xl airways chaos

[cfz1]

anyone know anything more about this?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_headline=hol-brits-cannot-fly-home-&method=full&objectid=18328259&siteid=94762-name_page.html

26 December 2006
HOL BRITS CANNOT FLY HOME
By Gary Anderson
HUNDREDS of British tourists had to spend Christmas Day stranded in Newfoundland because of delays getting a replacement part to their stricken aircraft.
The 245 passengers were flying from Orlando to London when their plane was diverted with technical problems.
They had hoped to be home on Sunday with friends and family but instead ended up on Canada's east coast. Mum Claire Woodcock, 29 - who spent a twoweek holiday in Florida with her husband, two children and sister - fumed: "This is the worst thing at Christmas.

"We don't know what's happening and have no clothes, luggage or anything."

She said her family had planned to spend Christmas Day at home in North West London. She added: "This is my little sister's first Christmas away from her mum, so she's been quite upset."

All passengers were on a package holiday with Swansea-based Travel City Direct, part of the XL Leisure Group. XL Airways said: "We had to get a replacement aircraft part which has taken a long time to obtain. It's desperately unfortunate timing and affected everyone - passengers, cabin and flight crew."

The rescheduled flight was due to arrive in London this morning.

Voice of the Mirror: Page 6

[Whitehatter]

Murphys Law in action.

If something can break it will, and at the most inconvenient time too. Rustling up a replacement at this time of the year ain't gonna be helped with both Christmas and Hajj to complicate matters.

I'd think in-hours crewing would be the most difficult thing to organise, but that's never going to be as good a headline is it?

[GBALU53]

Passengers expect to much?

99.9 per cent of the time every one is happy enough with a slight delay, when there are big delays meaning a day or two these are one offs and takes time to sort out so if you have a young family dont do these long trips so close to xmas remember they are not the only ones in this world that have had a bad xmas.

[Rollingthunder]

For many years I ran our ailrine's AOG Centre - the parts side of things. We dealt with materials requirements where the normal resources had failed. We would also extend our services to other airlines, especially those who we knew would reciprocate when we needed assistance. Charter carriers were a bit further down the list as they could never be in a position to assist us. However, if we had sufficient quantities of a part and it would not impact our operations by loaning or selling to them we would assist and handle expedited shipping for them. This included chartering aircraft if the situation warranted it. This all cost a bunch of money of course.

We used to carry spares kits onboard our long-range aircraft comprising no- go items statistically known to be failure possibilities. This of course meant an investment of funds. As time went on we continued to develop our parts infrastructure and form alliances with other airlines for pool and non-pool parts support and spares kits diminished.

Haviing said all that, St.John's is a bit difficult to get to. Not a whole lot of scheduled flights into there. If they got home Boxing Day morning - they did pretty well.
If you choose a cheap charter these kind of things must be expected.

[A and C]

I feel very sorry for all these people who had christmas disrupted but as usual the reporter from the Mirror fails to tell us how he would have solved the problem any faster.

The big trouble with "christmas" is that some times is is a deadline that is imposable to meet safely.

[Whitehatter]

It isn't so much the availability of replacement aircraft or parts, as getting someone with the requisite number of rings on their sleeves to drive it home.

As everyone here would say, it's a shame people have had their holidays disrupted. However safety alway has to come first, which is why the flight presumably stopped short. The crewing issue is much more mundane and doesn't sell papers....:rolleyes:

[jetstream7]

No hysterics from the The Daily Mirror - seems to be a fairly 'straight' piece of reporting of what happened.
A question for cfz1 - where's the chaos you refer to in your thread title?

[glider12000]

Caused by a failure of one fuel pump on engine 2. Both were replaced, and it took some time to source both parts and have them installed.

[xyzzy]

Passengers expect to much?
99.9 per cent of the time every one is happy enough with a slight delay, when there are big delays meaning a day or two these are one offs and takes time to sort out so if you have a young family dont do these long trips so close to xmas remember they are not the only ones in this world that have had a bad xmas.

We were knocking this sort of topic around at home, with regard to the LHR situation this week. I fly quite a lot for work, my family rarely, but when we do fly together I try to deploy the ``keep calm'' aspects. If you fly a dozen times a year, most flights are uneventful, the odd one or two is better than that (an upgrade, pleasant company in the next seat, an enjoyable book to read) and the odd one or two is worse than that (a delay, someone obnoxious sat next to you). You shrug your shoulders over the bad ones because they balance out.

I got stuck for six hours in Frankfurt one Friday around Easter because of snow. Everyone was relaxed, because hey, stuff happens. One passenger was worrying that she was relying on the train to get her from BHX to the University, and the trains were going to be finished before we arrived, but someone who was driving that way offered her a lift. And anyway, a couple of weeks later I went to Tokyo, and got the exit row and a lovely smooth flight, so it balances out.

On the other hand, people who fly very occasionally don't get to do the balancing. They're probably cranked up by the whole experience, and have a lot riding on the flight working out. They'll have children, and relatives, and car hire, and no experience on how to make things work smoothly. I keep meaning to write a web page on ``how to travel stress-free'', which people like that will need...

[Nubboy]

Time to spare, go by air:ok:

[RAT 5]

Glider 12000:

You say the failure of 1 fuel pump caused a tech diversion. Is this really necessary? I do not know the a/c type, but in all the ones I have flown this would not be an immediate landing. In the case of ETOPS it might need a landing. If so, and fuel allows it, a non-ETOPS route could be established, and the flight continued.

It seems there is a lack of full facts about this.

[glider12000]

it was a 767-300. SFB - LGW.

It was safety first. Rather than be caught out later on they took the decision to divert.

My info comes from one of the girls on the flight, and that`s as much as I know. Sorry I can`t be any further help though.

[Maude Charlee]

Let me guess, TF-ATU. A flying trabant.

[glider12000]

G-VKNI

Not sure what that is in old terms, although i think ATU is VKNG and I was on that last week and was fine

[irishcc]

G-VKNI = TF-ATT
G-VKNH = TF-ATU
G-VKNG = ex Lauda Air

[RAT 5]

Whatever the reg' I still do not understand the idea of landing short because of 1 fuel pump failure. Back ups are there to be used for their purpose. There are still 2 fuel pumps connected to that engine, and still 2 others, via the cross feed. from the other side. At the time of the flight I expect they were feeding from the centre tank anyway. The engine was not about to run out of fuel pressure.

However, I am not doubting the captain's decision to divert. He was there on the spot. What I am asking is this; if it really was a simple engine main tank fuel pump failure, was it necessary to divert; or are there some unknown facts?

[robo283]

I have to agree with Rolling Thunder on this one; if you want to guarantee being at home on Christmas Day, don't rely on a long-haul flight on Christmas Eve!
The same article was in the Daily Mail, with the usual mix of 21st Century Family groups (mum + 'friend' + kids) and the kids were 'screaming for their Christmas presents' (must have been delightful for the hotel and airline staff). Not stereotyping (OK, I am stereotyping :ouch: ) but it makes you wonder how far the word 'compensation' was from their lips....
I am going to set up my own airline for this new market group. Chavair.com.
Crew will have tasteful Burberry uniforms.

[Nubboy]

A very good call.

get it on the ground, then you've plenty of time to sort it out.
I remember diverting to AMs for a frozen wing anti ice valve. It thawed out on final approach, but the option to continue at low level, through an active front full of ice just wasn't a good idea. Everyone's inconvenienced, it costs money, but EVERYONE is alive and well and untraumatised (if a little stressed).

If it's that important to be there, then, then go alittle earlier and give yourself, and your operator a little slack to sort things out if need be.;)

[Rainboe]

RAT 5- twice you have alluded (deluded?) to 'unknown facts'. If you suspect that there are 'unknown facts', could you explain what is the basis of your question? Otherwise, can you not accept that an ETOPs flight probably can't replan a non-ETOPs route in the air with anything like the same fuel reserve margin (if any at all), and if the Crew took the decision they did not want to fly across the Atlantic on 2 with degraded fuel reserves and possibly dodgy UK weather, and the possibility of not being able to reach any alternate at all should another pump or pumps fail during the crossing (I'm not familiar with the 767 fuel system)- leading to the possibility of ditching for relying on a fuel pump, then I really don't think it is for us to either question their decision or keep suggesting there may be other factors! So either explain your suspicion or please shutup!

cfz1- for a first post, I think you were unnecessarily overdramatic with the headline. It was not 'XL chaos' at all- it was merely a technical diversion for repairs, unfortunately delaying passengers. It is probably insulting to all the staff who would have done their best to cater and look after the passengers within their abilities. Breakdowns, diversions and repairs happen all the time in aviation, and in my experience all the staff, flying and ground personnel, do their best to handle as well as possible. Problems can occur on Dec 24 as easily as any other day. As was said here, if you want to be ensured home on Christmas Day, not a good idea to travel so close to Christmas, as has been discovered in the UK, Denver, St. Johns and various other aeroplanes broken down around the world. But 'chaos'? I doubt it....'disruption'?....yes.

[robo283]

Rainboe, don't be too hard on CFZ1: The threadline is possibly an ironic take on the media's 'shock, horror' approach to any aviation story (or any other story for that matter).

Unfortunately the true story 'Minor technical hitch causes flight crew to take sensible option; 245 passengers alive but slightly inconvenienced' probably wouldn't sell many papers.:hmm:

[Rainboe]

Robo- maybe you're right. But the headline does the damage, and it seems hard to attach the name of a company to a word like that. Much as BA seems to have taken personally complete blame for the recent severe fog and years of paralysis and dreadful under-investment in British Airport infrastructure (ie- you want more flow rate in foggy weather? Where are the runways that should have been built 20 years ago?)

[robo283]

Fair point, Rainboe, but BA has historically had a huge amount of clout on the UK scene, whereas XL and all the other 'independents' have largely been dictated to. BA through its predecessor companies BEA and BOAC managed to hamstring the aircraft manufacturing industry in this company by altering the specifications on basically sound aircraft e.g. Trident and VC10, so that they were unattractive to overseas buyers. At least BA has met its match in the weather ;)

[uggy]

Aircraft departed Sanford with with left aft fuel pump u/s. Subsequently the left forward fuel pump failed. Diverted into St Johns and landed with a fuel imbalance of 3500 kgs.
Fantastic ground handling considering it was Christmas Eve.
All crew handled the situation professionally.

[Rainboe]

So an absolutely valid and correct decision by the pilots to make a tech stop! Throw in the usual press shock horror "Mrs. Bloggins was unable to get her underwear changed for 24 hours and her little Jimmy couldn't have his Nintendo from her suitcase for a while" and you have the sad makings of a headline at Christmas!
Well done the crew, well done the passengers who stoically underwent the 'ordeal'- once again, as in President Blair's near 'escape from death in Miami on his way to bunk off yet another celeb pal', the press makes a disgraceful spectacle of itself.