination. Multifocal contact
correction are not acceptable for lenses or monovision
Class 1 certification.


Refractive Surgery
The CAA does not recommend refractive surgery to gain a medical certificate to fly. The decision to
have this type of treatment must be between you and your eye specialist. In fact the certification limits
of eye correction with glasses and the limits of refraction before surgery are the same, so it is not
possible to gain a medical certificate by having refractive surgery, that you would not have obtained by
wearing glasses. However, if you have had refractive surgery, Class 1 certification will be considered
three months after a LASIK procedure, (provided an assessment including refraction has been carried
out at two months post-operatively). Certification can be considered six months after LASEK/PRK for
myopia (provided an assessment is carried out at three months post-operatively at Gatwick).
is usually possible one year after other types of operation. Please note that: Certification

• the pre-operative refraction should not have been more than + 5.00 to -6 dioptres (applicants just
or advice.) outside this range should contact the CAA Medical Department f
• an assessment by an eye specialist at Gatwick will be required
stability of refraction must be achieved. To show this• you will need to obtain a report showing your
twick visit
• you must have no problems with glare



Colour Vision
You will be tested for normal colour vision with Ishihara Test Plates (a series of numbers outlined by
different coloured dots, easily seen by someone with normal colour vision). If you fail these you will
need to pass an approved lantern test (a series of coloured lights that you must identify correctly) in
order to gain a JAR Class 1 certificate.


Eye Function
You must have normal fields of vision.
You must not suffer from double vision.
Any degree of heterophoria (eye muscle imbalance) in excess of:
8Δ exo, 10Δ eso or 2Δ hyperphoria - measured at 6 m
or
12Δ exo, 8Δ eso or 1Δ hyperphoria - measured at 33 cm
will require further evaluation by an eye specialist at Gatwick.
There must be no acute or chronic disease in either eye or surrounding structures.

[thecontroller]

my advice: get a jaa class 1 medical NOW. BEFORE YOU SPEND ANY MORE MONEY.

[unstable load]

It's completely unrelated to getting a medical, but I thought I would add it to the thread just for info.

One of the conditions that can be successfully treated by laser surgery leads to an increased risk of a detached retina as a consequence of the surgery. I know this has no bearing in getting a medical, bt if you take part in serious physical sports like rugby, squash, hockey etc you may want to look into it further.

[James Grant]

Thank you all for your answers and yes, I agree, I should have looked at the CAA website first. :ugh:

I suppose I was just curious to see if anyone had a first hand account of having the surgery and if they had any issues afterwards.

Happy New Year to you all.

Best regards

James

[nicky3726]

i had laser surgery in the early90,s. in fact i was one of the first to do so, i went from -5 in both eyes to perfect vision . however last year i decided i wanted to fly helicopters,went for a medical and was told i could not have one cos of my laser surgery.after months of talking to the caa they decided to let me have a medical certificate. so despite what it says their policy is ,dont take it for granted,or get it done and dont tell them at all,i offered the information and it caused no end of problems.

[Lunar]

Interesting nicky3726, but I was told before that the ophthalmic specialist would spot the procedure. Is this not the case?


Lunar

[Fugazi1000]

I have personal experience of the surgery, though I am not a pilot.

I had Lasek which involves dissolving the cells of the cornea with alcohol prior to the laser treatment (which reduces the risk of future problems with impact injuries). I was -4.0 in both eyes. Post treatment I am 20/20 although my night vision has definitely suffered. I now see a halo around tungsten/sodium type lights and any sharp halogen or LED style lights 'star'. Dusk/dull conditions also need more concentration as there is less contrast and movement is sometimes harder to see than previously when wearing contact lenses.

I consider myself safe to drive at night, although it does amaze me that the legal standard of vision is so lax. I'm not sure if there is more rigour for a pilot - i.e. testing in varying conditions, but I do think there ought to be.

[cpi2003]

Grant,

I have recently had laser surgery in Ireland. Over here (altho if its a JAA then its the same everywhere in europe) you are allowed to have laser on the condition that it is (1.)successful, i.e. not adverse reactions from the laser , ie halo's at night time etc... and (2.)that your eyesight does not exceed the eyesight limits prior to the surgery.

If you eyesight is greater than -5 you will fail the Class one medical. For the class two they extend that to -8. Unfortunately I was a -8.5 so now Im training under the FAA.

I would recommend either going for the laser now, before you spend all that money on training or just leave it for good. Regardless of how long you are flying if your laser surgery is unsucessful you can fail your medical!!

Before you do anything get onto the JAA themselves and tell them the details. They are a lot stricter with eyesight than the FAA are.

[James Grant]

OK, that's a bit of a worry as I am -6 in both eyes! :eek: I think I need to make some phone calls before I go back to the US next week.

Thank you for all your answers.

Best regards

James

[nicky3726]

interesting about the halos and what is called starburst,i did suffer from both of these problems initially but as time went by both problems went. it took about 6 months

[mau mau]

If you get a 1 FAA medical, and get FAA CPL flight licence, when you will come back in UK, you can stay quiete sure, because your medical will be something like a "renewal" of FAA medical & certificate ICAO and will be not a classic initial. So if you are out of limits for a classic 1 initial UK, easily after FAA CPL Flight licence, you will be good fo 1 JAA class.
And even, you will spend less: 264£ rather 400£

[EN48]

I considered this a few years ago and asked my AME (one of the more prominent aeromedical examiners in the U.S.) about it and he said "Dont even think about it!"

An alternative you may wish to consider is contact lenses. I began wearing these more than 40 years ago when I began flying. I am able to obtain a far better correction than with eyeglasses, and even now at age 64, by using multifocal contacts, I have excellent near and distant vision and do not need supplemental reading glasses. I have never had an anxious moment due to contact lenses while flying, however, I do keep eyeglasses close at hand just in case; in 40+ years, the only need I have had for them is an occasional late night jaunt to the loo. Not everyone can tolerate wearing contacts, but for those who can, an excellent solution.

[rockpecker]

As long as you can get by with your glasses or your contacts, DONT, DONT, DONThave any refractive surgery done to your eyes.
There are better concepts in the pipeline, with far more predictability, reversibility, better contrast sensitivity and less disruption of night vision, and less alteration to the corneal physiology.
In the meantime, hang in there, contact or spectacle-corrected shortsightedness still makes you medically fit to fly, but a botched LASIK cuts your flying days short forever.
Please, dont!:8

[Pitchpull]

I had LASIK done in 1994 in Australia, one of the first Pilots if not the first in Oz. I had my class1 medical suspended for 6 months but then after my Opthalmic Surgeon who was a specialist CAA (then) consultant wrote them a letter & I regained my class1 medical & have not had any problems. I am still 20/20 but my reading ability has deteriorated some in the past 2 years, but that I suspect is more to do with being 50 rather than the surgery I had 15 years ago. If I had my time again I would definitely do it, to have the freedom of not being slaved to glasses & contacts. It has bean a most wonderful experience to have had this surgery. Be sure that the surgeon is good. The guy I picked Dr. Paul Hughes from southline eye clinic used to do the old Russian technique of putting cuts directly on the lense with a scalpel, he was great. Nothing in life is without some risk.

[mau mau]

If you're lucky and all goes 100% according to plan, you may have 8-12 years worth for your money, but WILL have trouble at night, so no night flying. After this your refractive error will shift again, and you will need glasses again, only this time they won't work as well.
This procedure is NOT for pilots. It is for housewifes, models, 20- and 30-something girls with vanity issues and the like, NOT for anyone who needs critical vision.

What you talkin about??
You are out of way, even if you are "inside" as you said.
Perhaps it was as you say 20 years ago!
I done RPK 10 years ago, I still have 10/10, no glare, no problem at the night, i fly often at night, at day, with sun, fog, bad wheather, vfr IFR...no problem at all and I have 1 class FAA cpl/twin/IR.
So STOP your terror and uncorrect informations please.
If everyone did the laser surgery, the sales of glasses will be stop so is due that many people "inside profession" say "don't do laser" (if not I can not sell glasses and contact lenses).

[manfromuncle]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3605309#post3605309

[docstone]

Consider it very carefully - I'm a heli pilot and doctor and had Lasek....and the previous posts are mostly accurate...but the results for some people are unpredictable especially when it comes to night vision. It is not uncommon to be left with less good night vision than pre-surgery, especially halos (as I have mildy). Risks of major compleciatipons are extremely low, but a small percentage will need a re-do in the months after the initial procedure to gain an optimum result.

Also, in the years following surgery it is again not uncommon for near vision to detriorate after correction for short sightedness, often leading to the need for glsses to see close-up...so you could in theory substititute one visual defect for another, not necessarily to the same degree though. The overall results also tend to drift with age and the passing of time as the lens becomes less flexible.

I have no regrets about undergoing the Lasek (especially with young kids around), but for a CPL/ATPL upon whose career eyesight will depend, research long and hard - pick your surgeon very carefully indeed, it can make a significant difference in long term outcome.

[G-BYNI]

Firstly Hi everyone

Has anyone got any experience about Laser eye surgery and Class 1 CAA medical, I have spoken to the CAA and as they state on their web site they do not recommend it, no surprises there then. I have been wearing contacts lenses for 10 years and my eyes have been stable the whole time. So I guess my question is has any one had this done and how was your experience with the CAA.

Thanks :)

[tcw3]

Is there someone out there who has actually interviewed/worked for any >Japanese< carrier that can assist me with a (vision improvement type) laser eye surgery question?

Please know I have already read all that I can locate on this website. (I have read a few posts that leaned towards saying that this procedure is not permitted in Japan) I then took the extra step of writing two of the broker agencies that have been around for a long time. An established person at Wasinc said this procedure is prohibited by the Japanese Gov’t.

But to confuse the issue further a senior Asia person at Rishworth wrote me that an applicant can succeed when applying to a Japanese carrier but reminded me of the necessary steps, ie that one must disclose this on the front end, bring one’s existing home country aviation Medical Certificate and bring the before and after eye measurements from the Dr who performed the surgery. So, from the employment offices that should know, I have received two answers that contradict one another.

In a nutshell,
1 can a pilot successfully obtain a Japanese Gov’t airline pilot’s Level medical if they are healthy in all areas but have previously had successful Laser eye surgery (to improve their vision)? I know radial keratonamy won’t passed, but if they do permit it does the Japanese Gov’t distinguish with a thumbs up/down between PRK and Lasik?

2 If the Japanese Gov’t permits it, does it end up being a de facto item of not getting hired cause no actual Airline in Japan will offer employment to a pilot who has had this?

3 And while we are on this topic, might you happen to know if Laser eye surgery for vision improvement is permitted in
Korea
Singapore
Malaysia
China


I appreciate whatever info you can passed along. I don’t mind filling out all the various applications but I would like to avoid spending the time barking up the wrong tree if this is a No Go item in certain countries. I imagine your answer will help out a good number of pilots out on this website. Thanks.

[rotorfan]

I just had emergency laser surgery to correct a torn retina a month ago. (Layman's explanation: The vitreous gel between the cornea and retina had come free, floating around. This tugged on the edge of the retina. Bleeding caused a large floater, like looking through a jellyfish, or cobwebs.) By good fortune, a standard eye exam ended with a referral to a top retinal specialist. He did laser surgery on the spot, within 30 minutes. I was told that the surgery was quite successful because of my immediate reaction to the vision obscuration. (By the way, I didn't recognize the first symptom, which was a flashing in the outer corner of my eye. I was told that was when the retina was being tugged upon. If you see flashers, get an exam NOW. Time is of the essence.) This has nothing to do with the thread topic, but could be quite germane to a CPL's livelihood.

This specialist had been in pilot training previously, so appreciated my urging not to butcher my eyesight. During the followup, I asked his opinion on corrective laser surgery, which he does not offer. He is against it, due to the risk of complications. His stance is not to potentially harm an eye that is working. He also stated that the corrective surgeons will promote their services, not agreeing with him. It's their livelihood, afterall. As much as I dislike the glasses I've worn since 7 years old, I think I'll stay with them. At least I can fly. I'm not yet a CPL, but the FAA will allow my lousy vision corrected by lenses, which is 20/15 now.

[EN48]

It may be productive to investigate multifocal contact lenses. I have worn rigid gas permeable multifocal contacts for decades and now at almost age 70 I have corrected vision to 20/15 and have no need for supplemental eyeglasses for reading or other purposes. FAA has no problem with these for CPL/Class 2 med cert. Not sure how this would work for ATPL or airline requirements, and outside the U.S. My uncorrected vision is something like 20/200 and as a result have worn some form of correction since a child. Switched to contacts in 1967 and never looked back. Have been able to get a much better correction than with eyeglasses, and the lifestyle improvement is huge. Not all folks tolerate contacts well, but if you can, you can have most of the benefits of surgery with little of the downside. I do carry back up eyeglasses when I fly but in 46 years of flying, have never needed them (for flying or any other purpose).

Over the years, I have considered various forms of surgical vision correction, however my AME has consistently advised against this approach.