Anglesey or Bust?

[aim9L]

I’m coming to the end of my 1st tour and it’s looking unlikely I’ll get a chance to fly the wonderjet this time round. The options as far as I can see are Valley or Linton. Obviously the flying at Linton won’t be as much fun, and there’ll be the odd old codger around. I’ve also heard that life on pleasure-island is far from ideal at the moment, in particular the trimming side of the airfield.

What’s going on?

Is it (he) really that bad?

What’s the story at FJTW?

[Ali Barber]

Not been there for a very long time, but it still brings back bad memories. Caused me to fail EO training on the North Welsh!:=

But, given that choice, I'd have to go with "bust"!

[L J R]

The Mess at Linton is more 'welcoming'.

Linton is near York (depends on your opinion if this is a good thing)

...but the F**ing Tucano os a bugg*r to trim.

[Lafyar Cokov]

...................it had a trim?????

[A2QFI]

If a Tucano had a 'trim' it would presumably be a Full Brazilian one?

[Monty77]

Well you've done the fast pointy bit. An old codger once told me that it doesn't really matter what you are flying as long as you are enjoying the life that goes with it. Given the choice between F18 in a tundra-bound village inside the Arctic Circle and C130 in California, I know where I'd rather be. Admittedly, a somewhat starker example than Valley/York, but you get my drift.

[pshakey]

M77,
Yep, you're right......any self respecting fighter pilot would rather fly the Hornet in the Tundra ridden Arctic Circle (or anywhere else!) than Fat Albert in Ca. :ok:

[will fly for food 06]

"The island of dreams" Well thats what the brochure said.

[Ali Barber]

Nightmares are dreams as well. Really hated the place. Loved the flying, it was just the location after you landed that got me down!

Forgot to add:

Happiness is Anglesey in the rear view mirror!

[15thManofTain]

Avoid the island at all cost. Offer to PVR.

[tutordriver21]

Off thread a little I know, but I have a question. Can you still become a "Creamie" instructor at 19Sqn? Is it a good thing? Were they respected by the students as much as real instructors?

Thanks

Tutordriver

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Tutor: No you can't. "Creaming and Streaming" as it is called, takes place after studes have finished 208, and decides whether they carry on to 19 as studes, go to NFTC as studes or go to 208 or linton as creamies. Post-19/NFTC Role disposal decides which OCU they are going to, but there are no creamies

[tutordriver21]

Thanks PBA. But i'm still unclear, are there no creamies anymore? The system did seem a little unfair and pointless anyway. What used to happen when creamies finished being creamies? Did they get to choose which aircraft they flew next?

[aw ditor]

Once-upon-a-time, "Creamies" were called "Scummies"

[will fly for food 06]

Thanks PBA. But i'm still unclear, are there no creamies anymore? The system did seem a little unfair and pointless anyway. What used to happen when creamies finished being creamies? Did they get to choose which aircraft they flew next?

You still get Creamies,

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

Yes, there are still creamies at Valley and also at Linton-on-Ouse on the Tucano and in my experience they are some the best instructors. The creamies are selected after completing the first course at Valley on the Hawk (208 Sqn) and once they have finished their 3 years instructing then they return to Valley to complete the second course on hawks, 19 Sqn (the Tac Weapons bit). I don't know that they get to choose their aircraft as such, but I believe their preferences are taken into account more than their comrades who have gone straight through.
It does have its pluses; where else can you get to be a fast jet display pilot on your first tour!
Many people slag off the system but I have flown with at least 4 (BFJT only) and without exception they have been VERY good!

[will fly for food 06]

I agree, last years display pilot on fast and pointy black thing was a good instructor in my opinion. Creamies can also go to NFTC instead of the fear.

[15thManofTain]

I nearly got chopped, didn't get creamed and I'm now enjoying every moment. I know of creamies who hated every minute - but got a good deal at the end. The poor dudes in the system at the moment are f~cked. That's life, should of failed some trips like the rest of us - swotty lot.

[will fly for food 06]

at least you still have a job

[Dunhovrin]

.. should of failed some trips like the rest of us - swotty lot.

Should HAVE tried harder at English methinks...

[DownloadDog]

You spend the majority of your time in work, therefore, make your work fun. Given the choice between flying a tincan with a top speed of 300kts or a nice pointy jet - I'd go for the Hawk every time. Granted, York is so much more fun than Holyhead, however, get a pad in Chester and escape there at every opportunity.

A lot of 2nd-tourists (ex-Fast jet) stuck at Linton aren't having a great a time as you'd imagine - I know one has PVRd recently.

[Elmlea]

Likewise, there are those who advise that you only fly for 2-3 hours a day: where would you rather spend the remaining 21? :E
York vs Anglesey's no contest, even if the Tucano's awful. Get yourself to 100 Sqn and go for the best of both....? I think most people PVRing aren't necessarily doing it because Linton's awful......

[seven4mankind]

Agree, Elmlea. I did my second tour at Linton, albeit a couple of :ok: yrs ago, and loved it. 'Old codgers' were some of the most conscientious, hilarious guys I've ever flown with. It was a great place to be and the tour is what you make it. Spent a fair bit of time at both places recently, and Valley is the same as it ever was - a pretty miserable, stressed out, uninviting workshed. Linton had a bad rep over the last 2 years with reduced course numbers and FTRS layed off, but all that has changed and the atmosphere is buzzing again with loads of great people.
I'd guess that for the single guys still needing to be strapped to a fast jet and happy to bomb burst to London every weekend like the studes, then it would be OK. For those a bit more settled and wanting a great quality of life and to be able to fly a lot too, Linton's the way ahead.:ok:

[Monty77]

It's all very much about what you want out of life, and where you are in life. There will always be banter between mates as to who has got the 'best jet'. Believe it or not, there is banter between Boeing and Airbus mates as to who has got it right. Long haul/shorthaul, Pax/cargo.

Like I said in an earlier post, you've done something faster and pointier than a Hawk. It's where you want to live that counts, based on age, marital status, family etc. I know guys who work in Saudi who are always looking to the next time when they 'escape' to somewhere they would rather be. And it ain't Chester. I don't think that's a way to live your life, despite the money. In this rich pageant of life, there are always those who hold a different view. Horses for courses, as they say. Given your own personal circumstances, only you can decide what's best for you. And your Posting Officer, obviously.:ok:

[Spacer]

Elmlea.... don't I know you from somewhere?? Hope you and the lady had a good New Year :)

[aim9L]

Thanks for the advice guys.

15th, why are creamies in a bad position now?

[Elmlea]

1) Do you desperately want to get promoted? Very few chaps from Linton get promoted directly out of there. It's not seen as very high profile and there are few important secondary duties.

There was a bit of a push from the last Stn Cdr to change this, and there're two guys promoted from Linton in the 1 Jan list and another two "maybes" from what I hear. So hopefully that problem's a bit outdated.

[jindabyne]

Chaps and Chapesses!
Serious question from old f**t. In the1970s I spent 4 years as an instructor on No 3 Sqn (Hunters) which was based on the Western side of the airfield, adjacent to the beach. Whilst Anglesey was in some ways the pits ( unfriendly locals , weird pub times etc), we made up for that through all the other things (good Mess life, lots of MQ parties, Sqn bashes at the local hosteries etc). Comradarie was pretty good, with lots of inter-Sqn bull****.
What has changed to make you guys dislike it so much?

[Scribbly dee]

Chaps and Chapesses!

Serious question from old f**t. In the1970s I spent 4 years as an instructor on No 3 Sqn (Hunters) which was based on the Western side of the airfield, adjacent to the beach. Whilst Anglesey was in some ways the pits ( unfriendly locals , weird pub times etc), we made up for that through all the other things (good Mess life, lots of MQ parties, Sqn bashes at the local hosteries etc). Comaradie was pretty good, with lots of inter-Sqn bull****.

What has changed to make you guys dislike it so much?

Been there twice for my sins and afraid the mess suffers the same as all the other messes everyone bugs out at the first oportunity, there was a few MQ parties last ime but nothing spectacular. The problem with the place is as you already identified unfriendly locals and poor weather, the new A55 has made it dead simple to get to Chester in an hour where you can enjoy a pint and a bit of shopping without being ignored by a local. Good thing is plenty of bad wether means the weekend can start on a Thu night most of winter :D.

My opinion........ it's got to be Linton every time.....I would rather fry my nads in oil than go back to Valley a third time.:eek:

[will fly for food 06]

Chaps and Chapesses!

Serious question from old f**t. In the1970s I spent 4 years as an instructor on No 3 Sqn (Hunters) which was based on the Western side of the airfield, adjacent to the beach. Whilst Anglesey was in some ways the pits ( unfriendly locals , weird pub times etc), we made up for that through all the other things (good Mess life, lots of MQ parties, Sqn bashes at the local hosteries etc). Comaradie was pretty good, with lots of inter-Sqn bull****.

What has changed to make you guys dislike it so much?

spent 12 months there very recently, no life in the mess, everyone is heading east at 1701 hrs on a friday, the food is the worst i have ever tasted, the only thing that makes up for it was the occasional swell that hit the nice sand bank outside the fear.

[BEagle]

Jinda' - it was perhaps because Valley was more or less an 'overseas tour' that your and your colleagues made the most of it the way you did! As your students, we didn't run away every weekend either - get wasted at Happy Hour followed by brattie and chips from Mary in the Dragon Room (later closed by the food police, I gather:hmm: ) , quiet Saturday (or perhaps a trip to Bangor), Sandymount on Sunday (whatever happened to Jane-Anne? :ooh: )... With no dual carriageway anywhere on the island, only the one bridge over the Menai and Bangor to drive through before you connected with either the tortuous A55 or A5, it took b£oody ages to get anywhere - so instead we stayed and had a great time.

Also, there was none of this childish 'fear' nonsense. 4FTS taught advanced flying training to a very high standard, but didn't even teach battle formation or pretend to be 'tactical' in any way at all. TWUs did all that - and the transition from Valley to Brawdy marked one's graduation from red-and-white Learning Command to green-and-grey Strike Command. It was a proud moment.

I saw a documentary about the present day Valley training on TV a while back - and I'm very glad I knew Valley whilst you guys were QFI'ing there rather than 30 years later!




Even if I was rather cr@p!