Helicopter specific advice on ANR Headsets?

[PaulSA]

Howzit everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has any advice on ANR headsets, which ones are any good - with coiled cables/NATO single plugs?

Seems to me Bose X and David Clark X11 might be a good bet, but (wow) bose seem expensive, and i'm not sure the new DC's come with helicopter plugs etc?


Any Thoughts? Cant find any really good reviews out there....

[unstable load]

Paul,
DC have a line of helicopter specific headsets and if my memmory serves me they also offer the different plugs. If not, that is a simple swap to do.

Lekker kersfees!

[Outwest]

I have a Bose. It has over 1000 hrs of use now and I am still very happy with it, BUT (there is always a but) it is in no way as rugged as a DC. A year ago it had to go back to Bose for repair ( a squeal in one ear cup) and now it has a bad connection somewhere in the cord.
I will say, Bose was amazing on the service the first time around, all completly free of charge. Will see how it goes this time.
The one thing you need to know is that the Bose has 0, that is zero, passive noise reduction. If the batterys go dead, you are left with your head in the downwash. The DC's are basically a regular DC with active reduction added, so if the batterys go dead, not much changes. Actually a freind of mine invested all that money in a DC ANR and never turns it on. He says there is no reason to. The Bose is the most comfortable and light headset I have ever worn. Very ergonomic. If you are in a job that is mostly white shirt flying, the Bose is the way to go. If you are a flight suit guy that is wobbling his own fuel, then the DC will take the heat.

[B Sousa]

Outwest said it in the first line. Ditto I like the Bose but they are not as rugged. I also have a set of DC H10-56HXL?? right from the factory in da box if your looking for some.
Its Bose for the tours and Gentex Helmet for out in the bush. DC in the bush if your not wearing a skid lid.

[turbinefan]

PaulSA

I was in a similar situation to you earlier in the year, being unable to make my mind up between Bose and David Clarke. Fortunately I was in the States at the time, where most headsets are significantly cheaper than they are in South Africa (the exception being the Bose which were only marginally cheaper). I wasn't able to reliably compare headsets whilst there so in the end I bought both a Bose X and the David Clark H10-13HX set on the grounds that I could sell whichever one I decided not to keep when I got back. I still haven't done that though (despite the amount of flak I receive for having two headsets! :)

I find myself choosing the Bose over the DCs when I fly. They are lighter, with less clamping force and are consequently more comfortable than the DCs. I also find that voices tend to be clearer using the Bose, including my own (which may indicate a better mic but it could just be the headphones). That said, I still find they occasionally make a popping/clicking sound every now and then which I think might be related to a change in the airflow over the exterior of the earcups around the "TriPort headset openings".

The DCs are a solid piece of kit and I am not nearly as circumspect handling them as I am with the Bose, regardless of their difference in price. I suppose I worry that the Bose might break (and treat them accordingly) while the DCs will always work - probably why I haven't got around to selling them yet, they're my backup! :) In adding to what Outwest and others have said: If you want the best, get the Bose, if you want them to last forever, get the David Clark.

The DC X11s had just been released when I was in the States and weren't available with a helicopter plug. I believe this is still the case, although I think they'll release one sometime next year. Very neat headset with lots of features, it looks like DC's response to the Bose with far less passive reduction and a lot more active reduction. I see from your profile that you fly fixed wing too: you might consider buying them along with a converter for helicopters. I actually ended up doing the reverse - buying helicopter headsets, and a fixed wing converter. It keeps the helicopter cabin a little bit neater at the expense of the stereo capability of the headsets (I don't actually fly fixed wing but have a friend whom I fly with who does).

Well, I have rambled on for quite a bit now, hoped I've helped. If not, you're welcome to come compare them yourself if you want. I fly out of FAGC - send me a PM if you're interested.

Cheers
Turbinefan

[T4 Risen]

I also have used the Bose for about 3 1/2 years on the North Sea(Fairley demanding environment). I feel it is by far the most comfortable having started on peltor and tried DC as well. the ANR bit is superb but i agree that if the bat fails then it goes back to the old Peltor standard.

I understand although i have not tried it that Bose along with good ear plugs is the ideal solution but i havent tried that.

T4

[Gomer Pylot]

The ANR models are ok, I guess, but they don't work as well at high frequencies, and most not very well at all if the active electronics fail. If you wear earplugs underneath you'll get more protection, but that defeats the purpose, doesn't it? My solution is to just wear the earplugs. I have an in-the-ear headset, using standard foam earplugs, resulting in overall higher noise reduction than any ANR headset, and vastly greater comfort. No problem with earseals, sunglasses, cap buttons, or anything else. Cheaper, more comfortable, works better - I won't change.

[perfrej]

I have flown with a few generations of Bose, a DC and a Peltor. The ANR of the Bose sets are far superior to the others, in fact they don't even belong in the same segment. After a long ferry with the Bose sets the head is just clear and fresh. I beleive it has to do with the quality of the audio parts and the filter curve for the ANR - it's just better. I would like to take a Bose set apart and glue it into my Alpha helmet ;)

As for the mechanical part... Well, Bose is not as sturdy as the others...

[fu 24 950]

Hi Perfrej, agree that Bose is the best head set.I have is the past retro fitted ANR into a gentex SPH5 and the results were good. The biggest differents was turning the radio volume down from 80% back to 40% and still hear it and this is in a Lama. I think I have a bit of hearing damage due to exposure to aviation. I can turn the radio on (ADF) to a normal level and when I turn the ANR off I can not hear it at all. About to retro fit ANR into a new Alpha Eagle so will keep you informed.Back in a 500 at the moment and the Alpha was not good, so back to the SPH 5 with ANR so this is the reasons for the up grade

[Gordy]

Let me add my 02cents. Agree with all the above, I have a DC that had about 6,000 hours on it when I dropped it and the band snapped. The warranty had expired but I sent it back to DC along with credit card details requesting a fast turnaround. They sent me a BRAND new one, in the box--NO CHARGE. That is what I call customer service. I personally will use nothing else.

[Foggy Bottom]

I have found that the Oregan Aero Hush kit works just as well as any ANR and it is much less expensive. You dont need batteries either!!

If your flying a B212 or any other 2 bladed medium or heavy, the blade slap interfers with the seal and you lose a lot of the noise cancelling capability regardless of which ANR system you purchase. A good passive systme is best for my dollar.

At least you are working on a long term solution to avoid hearing loss...good luck with whichever system you choose.

[MaxNg]

Hello all

Since the introduction of the European HSE Noise in the workplace regulations effective 6th April 2006 Scotia Helicopters (under the guidance of BALPA/ Scotia Company council Reps) have been conducting noise trials to establish suitable PPE (personal Protective Equipment) ie Headsets.

We are currently testing the AS332 L/L2, S92, S76A/A+/C+, AW139, and AS365 and although the tests are not yet complete, one of the least protective of all those tested (in so far as protecting against High tone deafness) is the Bose ANR, although they offer great comfort and good base tone attenuation it would appear that they are well out proformed when it comes to hearing protection in those types tested to date. There is some work to do yet as these tests are geared towards the best possible solution.

It is a very frightening fact that when you loose your hearing you will never ever recover it and although you may think that you are protected, simply feeling less fatigued after a flight is no measure of a headsets protection from high tone deafness, Our company is committed to finding the best protection possible and with BALPA's expertease and resouces we hope to have this solution on the table early in the new year.

Answer Number 187 to the question "What as BALPA ever done for Me":ok:

[jonnyloove]

MaxNg just wondering how did the Dave Clarkes Score so farr and what model off D.C ????

J

[Gaseous]

I pulled the guts out of my Pilot ANRs and fixed them into my Alpha. Excellent result but not a quiet as Sennheiser ANRs which are even better.
The ear cups in my Alpha are quite shallow and I couldn't get the Sennheisers in.
I couldn't put bigger cups in the Alpha and get it on my fat head.

edit just to add that the rechargable battery of the Pilot headset fits inside the Alpha cup.:ok:

[Brilliant Stuff]

Hello all
Since the introduction of the European HSE Noise in the workplace regulations effective 6th April 2006 Scotia Helicopters (under the guidance of BALPA/ Scotia Company council Reps) have been conducting noise trials to establish suitable PPE (personal Protective Equipment) ie Headsets.
We are currently testing the AS332 L/L2, S92, S76A/A+/C+, AW139, and AS365 and although the tests are not yet complete, one of the least protective of all those tested (in so far as protecting against High tone deafness) is the Bose ANR, although they offer great comfort and good base tone attenuation it would appear that they are well out proformed when it comes to hearing protection in those types tested to date. There is some work to do yet as these tests are geared towards the best possible solution.
It is a very frightening fact that when you loose your hearing you will never ever recover it and although you may think that you are protected, simply feeling less fatigued after a flight is no measure of a headsets protection from high tone deafness, Our company is committed to finding the best protection possible and with BALPA's expertease and resouces we hope to have this solution on the table early in the new year.
Answer Number 187 to the question "What as BALPA ever done for Me":ok:

About time too!!!!!!!!!!!

We were told 2-3 years ago we would need new headsets due to new laws and thanks to H&S. I asked the question several times of the company and BALPA all I got as an answer was to expensive and Aberdeen doesn't want it. So we had to stick to our cheap and simple bog standard Peltors. Hence I believe now I have some hearing loss.:ugh: :ugh:

Am I glad to wear an Alpha Eagle now:ok:

[Droopystop]

I just hung up my Alpha and back on peltors (not through choice) and I stunned how much better the peltors were.

Gomer Pilot, I like the sound of the in ear foam plug type headset (if nothing else for the comfort) what make and model would you recommend.

[Gomer Pylot]

Gomer Pilot, I like the sound of the in ear foam plug type headset (if nothing else for the comfort) what make and model would you recommend.I think the Clarity Aloft is a better quality, both overall and especially for the earplugs. It also has an input for cell phone (if you have an adapter) or mp3/other player. The earplugs they offer are good, but expensive. I remove the foam from a used one, keep the hard plastic holder, and insert that into a Howard Leight foam plug, and get excellent noise reduction and good communications quality. The Auricomm is about $100 cheaper, but it comes with crappy earplugs, and no inner part to reuse, so if I use that one I use some .133" plastic tubing from the company parts bin. It fits, it works, and it's cheap. Both are very comfortable and very quiet. It takes a few seconds longer to don them than a standard headset, but then who's in that big a hurry? It takes about the same amount of time as a helmet, I think.

One note - all these come with fixed-wing double plugs, not helicopter plugs. You need an adapter, or if you're handy with a soldering iron, you can replace the dual plugs with a U174 plug.

[500e]

Have been using Pilot PA17-79DNC XL for two years find them good, + points rechargeable battery's, plug in leads, so whatever plug is just a click away,fair dynamic N\C if you forget to charge, can have Tel. socket .
Tried DCs to tight, have not tried BOSE but they must be taking the proverbial with the price, try and borrow a set of PA17

[Special 25]

I know that Bristow have also been conducting trials of noise levels generally over the past 7 or 8 months. Quite a few results now and it would be nice to assume that they are co-ordinating their results with H&S at Scotia.

I know the rumour mill is much the same as quoted above - Bose doing a fine job in keeping the noise levels down and reducing fatigue, but they are letting in the damaging high frequency noises that you aren't even aware of.

DC's are too heavy. What I want is a ANR Peltor - Is there one in the pipeline ? Or do we go with the Sennheiser which looks like pretty much the same headset - Any advice on that one ?

[B47]

With respect to all previous advice - it's out of date if you haven't tried the new DC X11s. I've just installed a pair in an Astro (with twin plug to US adapter) and they are the most comfortable, lightest, best ANR set I've ever used. They have nothing in common with previous DC ANR sets (I've had some) - passive performance is good, the ANR is excellent and they fold up very small. The different right/left ear gel seals (with furry covering!) are stunningly comfortable. Cheaper than the Bose, I think nothing comes close.

[fuel2noise]

I fly the S61 and have a company supplied Peltor which is pretty good 'passively'. Recently I installed an ANR kit (manufactured by Headsets Inc and supplied by Adams Aviation at Biggin Hill) which has been brilliant. The ANR takes away, seemingly, most of the MRGB and associated rumble and provides a much more pleasant/relaxing noise environment to fly in. The real win is that once you are sitting in such a quiet noise environment you can turn down the intercom and radio volumes a lot....this has the benefit of turning down the external noise that is being picked up by the microphones of your other crew members - fantastic! I power the ANR on re-chargable batteries so it is pretty cheap to run. I paid about £120 to Adams for the kit (fits Peltor 7000 series not 8000 and they have other kits for David Clark, etc.) and I don't think you can get better ANR for the price. I have tried the Bose....pretty good if a bit flimsy....I just think £800 for a Bose is mad since my Peltor rig gives better ANR/passive protection.

[Spheriflex]

Since almost a year, i'm using a sennheiser HMEC in the S76, i'm very pleased with it. The sound is briljant, the passive damping better then peltor, then you get the active reduction on top. The weight is comparable with the peltor. I've bought a pair of gel-seals, that finishes it. They (Sennheiser) had a trial made for a High-low impedance headset. I've asked for it, the send it over from the factory in Germany(through the dealer), it worked in the Dauphin (low), but it did not in the 76, The mike gain could not be opened far enough. So i bought one for the 76. Then, 1,5 month ago I also bought a HMDC (low impedance) for the EC155. It also works perfect!
http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm.nsf/root/products_aviation

http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/icm.nsf/root/products_aviation_helicopter_headsets

[CareBear]

Go with the Bose - you won't be disappointed !! Just my opinion but I have used one for 7 months in a very noisy 365 with a crap i/c system and the difference is amazing. Having said that you will have to look after it as the comments re ruggedness are valid.

[jonnyloove]

Hi all does anyone out there have an opinion on these enc headsets? are they any good for flying diffrent machines?? and whats the general view about them? I want a headset i can use in a R22 upto a S-61N or do i need to get two diffrent headset?

Kick The Tyres Light The Fires.........:cool:

[PaulSA]

WOW ...Thanks guys!!!:D

As always excellent advice, much appreciated! Hope everyone had a good holly!

-Paul

[Spheriflex]

But you can also check this:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175156&pp=20&highlight=headset

[WHK4]

Don't turbine helicopters make much more high-frequency noise in the cockpit than piston helicopters?

And so wouldn't any risk of hearing damage with ANR headsets be greater in turbines than piston heli's?

WHK4

[Fay Slag]

Hii all,

I have to agree with Gomer Pylot on this one. The Clarity aloft headset is excellent. Whilst working in the the States instructing I used my old passive D.C.s which where fine but got tight and sweaty after hours of flying in the Florida sunshine. After that I tried the Telex Stratus 50d which were a lot quieter but they really clamped my head and I started to get headaches (maybe I just have a fat head). After that I bought the Clarity Aloft which, as Gomer mentioned only have fixed wing plugs (so I fitted a heli one) but they seemed as quiet as the Telex which claimed to have 50dB attenuation and were really comfortable. The Clarity Aloft claim to have a passive noise reduction rating of around 39-40dB whch as I remember is as much as a DC with ANR (27dB plus about 13dB ANR) and they really are comfortable and quiet. The only problem is that people see you walking on the ramp and think you've bought an airliner headset by mistake or that you've borrowed it from Britney Spears and that it must be crap because its so insignificant looking.

After getting back to the UK I started flying the AS332 offshore and was issued with a Peltor. After training and fliyng on line for three weeks I was beginning to get tinitus in the evenings after work. I tried using the Clarity aloft but the engineers moaned at me saying it wasn't certified for public transport. I used it secretly for about 10 flights and the tinitus disappeared. A colleague told me a about a kit made by CEP in the US which has the same earpieces as the Clarity aloft but is fitted to any headset and is worn underneath the earcups.

At the moment I use the Peltor with the CEP kit underneath and I have no tinitus and the engineers are happy.

I agree with some other posters that although some ANR headsets feel nice and seem to be quiet, they may be letting in damaging freqeuncies that we don't hear. I think the answer is some form of really good passive reduction which physically doesn't allow frequencies to enter your ear canal.

Will be interested to see the results from the H & S people offshore...

BTW for those that are intersted the site for CEP is www.cep-usa.com

Happy New Year,

Fay

[Gomer Pylot]

Headsets have to be approved over there? Gag me with a spoon, as someone once said. :yuk: That's going way, way too far. Makes me glad to be a poor colonial boy. :}

[wheatbix]

I've had the bose for a while now and its great.

Some people say they are fragile and flimsy, but like all electronic equipment if you just take care of it and don't go dropping it or anything like that it'll work fine :)

[Fay Slag]

Gomer,

Well actually i'm not sure if they do have to be approved or its a company thing, but most likely its just the engineer who didn't like the look of the headset because its different to what everyone else wears.

BTW CEP do the Comply ear tips cheaper than most other places i've seen at around $16 a pack.

Fay

[Gomer Pylot]

$16/pack is still pretty expensive. I just peel the foam off a used set, and put the hard part into foam plugs. Better noise reduction, and free. I still have almost the entire pack that came with my headset sitting on the shelf. IIRC I've only used one set, recycling the inner part many times.

[regency]

Howzit everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has any advice on ANR headsets, which ones are any good - with coiled cables/NATO single plugs?

Seems to me Bose X and David Clark X11 might be a good bet, but (wow) bose seem expensive, and i'm not sure the new DC's come with helicopter plugs etc?


Any Thoughts? Cant find any really good reviews out there....

Everything depends on what aircraft you fly. The Bose is much much better than David Clarck's however, ANR is like GPS they all work about the same on the inside. Bose will not provide their range because they know it is exactly the same as everyone else.

What is important is what aircraft your flying. Bose dose not provide an attenuation switch like DC this will cost you an additional 185 US dollars if you fly two different type aircraft one high and one low impedance. Now, if your flying an older Bell ie, 412 or 212 or 205 series forget about it! No ANR is going to work well and you will eat up batteries. The reason is the constant pressure change when you fly with the window open. A 212 is worse than the 412 but any helicopter that you fly with the window open the ANR is almost worthless and actually causes noise because it is fighting the pressure changing very time one of those blades passes by. So, if you flying with a window open save your money.

Now, if you flying an SK76 or AW139 or a jet or anything with the windows closed then go for the Bose, it is so comfortable and so light it is so worth the 1,000 bucks you have to spend. The Bose will make the voices so much more clear so if you were a bad boy and didn't ware plugs when you had the chance and now have hearing loss the Bose is your best chance.

I hope this info helps. It's all about the aircraft your flying.

[Mama Mangrove]

I found the Bose very good when I flew. I used a set of custom made earplugs from a UK company inside so that if the battery ever went flat I'd still have the passive protection. There's an article recently been posted on a CHC site which you may find interesting:

The Right Headset in Your Fixed-Wing Aircraft
CW4 Paul Miller, CW4 David Littner, CW4 David Keshel, CW4 Elza Brokaw, and CW3 John J. Lill WOSC 05-03

Editor’s note: The active noise cancellation and active noise reduction (ANC/ANR) headsets are only appropriate for “fixed-wing” aircraft. This technology cannot be used in rotary-wing aircraft because the equipment defeats the lateral impact protection of the helmet.

As a crewmember, precise communication is imperative for crew resource management and mission success. According to studies done by Frederick V. Malmstrom, Ph.D., active noise reduction headsets significantly reduce pilot’s physical and mental fatigue, as well as loss of proficiency during flight.
In years past, there could have been a misconception that David Clark headsets were the only ones the Army allowed. This was because units were making unauthorized modifications to aircraft electrical systems to power other headset systems. The U.S. Army Aviation and Missile Command (AMCOM) fixed-wing program management office (PMO) determined that battery-powered aviation ANR headsets are authorized as long as no modifications are made to the aircraft. Many units have locally procured such headsets and have had great success with off-the-shelf ANR products.
The principle of the ANR headset is to cancel unwanted low-frequency noise. Unwanted noises are those sounds that interfere with the pilot’s reception and understanding of crewmember and air traffic control communications. Passive attenuation of high-frequency noise is accomplished mainly through the ear cup, noise-absorbing padding, and secure fitting ear seal design. By placing a miniature microphone inside the ear cup, noise entering from the flight deck through the ear cup is sensed and analyzed by an electronic circuit. The electronic signal is inverted, amplified, and transmitted through the earphone canceling out the noise, whether you are actively talking or just listening to the radio or another crewmember. Most of the electronic noise-canceling technology headsets are failsafe in that they provide individual circuits for both the ANR portion and the radio/intercom portion of the headset. If the headset power source (battery pack) or ANR electronics fail, the headset will continue to function for communications.
In accordance with testing performed at the U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory, Fort Rucker, AL, by Dr. A.J. M. Houtsma, Ph.D., both the Bose AHX 32-01 and David Clark (DC) P/N 40862-01 perform very well at reducing exposure to hazardous noise levels. Testing was performed at a flat 108 dB(A) for frequencies starting at 63 Hz extending to 4,000 Hz.
The two headsets tested took very different approaches to reducing noise attenuation with both passive and active technologies. The DC P/N 40862-01 performed very well with passive attenuation at all frequency levels, mostly attributed to the heavy construction of the plastic shell, noise-reducing materials within that shell, and the gel-type ear cups that conform very well to the contours of the skull around the ears. With the ANR off, the DC headset reduced the sound level below the Army’s 85-decibel threshold for hazardous noise, and above 300 Hz, reducing it below the OSHA standard of 80 decibels. After turning the ANR on, this headset performed very well at reducing the low frequencies well below the 80-decibel level and maintained the higher frequencies well below 80 decibels. The effect of ANR is very noticeable.
The Bose model AHX-32-01 did not provide low frequency passive noise attenuation below 200 Hz, and reduced the noise level below the Army 85-decibel threshold at approximately 300 Hz. In the higher frequencies, the Bose provided very effective passive noise attenuation. After turning the ANR on, the Bose reduced noise attenuation below the 80-decibel OSHA standard across the frequency spectrum tested.
Marketing by both companies highlights findings in this unsolicited study of two commonly used ANR headsets. The DC headset is very good at passive noise attenuation in low frequencies, such as for propeller-driven airplanes, and does a good job in the high frequencies. The DC headset provides noticeable ANR especially good in the above applications. The Bose headset is more lightweight and may be more appropriate for long mission profiles based on interviews with pilots who have used both products. The ANR headset is better suited for use in jet aircraft where there is considerable noise energy above 1,000 Hz in comparison with propeller aircraft. Pilots have commented that the Bose audio clarity is excellent. No matter the make or model of headset, many studies have discovered significant reduction in performance when an eyewear frame breaks the seal of the ear cup. Caution must be taken to minimize the eyewear structure penetrating the seal. Using wire-style frames may help preclude this problem.
Individual units will have to decide which headset is appropriate to meet their needs. Many products are available through FEDLOG and commercial venders with government sales representatives are ready to assist your needs. The David Clark model is approximately $300 less than the Bose, both having a 5-year warranty. For more information, log on to their Web sites: http://www.bose.com/ and http://www.davidclark.com/.

--This article was written by CW4 Miller, CW4 Littner, CW4 Keshel (team leader), CW4 Brokaw, and CW3 Lill as a class project while attending the Warrant Officer Staff Course 05-03 at Fort Rucker, AL.

[Gomer Pylot]

The lack of a coiled cable isn't really a problem for me. You do need to use some care in where you put it so it doesn't get tangled, but I haven't had a real problem. I'm in and out of an S76 all the time, and I have added a clip to the cable to clip it to my survival vest while walking around outside, so it doesn't dangle and drag the ground and my hands are free for loading baggage, etc. It's easy enough to do, and may not be necessary for everyone. You need an adapter, which is sold lots of places - Sporty's, Marv Golden, etc, for connecting the two GA plugs to a helicopter plug.

[Fay Slag]

Hi,

With the question about the Clarity Aloft headset.... I found the lead quite long but you can coil it up quite easily or get it shortened by someone like Headset services and also have a heli plug fitted to save the bulk of an adaptor. It comes with a couple of plastic crocodile clips for your shirt to stop the cable tugging the back of the headset down or you can use them to tidy the cable where necessary. I really can recommend these headsets so if you get one let us know how you found it in the R22 (it'll definately be quiet enough in that machine).

Fay