EZY Spain- contract & CAP371 rostering

[geespot]

Hi everyone, heard that EZY are setting up MAD as a seperate company. T&C's will seperate and rostering according to CAP371.Does anyone have any idea what these terms are?Have any variations in rostering been mentioned?Seems that they want this to be different to the rest.

Decisions, decisions.....:confused:

[Banzai Eagle]

It would make sense not to use CAP371 and use the Spanish version!
Any UK Pilot wouldn't know what had hit him.....

[9 minutes to landing]

first 6 months - existing easyjet airline contract.

after 6 months - new spanish contract with different terms and conditions..... on offer letter "pilots would be rostered in line with CAP371."

Looks like BALPA is active on this one and more discussions with the company will possibly occur....I suggest you ring BALPA on this one to see the latest state of play.

[Doug the Head]

Looks like BALPA is active on this one and more discussions with the company will possibly occur.... BALPA active on this one?? :confused: Then why did they write "Regrettably easyJet did not consult the CC before sending out these transfer offer letters. We are therefore seeking an urgent meeting with the Company to discuss a number of serious concerns including..." in their last email?

I suggest anyone should JOIN BALPA instead of ringing them for info!

[outofsynch]

Unless they are already a member Doug!

Yes, further discussions will certainly occur, as the company has breached the recognition agreement by communicating something like this without discussing it first with the CC... Could even result in a collective grievance.

I dont think the company seriously think they will get away with anything but the current rostering agreement, for all bases, otherwise they will be left negotiatiing another agreement... a scope clause! Too messy!

[Doug the Head]

Well true, but if they already are members then they should know that BALPA has been completely left out of the whole discussion of setting up EZY Spain and subsequent Spanish employment contracts.

When reading though the various EZY threads here on PPRuNe, I can´t help but think that a lot of those 400+ pilots we are going to need over the next 12 months are not really aware of what they´re getting into and have a blind spot for the degradation in employment conditions.

They just see a shiny Airbus, a base in Spain, think that they are joining a real career airline (´where BALPA is on the case´) flying 900 hours/year and daydream about one day crossing the Atlantic in an orange A330. :ugh:

[ICING AOA]

There are more than 4000 spanish pilots looking for a job !! so easyJet won't have any problem to find people, even with a spanish contract :}

Bear in mind that Vueling and Clickair are expending like crazy (lots of new airbus in 2007) and hence it will not be that "easy" for an english company to be set up in Spain if they do not use the same spanish terms and conditions.

You want MAD, you sign this bloody spanish contract; you do not accept this spanish contract, then just stay at Luton or Stansted :ok:

[Doug the Head]

You want MAD, you sign this bloody spanish contract; you do not accept this spanish contract, then just stay at Luton or Stansted :ok:
Great! That´s the spirit! :=
Just bend over and get the same ´fantastic´ conditions like Vueling (FO €2500/month gross pay :yuk: ) in MAD instead of fighting to get the same Luton/Stansted conditions...

There are more than 4000 spanish pilots looking for a job !! so easyJet won't have any problem to find people, even with a spanish contract But will BALPA be able to stop this Spanish contract from happening? Let´s wait and see.
(By the way, 4000 pilots sounds like a lot but how many are 200 hour cadets, how many are type rated on the Airbus, how many speak reasonable enough English, how many will pass the selection...? :hmm: )

[DIRRIK]

(By the way, 4000 pilots sounds like a lot but how many are 200 hour cadets, how many are type rated on the Airbus, how many speak reasonable enough English, how many will pass the selection...? :hmm: )


good point doug the head

[sarah737]

You want MAD, you sign this bloody spanish contract; you do not accept this spanish contract, then just stay at Luton or Stansted :ok::D

And before you know the MAD guys fly MAD-STN-BFS-STN-MAD, one plane less in STN and you have the choice, redundant or transfer to MAD on ... a spanish contract!

[FlapsOne]

But will BALPA be able to stop this Spanish contract from happening?
That will be a test of the courage of all the pilots in EZY - unless the company see sense and change their ill-thought out plan!
it will not be that "easy" for an english company to be set up in Spain if they do not use the same spanish terms and conditions.
With better terms and conditions it will be easy to get crews.
These crews should be on exactly the same terms as UK crews as it is a UK company on a UK AOC. If there's a Spanish AOC inbound then maybe..................just maybe.........it'll be diffierent.

[sarah737]

There are more than 4000 spanish pilots looking for a job !! so easyJet won't have any problem to find people, even with a spanish contract :}

How much guys were you short last summer? A hundred? Strange that, as far as I know easy, not a single of those 4000 came to easy, although the MAD base was already a public secret at that time...

[ICING AOA]

There are now lots of Air Madrid pilots with a great experience on A330s, and all looking for a job on a kind of A319, based at Barrajas :ooh:

Anyway, I am sure that lots of easyPilots just don't care about the spanish contract and the possible different roster. What they want is going back home to Spain, at Madrid ! :D

[Doug the Head]

Anyway, I am sure that lots of easyPilots just don't care about the spanish contract and the possible different roster. What they want is going back home to Spain, at Madrid ! :D Which "easyPilots" are you talking about here? Are you talking about Spanish pilots now working for EZY based in the UK, France, Germany or Italy, or are you talking about the Air Madrid pilots who yet have to start working for EZY?

Nobody (except managment) wants the MAD based colleagues to be second class when compared to EZY pilots on a UK contract, so EZY pilots do care about the MAD contract.

Air Madrid pilots would be absolutely crazy if they would accept a Spanish contract and fly the same orange airplanes with different terms and conditions than EZY pilots with a UK contract.

[Kraut]

:D
And before you know the MAD guys fly MAD-STN-BFS-STN-MAD, one plane less in STN and you have the choice, redundant or transfer to MAD on ... a spanish contract!

Easy,easy SARAH,

before that happens, I believe a lot of water is running down the Rhine river! Management however, will like words like yours spread around?!


What they want is going back home to Spain, at Madrid ! :D

-We do not have a tremendous number of spanish pilots

-what I heared, not every spanish pilot would go to MAD with the new contract!

The problem arising will be, guys accepting the "spanish contract" and than calling for BALPA to solve their own induced problems! I keep the bet!

[geespot]

Does anyone know any LCC that rosters using CAP371? Fatigue issues have arisen using the fixed days off, imagine what the implications of 371 will be, Let alone the lifestyle issues!1 day off in 6, 2 consecutive days off in 14, i think not!:ugh:

[blanza]

i,m taken the interview next week, and interested in MAD...
let´s say wath they offer.

[RAT 5]

Flaps One:

"These crews should be on exactly the same terms as UK crews as it is a UK company on a UK AOC."

In all this discussion there is a spanner in the works; RYR. They too will have a MAD base. It will be interesting to see what T's & C's they come up with.

Regarding the above from Flaps One; RYR has many non-UK bases, and indeed some UK bases and they are all under the same AOC, flying EI a/c, but each on different contracts; well pay anyway. However, when it came to the crunch of labour law I believe a Belgium judge decided Be. law took precedance over Irish. RYR & ej seem to have abandoned the old unspken rule of 'leave each other alone'. LTN, STN, LPL, MAD, (bases) and many other destinations overlap and compete head to head. No doubt, like Dixons & Comet, they are eyeing each other everyday to keep equal or a no more than a whisker in front. I wonder who is the chicken & who is the egg in this game?

[sarah737]

i,m taken the interview next week, and interested in MAD...
let´s say wath they offer.

Good luck Blanza!
Is it Mad or Ltn? Do you know how much the bond is and for how long?

[cartmanfly]

There's a few issues in here.
EZY's new bases will predominantly be European from now on making the possibility of Sarah's W pattern's realistic if the management get their way. Divide and conquer may be on the agenda. It's no secret that the Rostering Dept would still love random rostering which is what they'll get in all new bases if we allow this to get through.
What is needed is for European based pilots to smell the coffee and all get into BALPA NOW! Despite the good tunes that come from Andy Harrison's office it is his junior managers that do the damage as we've all seen before.

[Kraut]

What is needed is for European based pilots to smell the coffee and all get into BALPA NOW! .

Come on! The European pilots joined BALPA already, when MS tried to bring in "European pay differences".

The game starting now, looks a little different. They bring in a new "spanish employer" for EZY pilots.

[orangetree]

Kraut I very much doubt that anywhere near enough Europeans joined BALPA. Nice work those that did though.

[FlapsOne]

Rat 5

Couldn't care less about RYR really.

EZ has formal union recognition so there are rules about them changing contract terms without consultation.

Balpa and the ECA have virtually finished an agreement which joins all the EU unions together in a different way to IFALPA, whereby a memeber of VC, for example, is also a FULL member of Balpa if he/she works for a UK company. The reverse is also true of course. All the EU unions seem to be in favour (even the SNPL!).

This will mean huge membership percentages within EZ - bring it on!

[ADFS]

Hello All,

I for one have just lost my job at Air Madrid.I try to explain to the bank why I
havent anymore income and they just scoff at me...I am in dire need of employment. I´m 52 years of age and just when I was programmed for my base training flight as 320 Captain ( after 2 years F/O 330 ETOP Cruise Captain ) the company grounds to a halt in perhaps the most scandalous case of mis-management in global aviation history.
Please, can anyone give me de tails of what the assessment session consists of ?
I am overlooking the finer details of everyday existence...we all know that when it comes down to income we are all forced to take the best we can get, so PLEASE, will anyone give me a knowledgable run down of what to expect ?

Thanks Guys, the truth is that we are all in this together; pilots trying to survive as time runs its course.

[blanza]

i´m sorry for you mi friend,

i have many friends in your situation, in fact the other day i took a few drinks with some of your colleges in irish¨ at barajas after the meeting you have ,
you´ll find lot of information in other forum. i´m going to take it in 15 days, i´ll tell you later, but i bought the aeasy pilot interview guide and looks usefull and a book name ACE the thecnical pilot interview, with helps with the questions you´ll find in the guide, very simple and easy to read, and good to remember all that staff in english, other people will tell you about terms and condition.
thanks to sarah737, about the bond, all i know its what i read in the web page,
its very disapointing all of this deal of the ezy spain, because i can not acccept any difference of wath it says in the web, and if other peope do, they´ll take adventage about base, Its also peculiar that MAD its not in the list of basis where they are recruiting...

[TE RANGI]

Fact is there's little difference in what a crew may or may not do, between CAP 371 and circ 16-B, its Spanish equivalent.
Most differences between the two would apply to long haul limitations, so for a crew doing a short-middle range rotation or double rotation it would be just about the same.
In any case, if the MAD base comes under the UK AOC, CAP 371 would apply no questions asked. Labour regulations are an entire different thing, but then again, very little difference would be felt in practical terms.
Or, maybe I'm missing something here?

[Bokkenrijder]

BTW, has anyone wondered whether the Spanish CAA will even allow easy to operate with CAP371?

I would not be surprised if they would say: "Spanish AOC, EC registered aircraft, therefore Spanish rules all the way," at some point.

It would be interesting to see whether the ´superior´ UK CAA with it´s ´superior CAP371´ would allow a similar deal where airlines fly with a UK AOC, but with a (for example) Swiss duty regulation. :hmm:

Is this just another nice promise and a way to lure people to MAD? :suspect:

[geespot]

As EZY starts to operate from MAD immeninetly, has anyone been offered a contract and told what the rostering schedule will be? please enlighten us.On the current EZY rostering of 5/3/5/4 one would get 147 days off in a year plus 28 days leave, from CAP371, with 10 days off p/m, that's 120 days plus 28 leave, big difference!! Lifestyle is a big issue here, on a variable roster with CAP371 you could not plan anything ahead as you can with ALL the rest of EZY:eek: Seems like more work for the same money, or am i reading this wrong?

What to do........

[sarah737]

Geespot, read the title of this thread again: EZY MAD = CAP 371, so forget about 5/3/5/4. It is random rostering with 9 or 10 days off a month. I think leave should be a bit more, 35ish days, according to spanish law, as you will be working for a spanish agency and NOT easyJ UK.

[Kraut]

: "Spanish AOC, EC registered aircraft,

Not necessarily to be done like that! There are other ways to operate with the required personal on a different contract!

[Coppi]

When I applied in August I had in mind the terms as advertised on the easyjet site and the 5354 roster.
Awaiting my contract now, I hear that if I am offered the MAD base the advertised terms will not apply and there is even the chance to be employed by an agency.
This is not exactly what I had in mind when I applied. If I refused the MAD job offer based on the different terms, would this result in loosing the easy job offer alltogether or would I be offered another base?
Any similar experiences with easy?

[Kraut]

[QUOTE=Coppi;.....Awaiting my contract now, I hear that if I am offered the MAD base the advertised terms will not apply and there is even the chance to be employed by an agency........[/QUOTE]

The only way to be sure what you got, is, what is written on your contract!
Than it´s time to take considerations. But I believe, they would offer you another base...I believe!

[blanza]

i think we are mixing things, onces its the cap 371 or the spanish version anex 16b, i dont know anything abaout cap 371. but i know quite well the anex 16b, and what its all about its maximum activity depending on your cheking time, mumber of legs, maximum a month, three month and a year, it is not a programation tool, at least in spain there is no company whit a roster system like 5453, just click air because they have copy most of the terms of ryr, not even iberia have something like this, (this is why i want to try ezy)then its compatible appllay 16b with a 54 53 system, there are two diferent things, anyway, my interview its on the 18, and off course i will ask for this specific subjet and i promise to tell in this forum what ever they tell me

[sarah737]

If I understood well, which I think I did:

You will be employed by Easy-España (an agency like Parc or Brookfield) but UK planes, UK aoc, Cap 371, only 9-10 days off a month withOUT any fixed pattern, salary paid in euro, subject to spanish tax and social security, no LOL, no private medical, no pension!

[Kraut]

I wonder, how PT will fill up MAD on time? I can not imagine any EZY pilot would give up his UK contract, just to be in MAD?

So this is the chance for all spanish newcomers, which have to grab a job. (which I can understand to a certain point!)

[blanza]

If I understood well, which I think I did:

You will be employed by Easy-España (an agency like Parc or Brookfield) but UK planes, UK aoc, Cap 371, only 9-10 days off a month withOUT any fixed pattern, salary paid in euro, subject to spanish tax and social security, no LOL, no private medical, no pension!
i don´t know i f you refer to me, but if it is
i repite: i won´t accept any diferent conditions that the one are shown in the
web page plus the 54 53, pattern and the the chance to came to mad in a short future, i can not accept any other thing because i´m allredy base in MAD with better cond, and a ramdom 10 days off. and if this different conditions are real, i can´t not accept either becouse other people will have a priority to came to mad,
i won´t write for a while becouse i need to prepare the assesment, and reading this forum its making me think in giving up, the truth its that is going to be hard for me, i broke my collar bone two months ago and i havent flown since that, best regards to all, i´ll give you mor information on the 20th in the event i make the grade

[blanza]

hi all
i allready took my interview, i haven´t been contact since that, but i have a good feeling about that, does anyone know anything new concerning mad?
best regards

[Kraut]

Nothing new for MAD for the time being. Personally I do not believe there will be a very quick change in T&C, if they get the pilot numbers they need. My opinion.

[ICING AOA]

hi all
i allready took my interview, i haven´t been contact since that, but i have a good feeling about that, does anyone know anything new concerning mad?
best regards

Hola Blanza !

so ? let us know !! easyJet or Iberia ?:O

[geespot]

Madrid T&C's on the EZY website, nothing about rostering.:cool:

[ICING AOA]

you are right, it is on the website now ! but nothing about TRSS and cadets :confused:

Anyway, when we convert to the same currency, an F/O based at MAD will make much less money than in the other bases :ouch:

salary in euros, not in pounds :ugh:

No information about the roster :\

[Bad Robot]

The way I calculate it is that the Basic is a lot higher in euros but not sure if the "Flight Pay" equates to Sector Pay or if that's yer lot for the day in question? again in euros.

BR.

[ICING AOA]

The way I calculate it is that the Basic is a lot higher in euros but not sure if the "Flight Pay" equates to Sector Pay or if that's yer lot for the day in question? again in euros.

well, my calculator keeps on telling me that a direct entry FO will earn 5000 pounds less at MAD (in a year ) than in the other bases under UK contract :hmm: .


Moreover, it seems that it is not possible to get this base for TRSS and cadets guys :bored:

[ICING AOA]

easyJet website says:


TRSS (Type Rating Sponsorship Scheme) - UK contracts only


:confused:

[blanza]

hi collegues,
dear icing, dont know jet whwt to do, firstable, i havent been contact since my assesment, i dont know if i make the grade, just think that no news good news, my boddys from air madrid that took the interview with me were contact 3 days later and they dident succeed, this is why i think we have a differnt result,
also now its confirm as many of you allready say in this forum that there are different t and c for MAD, and there is lot of differnces,
they have probably study the market in my beatiffull country and have found that they will be able to fill it up with this conditions, i think that still are better cond that vueling or clik, and still some air madrid pilots desesperated,
what it make sad it,s the situation of the spanish market, more than 3000 unexpierence pilots that would sign anything, and still many companys that dont even have an agrrement, just a salary scale an the chapter 16 b for rostering, 8 days random, our companys are still far away of the average conditions of the brittish even the lo,co, for example, the one company in spain with a pension scheme is iberia. not even air europa have one, being now one of the best companys for working here,
so i dont know, i feel lucky anyway, i have a good position, if i get contact, make my numbers, and decide, its not only a money deal, there its also some professional matters,
one favor my friend , can you explain me the bond system, if you want, you can do it privete, not to bore our tertulians, we are not familiar with this systen at this latitud

[blanza]

decision taken but not by me
few months ago, after the anouncment by ezy to stablish a base in MAD, i start looking for info regarding life style, rostering... this was how i found pprune, i ask for some opinion in different forum and i decide to apply, i wan´t to thank to all that gave me advice, or info about the assesment, i was quite illusionated of being a part of something new from the beggining, but this morning, one month after my assesment i´ve called the flight recruitment, and told me that it was unsucesfull, pretty painfull, my proffesional pride it´s a litttle harm, i´dont think i can reapply in six months because i dont think i´m going to do any better then, i did my best, but looks like was not enaught, i allready have requested a type conversion to A320 in my company and at least i´ll have new destination, and new proffesional dares, thanks again to all that replay my post, and best wisshes

[Kraut]

BLANZA

lot of guys did not make it. Even when in the company, the jump to the left seat is not that easy.
But EZY says itself, it is not always easy with EZY.
You don´t know, what it was good for! Take the positive out of the negative!

All the best! :ok:

[blanza]

thanks kraut
all of you have been very nice,

[Coppi]

Blanza,

Don't be discouraged, you still work for one of the top EU airlines, good luck all the best.

Coppi

[TooFast]

Helllo EZY fans...

I wonder if someone had access to the real Spanish contract

Woul be great to discuss every issue, and also to compare with the UK contract..

We are hearing...

[Kraut]

@TooFast

have a look into the thread you started yourself! (EASYJET Madrid).
There was some discussion about the contracts.

[superconstellation]

Hi everybody,Please I would like to know if there has been any update-agreemen on the negotiations between balpa and EZY regarding the MAD contract. I´m going to join EZY in few months and would be perfect to have some updates.
Thank you very much indeed.

[Itaqhua]

Do not sign any Spanish local easyJet contract. Balpa is trying to put things right. easy sent out local contracts without Balpa knowing it...

[superconstellation]

I wont sign the spanish contract, I prefer to stay in any other base with the UK contract than coming back home with a ****** contract. I don´t know what will the result be and how long will it take.....let´s wait and see if balpa has real "power" to negotiate it.

[Siggur]

Well, as of this week, Balpa has lifted it's objection to sign the Madrid contract. :eek: :eek:
Why Ok now and not last month???
As far as Im concerned this is possibly the biggest threat to easyjet T&Cs I have seen during my time with the company (also acknowledged in Balpa's penultimate newsletter)!
Balpa power.......:ouch:

[orangetree]

the way i read it, BALPA have lifted their objection to internal transfers as the contract for existing pilots wishing to transfer will basically stay as is. I'm not so sure they have lifted objection to the Spanish contract for dep's.

[Siggur]

Sure, Orangetree, I agree.
What's worse though Is that we don't really know the answer to your question.
Also, why have they lifted the objection for internal transfers?
The last official communication from the CC, almost a week ago, was only speaking in general terms, and since then, no news.
What happens to the the guys that transfer when easyUK gets better conditions?
Surely we are bound to get better pensions, 5454, and no more reserve-periods soon?:) And more pay!
Are these improvments also going to apply to Madrid? I think not! I wonder hove many guys and gals on easyUK contracts are really considering going to Madrid on these terms :bored:

[Chinos]

Hi all,

A lot of oinions and theory seems to be discussed here, but I am seeing very little on the side of facts.

I would love to hear from any D.E. PIC at EASY in MAD, how is the

1) pay,
2) the roster
3) and the days off.

Is there a chance to become a TRI/TRE?
Is there a way to commute withing Europe?

Many thanks for reply here on as PM.
Good luck to you all and happy landings!
Chinos

[fiftypercentn1]

hi guys, have they already provided u wiv the new spanish contract?