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Bus429
23rd Dec 2006, 09:26
I note that the BBC, along with some UK newspapers, has started to use the term "airplane" when referring to aeroplanes (I prefer "aircraft"). The word "aired", referring to a broadcast, is also widely used.
To be honest, standards at the BBC have certainly dropped. I am almost certain that, while watching a BBC Breakfast interview with a Reverend So-and-so last week, that the caption referred to her as a "Chaplin" (sic). I remember watching BBC World a year or so ago and seeing a rolling caption refer to the "Soloman (sic) Islands". The BBC has been known to occasionally misuse the apostrophe.
Journos, take note! :ugh:

2 sheds
23rd Dec 2006, 09:50
It is not just Americanisation with the BBC (and not just the BBC but the communications/news media generally), but sheer ignorance of appropriate words and grammar. The technicalities of the English language are just not taught in schools any more.

Examples:
Everything nowadays apparently is "scary" - a very childish term - is it even a proper word? Also, have you noticed how, in the news, a bomb always "goes off" - have these people never heard of the word "explode"? And invariably, in the weather forecasts, "it looks like the fog will persist..."

Bus429
23rd Dec 2006, 10:02
How about the use of "less" instead of "fewer"?
I look forward to Newsnight on BBC 2 when presented by Paxman or listening to Today when Humphreys is among the presenters; old standards trying to "persist".

Krystal n chips
23rd Dec 2006, 10:11
Might as well add the now frequently uttered expression, "will not happen any time soon" to the list of those which are now commonplace. :yuk: How long before Txt speak is used in lieu of English---for the benefit of the "hard of finkin cos I didunt do Inglish at skool---no wot I meen"

OllyBeak
23rd Dec 2006, 10:12
I used to listen to the electric wireless quite a bit - you can get the Beeb World Service on VHF here. But, for the last year or so, I've just about given up.

Mistakes in grammar and pronunciation used to be rare; now it's a rare story that doesn't have multiple errors.

Peter Day is one of the few reporters whose English is (usually) impeccable, but I understand he's about to retire.

Sadly, it's not just the grammar; it seems that reporters aren't taught to write the studio link first. The result is the introduction is repeated (sometimes word for word) in the first twenty seconds of the package.

And as for reporters referring to themselves in the plural... I heard one the other day utter the damnable phrase, "... even as we're speaking to you now ..."

Grump, grump, grump! And I don't think I've ever been to Tunbridge Wells!

tony draper
23rd Dec 2006, 10:16
Its a disgrace, who would have though we would have Television Front men speaking in Geordie. :E

green granite
23rd Dec 2006, 10:18
The use of the word controversial annoys me, it's usually only their reporting of it that makes it so. Also putting an extra H in Northampton so it becomes North-hampton :ugh:

ducksoup
23rd Dec 2006, 10:34
Apologies in advance for the slight thread creep, however, besides television and radio, how many times have various people been reported as vowing to do something?

e.g. Mourino vows to stuff Man United.

Bollix!

Bus429
23rd Dec 2006, 10:49
Tony,
I must stress that I have no problem with regional accents on the BBC; I'm all for it. We must "celebrate" "diversity".;)

Davaar
23rd Dec 2006, 11:45
" ............. but he would of never ................"

tony draper
23rd Dec 2006, 12:43
One has noted such verbal perversions as "I axed him where he was going" and "Let me axe you this"
Noo Joysey that is int it?
:rolleyes:

Shaggy Sheep Driver
23rd Dec 2006, 12:51
How about presenters that sign off with "see you again tomorrow". Really? They can SEE all 20,000,000 viewers? I always thought TV was a one-way medium.

And one I hate..... 'Train Station'. What's wrong with 'Railway Station'?

Grainger
23rd Dec 2006, 13:47
Nouns used as adjectives :yuk:

The worst one is "key", especially when used non-attributively.

I think this started as a piece of management wankspeak but it's now heard all the time on the news. As far as I'm concerned, a key is a metal thing you open a lock with.

Loki
23rd Dec 2006, 13:57
One of the things which annoys me is the use of euphemisms.

A classic and recent example being "extraordinary rendition" instead of kidnap.

XXTSGR
23rd Dec 2006, 14:00
Verbs used as nouns. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! :mad: :yuk:

For example, people talking about the "annual spend". What's wrong with "expenditure"?

In the window of a local estate agents is the word "build" used as a noun - i.e. "These apartments are in a new build located..."

One of my pet hates is the misplacing of the word "alleged" when reporting crime issues.

e.g. "The alleged offence took place last night" instead of "The offence is alleged to have taken place last night"

Shaggy - agree with you about "See you". Also assuming we're moving when we're sat at home. "In a moment we're off to Ambridge for the latest instalment of The Archers". No, I'm not! I'll stay where I am, thanks very much, and listen to it here (or, rather, switch off before that bloody music comes on).

Further, newsareaders who can only think in cliches - "A has pointed the finger of blame at B". What's wrong with "A is blaming B". Why does a line always have to be drawn "in the sand"? Why do we never have an "opportunity" but always a "window of opportunity"?

Captain Airclues
23rd Dec 2006, 14:50
The Americans say "skedule", the Brits say "shedule". Have you noticed how many UK pilots and cabin crew now use the American version on the PA?

Airclues

Keef
23rd Dec 2006, 15:08
to occasionally misuse
And to boldly split the infinitive, too, perchance?

The one that annoys me is "Go figure". I don't know what it means.
"Go and do some mathematics"? If so, what mathematics?
"Go and do some figure skating"? Not at my age!
"Go and see if you can figure that out"? Hmmm.

green granite
23rd Dec 2006, 15:20
There's an advert which ends with the words "Be life confident", WTF does that mean? :ugh:

Bus429
23rd Dec 2006, 15:24
Keef,

Noted with thanks.:ok:

Foss
23rd Dec 2006, 15:25
Americanism which bugs me 'do the math.'
argh.

Space filling cliches really annoy me. 'Firemen went into the burning house wearing protective equipment and breathing apparatus.'
So they didn't just go in wearing t-shirts and jeans, how odd.

Firemen went into a burning house. That'll do for me.
Fos

Huck
23rd Dec 2006, 16:01
Here's a game I invented called "Well Shots."

Sit down in front of the evening news (BBC or CNN - it doesn't matter). Open a beer and fill a shot glass.

Every time someone begins a sentence with, "Well...", take another shot.

A fine way to enjoy the evening.

Farmer 1
23rd Dec 2006, 16:33
Also putting an extra H in Northampton so it becomes North-hampton.

The same applies to South-hampton.

However, there is a dictionary of how place-names should be pronounced. I haven't seen it myself, but I would not be surprised if that is the correct pronunciation. Not very logical, I know, but then, that is the case with a multitude of towns.

It does no one any good complaining about the falling standards of the BBC. The people in charge obviously see and hear all these toe-curling errors churned out by these highly-paid people, and do nothing about it. I can only think that they have little understanding of basic English themselves. So, if that is the case, when they receive complaints, they cannot understand what the complainant means. I find it particularly embarrassing when a foreign colleague asks me for confirmation if something he has just heard is correct English. When I say No, I can see it comes as quite a shock. There are still people who think the BBC are as good as their reputation, but that number is decreasing rapidly, and the powers that be are doing nothing about it.

One of my pet hates, and there are numerous, is, "...and it's goodnight from John and I." How many schools teach their pupils to say, "From I."?

obgraham
23rd Dec 2006, 17:38
"At this time...", or "At this point in time..."

What's wrong with "Now"?

Loose rivets
23rd Dec 2006, 17:56
XX Further, newsareaders who can only think in cliches - "A has pointed the finger of blame at B". What's wrong with "A is blaming B". Why does a line always have to be drawn "in the sand"? Why do we never have an "opportunity" but always a "window of opportunity"?

Perhaps "Towards more picturesque speech.", as the Reader's Digest would put it. Not all bad, that.



And to boldly split the infinitive, too, perchance?
The one that annoys me is "Go figure". I don't know what it means.
"Go and do some mathematics"? If so, what mathematics?
"Go and do some figure skating"? Not at my age!
"Go and see if you can figure that out"? Hmmm.


Oh dear, Keef. One gets the impression they simply mean "Go and do anything"...as long as it's not here.:suspect: I trust these wern't directed at you!!;)

None of the above
23rd Dec 2006, 19:06
Verbs used as nouns.
Always remember, there ain't no noun that can't be verbed.

Slight thread drift:

British newspapers refer to the 'World Trade Center' because that is its title. Annoyingly, American newspapers (with the possible exception of the NY Times) change spelling to suit their readers eg: 'British Ministry of Defense'

Fg Off Max Stout
23rd Dec 2006, 19:35
Fully on topic:

About a year ago BBC Radio 1' s cretinous DJs went through a phase of stating the time with 'after' instead of 'past' and numbers of minutes rather than fractions of hours. Hearing aberrations such as 'It's fifteen after four' always sent a shiver down my spine. Maybe it even grated for the chav masses as Radio 1 seems to have desisted now.

As for me, myself and I, teachers don't seem to have a clue these days, let alone pupils. Apparently spelling and grammar are no longer assessed in GCSE English, just ideas and meanings. Txt spk is even acceptable for some work. Myself n me mates think its a pretty sad state of affairs, innit. cya l8r.

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
23rd Dec 2006, 19:48
It's reassuring to see that others share my irritations. One that regularly annoys me is when somebody is explaining something not particularly difficult and inserts the phrase, "if you like"; or worse still, "if you will".

John Prescott
23rd Dec 2006, 19:55
What grates me is when ordinary members of the public are interviewed for whatever reason and there is an apparrant need to cram in as many ''basically"s and "actually" as they possibly can.

Davaar
23rd Dec 2006, 20:05
1. TV anchor: ".............and our reporter on the spot in the blizzard says it is cold today. John! What message do you have for our listeners?"

John: "It is cold today".

TV anchor: "Well, there you have it. Today it is cold. In other news .... "

2. TV anchor: "Six rebels have been shot in ................ This will send a message to the rebel movement. They will be shot".

3. "Our reporter is standing by at the: (a) airport, (b) Via Rail Canada station, (c) Greyhound bus depot". Sound stops save for: (a) sound of a Vulcan on scramble from a short runway; (b) Clang of railway bell, clank of couplings, background of PA announcement train Toronto to Sudbury; (c) diesels dragging at traffic lights. In all, half-heard background dialogue appropriate to location, punctuated by repetitive atonic music like morse, or teletype, or if at the docks, Niagara.

Loki
23rd Dec 2006, 20:42
24/7 grrrrrrrrrr makes my blood boil!

henry crun
23rd Dec 2006, 21:03
My two current irritations are people who start any and every explanation with "Basically", and that most over used word in the English language..... ABSOLUTELY.

wasdale
23rd Dec 2006, 21:06
"We shall be taking off momentarily".

Are we really only going to be airborne for a moment?

Davaar
23rd Dec 2006, 21:42
"XY Flight 123 destined for Little Grassfield".

No, You fool! It is planned for Little Grassfield. It is destined for wherever it fetches up.

Loose rivets
23rd Dec 2006, 22:00
I took a full minute for the gargantuan lorry to pass me. When finally the rear section of the plain white side came abeam, there was a crest with the words,


"God Is Awesome."

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
23rd Dec 2006, 23:00
Up in Dallas the cement trucks bear the message "Say No to Drugs", though the meaning is a little diluted when you consider it's also written on the plastic shield thing they put in the urinals :rolleyes:



I'm assuming they expect you to say a resounding Yes to cement :ok:

allan907
24th Dec 2006, 00:15
One of my pet hates is the misplacing of the word "alleged" when reporting crime issues.

e.g. "The alleged offence took place last night" instead of "The offence is alleged to have taken place last night"



No. The incident definitely took place last night. It is only alleged that it was an offence. That will have to be proved later in the legal system

Pedant button reset to zero

tony draper
24th Dec 2006, 00:22
Didn't some Shop Steward once say in front of camera,
"Serious allegations have been made about me,I want to know who the allegator is"
:rolleyes:

Tigger4Me
24th Dec 2006, 00:38
I've never understood the overuse of the word 'do' in PA's on board planes and the superfluous 'at this time'. We do ask you to remain seated at this time. What is wrong with we ask or please remain seated?

Keef
24th Dec 2006, 00:44
The one that still gives me the biggest laugh is the misuse of "quantum" - as in "It was a quantum leap" - implying a major change.

Quantum? The smallest possible (ie indivisible) unit. A quantum leap is a microscopic movement - mebbe significant for a subatomic particle, but not measurable by the likes of me.

allan907
24th Dec 2006, 01:11
Pedant switch back to "MAX"

quantum /kwntm/ n. & a. M16. [L, neut. of quantus how much.] A n. Pl. -ta /-t/, -tums.
1 Quantity; a quantity. Now esp. in Law, an amount of or of money payable in damages etc. Cf. sense 3b below. M16.
2 One's (required or allowed) share or portion. M17.
3 Physics. A discrete quantity of electromagnetic energy proportional in magnitude to the frequency of the radiation it represents; an analogous discrete amount of any other physical quantity (as momentum, electric charge). E20. b transf. & fig. A small discrete amount of anything. M20.
4 Physiol. The unit quantity of acetylcholine which is released at a neuromuscular junction by each single synaptic vesicle, corresponding to a certain small voltage, integral multiples of which go to make up the measured end-plate potential at the junction. M20. B attrib. or as adj. Physics etc. Involving quanta or quantum theory; quantized. E20.Comb. & special collocations: quantum chemistry the branch of physical chemistry that deals with the quantum-mechanical explanation of chemical phenomena; quantum CHROMODYNAMICS; quantum efficiency the proportion of incident photons that are effective in causing photo-decomposition, photo-emission, or similar photo-effect; quantum-electrodynamic, quantum-electrodynamical adjs. of or pertaining to quantum electrodynamics; quantum electrodynamics the branch of quantum field theory that deals with the electromagnetic field and its interaction with electrically charged particles; quantum electronics the branch of physics that deals with the practical consequences of the interaction of quantized energy states with electromagnetic radiation; quantum field theory a field theory that incorporates quantum mechanics and the principles of the theory of relativity; quantum increase a sudden large increase; quantum jump, quantum leap ( a ) Physics an abrupt transition between one stationary state of a quantized system and another, with the absorption or emission of a quantum; ( b ) transf. & fig. a sudden large increase or advance; quantum-mechanical a. of or pertaining to quantum mechanics; quantum-mechanically adv. by means of or as regards quantum mechanics; quantum mechanics (the branch of physics that deals with) the mathematical description of the motion and interaction of (subatomic) particles that incorporates the concepts of quantization of energy, wave-particle duality, the uncertainty principle, and the correspondence principle; quantum number a number which occurs in the theoretical expression for the value of some quantized property of a particle, atom, molecule, etc., and can only have certain integral or half-integral values; principal quantum number: see PRINCIPAL a.; quantum-theoretical a. of or pertaining to quantum theory; quantum-theoretically adv. by means of or as regards quantum theory; quantum theory Physics a theory of matter and energy based on the concept of quanta; esp. = quantum mechanics above; old quantum theory, the early theory of quanta (due to Planck and Einstein) based on classical mechanics, prior to the development of wave mechanics etc.; quantum yield = quantum efficiency above.

---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from Oxford Talking Dictionary
Copyright © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Keef
24th Dec 2006, 02:52
Yes, but it's the inherent error in the transf. & figthat is exactly my point.

Look at the rest. It's about subatomic particles.

allan907
24th Dec 2006, 04:03
It's a quantum leap to say that the entire definition is just about sub-atomic particles :}

Loose rivets
24th Dec 2006, 06:34
I would like to get the issue of fuzzy-logic cleared up.:(

Oceanz
24th Dec 2006, 07:54
Down here in the penal colonies, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation has a Standing Committee on Spoken English (http://www.abc.net.au/corp/pubs/iabc/stories/s635159.htm) (SCOSE). It doesn't seem to make much difference. I imagine that the BBC would have a similar internal committee.

One of their pronouncements (http://www.abc.net.au/newsradio/txt/s1552106.htm)

Geoffersincornwall
24th Dec 2006, 08:31
Don't p**s me off by writing

there instead of they're
there instead of their
were instead of we're

plus the bl****y idiot Bush has polluted the English language forever and people no longer know the difference between a real word and one that Mr B has invented.

enlivate (enliven)
consideralisation............etc etc

but I do love his quote "the problem with the French is they don't have a word for 'entrepreneur'.

Ho HO ho

Merry Christmas

G

;)

Whirlygig
24th Dec 2006, 08:36
I imagine that the BBC would have a similar internal committee.
I believe it [Pronunciation Department] was abolished many years ago; presumably that is why I heard "Skedule" on BBC News yesterday :ugh: .

Cheers

Whirls

Oceanz
24th Dec 2006, 09:09
I worked for the ABC (Australia) in control operations (journo's our enemies as well) until 1996, mainly in NewsCAff.

The problem here has two main causes - universities/colleges of advanced education and lack of editorial oversight.

Most of the new journalists and control room trainees came straight from university, mainly with a B.A. in Communications. They used bad grammar, atrocious spelling, and often couldn't understand basic conventions, such as verbatim quotes being just that - verbatim, not edited as one feels.

When I started in TV in 1975 most of the training was in-house, and any external qualifications were not communications specific. I suspect that it has been the externalisation of a lot of these teaching duties that has lead to the current state of affairs. And I fear that the situation will only worsen as more of my generation retire.

I think the work is now viewed more as "a job" rather than a craft/profession. My wife doesn't like to be around me when we watch the news - these days I swear too much at what I see and hear.

Bus429
24th Dec 2006, 09:22
A few more:

Literally
Normalcy for normality
"like, y'know"


Seen recently on a BBC caption:
"Aer Lingus's board" instead of Aer Lingus' board.

Davaar
24th Dec 2006, 10:52
"Aer Lingus's board" instead of Aer Lingus' board.

.............. but are you sure you're right?

Bus429
24th Dec 2006, 11:26
Davaar,
Look at this (http://www.users.bigpond.com/J_fersOffice/sample.htm). If it looks or sounds awkward, don't use it.
I suppose you're right (rather than "your" right)!;)

Whirlygig
24th Dec 2006, 12:01
The thing is Bus429, is that Aer Lingus's board is not actually wrong and the article you posted just said that it sounds awkward. However, it later appears to contradict itself lower down the page.

Because Aer Lingus is a limited company, it is singular; Aer Lingus' board makes it sound as if Aer Lingus is plural.

There are aspects of grammar and punctuation which are a matter of preference (e.g. the Oxford comma - after an and) but cannot be said to be incorrect. Your example is one of these.

Cheers

Whirls

Binoculars
24th Dec 2006, 12:39
Jeez's wept, I don't think we shud try to keep up with the jones'. I mean its christmas, isn't it? I'm just gonna eat my prawns' and drink my beer's. I reckon their's more important thing's to worry about, but if you guy's want to carry on like pork chop's its up to youse.

Bus429
24th Dec 2006, 13:13
Jeez's wept, I don't think we shud try to keep up with the jones'. I mean its christmas, isn't it? I'm just gonna eat my prawns' and drink my beer's. I reckon their's more important thing's to worry about, but if you guy's want to carry on like pork chop's its up to youse.
Hang on, where did the apostrophe in prawns' (sic) come from? Ah, irony!

Keef
24th Dec 2006, 13:46
I'd of thort so.

Farmer 1
24th Dec 2006, 15:57
I'd of thort so.That's pathetic! I'd of thort you'd know how do spell thunk.

Airstripflyer
24th Dec 2006, 17:25
Did anyone see the caption on BBC Strictly Come Dancing last night which included the word "neice"?

( i before e except after c)!

Two's in
24th Dec 2006, 17:34
...surely it's the Americanization of the BBC?

A pedant writes; in US usage "momentarily" means in a short time, UK usage it means for a short time. e.g. ...the aircraft will be stopping at gate D9 momentarily. Worrying for Brits, reassuring for Americans.

frostbite
24th Dec 2006, 17:54
'Superlative' seems to be getting a lot of work these days, and not with the meaning I always understood it to have.

gruntie
24th Dec 2006, 17:54
Did anyone see the caption on BBC Strictly Come Dancing last night which included the word "neice"?
( i before e except after c)!
Probably written by a bloke called Neil. Who lives on a houseboat, moored by a weir.

Farmer 1
25th Dec 2006, 07:39
Probably written by a bloke called Neil. Who lives on a houseboat, moored by a weir.Bit of irony there, Gruntie? Actually, I happen to know that his name was Keith, and he decided to seize the opportunity.

Tolsti
25th Dec 2006, 08:44
Its a disgrace, who would have though we would have Television Front men speaking in Geordie. :E

Isn't he the same one that does the commentary on Big Brother?..... the twonk who speaks so slowly you think he is just about to fall asleep.....

lanciaspezzata
25th Dec 2006, 09:34
Did anyone see the caption on BBC Strictly Come Dancing last night which included the word "neice"?
( i before e except after c)!
Now, isn't that a weird way to remember how to spell?

Bus429
25th Dec 2006, 10:59
Bit of shadenfruede (is that correct?)from the BBC this morning in news reports about a howler committed by Marks & Spencer (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6208295.stm).

Capt.KAOS
25th Dec 2006, 13:25
Word History: The plane in which we fly is properly named for a very important element of its structurehttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/mdash.gifthe wing that keeps it in the air. But the story behind this name is slightly complicated. To begin with, plane in the sense of "winged vehicle," first recorded in April 1908, is a shortened form of aeroplane. In June of that year plane appeared in a quotation from the London Times that mentioned one of the Wright brothers. Aeroplane, first recorded in 1866, is made up of the prefix aero-, "air, aviation," and the word plane, referring to the structure designed to keep an air vehicle aloft. Originally the plane in such contexts was imagined as flat, hence the choice of the word plane; in practice this surface must curve slightly in order to work. The word aeroplane for the vehicle is first found in 1873. The first recorded appearance of the form airplane in our current sense, which uses air- instead of aero-, is found in 1907. An American flies in an airplane while a Briton still travels in an aeroplane, but both can catch a plane.(Free dictionary)

Krystal n chips
25th Dec 2006, 14:01
Bit of shadenfruede (is that correct?)from the BBC this morning in news reports about a howler committed by Marks & Spencer (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6208295.stm).
Cue music :yuk: and :
" This is not just a misplaced apostrophe, this is the subtle infusion of the possession of nouns, finely blended with the omission of letters and left to mature into the plurality of lowercase letters. Such is the craftsmanship, the apostrophe will simply mingle into the rich texture of the clothing---when your little brat pukes up over Auntie Marge after Christmas dinner----only at Marks and Spencers this Christmas" .

For overseas readers, the voice over for the current series of adverts for M n S food ( which is, seemingly, different to any other form :rolleyes: ) is probably the most patronising, arrogant,condescending and elitist drivel uttered on the box today. You have to hear it, hence my wish ( and probably a few million others ) to strangle not only the woman concerned, but also the :mad: in the ad. agency and Marks who approved it !.

Gordon Fraser
25th Dec 2006, 16:36
And how about the increasing use of "I should of done" instead of "I should have done"? This one really annoys me!:yuk:

Blacksheep
26th Dec 2006, 04:16
If Boeing wants to have a Commercial Airplane Division, who are we to argue?

I like aeroplane for the fixed wing variety. Aircraft may include helicopters, autogyros, airships, dirigibles or even the good old balloon.

In the end though, they're all flying machines.
Except perhaps the balloon.

...or there's my favourite (Oh, ok. since the colonials insist, favorite as well then) - the infernal contraption.

Isn't it just as well that Orville and Wilbur gained the upper hand? Otherwise we'd all be flying around in aerodromes instead of taking off from and alighting upon them.

PLovett
26th Dec 2006, 07:07
Why is it that the media, in any country, constantly refers to the events of "9/11"? :=

In English speaking countries shouldn't the reference be to the "11th of September"?

Just a small example of one of my grumbles. :}

Oceanz
26th Dec 2006, 07:28
(Oh, ok. since the colonials insist, favorite as well then)

The colonials in the penal colonies prefer that you leave the "u" in "favourite"

Blacksheep
26th Dec 2006, 07:58
One was of course, referring to our transatlantic cousins

I know you can spell it properly down under. Unfortunately it is my experience that you can't pronounce it... ;)

ChrisVJ
26th Dec 2006, 08:47
Personally I just hate split infinitives. I have noticed a steady increase in the number of split infinitives appearing on TV News over the last twenty years and have even seen them in the Times. You would think that even our American cousins could manage to get the intoduction of a TV program right but........

Bus429
26th Dec 2006, 09:15
Personally I just hate split infinitives. I have noticed a steady increase in the number of split infinitives appearing on TV News over the last twenty years and have even seen them in the Times. You would think that even our American cousins could manage to get the intoduction of a TV program right but........

Persecuting the split infinitive (http://www.answers.com/topic/split-infinitive)

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
26th Dec 2006, 09:28
Isn't it just as well that Orville and Wilbur gained the upper hand? Otherwise we'd all be flying around in aerodromes instead of taking off from and alighting upon them.

Err, how? why?

None of the above
26th Dec 2006, 09:43
You would think that even our American cousins could manage to get the intoduction of a TV program right but........
Or even a TV programme. (Sorry - couldn't resist.)

Gnirren
26th Dec 2006, 10:19
Ugh... live and let live for crying out loud. Who gives a flying f**k what it's called. From now on I'm calling it "aeronautical fixed-wing vehicle", plane and simple. :p

Bus429
26th Dec 2006, 10:31
Gnirren,
It does matter; why should we change our standards or ideals? Tony Blair has already put the UK further up the USA's bottom (no disrespect to our American friends). I feel we should retain our idiosyncrasies as far as possible.
For example:

Colour
Centre
Flavour
Aeroplane!
Warm beer

The spell checker on this bulletin board highlights my spelling as incorrect!:ugh:

Oceanz
26th Dec 2006, 11:02
Bus 429,
Four out of five isn't too bad I guess :rolleyes:

Farmer 1
26th Dec 2006, 12:27
Shouldn't that be four out of five AREN'T too bad?

Yes, remove the exclamation mark for a perfect result.

Krystal n chips
26th Dec 2006, 12:36
"Four out of five ain't bad"-----shurlely shome mishtake ? ;)


http://www.lyricsfreak.com/m/meat+loaf/two+out+of+three+aint+bad_20091283.html

Re-entry
26th Dec 2006, 12:47
Stock market is up?
No,no,no! It is in positive territory.
I think Greenspan started that one.

Oceanz
26th Dec 2006, 13:23
Shouldn't that be four out of five AREN'T too bad?

Our implied Oz language strikes again - implied are the words "A result of"

Warm beer? :ugh:

Bus429
26th Dec 2006, 18:18
I've just heard another howler from Sophie Raworth on BBC News: "Peter, Saddam Hussein literally towered over Iraq".
She may have been referring to one of his statues. :ok:

None of the above
26th Dec 2006, 18:48
BBC health correspondents now refer to a medical 'specialty'.
In fairness, the medical profession adopted this usage some time ago.
Perhaps they've lost touch with realty.

Bus429
26th Dec 2006, 20:49
Oceanz,
You cannot beat real ale which, although not served warm, should not be served at the neuralgia-inducing temperatures popular in the colonies.:=

ChrisVJ
27th Dec 2006, 01:51
None of the Above

You can tell I have been here too long!

Grainger
27th Dec 2006, 10:41
From the BBC website this morning:A new grit mixture which aims to keep motorists moving over the festive season and into the new year is being trialled in Glasgow.

What a horrible example of a verb-noun-verb progression.

If you try something (or someone) then you have a trial - but since we already have the verb "to try", there is no need to derive another verb from the noun.

frostbite
27th Dec 2006, 12:54
The version of football that the USA play has lots of scantily clad young girls dancing around before, during, and after the game.

In the UK version, a team member walks on holding hands with a young boy.

I find that rather worrying.

Smudger
27th Dec 2006, 19:54
In the past I have, humbly, dared to correct some of the spelling and grammatical errors posted on this erstwhile website and afterward been told in no uncertain terms to get a life and wind my fecking neck in; now there's a whole thread devoted to the same cause! I'm glad to see that I am not alone after all.
And by the way, one does not send an INVITE, one sends an INVITATION! Momentarily..........

Blacksheep
28th Dec 2006, 02:43
Err, how? why?Try Googling Orville+Science Museum+Smithsonian and you'll find out for yourself. ;)

Actually the Wrights didn't call their invention an airplane, aeroplane or even an aerodrome. Their patent application called it a Flying Machine. In the patent application they refer to what we now call "wings" as being a pair of aeroplanes... :}

PLovett
28th Dec 2006, 02:55
From the BBC website this morning:
What a horrible example of a verb-noun-verb progression.
If you try something (or someone) then you have a trial - but since we already have the verb "to try", there is no need to derive another verb from the noun.

Actually, it sounds like a new breakfast cereal. :}

Arm out the window
28th Dec 2006, 05:47
Now, now, Smudger - better watch those adjectives!

"...this erstwhile website..." - according to my Concise Oxford, that would make it a former or previous website.

Erudite, maybe?

Bus429
28th Dec 2006, 09:09
Such as:

Awesome
Hero
Legend

henry crun
28th Dec 2006, 09:37
Bus429: Can I add Diva to your list ?

Bus429
28th Dec 2006, 12:28
Oh, I forgot "Diva".

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
28th Dec 2006, 13:06
How about "pop anthem"? often sung by a "Diva". What the hell is a pop anthem?

PaperTiger
28th Dec 2006, 19:47
One has noted such verbal perversions as "I axed him where he was going" and "Let me axe you this"
Noo Joysey that is int it?
:rolleyes:Old English actually :cool: .

The widespread use of this pronunciation should not be surprising since ax is a very old word in English, having been used in England during the past 1,000 years. In Old English we find both ascian and acsian, and in Middle English both asken and axen. Chaucer used both forms: as in the lines "I wol aske, if it hir will be/To be my wyf" and "Men axed hym, what sholde bifalle," (The Canterbury Tales).

The forms in x arose from the forms in sk by a linguistic process called metathesis(qv), in which two sounds are reversed. The x thus represents (ks), the flipped version of (sk). Metathesis is a common linguistic process around the world and does not arise from a defect in speaking. Nevertheless, ax has become stigmatized as substandard - a fate that has befallen other words, like ain't, that were once perfectly acceptable in literate circles.

By the same process we have dirt (from drit) and curd (from crud). When you use the word flimsy, you do it: the word is the metathesized form of the word filmsy. Other examples are bird (OE brid), third (thridda), horse (hros).

AMF
28th Dec 2006, 21:20
I note that the BBC, along with some UK newspapers, has started to use the term "airplane" when referring to aeroplanes (I prefer "aircraft").:

Well, it's about time y'all got with the program.

PlasticCabDriver
29th Dec 2006, 00:15
For overseas readers, the voice over for the current series of adverts for M n S food ( which is, seemingly, different to any other form :rolleyes: ) is probably the most patronising, arrogant,condescending and elitist drivel uttered on the box today. You have to hear it, hence my wish ( and probably a few million others ) to strangle not only the woman concerned, but also the :mad: in the ad. agency and Marks who approved it !.

Brilliant! It's not just me then! I have to mute the telly (or should that be "silence the television", as "mute" is an adjective and "telly" is very common?) every time that :mad:ing advert comes on or I will eventually end up throwing the coffee table at it.

What is "farm assured" chicken anyway? "We have checked with a farm and it has assured us that this is a chicken"?

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
29th Dec 2006, 00:28
PaperTiger

Why did you do that? I'm fascinated by accents and dialect (and long may they survive). You've just annhilated my entire next argument! Bloody Normans.

oicur12
29th Dec 2006, 00:31
Sep 11 should be referred to as 11/9 not 9/11.

My pet hate when in the US especially as an airline pax "At this time" and my other pet hate "enough already".

Arghhhhh.

Arm out the window
29th Dec 2006, 01:26
There are a couple of little Americanisms creeping into my kids' everyday talk that are different to (or is that from?) what we used to say at their age.

THEN: 'I've got the football.'
NOW: 'I have the football.'

THEN: 'Who's got the football?' 'I have.'
NOW: 'Who has the football?' 'I do.'

There are lots of small changes like this going on that have obviously stemmed from the huge flood of American TV that's been on our screens for the past 30 or 40 years, and while I'm not knocking the way other people speak, it's a sign of the insidious homogenisation of cultures that's creeping up on us.
It's the way of these things, I guess (that's something I wouldn't have said as a young bloke - would've been 'I suppose') where the new and glamorous supplants the supposedly outmoded. Words, expressions and even languages wither and die, and things get lost.
Still, things never stop changing, nor should they. Perhaps one positive effect of the spread of western profit-driven entertainment will be when Achmed and Billy meet on the battlefield 20 years from now and don't shoot eachother because their personal entertainment pods are playing the same holographic music video.

West Coast
29th Dec 2006, 05:53
Its simply the ownership of the language being passed to the US. You can adapt or learn French.

I hate all those extra U's you blokes put in our words. Knock it off.

Tigger4Me
29th Dec 2006, 14:01
'Arm out the window' now you've got me going. How about, can I get a coffee instead of can I have a coffee?

frostbite
29th Dec 2006, 15:49
Just seen one of my (many) eBay hates - "much sort after".

runs off screaming.....

A2QFI
29th Dec 2006, 16:14
I know some idiot writes their junk for them but even the delivery is a bit suspect. Anything involving a hint of corruption becomes ???????gate, we have pop moguls, drug czars and drug barons, enquiries are 'launched' (I thought that was ships) things are rolled out (introduced) and what is the top of the hour, does nothing happen at the bottom of the hour?
I have heard of people rushing for the "Eggzits" - I always though they were ecksits = Exits. No wonder some teenagers are alleged to get by on a vocabulary of 250 basic words which include innit, like, and you know

None of the above
29th Dec 2006, 19:52
Its simply the ownership of the language being passed to the US. You can adapt or learn French.
I hate all those extra U's you blokes put in our words. Knock it off.
Unfortunately, we have given English to the world in the same manner as the source code for Linux. Others can do as they think fit with the language; consequently all manner of abominations have sullied the Mother Tongue.

Clive Roberts
3rd Jan 2007, 23:36
Given all the bad news and killing going on in the world, which is reported by the BBC, many broadcasters now inform us that people are dying from things, rather than of them.
I suppose this isn't really important to the victims, but I wish the BBC would be consistent. It is disorientating, at my age, to hear grammatical howlers on Auntie BBC, which would have been severely frowned upon ( um ... upon which would have been severely ... Oh Dear!) when I was at school.
Ah Well. I suppose that dying from things will probably have become correct usage in about ten years.

HyFlyer
3rd Jan 2007, 23:55
Language changes. English has constantly evolved. It is still doing it.
Some forms of speech, gramatical constructions, phrases and words will enter the language and survive, others will not.
That is the nature of the English language and exactly why it is so widely used around the world.
And that is the last word on the subject.....all the rest is hot air from sad acts...

Re-entry
4th Jan 2007, 00:14
Gramatical should read Grammatical. If you want to give lectures, at least get it right.

allan907
4th Jan 2007, 00:52
Yer wouldn't like it darn under then, where things don't "happen" they "eventuate"

Blacksheep
4th Jan 2007, 01:16
Latin was once the international language of choice. That's where 'Grammar Schools' originated, teaching Latin grammar to the children of the ruling and clerical classes. (An' me, me'sen, an arl ;) ). Along with the schools came the grammar police...

"Latin is a language,
as dead as dead can be.
It killed the bloody Romans,
and now its killing me."

With the death of Latin, French became the international language of choice. That's where the expression "Lingua Franca" came from. The French created an odd organization committed to protecting their language from foreign corruption and they mercilessly deal with any and all foreign importations. French is almost dead as an international language these days, but it is pure. So pure that even ordinary Frenchmen can no longer speak it.

English is now the international language of choice. We mustn't allow the grammar police to spoil it all again.

For arl us true Englishmen, whey we can tark amang wharsen's in dailec, an they divn't knar warrus tarking aboot anyhow. ;)

Dushan
4th Jan 2007, 02:57
Don't p**s me off by writing
there instead of they're
there instead of their
were instead of we're
plus the bl****y idiot Bush has polluted the English language forever and people no longer know the difference between a real word and one that Mr B has invented.
enlivate (enliven)
consideralisation............etc etc
but I do love his quote "the problem with the French is they don't have a word for 'entrepreneur'.
Ho HO ho
Merry Christmas
G
;)

Yeah, but he is in the oval office and you are not!

Blacksheep
4th Jan 2007, 05:08
Yeah, but he is in the oval office and you are not!But who, exactly put him there? I mean, most of us can't vote in the U.S. Presidential elections...

We can definitely blame that one on the Americans! :E

Mind you, we Brits have nothing to brag about. Look who we put into No. 10... :(

For a third time! :ugh:


Though it must be, errr.... said.

That, erm

what I mean to say is, errr...

that whether we like it or not,

and that's the whole point. Err..

Tony can certainly, or at least most of the err...

time, err...

Speak proper English.

As I'm sure you'll all agree.

Krystal n chips
4th Jan 2007, 07:31
Another little gem from BBC Look North here in Machester over the New Year---presenter, commenting about the cancellation of the nights celebrations, duly informs us they have "been cancelled off" :ugh: :{

As for the standard of presenter--the "other channel "evening news now have a new "Gosh, I'm sooooo important" girlie---who has the interesting habit of leaning forward and sticking her face into the camera / autocue whilst hectoring us as she delivers the item in question----she'll probably go far in her chosen career :rolleyes:

panda-k-bear
4th Jan 2007, 09:36
Nowt wrong with that girlie voice on the M&S ads. Sexy, she is.

And their food IS better than that sold in most other shopping establishments. Whether you think that having better food is elitist or not, who gives a fig. The quality is excellent, the flavours are superior and to top it all, it costs a fortune.

Please don't tell me that the Guardianistas now hate M&S for being elitist purely because they claim to have better food than anyone else.

RAC/OPS
4th Jan 2007, 11:20
I hate all those extra U's you blokes put in our words. Knock it off.

shouldn't that be "or words" for ease of learning and homogenization (the zee is intentional)?

While on the BBC, what is the point of "And now for a look at the time...It's a quarter past six!

Skytrucker87
4th Jan 2007, 14:54
And how can anyone say "I am literally speechless"

And why have some nouns turned into verbs e.g. "He was knifed" or "gunned down"? Why not "roped" or baseball-batted"

cynicalint
4th Jan 2007, 15:13
'Changed the course of history'

If it is history, you cannot change it - if it has not yet happened, then the course has not yet been determined. A person can make history or affect events to achieve differing outcomes, but you cannot change the course of history!

ORAC
4th Jan 2007, 15:36
This language is no longer ours, but it is also not that of our American cousins, oh most goodness gracious me no, it belongs the to our Indian cousins.... May I suggest that, for those interested in the language, they buy a copy of Hobson-Jobson (http://www.idiocentrism.com/yule.htm)?

ps. Howlers on the BBC. Though, to be fair, they did use it to mock themselves for several weeks afterwards. The presenter of their latest radio series on the dangers of Global Warming had a much repeatedly trailer where he breathlessly described the world as being: "On the precipice of a runaway train"... :}

Davaar
4th Jan 2007, 16:04
This is not new. Fifty years ago an American actor was interviewed on BBC TV in company with a co-star, an American actress. "And how many", asked the BBC TV lady, "children do you have?" "Four [or whatever]" replied American actor, on which American actress co-star interjected with earthy chuckle: "Oh Sure! And one in the oven!"

Consternation. I cannot remember whether or not they immediately cut the broadcast, but I clearly recall a BBC press release a day or so later to the effect that the American actress co-star had REALLY REALLY said: "Oh Sure! And one in the offing!".

CWL2YOW
4th Jan 2007, 16:44
Davaar and other Ontario-based readers may have noticed this gem on the TV (is that OK (okay?) or should it be television?) on one of the lottery commercials where they announce proudly that there is "over $15 in prizing". Prizing? WTF is "prizing"?!

Another pet peeve, is people saying that they have "gotten off of the plane". "Got off" anyone?

Blacksheep
5th Jan 2007, 00:19
the zee Tut tut! That American zee is an English zed!
As for "gotten" - it is, I was reliably informed, an old English form. Gotten, begotten and I suppose, forgotten...

Whirlygig
5th Jan 2007, 00:21
Blacksheep, you are quite correct about "gotten"; 'twas what us Brits used to say 4 centuries ago! However, "off of" does grate somewhat!!

Cheers

Whirls

ORAC
5th Jan 2007, 08:54
Blacksheep, you are quite correct about "gotten"; 'twas what us Brits used to say 4 centuries ago! IIRC, "Ill gotten goods" was, and is, an accepted modern usage.....

winkle
5th Jan 2007, 09:59
excuse my bad spolling and grammer.
To fluff up the nomal things in life:
Tarmacadam surface engineer.....................Roadsweeper
Domestic engineer/manager........................Housewife/husband
Weapons system operator..........................nav ( oi you in the back)
Cabin services director/manager..................purser
Traditional data transfer specialist...............postman
landscaping engineer.................................gardener

where do you think these terms come from.
why cant estate agents refer to a gate or shed made from wood as a wooden gate or shed. i suppose timber is a much better product than wood!!!!!!
whilst i am on worst atc in the world - eastern seaboard usa why do they have to speak so quickly is it a competition.
and to all you quietly spoken pilots out there for fecks sake SPEAK LOUDER!!!!!!!
love a good rant, makes me smile for the rest of the day, mind you so do few other things.

RAC/OPS
5th Jan 2007, 11:50
Tut tut! That American zee is an English zed!


Was just layering on another layer of irony or something

frostbite
5th Jan 2007, 13:08
Where the hell did Realtor come from?

Come to that, where did 'Real Estate' derive? (as opposed to 'unreal' ?)

None of the above
5th Jan 2007, 17:01
Where the hell did Realtor come from?
Come to that, where did 'Real Estate' derive? (as opposed to 'unreal' ?)
My mate says 'Realtor' is derived from 'Real Estate Attorney'.

Said mate has been known to be wrong.:ok:

E & OE

Davaar
5th Jan 2007, 19:54
"and I do bequeath ............. all my property (1) real and (2) personal, wheresover situated ...................."

(1) sued by actions in rem.

(2) sued by actions in personam.

Terms derive from Roman Law. An actio in personam was the remedy where a claim against a specific person arose out of an obligation, whether ex contractu or ex maleficio, whereas an actio in rem was one brought for the assertion of a right of property, easement, status, etc. See original sources cited in Black's Law Dictionary, West Publishing Co., Minn.

I just love the chance to talk dirty like this.

XXTSGR
6th Jan 2007, 13:16
He said "a specific person arose" hurrrrrr hurrrrrrr! :}:E

barit1
9th Jan 2007, 15:24
Why is it that the media, in any country, constantly refers to the events of "9/11"? :=


Two points: Why is it that "media" is regarded by journos and public alike as a singular noun, when my dictionary says that media is the plural of medium?

and - immediately after the attack, Americans took note of the fact that the date corresponded to the US telephone emergency call number - 911.

Farmer 1
9th Jan 2007, 15:47
...and 9/11 is actually 11/9 in Americanese.

tony draper
9th Jan 2007, 18:18
Then of course we have Fanny, in Amurican it means the posterior, in England it is a Victorian ladies name.
:rolleyes:

Davaar
9th Jan 2007, 18:33
He said "a specific person arose" hurrrrrr hurrrrrrr! :}:E

Deary me!

No! No! No! He said "a claim ...... arose".

Gather round, Little Ones. This is a new lesson. We are moving along to subjects and objects. The verb "arose" has a subject and it has an object. Can you tell which is which? Good!

Now do you see a little word with a big, big, name? It is a pre-pos-it-ion. Which word is that? Does it help us with the object? If it does, how does it do so?

Besides, the words are taken from the learned Henry Campbell Back, M.A., "Author of Treatises on Judgments, Tax Titles, Intoxicating Liquors, Bankruptcy, Mortgages, Constitutional Law, Interpretation of Laws, Rescission and Cancellation of Contracts, Etc."

If you feel up the task, tackle him. Go for it. Do not be intimidated by the "Etc."

Farmer 1
9th Jan 2007, 18:51
The verb "arose" has a subject and it has an object.

I hate to be pedantic, but: there are just a couple of ever so minor errors there, Davaar. There is no verb "arose", it is "arise", and it is an intransitive verb, i.e. it has no object.

Grainger
9th Jan 2007, 19:02
"arose" by any other name . . . ?

CUNIM
9th Jan 2007, 20:24
The one that gets me is Billion meaning one times ten to the power nine - thousand million. NO that is a milliard, a Billion is one times ten to the power twelve - million million. The news readers when talking about astronomic distances or quantities always leave me wondering if I am one thousand times out on what I am hearing. I have also had some thick uneducated editor of a magazine changing my "these data" to "this data" then the Daily Telegraph writing referendums curriculums Grr :*

Davaar
9th Jan 2007, 20:33
I hate to be pedantic, but: there are just a couple of ever so minor errors there, Davaar. There is no verb "arose", it is "arise", and it is an intransitive verb, i.e. it has no object.

I move from Deary Me to Oh Golly.

No verb "arose", the man says. The material and relevant part of the verb "arise" is the third person singular, past tense, indicative, active, "arose". Would you rather that I give the principal parts, as in Latin? Or a Latinate "to arise"?

Consult The Second book of Moses, called Exodus, in the King James or Authorised Version in English, and there, brethren, and if you insist, sistern, reading in the First Chapter and the Eighth verse we find these words: "Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph". That takes us back to 1611 or so. Tell me which word in the principal clause of that sentence is the verb.

As to the intransitive nature of the verb, how explicit must I be? I indicated the preposition, in my citation :"against", in the structure "out of" , for which I see the analogue in Exodus "up .... over"; and "against" in my case with the analogue "knew not" in Exodus.

I agree you are right on the pedantry, but do you really hate it?

Evening Star
9th Jan 2007, 21:12
Probe instead of investigation. :yuk: :* :ugh: :ugh:

Oh, and 9/11, but think that has been done a few times before.:oh:

ORAC
9th Jan 2007, 21:28
The one that gets me is Billion meaning one times ten to the power nine - thousand million. NO that is a milliard, a Billion is one times ten to the power twelve - million million. The news readers when talking about astronomic distances or quantities always leave me wondering if I am one thousand times out on what I am hearing. I have also had some thick uneducated editor of a magazine changing my "these data" to "this data"
The american billion, 1000 million, is the now commonly acceptable usage, English is not a static language. Aggregate nouns (where an indefinite number of objects have a noun which takes the plural form, e.g. media, data, people, outskirts) but are themselves seen as a singular noun, vary in the verb format. Some, such as media and data, can take the plural or singular - the data/media is/are - others, such as people or outskirts, only take the plural.

English is a mess of contradictions, exceptions and changes, don't get uptight about it. I believe, for example, that it is incorrect to end a sentence with a preposition, but that is a subject I will not dwell on....

Davaar
9th Jan 2007, 21:45
As Sir Winston did put it, so they say, a propos the old preposition problem: “This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.”

gruntie
9th Jan 2007, 21:48
That puzzling and previously unknown organisation referred to as "The British Navy". Apparently, there's a "British Air Force" too.

gizmocat
9th Jan 2007, 22:14
I've been getting more and more wound up by the use of 'text' as a verb.
The BBC News say it every morning. "Send us an e-mail or text us" :sad:
I did, however, do a quick google before I posted, and apparently the verb "to text" is old English for WRITING IN CAPITALS !! That'll be about right then. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, I also came across this nugget; teachers notes from the BBC, a quick scan of page 4 says it all really...:eek:
Teachers Notes (http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:2vK6__RIFp0J:downloads.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/uptodate/pdf/uptodate_text_plan.pdf+text+verb&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7)

Appart fron the atrocious English, Cell-phones were apparently sick 5-10 years ago. :mad:

Davaar
9th Jan 2007, 22:32
"Foxtrot me", said the duchess. I revelled the other day in Dr draper's use of "lest". Try that one in "Text".

ORAC
9th Jan 2007, 22:47
OED: 1599, Shakespeare, much Ado v.i. 185

"Yea and text underneath, heere dwells Benedicke the married man"....

tony draper
9th Jan 2007, 22:56
One understands the Bard invented or rather came up with many of the words we use today.
One cannot be bothered to google em all.
:rolleyes:
Buggah it see below,
Possible by invented they mean he was the first to use em in print.

Hmmm, one likes that Bethump,"begone foul nave lest one bethump yer"
* Academe
* accessible
* accommodation
* addiction (Shakespeare meant “tendency”)
* admirable
* aerial (Shakespeare meant “of the air”)
* airless
* amazement
* anchovy
* arch-villain
* to arouse
* assassination
* auspicious
* bachelorship (“bachelorhood”)
* to barber
* barefaced
* baseless
* batty (Shakespeare meant “bat-like”)
* beachy (“beach-covered”)
* to bedabble
* to bedazzle
* bedroom (Shakespeare meant a “room in bed”)
* to belly (“to swell”)
* belongings
* to besmirch
* to bet
* to bethump
* birthplace
* black-faced
* to blanket
* bloodstained
* bloodsucking
* blusterer
* bodikins (“little bodies”)
* bold-faced
* braggartism
* brisky
* broomstaff (“broom-handle”)
* budger (“one who budges”)
* bump (as a noun)
* buzzer (Shakespeare meant “tattle-tale”)
* to cake
* candle holder
* to canopy
* to cater (as “to bring food”)
* to castigate
* catlike
* to champion
* characterless
* cheap (in pejorative sense of “vulgar”)
* chimney-top
* chopped (Shakespeare meant “chapped”)
* churchlike
* circumstantial
* clutch
* cold-blooded
* coldhearted
* colourful
* compact (as noun “agreement”)
* to comply
* to compromise (Shakespeare meant “to agree”)
* consanguineous (related by blood)
* control (as a noun)
* coppernose (“a kind of acne”)
* countless
* courtship
* to cow (as “intimidate”)
* critical
* cruelhearted
* to cudgel
* Dalmatian
* to dapple
* dauntless
* dawn (as a noun)
* day’s work
* deaths-head
* defeat (the noun)
* to denote
* depositary (as “trustee”)
* dewdrop
* dexterously (Shakespeare spelled it “dexteriously”)
* disgraceful (Shakespeare meant “unbecoming”)
* to dishearten
* to dislocate
* distasteful (Shakespeare meant “showing disgust”)
* distrustful
* dog-weary
* doit (a Dutch coin: “a pittance”)
* domineering
* downstairs
* East Indies
* to educate
* to elbow
* embrace (as a noun)
* employer
* employment
* enfranchisement
* engagement
* to enmesh
* enrapt
* to enthrone
* epileptic
* equivocal
* eventful
* excitement (Shakespeare meant “incitement”)
* expedience
* expertness
* exposure
* eyeball
* eyedrop (Shakespeare meant as a “tear”)
* eyewink
* fair-faced
* fairyland
* fanged
* fap (“intoxicated”)
* farmhouse
* far-off
* fashionable
* fashionmonger
* fathomless (Shakespeare meant “too huge to be encircled by one’s arms”)
* fat-witted
* featureless (Shakespeare meant “ugly”)
* fiendlike
* to fishify (“turn into fish”)
* fitful
* fixture (Shakespeare meant “fixing” or setting “firmly in place”)
* fleshment (“the excitement of first success”)
* flirt-gill (a “floozy”)
* flowery (“full of florid expressions”)
* fly-bitten
* footfall
* foppish
* foregone
* fortune-teller
* foul mouthed
* Franciscan
* freezing (as an adjective)
* fretful
* frugal
* full-grown
* fullhearted
* futurity
* gallantry (Shakespeare meant “gallant people”)
* garden house
* generous (Shakespeare meant “gentle,” “noble”)
* gentlefolk
* glow (as a noun)
* to glutton
* to gnarl
* go-between
* to gossip (Shakespeare meant “to make oneself at home like a gossip—that is, a kindred spirit or a fast friend”)
* grass plot
* gravel-blind
* gray-eyed
* green-eyed
* grief-shot (as “sorrow-stricken”)
* grime (as a noun)
* to grovel
* gust (as a “wind-blast”)
* half-blooded
* to happy (“to gladden”)
* heartsore
* hedge-pig
* hell-born
* to hinge
* hint (as a noun)
* hobnail (as a noun)
* homely (sense “ugly”)
* honey-tongued
* hornbook (an “alphabet tablet”)
* hostile
* hot-blooded
* howl (as a noun)
* to humor
* hunchbacked
* hurly (as a “commotion”)
* to hurry
* idle-headed
* ill-tempered
* ill-used
* impartial
* to impede
* imploratory (“solicitor”)
* import (the noun: “importance” or “signifigance”)
* inaudible
* inauspicious
* incarnadine (verb: "to make red with blood"; used in Macbeth)
* indirection
* indistinguishable
* inducement
* informal (Shakespeare meant “unformed” or “irresolute”)
* to inhearse (to “load into a hearse”)
* to inlay
* to instate (Shakespeare, who spelled it “enstate,” meant “to endow”)
* inventorially (“in detail”)
* investment (Shakespeare meant as “a piece of clothing”)
* invitation
* invulnerable
* jaded (Shakespeare seems to have meant “contemptible”)
* juiced (“juicy”)
* keech (“solidified fat”)
* kickie-wickie (a derogatory term for a wife)
* kitchen-wench
* lackluster
* ladybird
* lament
* land-rat
* to lapse
* laughable
* leaky
* leapfrog
* lewdster
* loggerhead (Shakespeare meant “blockhead”)
* lonely (Shakespeare meant “lone”)
* long-legged
* love letter
* lustihood
* lustrous
* madcap
* madwoman
* majestic
* malignancy (Shakespeare meant “malign tendency”)
* manager
* marketable
* marriage bed
* militarist (Shakespeare meant “soldier”)
* mimic (as a noun)
* misgiving (sense “uneasiness”)
* misquote
* mockable (as “deserving ridicule”)
* money’s worth (“money-worth” dates from the 14th century)
* monumental
* moonbeam
* mortifying (as an adjective)
* motionless
* mountaineer (Shakespeare meant as “mountain-dweller”)
* to muddy
* neglect (as a noun)
* to negotiate
* never-ending
* newsmonger
* nimble-footed
* noiseless
* nook-shotten (“full of corners or angles”)
* to numb
* obscene (Shakespeare meant “revolting”)
* ode
* to offcap (to “doff one’s cap”)
* offenseful (meaning “sinful”)
* offenseless (“unoffending”)
* Olympian (Shakespeare meant “Olympic”)
* to operate
* oppugnancy (“antagonism”)
* outbreak
* to outdare
* to outfrown
* to out-Herod
* to outscold
* to outsell (Shakespeare meant “to exceed in value”)
* to out-talk
* to out-villain
* to outweigh
* overblown (Shakespeare meant “blown over”)
* overcredulous
* overgrowth
* to overpay
* to overpower
* to overrate
* overview (Shakespeare meant as “supervision”)
* pageantry
* to palate (Shakespeare meant “to relish”)
* pale-faced
* to pander
* passado (a kind of sword-thrust)
* paternal
* pebbled
* pedant (Shakespeare meant a schoolmaster)
* pedantical
* pendulous (Shakespeare meant “hanging over”)
* to perplex
* to petition
* pignut (a type of tuber)
* pious
* please-man (a “yes-man”)
* plumpy (“plump”)
* posture (Shakespeare seems to have meant “position” or “positioning”)
* prayerbook
* priceless
* profitless
* Promethean
* protester (Shakespeare meant “one who affirms”)
* published (Shakespeare meant “commonly recognized”)
* to puke
* puppy-dog
* pushpin (Shakespeare was referring to a children’s game)
* on purpose
* quarrelsome
* in question (as in “the … in question”)
* radiance
* to rant
* rascally
* rawboned (meaning “very gaunt”)
* reclusive
* refractory
* reinforcement (Shakespeare meant “renewed force”)
* reliance
* remorseless
* reprieve (as a noun)
* resolve (as a noun)
* restoration
* restraint (as “reserve”)
* retirement
* to reverb (“to re-echo”)
* revokement (“revocation”)
* revolting (Shakespeare meant as “rebellious”)
* to reword (Shakespeare meant “repeat”)
* ring carrier (a “go-between”)
* to rival (meaning to “compete”).
* roadway
* roguery
* rose-cheeked
* rose-lipped
* rumination
* ruttish (horny)
* one's Salad Days
* sanctimonious
* to sate
* satisfying (as an adjective)
* savage (as “uncivilized”)
* savagery
* schoolboy
* scrimer (“a fence”)
* scrubbed (Shakespeare meant “stunted”)
* scuffle
* seamy (“seamed”) and seamy-side (Shakespeare meant “under-side of a garment”)
* to secure (Shakespeare meant “to obtain security”)
* self-abuse (Shakespeare meant “self-deception”)
* shipwrecked (Shakespeare spelled it “shipwrackt”)
* shooting star
* shudder (as a noun)
* silk stocking
* silliness
* to sire
* skimble-skamble (“senseless”)
* skim milk (in quarto; “skim’d milk” in the Folio)
* slugabed (one who sleeps in)
* to sneak
* soft-hearted
* spectacled
* spilth (“something spilled”)
* spleenful
* sportive
* to squabble
* stealthy
* stillborn
* to subcontract (Shakespeare meant “to remarry”)
* successful
* suffocating (as an adjective)
* to sully
* to supervise (Shakespeare meant “to peruse”)
* to swagger
* tanling (someone with a tan)
* tardiness
* time-honored
* title page
* tortive (“twisted”)
* to torture
* traditional (Shakespeare meant “tradition-bound”)
* tranquil
* transcendence
* trippingly
* unaccommodated
* unappeased
* to unbosom
* unchanging
* unclaimed
* uncomfortable (sense “disquieting”)
* to uncurl
* to undervalue (Shakespeare meant “to judge as of lesser value”)
* to undress
* unearthy
* uneducated
* to unfool
* unfrequented
* ungoverned
* ungrown
* to unhappy
* unhelpful
* unhidden
* unlicensed
* unmitigated
* unmusical
* to un muzzle
* unpolluted
* unpremeditated
* unpublished (Shakespeare meant “undisclosed”)
* unquestionable (Shakespeare meant “impatient”)
* unquestioned
* unreal
* unrivaled
* unscarred
* unscratched
* to unsex (verb: "to [in its context] make a woman unwomanly (that she might do deeds of men (murder)"; said by Lady Macbeth, in her husband's play)
* unsolicited
* unsullied
* unswayed (Shakespeare meant “unused” and “ungoverned”)
* untutored
* unvarnished
* unwillingness (sense “reluctance”)
* upstairs
* useful
* useless
* valueless
* varied (as an adjective)
* varletry
* vasty
* vulnerable
* watchdog
* water drop
* water fly
* weird
* well-behaved
* well-bred
* well-educated
* well-read
* to widen (Shakespeare meant “to open wide”)
* wittolly (“contentedly a cuckhold”)
* worn out (Shakespeare meant “dearly departed”)
* wry-necked (“crook-necked”)
* yelping (as an adjective)
* zany (a clown’s sidekick or a mocking mimic)

barit1
9th Jan 2007, 23:23
I love it when you talk dirty! :}

Dushan
10th Jan 2007, 00:08
"Send us an e-mail or text us".
And just think what those "text-ed" messages look like. Sadly that c..p is creeping into everyday use and taking over. r u rdy 4 it?

Farmer 1
10th Jan 2007, 14:25
I move from Deary Me to Oh Golly.
No verb "arose", the man says. The material and relevant part of the verb "arise" is the third person singular, past tense, indicative, active, "arose". Would you rather that I give the principal parts, as in Latin? Or a Latinate "to arise"?
Consult The Second book of Moses, called Exodus, in the King James or Authorised Version in English, and there, brethren, and if you insist, sistern, reading in the First Chapter and the Eighth verse we find these words: "Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph". That takes us back to 1611 or so. Tell me which word in the principal clause of that sentence is the verb.
As to the intransitive nature of the verb, how explicit must I be? I indicated the preposition, in my citation :"against", in the structure "out of" , for which I see the analogue in Exodus "up .... over"; and "against" in my case with the analogue "knew not" in Exodus.
I agree you are right on the pedantry, but do you really hate it?John 11:35

Davaar
10th Jan 2007, 16:01
Aye. Mmmmmphm. Just so. Just So. Deuteronomy 5, 11.

tony draper
10th Jan 2007, 16:20
Oh dear, verses at ten paces. :rolleyes:
John, 11:35

Davaar
10th Jan 2007, 16:40
Come off it, Dr draper, let's at least have something original! My own quotation is now the meat in the sandwich between the identical self-same stale bread from Farmer 1 and you. Let's see some variety.

tony draper
10th Jan 2007, 17:37
oops sorry, one did not read Mr Farmers post in full, one is a tad distracted today.:rolleyes:

Davaar
10th Jan 2007, 18:04
Understood. One's thoughts are with the SWH.

AMF
10th Jan 2007, 21:18
When you British-types rid yourselves from all the French influence found in your "English" English language and spelling, we might begin take you seriously.

Davaar
10th Jan 2007, 21:21
Awa' an' spin yer peerie, Mun.

XXTSGR
11th Jan 2007, 08:49
AMF, I don't know if you've ever noticed, but the English language has its origins in all sorts of languages - most of the grammar comes from Latin, as do many of the words. The rest of the words come from Greek, German, Norse, French and other European languages, plus Arabic, several Indian languages etc. etc.

I'm not sure why you would single out French but if we were to rid ourselves of all the words we got with the Normans in 1066 and subsequent years would imply that perhaps we should get rid of all other outside influences as well. And what would we be left with? Not a lot.

What's more, the vast majority of original aviation terms are French in origin - I assume that you would also like to get rid of all those as well?

Since the former colonies on the other side of the pond separated from us before spelling rules were formulated, I can't get excited about American and English differences. We do things one way, the US does it another. But I would point out that it is the USA which spells "defense" in the French manner.

I'm not sure what you could do after many of your posts to persuade us to take you seriously.

Choxolate
11th Jan 2007, 09:50
When you British-types rid yourselves from all the French influence found in your "English" English language and spelling, we might begin take you seriously.
I would have thought (being a "British type") that by definition English is the language used in England, as French is the language used in France etc.
American is the language used in America (it is NOT English) and has its roots in English with bits of Spanish, Yiddish, German, Dutch etc. added in see http://www.bartleby.com/185/

We don't take lectures from the Colonies := 'cos we are right by definition (being born an Englishman is to win the lottery of life) :) :ok:

[Edited fro a smelling pistake]

Tigger4Me
11th Jan 2007, 10:00
Since the former colonies on the other side of the pond separated from us before spelling rules were formulated, I can't get excited about American and English differences. We do things one way, the US does it another.

Personally I agree so let us keep them as differences rather than import every Americanisation into our language and culture. The latest is the report in a newspaper recently of a heist being committed. Sorry! Do you mean a robbery? Also, why did opticians suddenly find the need to be called optometrists and dentists demand to be called doctor?
Interestingly a Google search for the definition of optometrist turns up a contradiction:
A professional who measures visual acuity and prescribes corrective lenses (glasses); the optometrist is not a physician, is not qualified to diagnose or treat eye diseases, and does not perform eye surgery.
www.childrenwithchallenges.net/definitions/O.html
Or
Highly qualified, trained doctors, on the frontline of eye health and vision care, who examine, diagnose, treat, and manage diseases and disorders of the eye. In addition to providing eye and vision care, optometrists play a major role in an individual's overall health and well-being by appropriately detecting systemic diseases. Doctors of optometry provide more than two-thirds of all primary eye care in the United States.
www.infantsee.org/x3635.xml

Dushan
11th Jan 2007, 13:03
Interestingly a Google search for the definition of optometrist turns up a contradiction:

There are 3 levels of eye care professionals.

Optician - makes, sells and fits glasses.
Optometrist - Doctor of optometry. Deals with vision correction side of things. Prescribes corrective lenses. Consider him a GP (General Practitioner of vision care). Will prescribe medication for external problems such as an inflammation - "pink eye". Diagnoses more serious problems and refers to ophthalmologist.
Ophthalmologist - Doctor of Ophthalmology. All things the optometrist does as well as eye surgery. Deals with diseases of the eye that are not strictly vision related, although I guess in the case of the eye, everything is, ultimately, vision related.

Tigger4Me
11th Jan 2007, 14:00
Thanks for that Dushan and I note that you are in Toronto. My point is that in the UK it seems that every High Street shop that has any connection with the business of tending to our eyes now chooses to describe the business as an Optometrist. The word Optician has all but disappeared.

I wonder how many of these businesses actually employ a doctor of optometry.

gizmocat
11th Jan 2007, 20:37
Well personally, I don't care what they call themselves these days. When I go to get my eyes tested, I say I'm going to the opticians. That said, however, I wonder how long it will bebefore the great unwashed start saying "I'm going to the spec-savers"? :rolleyes:

Farmer 1
12th Jan 2007, 12:05
Davaar,

My apologies, sir. I have not been able to get to the internet machine for a couple of days. That's the trouble with having to work for a living. Anyway, I'm afraid I've lost the thread. I remember my first post to you was just a tad tongue in cheek, with no disrespect intended (well, not that much).

I'm tempted to mention Matthew 13:4, but that would be being ridiculous, so I won't.

Can we agree to differ on whatever it was?

Davaar
12th Jan 2007, 12:46
.......... and, Farmer, you have been sadly missed. I even tried starting a new thread (q.v.) to bring you back.

In isolation, Mr Interlocutor, Mr Bones, and Mr Tambourineman are sad fellows.

Bus429
12th Jan 2007, 19:45
The term "CEO" has entered British parlance.

PaperTiger
12th Jan 2007, 22:23
When did an accident, crash, crime etc. become merely an incident ?

Why ?

tony draper
12th Jan 2007, 23:08
There is no such thing as a accident nowadays,there has to be someone to sue,never for the money though, its always just for the principal of the thing of course.
Unless its the Guvmints fault, then they just have some talking head appear and say those magic four words.
"Lessons will be learned"
:rolleyes:

Keef
13th Jan 2007, 00:49
My pet hate - the US verb-noun-verb-noun concoction.

In England,
a man of less than perfect morals comes to burgle your house.
You call him a burglar.
The activity is called burglary.

In the USA, it's different:
After he's been, the US press report that your house has been burglarized (not burgled).
The activity is, I assume, burglarization and the perpetrator a burglarizationer?

How far does this go?
burgle - burglar - burglarize - burglarization - burglarizationer - ?

Keef
13th Jan 2007, 00:57
'Twas suggested English should drop the French borrowings.

But ... French borrowed them from Latin (most French words come thence).
Sometimes, the word gets borrowed more than once (can't think of one now, but I remember there are such).

If you examine the borrowed words, you'll find that most words dealing with food and drink come from French, while most dealing with aggression and warfare come from German. The basics of life come from good old Anglo-Saxon.

Hence it's a pig (Anglo-Saxon) but pork (French)
A calf, but veal.
____

The BBC does still try to get it right - or at least, Charlotte Green does ;)

Tolsti
13th Jan 2007, 06:59
My pet hate - the US verb-noun-verb-noun concoction.
In England,
a man of less than perfect morals comes to burgle your house.
You call him a burglar.
The activity is called burglary.
In the USA, it's different:
After he's been, the US press report that your house has been burglarized (not burgled).
The activity is, I assume, burglarization and the perpetrator a burglarizationer?
How far does this go?
burgle - burglar - burglarize - burglarization - burglarizationer - ?


I'm burgled if I know!!! Okay, okay.. I was just leaving anyway.......

Oceanz
13th Jan 2007, 07:03
I wonder how long it will bebefore the great unwashed start saying "I'm going to the spec-savers"? :rolleyes:

Wouldn't that be iDoc? ;)

barit1
14th Jan 2007, 20:00
Here's a university that provides a useful function (http://www.lssu.edu/banished/discuss/?p=15) :)

Blacksheep
16th Jan 2007, 03:44
Wow! A university with a Department of Applied Pedantry!

That's really, really awesome. :}